How do you shake it off?

[Snoopy737]

Hi Everyone!

Long time since I've been in here, but fall and allmost Christmas, the perfect time for family troubles, right?

I'm 50, sis 52, mom 83.

Sis moved to another country about 700 km away, and is stressed out and haven't visited her mom or me for about 4 years now, bc she's too stressed out. Sis is undiagnosed, but I feel she's pretty bpd and maybe having an eating disorder. She can be pretty harsh and broke the contact with me for 3 years ago. (I miss her)

So I actually do a lot for my mom, so that she can stay in her house, after dad died. We've talked so many problems in our family since I was 20. Can't stand it no more. My mom gets older, and she seems to understand a little less for every year that goes bye. So I don't need advice on how to solve our 1000 problems. I gave up many years ago.

Actual problem right now: Christmas visit at my cousin. We really don't talk very well and haven't done anything together the last 20 years, can't really talk to his wife, but my mom sticks to these dinners like glue, I guess it's bc my cousin have 2 great children now, and sis and I don't have children. (I still have the hope, though it's getting late now)

I would give the Christmas visit a chance, my mom was REALLY HAPPY. But I felt really bad as we closed in on the date. I actually got depressed all the time, got anxiety attacks and cried almost an hour.

Phoned a help line, they told me to just say it like it was to my mom and my cousin. My mom got absolutely furious, I've only heard her like that 2 or 3 times in my life. And bc I've had a period with anxiety and depression (but reached out and got medicine and help/counseling), my mom almost threatned me, that if I don't go to that dinner, I would NEVER get better with my anxiety and depression, and what would I do, when she died, and she couldn't relate to me missing my dad and aunt who I could talk to, and she just asked me what I would do, when she died! (She knows I really love her very much)

I was really surprised, and didn't eat it, but told her all the things I've been doing since I came out of therapy (anxiety/depression) I'm working in a internship, I've begun swimming, im running with a friend, and I've just begun in the local church choir (locked down bc of covid, though). I've also been dating, worked the whole summer in my mom's garden, change to a healthy diet, working out, drawing digitally, reviewing books, playing the E guitar and a lot of other stuff.

So it was kind of Really Far Out, the accusations I received.

I phoned my cousin afterwards. He isn't the empath, but he really tried to understand, and said that he and his wife just wanted me to do, what was best for me!

So when my mom freaks out like this, I've also learned to say that in a nice way a couple of days after in a phone conversation with her. And I did. Like "Mom, It actually made me really sad, the things you said about my anxiety and depression last time."

I almost didn't finish, before she dumped the biggest portion of critics on me, for all the times she thought that I'd made her sad and how much she had cried.  I didn't know about the crying, but when I visited her in the late summer, bringing dinner, homemade cake and a lot of other stuff just to have a good talk with her, she acted completely weird, she was mad on everybody and everything, I was critisized for helping her with songs for her choir, and I came and visited her too often (sometimes she say I don't visit often enough) and it kept on, and I told her, I would go again, but she insisted that we should talk about it. And I just said that I didn't recognize her at all. All the anger! She didn't have an answer for that. Maybe it was allergy, that irritated her, but I mean I have allegy too, but I don't complety take a dump on people bc of that. But that was the summer incident.

So now when I say she was a bit rough last time, she can only answer with a 10 times load of bad things back! It's so juvenile in my perspective, but I actually do recoqnize it from my sister, too. So there wasn't really any reason to discus how I felt anymore, bc she painted it all over, that I was soo bad to her. And really? Visiting your mom, bringing food and cakes and just wanna hangout. And then saying it out loud, when I'm met with a thunder cloud instead of my mom.

Yeah, I can on shake my head. It's so juvenile - but what do you call this phenomena when people can't respond properly to any critique, even when it's said in a really nice way, but they have to cluster bomb you with all kind of sh** they think you did to them?


And when you're as old as me. How do you move on from such a dump! The only thing I've learned is that I have to call and check on mom's mood, before I arrive next time (and fair enough), but I can only see the same pattern that I've felt as a kid, but could see clearly at that time. The pattern, that you could NEVER be angry or mad. The parents were the only ones who were allowed to be mad. And if you said anything, you could be absolutely sure, that you would get 10 times the critique in return as an answer.  It's almost like kids holding their hands for their ears shouting "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

1)    But yes, if you know the same feeling. Receiving a dump like this. How do you shake it off? I mean sometimes mom's really nice to me, but it's hard never to know when you're going to get a dump for things you didn't even do, and ofte from half a year to 12 years ago.

2)   I'm having Christmas - just one short evening with this mom, but should I do something with her before Christmas (she lives 50 km away -45 min)? I really don't now. It isn't a pleasant feeling, that someone you've just quarreled with, are going to visit you on Christmas Eve, when you don't know if they're Mr Hyde, or if they're the good, ol' friendly Dr. Jekyl Again. (he was the nice one in the story)


Oh yes, and almost the wost part. My bad mood and crying was bc I forgot to take my antidepressants for two days in a row! Never happened in all 3 years I've been taking them. And oc I didn't recognize it until the third day with crying. So I was actually really sick, and (got help from a nurse on the phone, psych ward), bc you can NEVER take a cold turkey with antidepressents. You'll get all bad things from hell. And I did. But retrospective, my old mom actually gave me this dump, and it was bc I was sick of missing SNRI. How can someone not say sorry about that? But she didn't! smh

Thaaaanks, you guys, and all best from P

[beatricex]

hi Snoopy737,

welcome back

What to do about your BPD'd mom dumping on you?  I think that was your first question.

This is a tough one, because we want to see them (at least I do), but we always wish it was more pleasant.  My BPD'd mom has a knack for taking me down a notch, if I'm happy.  I don't think she does this intentionally, but I've found over the years that if I show less enthusiasm, less emotion (ie happiness) and overall just see to care less in her presence, she has a better time of the interaction. 

sux for me because I can't share anything *good* in my life with her

I refrain a lot from showing happiness, but I also don't give her the dirt either.  Basically, she knows nothing about my life.

I was horribly enmeshed with her as a child, and part of the process of letting go of the mother I wished she was (I worked on this with a therapist for the better part of a decade), was letting go of Her. 

She's more of a stranger than my mother.  I would say she's married to my Dad, if that makes sense?

sorry you are going through this.  Reading your story reminded me of my "old days" and gosh, I just don't miss the drama.
For me, I just decided I wanted to take my life back.  It was surprisingly easy once I set my mind to it.  Like giving up smoking.  Ever done that?  You know it's bad for you, you know you just gotta do it (cold turkey).  I find reality TV is a good subsitute when I really miss some drama.   


 

b

[Methuen]

Hi Snoopy737,

This sounds like a really difficult  rough patch for you (probably an understatement).  

Sounds like self care is in order.  Do you need some time to look after yourself, and get feeling stronger, before spending time with your mom?  How does that sound?  My T always recognized when I needed a "break" from my mom.  A "break" always helped me.  Most of the time, a week or two gets me feeling healthy enough to be able to emotionally be able to "handle" her.  But there was a time I went for several months.  When that ended I was super low contact with mom.  Contact slowly built very slowly, as I and my amygdula recovered together.  There are people on this site who are permanently NC.  Everybody's situation is kind of different.

my mom almost threatned me, that if I don't go to that dinner, I would NEVER get better with my anxiety and depression, and what would I do, when she died

Oh man.  My mom has done that   in the past too.  For me, that's when I need a break from her.  A normal person's typical response to that tirade is likely to only escalate the situation.  I'm guessing you know about JADEing, and not to do it?

A break is needed to break the pattern of mom's abuse when it gets like that.  My mom is 84, and very very frail.  She lives independently.  I am an only child.  She is very needy.  So in that way, our situation sounds similar.  The pattern I have noticed, is that the more I do for her, the worse she treats me.  Can you relate to that?  The key for me is to be like Goldilocks: don't do too much, don't do too little, but do "just" enough.

A "break" can be helpful for everybody.  It gives the pwBPD time to "self soothe".  It also gives them time to figure out that they need us, and maybe they shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.  The "key" is they need to figure that out on their own. The only way they do that, is if we leave them alone for a while to self-regulate their own emotions.  We can never just come out and speak our truth about these kinds of episodes when we are emotional, or as you know, they will turn and flip it and tell us we are abusing them.

My other thought is "boundaries".  So as I mentioned, I have found a kind of equilibrium with my mom for now (until her next fall or stroke when she can't manage on her own).  But to get to this point, I told my mom the following: "Mom, sometimes you just need to be angry, and when you do, you take that anger out on me.  I don't deserve that.  The things you say to me are abusive and hurtful.  I will not accept that treatment any more.  When you do that, I am going to leave".  That brought on another torrent, so I picked up my shoes (didn't take the time to put them on), and walked out her front door.  After that episode, was when my break of about two months happened.  When I was feeling strong enough, I telephoned her one day and asked her if she wanted to have coffee at her favorite bistro.  We met in a public place (where I felt safe), and pretended like nothing had ever happened.  I have long ago figured out that grievances can never be resolved with communciation with a BPD.  But since I set that boundary with her, and then followed through on it, she hasn't been emotionally abusive again.  That was my experience.  Not sure if there's anything there that can help you.  There's a heck of a lot more to the story, including her statement that she was going to go see her laywer (a veiled threat to remove me from the Will).  I still act as POA for her banking, so I guess she never did see her lawyer.  She doesn't really have anyone other than me.  No other family.  Like you, I treat her extremely well (as does my H).

I should also say, that I believe I am also able to keep something of an equilibrium with my mom now, because I've learned a ton of new tools (new to me) from this website, and so I interact with her differently.  I acknowledge that the "normal" tools I had always used with her contributed to the relationship problems thanks to her high conflict personality.  Normal communication, and "talking it out" just don't work with her.  My relationship with her now is also much more shallow.  I believe that  a deep relationship with my BPD mom is probably threatening to her.  It was always when I spent more time with her that she treated me unacceptably.  Shallow is safer for both of us.  Weather, chores, current events and other neutral topics are safe.  Nothing personal.  She doesn't even know what I do in my new part-time job (I'm retired).  Since it's not about her, I don't think she'll ever ask about it anyway.

I probably wrote too much there, but the bottom line for me is...as long as we make ourselves available to our pwBPD to dump on...they will take us up on it, because they just HAVE to dump their horrible feelings on someone.  Better for my health if it's someone else. 

[Snoopy737]

Hi beatricex

Thank you SO much for you answer!

No, I don't think my mom does it intentionally either. Actually, I think it's because it's hard for her to control her feelings.

It's actually a good idea showing less enthusiasm, bc when I've made a lot of work in her garden and in her house, I think we're going to have a good time. But sometimes she sounds more annoyed, when I do a lot. So I guess I have to seek the balance you're mentioning works for you.

I've worked more than 3 decades now, on off, with my(?) problems about my parents behaviour. ;)

I think, as a child, my mom used that form for pressure on us kids, to get her will. So I think you're right, when she's angry, and feel a little urge to please her, just so that we can let her anger go away. But what I should really do, is letting her cool down, and focus on my own life, on my own interest istead. True.

I mean, when I see where I am now, I really feel the urge to take back my life, too. I never cared how many hours I spend on my angry parents acting like kids. Now, I'm more aware that, I maybe only have 2-3 hours a day to myself. Would I spend that time on running, playing my guitar and watching a funny movie, or would I spend it on my angry mom. It's peculiar that I was in doubt about that.

Cold turkey! Affirmative! Thanks for the hug, all best P

[Snoopy737]

Hi Methuen

Thank you so much for your kind respond! I means a lot to me.

JADE, I actually forgot all about it, since I was in here last time. I've read it up now, and I can say I'm completely guilty of JADE-ing with my mom. How could I forget that I shouldn't go into these circles?

I'll really take it in. Only saying my argument and feelings once. And only once.

Oh, your mom have done this, too? And yeah, all I feel is that I also wanna have a break, but I'm pressured about this stupid Christmas coming in 2 weeks, hehe. I've just recognized that we weren't allowed to be angry or mad, when I was a kid. So I guess they've raised me to please them, when they got angry, and right now I feel sick of that reality. I mean, I'm 50  - for Gods sake …

Actually, I haven't told either my mom or my sister about the really precious things to me, like girlfriends, bc I know they'll remember it and use it agaist me, one day they're in a really bad mood. I've actually never ever had a girlfriend with me at my parents home. I guess I was to ashamed to present her for my fathers conservative and narcissistic views on everything.

I can relate to the break. Especially bc I feel sick of myself, if I go please her efter she dumped a load on me. I still struggle about the: doing the just enough. Bc my mom's really glad in the beginning, when I do something for her. Actually too glad, praising it too much (doesn't feel good either), and I guess my logical brain thought that if I just did a whole lot, she would be really glad. But you're right. That's when she get's grumpy. So I have to go for the in between. Got it!

Way to go, the way you told you mom that and walked out, when she wouldn't accept it. Yes! And it's actually really pecualiar that I don't dare to do that. I has something to do with my mom's image outside the house. Everyone thinks she is such a sweeeet and pleasant old lady, wishing the best for everyone, but they haven't seen my mood in the bad mood she hides when she's out of the house.

Therefore it's a really good idea, that you took your mom out to a public place, bc my mom wouldn't make a scene at a public café, either. I guess she's afraid some of her friends would actually see her or something. But it's a peculiar behaviour, bc she's more concerned that the barista in the café thinks she a nice lady, but not much when I'm alone with her. Smh.

Yes, it helps me – a lot. Just that I'm not alone in world with a mother like that is a great relief. Thanks And I'm helping my mother with the banking as well, and I'm actually taking her calls always, if she suddenly have problems in the online-bank. I don't think my mother has anyone other me, either. She has a lot of superficial friends. But they don't help each other when one of them feels really bad. It's only small talk and a bit padding each other on the back-type of talk ;)

I would love her to have a friend, who could help her, when she's angry or down, bc it's hard to listen to, but I actually don't think she dares showing her true self to others than the closest family.

I should practise new tools in here as well as you. And I forgot all about NOT JADE-ing, which I've been doing a lot in my last conversation with my mom. So … Luckily, my sister has a higher conflict personality than my mom. Sister translate every sentence other people say into critics and signs that we don't love her – which we do oc. But at least my mom only has these traits in periods, not all the time. 'Talking out' with sister doesn't work AT ALL for me, either. My sis has her very own facts, that she rewrites in a negative way, every time she speaks up about them. It's hopeless. That's when I have the urge to record my mom or my sis, but I guess they would go completely bananas, if I did that, he he.

You didn't write too much. I liked it very much! Yeah, Shallow IS safer. At the moment, I'm at 'Should I send my sis a Christmascard” or not. That Shallow, he he ;)

And yes, I agree with your last line. I shouldn't just stand there being ready to take the dump. She just surprised me last week. But not again these next weeks coming. Nope!

Do you know the saying about ”You've got the friends you desserve?” I think there's something very true in that. If we stand ready to take the dump or if I'm to pleasing to tell her otherwise, I kind of desserve that treatment. I shouldn't make myself availble for that either.

But I tell you something. Before my dad died in 2016, I always thought he was the only problem in that relationship, bc he often yelled and was angry with us. But now when he's gone, I realize he also had to live with my mom's tantrums and passive agressive behaviour. And when I think clearly, I remember him saying ”Well, we can't do a lot about that, can we” to her, filling his teacup and wandered into the livingroom putting on a good spy movie. Actually, he was really good at leaving her in the kitchen with her anger and smashing the plates loudly together. And I guess she calmed down after a couple of hours, when he didn't react to it. Maybe I should take that up.

All best, and thanks again, P

[Snoopy737]

Sorry about all the grammar fails and typos, you guys. I'm from Denmark. Danish is my first language. ;)