Painful times

[Bluejay12]

Our adult daughter began exhibiting significant signs of BPD over a year ago.  Married to a narcissist.  Both decided to isolate their 3 yo from us and all our family.  We used to care for the child often and know she loved being with us.  Just tragic for us to get through our days.  She had her own room here and many toys.  She loved to laugh and sing with us.  They continue to cause us so much grief and harm by not letting us see our own grandchild.  Any helpful words would be appreciated as the holidays just make this more sad for us

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[missymoo]

I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA AND WALK IN YOUR SHOES EVERY DAY.
NO CONTACT, THREATS IF I REACH OUT, SHEER ANGER, VICIOUS IN EVERY WAY.
WE ARE FRIENDS WHO BELONG TO THE SAME CLUB.
AND IT IS HEARTBREAKING. XOXO

[Bluejay12]

This has been our first ray of hope in over a year to be connected to others who are going through the same thing.  We live in Minnesota and just haven’t found anything in the way of family support.  We’ve now read several books on this subject which has helped some.  Still missing our sweet granddaughter though

[Huat]

Hello Bluejay12 and welcome

There are no words that can fully describe the pain a grandparent feels when separated from their grandchildren.  Sadly those little innocents can be used as pawns in this game we are forced to enter into with their parents.  My husband I have lived through it.  I say "lived" becaue our only 2 grandchildren are now adults and it breaks our hearts to see the damage that has been done to them because of our daughter's quest to have them all to herself.  They have different fathers.  Neither one of them speaks to their respective father nor the rest of those families...they don't speak to us, their only living grandparents...nor do they like each other.  I shed a tear as I write that.

There are no magic buttons to be found that will change what is happening in your family.  Most of the work is going to have be done by you.   You are going to have to do your homework as you reflect back on the history you have shared with your daughter.  The "vicious circle" is, indeed a circle...same-o, same-o can happen within a relationship.  The script is never altered.  Something different needs to happen to bring about change.   Your daughter, at this point, is the one in control so she has no need to make changes.  That leaves you.  For starters it is learning how to respond...not react.

Joining in here can be a big step forward for you.  We all need to have our feelings validated...to know that we are being heard.  That comes about from posting, as your have done, then getting a response.

Over the years I have been in support groups and while I believe strongly in them, it can be agonizing to wait one's turn to speak and also discouraging to realize that your situation is not anything like it is for others in the group.  Here there is always someone, like missymoo...like me, who can really relate.

This is going to be a long and difficult journey for you, Bluejay12, especially as Christmas looms.   Of course, what with this pandemic, that is pretty well going to be the same for all around the world who celebrate the different joyous, religious holidays that come for them in December. 

Besides this daughter of yours who is making your lives miserable, do you have other family members  for support?

Once again...welcoming you!  Share as much or as little as you want...come back as much or as little as you want.   This is a caring, supportive community of people who help each other.

Huat

[HurtBrooklyn]

I'm so sorry for your pain. It is just agony - missing a beloved grandchild. It is the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. I wish I could give you advice - but the only thing I can think of is that all of your love for your grand-daughter meant a great deal to her and I think it still lives in her heart. And maybe this awful situation could very well be temporary.

My BPD daughter, who has been loving and sweet and then then abusive and threatening, has banished me and has not allowed me to see my six year-old grandson or even talk to him,  since pandemic began in early March. I was able to see him fairly often before that - of course, entirely at her whim.  I think perhaps, the pandemic could be making everyone (including those with BPD) feel everything much more intensely than usual. I hope for your sake and your grand daughter's sake that things ease up a bit when the worst of the pandemic is over.

[Bluejay12]

So as previously posted, our adult BPD daughter and narcissist husband abruptly withdrew our  3 yo granddaughter from our lives over a year ago.  Completely isolated from our entire family.  Caused unimaginable grief to us.  Now they are expecting second child, likely a premie, and have decided we can care for the 3 yo again.  We are highly suspicious of their objectives.  They have no remorse and lie and manipulate others to benefit themselves.  Again, painful for us because we adore our 3 yo granddaughter and love to have her spend time with us.  How can we protect ourselves from their heartless and manipulative behaviors? 

[Sancho]

Relating to loved ones with bpd and other personality disorders is a painful rollercoaster ride. When they are adults there is little we can do about their manipulating ways etc. Perhaps just enjoy the fact that your grandchild is back in your life?

[HurtBrooklyn]

To BlueJay 12.  I agree with Sancho.  Please enjoy your grandchild while you can. Your daughter sounds like she will have her hands full for a good amount of time so maybe you will be able to see you grandchild often. My own BPD daughter only reaches out to me when she needs something from me.  But I do see my grandson whenever she allows it. I just do not participate or react when she verbally attacks me, which since the Pandemic has been much worse. Good luck. I hope it goes well.

[HurtBrooklyn]

To reply to MissyMoo2 - you suggested speaking on the phone with me and other suffering grandparents. I don't know about the BPD Family rules and procedures about calling each other. Could use some advice on this.

[beatricex]

Years ago, I posted on the website Voicelessness and Emotional Survival messageboard.  I was a regular there for almost a decade.  Unfortunately, it is now closed to new members.  I did get very close to one person in particular, and we exchanged numbers (via Private Message).  We ended up talking on the phone nearly everyday, for over a year.  The topic?  Our narcissitc mothers (besides borderline, I believe my Mom is also narcisstic).

There is real value in having a 3D friend to share your grief with. 

If this is not possible on this forum maybe meeting up with some folks in a group setting might work.  One that I might suggest is NAMI, and in the U.S. anyway, they have chapters in nearly every state.

I am currently doing this, and I find it's helping me immensely.

b

[HurtBrooklyn]

Thank you, Beatricex. I really appreciate your advice.  I will use the Pvt Mail to reach out and speak to someone. Also, thanks for the tip on NAMI.  I've visited their NY chapter website and find it a bit bewildering. So many choices!  Also, some are free and some are not.May I ask which offering did you find the most helpful? Thanks a lot.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[beatricex]

I think this is the one that is equivalent, it's called Family Support Group
https://www.naminys.org/mental-health-programs/details/family-support-group/

[Atlmags]

I am very sorry for what you are going through, and I can also so relate. My daughter, at her whim, has withheld, or threatened to withhold, visitation with her children from me SOO many times and it is incredibly painful when that happens. I finally had enough. I researched state laws and found that I am well within my rights to take her to court to enforce grandparent visitation, esp when there has been regular visitation in the past. She keeps a meticulous 'grandkid calendar' which is shared with me, and I printed out all of the 'visits with grandma' dates as proof, if needed, to show the court that I have had, at minimum, weekly visits with both of them since birth. State laws vary, but here is a link if anyone is interested: www.verywellfamily.com/grandparent-visitation-rights-state-by-state-1695938

I know it sounds drastic, but because I no longer give two hoots about my relationship with my daughter, only with the grandkids, I had a family attorney write a letter threatening to take her to court if she refused visits, and so now, no matter how angry she is with me, she does not withhold the grandkids from me, as she is terrified of DFACS (she is on food stamps, Medicaid, and the cops have been to her house on more than one occasion). I might not win in court, but she does not want to take that chance so I've never had to call her bluff (I absolutely would, though). She is a single mom, and my guess is that in an intact and seemingly functional 2-parent household it might be more difficult, but this has worked for me.

[beatricex]

Atlmags,
Thanks for the link.  It is sad but good to know, we cannot sue for visitation in the state we live in, because my stepdaughter is married to her husband.  Also, her kids are 1 and 3, so it would be difficult to prove we had "regular visitation" before the estrangement.  We did see them often, but it's not like they remember us.

If her sister tries to withhold her children from us, however, we can sue her for visitation because she's divorced from the father of her kids.  Also, we had regular contact with them (every other weekend) as she went through TASC, after being arrested for possesion of drugs, and we were pretty much the only people she felt like hanging out with (all of her friends did drugs, but she couldn't as she was getting drug tested).  Also, those kids are much older, and know us well.  Very interesting, the difference between our two girls.

hmmm...I did not know any of this.  good stuff to know
b

[HurtBrooklyn]

Thanks, Beatricex:  I got the NAMI link.  Much appreciated.