Grandson put in danger by UBPD ex-romantic partner

[Angie59]

 
It has been some time since I have been on the boards.  Approximately 2 years ago our son and his UBPD broke off their relationship.  That meant our grandson was 3 years old and his half-sister 5 at the time. 

It has recently been brought to our son's attention that GS, 5 y/o now, has been sexually molested by half-sister and we are not aware how often this has happened or when it began.  What brought it to our son's attention was NOT his ex-UBPD partner telling him about any of the past experiences; it was only because it happened at her mother's house when the children were in a tent together and they were found with our GS with no pants on and half-sister fully dressed.  Without getting into details, this was not a situation of "normal exploration" with kids.  It involved things with his penis as well as his behind.

They were sharing 50/50 custody of our GS, but the night our son found out about it, he immediately told his UBPD-ex that our GS would stay with him and he would have to have time to think about all of this.  The UBPD was there to originally discuss kindergarten schedule and a new schedule she wanted to coordinate with our son so it would match the half-sister's father.  Then as a, "oh by the way, this happened at my mom's." 

Since then our son has questioned our GS about it and apparently it has happened before at his mother's house as well as in the tent - no way to know from him since he just turned 5, the number of times it occurred, but he did give explanations of going to his mom to tell her what half-sister did and half-sister received a spanking from their mother.  When speaking with GS, it was clear from the conversations now and before this that she is not the best supervision of her children.

She now has a DCFS case that is still open as of this date and they should only have a few weeks left before it is closed.  The state is Illinois and they have 60 days to conduct their investigation. 

After the incident in the tent, they began family counseling with both children.  Again, GS told his part of it and answered all questions.  Half-sister clammed up about it all.  I don't know if this was a trigger for her or what but over the past 3 weeks we have learned she had explosive outbursts of anger, has hit a number of the adults present, wielded weapons such as knives from the kitchen, broken objects to make them a weapon, used baseball bats to hit people, all while in this extreme agitated and angry state.  She had also told our GS that she was going to kill him numerous times.  They also found two knives in her bed she had hidden away.

Apparently she was sent to a hospital the day after this happened (don't know how many times it has happened).  Half-sister's dad had her the day we know of that this occurred and he Face-Timed uBPD to show how what shape their daughter was in and could she please come over and help him to try to control her somehow.  She had already threw water in his face and hit him as well as her grandmother's and aunt's faces.  Mother (uBPD) said no, she had her own medical conditions to worry about.  We now know she is pregnant! 

My son has had an Order of Protection against her for the past three weeks.  His lawyer told him that her (uBPD's) lawyer would like to see if they can settle out of court instead of going to the hearing, where her client will be up on the stand testifying as well as our son and other potential witnesses.  They want to settle out of court with a parenting plan.

No information has been coming from to half-sister's father nor my son regarding how she is doing, is she in the hospital, what is her prognosis, etc...  My son is scared to death that something will go haywire and his son will be around her again when she is still a threat to him. 

Does anyone have any comments, or ever heard of anything so horribly bizarre as all this.  Our family has been under such a great deal of stress it has been unbelievable!  Anything you can give, just opinions, questions, experiences, etc...would be of so much help right now.  I don't have too many people I can share this with. 

Thank you so much!

Angie59

[GaGrl]

Under the circumstances you describe, the only parenting arrangement I could imagine would be your son having full custody with uBPD mother having only supervised visitation with certain criteria to meet in future for non-supervised visitation.

Was the CPS investigation already in progress when the molestation occurred with your grandson, or is the molestation an incident to be added to an existing investigation?

[Angie59]

Hello GaGa Girl!

Thank you for your time in replying to my post.  The CPS investigation was filed because of the sexual molestation that occurred.  It was filed against uBPD for negligence.  This incident was brought to my son's attention during a conversation with her about a change in schedule and a kindergarten schedule, and she told him at the very end of the conversation about this incident being at her mom's house while under her mom's care.  She knew she had to tell him because her mom was going to call my son anyway to speak to him about it. 

I agree with you!  I am hoping my son will go with the very arrangement you said - supervised visits only and I will add absolutely no overnights!  I hope he will take my advice and not give in to anything else.  There was the idea floated around she could have visits with him as long as she had a signed verification from whoever would be watching half-sister to insure that she was not at the home while GS is here.  I would not trust that!  She has lied and withheld vital information for the past 7 years since he first met her.  How can you trust her now?

Right now there is an Order of Protection against uBPD that my son was able to obtain.  This Thursday the lawyers are supposed to me with uBPD and my son to hopefully come up with a parenting plan.  If she disagrees with what he wants, his lawyer said the Order of Protection would continue, so she would not see him at all.

We have know half-sister since she was 4-1/2 months and she felt like our grandchild for the 5 years they were together.  I am heartbroken for her that it has come to this - a 7 year old having to be on a psych ward.  She has intermittent violent outbursts and I truly believe this has a lot to do with her upbringing with her mom.  She has craved mom's attention and love all of these years and never got it.  The hospital also said her behaviors were of someone who has been sexually molested - thus where she got what she did to our GS.  I feel in the shape she is in (she also cut all of her hair off, along with use of the weapons and hitting), that this is going to be a long haul.  I don't believe she will get better in a matter of a month or so.  I have to figure out how to handle all the stress as it seems to be here for quite awhile. 

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Angie59,

I seem to remember a post a while back about the half sister's behavior and something about it being possible that she had been molested. I can't remember exactly what it was.

She certainly seems to be displaying symptoms of extreme trauma and I think it is highly likely she has been molested. By whom, I wonder?

What does CPS say about contact between mom and your GS?

I would absolutely recommend your son push for full custody with only supervised visitation for mom. Bonus if CPS can coordinate visits with an approved third party supervisor, such as at a child advocacy center.

I would hope your son and his lawyer are communicating with CPS to get information about how to proceed with protecting GS and what that means for contact between him and half sister.

[Methuen]

The only thing I can add to this conversation is to look into finding a specialized counsellor with training in working with children who have experienced sexual abuse.  I have worked with two who are very good at what they do.  Early intervention is key.

[Angie59]

Hello Redeemed! 

Thanks for your reply.  Yes, we have had suspicions about the half-sister in the past because from the age of approximately 2-1/2 years old going forward (they were together until half-sister was 5-1/2), her behavior was continuing to escalate. Extreme anger, hurting animals, as well as hurting people sometimes.  When I mentioned something about it to her mother it fell on deaf ears about getting her some help.  She actually laughed about it and said she won't even talk to us let alone a counselor.  Half-sister's grandparents were always in denial of her behavior and laughed it off.  Our GS was always the target of her behavior which broke our heart.  Hitting, punching, pushing him down when he was learning to walk, etc...  They just didn't know what to do with her other than her mother yelling at her, spanking her and putting her in her room.

In answer to your question about CFS, we live in Missouri so I'm not sure how it works anywhere else, but the report is still under investigation (should be done in 60 days which would be in a few weeks) and they cannot release any of their information until the report is completed, nor do they give, or at least to my son they haven't, given any information about keeping his son safe.  The reason the CFS report was made to begin with was because of the sexual molestation in the tent that I mentioned in a previous post.  That is what started the report.  Since then, half-sister's behavior escalated to violent outbursts and use of weapons, some of which she hid in her bed (knives), so who knows what she was thinking.  Then they took her to the hospital (by the way uBPD is now married to someone and is pregnant with another baby).  This information was then called in by my son to CFS to add to their report, which they said they would and took down all information.

So CFS will not release any information in the report or even discuss the report until it is completed.  It was filed on May 5 and is still open and ongoing. 

I hope I answered all of your questions and again, I appreciate your reply.  Please let me know if you have any further thoughts, questions, comments, etc...  Due to the nature of what has happened to our GS, I am not able, at my son's request, to openly share this with friends, etc... This is hard to keep all inside. 

[Angie59]

Dear Methuen,

Thank you so much for your response.  I have been thinking the very thing that you suggested.  I mentioned it once to my son and will mention it again.  I am glad that GS has chosen to answer questions about what happened to him and has not clammed up, as I believe that would make it worse.  Yes, early intervention is key!  I wholeheartedly agree with that! 

Thank you again for your input!

Angie59

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi Angie:
Sorry about the situation. I think your son needs to be tough on this and save his son and himself.

I vote for keeping all court procedures and going for the toughest outcome. Settling out of court will only delay what needs to be done and cause more harm to your grandson.

Your son needs full custody, and mom needs supervised visits only.  I'm assuming that your son isn't the father with the current pregnancy.  It's sad that she is pregnant again.

The half sister might share mom's genetics and have mental health issues.  Half sister's sexual experience is another matter  to deal with.  Something is going on.  Whether she has been molested, been watching porn, or has had her curiosity prompted, sounds like those things need to be investigated. 

Although something is radically wrong with step sister, some schools in various states are teaching children as young as the half sister about masturbation.

Mom isn't competent to have custody of your grandson now, or likely in the future.  A pregnancy & another child will only make her less competent to care for your grandson.

I say "full court press".  Full letter of the law & court proceedings.  This should help both your son and grandchild proceed with a more normal life.  The sooner this is handled, the less negative impact there will be for grandson. Hopefully your son can recognize this and NOT go soft on the ex.

[Angie59]

Hello Naughty Nibbler!

Thank you so much for your reply.  I agree 1000% with everything you had to say.  Our son was just over here yesterday for Father's Day along with GS.  Usually lots of fun, but there was definite tension in the air with all of this going on unfortunately.

I have suggested the very same thing you are mentioning.  He was going to go with something like give her 1-2 days of visiting time with verification that half-sister wasn't there.  I said in what form?  He said well, it would have to be a signed letter of verification that say her mom had her for the day or uBPD would have to text me and let me know where half-sister is.

When, in the name of God, will my son STOP trusting her?  She has lied to him by seeing other men, going on trips with other men, taking nude pictures which are on the Internet, and continues to withhold vital information regarding half-sister.  Other than herself, no one knows anything of half-sister's whereabouts (hospital? with mom?).  She has been keeping everyone in the dark about her daughter and this information needs to be communicated in order to know what to do with GS.  She just doesn't get it! 

We have a list of questions that we (my husband and I) may be asked to testify to on Thursday should they not reach an agreement on coparenting (which I hope they do not unless it is as you described).  Presently my son has an Order of Protection in place, which means she has not seen or spoke to her son in over a month.  This Order of Protection could be continued if they can't reach a deal.  Here are the questions the lawyer has presented to prepare my husband and I on what he would ask if we are in court Thursday, just to give you a picture of what is going on with the uBPD:

1.  Were you present for GS's interview with the DCFS agent?
2.  What did you witness GS tell the agent?
3.  Have you ever witnessed half-sister having behavioral issues, including harming GS physically or mentally?
4.  How were those photos accessed?  (In relation to her nude photos)
5.  Do you believe uBPD makes responsible parenting decisions?

These are all based upon what my son has told his lawyer and what he wants to bring out in court.  By the way, the child she is carrying now is not my son's.  She is married now and I'm assuming it is hers and his, but you never know with her!

What in the world will be happening with that child when it's born?  Who is going to keep him safe from half-sister?  I know that isn't my concern but it goes to her character and state of mind, just keep pumping out those babies!   

Sorry I went on so long.  I'm just really nervous right now.  I can't sleep well and when I am awake, this seems to be all I can think of! 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi again Angie:

Just be honest and forthcoming, if you are called to testify.  It would be in your grandson's best interest, if the most thorough mental health evaluation is ordered for the mom and sister.

My understanding is that there is a lesser mental health eval. that is less apt to recognize BPD. The more thorough (more lengthy and costly) eval. is more apt to catch signs of BPD.  With the half sister, she won't get a BPD diagnosis before 18 years of age, but could likely get some other diagnosis.

One situation to possibly pursue, is to make mom use a court appointed monitor to supervise visits with your grandson.  I believe she would have to pay for that. Best to keep a restraining order in place as long as possible and until mom can pass a proper & thorough mental evaluation. Pregnancy is likely to make the mom less stable.

It's tragic that some partners of those with BPD seem to think that they need to give their BPD partner a child, because they want one.  In some instances, a 2nd or 3rd child, when the BPD partner can't care for/properly parent the first. 

[Angie59]

Hello to you Naughty Nibbler!

I have done some homework today and called around until I found the correct department for supervised visits and what they entailed.  Apparently it was under Child Advocacy and a separate department within Child Advocacy takes care of nothing but supervised visits.  I didn't think to ask if there was a cost to it.  I know it is very stringent and something she will probably not agree too.  It is for one day a week only and only for one hour.  She and our GS will be behind a one-way mirror where they will be supervised and watched during the visit and it is also wired for sound, so they will be able to listen to what is begin said.  If at any time, she misses even one visit, she will have to go back to court. 

I find this the absolute safest way for our grandson.  By the way, half-sister will not be allowed on the premises whatsoever.

Here's the problem and please don't ask me to explain it because I do not understand it at all!  My son, who has always had a giant heart and so much empathy for people, would probably not want to go that stringent with her.  He feels his son needs to have some contact with her and would rather go with a couple of days a week with a written verification letter from whoever is watching half-sister stating that she is with that person.  Well...the problem is uBPD is a pathological liar and has been the whole time he has known her, and there are family members or friends whom I sure she is making herself out to be a victim at this point to all of them, who just might write that verification for her, only to return half-sister back to the house while our GS is there. 

As I have stated before, this child probably has been diagnosed with IED (intermittent explosive disorder) used weapons to hurt others and also hid weapons in her bed.  She has told our GS that she was going to kill him multiple times a month or so ago, prior to this all happening. 

Why would my son try to give her any leeway?  I have no idea!  I do not think he will ask for supervised visits only.  He is just way to easy on people and how he can be easy on her, again I have no idea!  Somehow it seemed he is still afraid of her, or has feelings for her?

Grandma over here is screaming, You have to fight for your child!  You are his only voice!"

Please understand, I am not saying he has done nothing at this point.  He has obtained the lawyer, a DCFS report has been filed against her for negligence, he has successfully kept her away from our grandson in all aspects by obtaining an Order of Protection, which has been in effect for over a month, so he has pulled out a lot of stops.  In the Order of Protection he had to explain why he felt it was necessary and he said many facts about her, her behavior showing why he felt this was necessary.

Now that a parenting plan has possibly come into play (her lawyer wants to settle out of court), it seems as if he is backing down somewhat, maybe because he will be having to deal with her one on one (with lawyers) present.  I just don't know what to do at this point.  I don't know the judicial system well at all so I don't even know what to expect this Thursday regarding if we go to the courtroom or not. 

I do totally agree with the evaluations on both mom and daughter, however, I know I have no control over that to have that done and I haven't heard at this point that being done on either of them.  That's the other thing.  She has been withholding all information from everyone about how half-sister is doing, or even where she is (as in hospitalized versus being with her)! 

Maybe I should change my screen name to "At Wits End," because that sure is how I feel right now!

Thank you for your reply.  Please feel free to write any time as I am searching for ideas and answers!

Angie59

[Methuen]

I know it is very stringent and something she will probably not agree too.  It is for one day a week only and only for one hour.  She and our GS will be behind a one-way mirror where they will be supervised and watched during the visit and it is also wired for sound, so they will be able to listen to what is begin said.  If at any time, she misses even one visit, she will have to go back to court.

 Why would she have a choice to agree?
 If child protection decides the child needs protecting and this is what they decide is best for the child, I can't see how she would have the choice to agree or disagree.  The plan sounds like a good one for the child.

The "parenting plan" is another alternative that would somehow be between the two adults and their lawyers?  If I'm understanding that right, it sounds like the first plan is the strictist and safest for the child.  Where I live, it's a laddering process for the parent requiring supervision, to earn back more rights of access to the child.  They have to prove they are reliable, responsible, and have really good supervised visits, by showing up on time, and have healthy interactions.  With your description of her behavior, she could be challenged to earn more frequent access, with less supervisioin.  I guess I don't understand why your son would pick a "parenting plan" option through the lawyers, instead of the supervised visits where he doesn't have to deal with the ex, and he knows the child is safe.  I think I'm not understanding the situation accurately or fully.

You seem to be fearful your son will go the route his ex wants (which is less strict)?  It sounds like there are emotional entanglements there with his ex, and I'm getting the idea you are afraid he may back down somewhat, rather than take the hardest line possible to protect his child.  Without the hardest line, she has wiggle room to manipulate people and gain access to the child.  I don't know if that summary is accurate to the actual situation.

Is it for sure that you get your say in court?  Will your voice be heard?  Or do you show up on court day, and "maybe" they call you?  Have you already had opportunity to voice your concerns into all this with child protection?  Or,  if not, can you also report your immediate concerns (that she will tell lies to get access to the child if the written verification letter format is used), and share this with child protection in formal way, if you haven't already done so?  How would this affect your son?  How would he respond if he found out?  Just a couple of thoughts.  Not saying they are good ones, or even helpful to your situation, since I am struggling to understand all the details, and confess I don't understand all the complexities and nuances.  This is really messy, chaotic, and must be so distressing for you.

Supervised visits with child advocacy just seems like the prudent way to go for the child. No wiggle room for her.

[Naughty Nibbler]

ANGIE:
My understanding of restraining orders is that they are initially granted for a short period of time, until a court date.  The court date was/is likely for the sole reason to review the reason for a more permanent restraining order and have the judge decide if there is sufficient reason for a more permanent restraining order (i.e. perhaps for a year).

If there isn't a court session, your son has decided to drop the restraining order and it will expire.  I suspect that even though there was a complaint made with CPS, that this court date is not related to that (only the restraining order). If you son should decide to go before the judge to discuss continuing a restraining order, the CPS complaint should be brought up by your son's lawyer.

If your son decides to do a parenting plan.  I think that is a separate issue and not something for the courts, if the restraining order is allowed to lapse. I don't believe he has to be in the same room with his ex, for a parenting plan (unless something is actually before the court).  Actually, I believe those type of things can take place between the lawyers and then each party signs an agreement.  

Why would my son try to give her any leeway?  I have no idea!

 I would guess he is still hung up on her.  I've read many accounts here where some very horrible things happen & a current partner or ex will still cater to the person with BPD and ignore serious issues.  Even to the determent of a child.

Some people are addicted to the idealization that occurred in the past.  They interpret it as no one has ever loved them like that person with BPD.  It can be like an addiction.  The idealization isn't really love, but it takes a lot to convince the addicted person otherwise.  The common comment is generally that the disordered person is the most wonderful person in the world and no one has ever loved them as much.  They are perfect, except when they try to stab you, hit you, verbally abuse you, control you and are insanely jealous, etc.

[Angie59]

Good morning Naughty Nibbler!   

First let me say how much I appreciate your interest by your replies.  It means a lot to me.

So my son received a call from his lawyer last night because my son was still confused about how things were going to go.  Of course this is second nature to the lawyer, so he seemed to get somewhat frustrated saying that they had gone over this all before.  Fortunately my son spoke up and said, this may all be very clear and routine to you, but this is the first time I've ever been in a courtroom!  The lawyer apologized and explained how it will work.

He said that when they first arrive at the courthouse, my son, his ex-uBPD, her lawyer and himself will go into an office and begin trying to agree on a parenting plan.  I have already voiced my opinion (quite loudly) to my son that she should only be allowed supervised visits.  Period!  I was upset yesterday because when we visited with his live-in girlfriend, she had said they talked about two days of visitation, one during the week and another on a weekend day of 12 hours each day!  I don't want to get into it with her and decided I would not comment too much and just talk to my son.

The girlfriend has no children, has never been married, and her time clock is ticking in regarding to having children.  She walked into this relationship with my son during the pandemic where my son and the ex-uBPD had 50/50 custody, so has been use to 3-4 days per weeks without GS around and have time to themselves.  My personal opinion on her ridiculous suggestion of time with uBPD is that she is wanting more time with my son by themselves just as she had in the beginning and she is now finding that his son is around all the time now due to the recent circumstances.  Well, sorry honey.  The child comes first!  I realize it is more than she bargained for - much more, but you either make a commitment to your partner to stay and see him through it all the while keeping the child safe, or you decide to head on down the road realizing this is too much for you.  I really do like her quite a bit, but these types of things do come up seemingly from out of the blue where they are really, really stupid ideas!

Sorry, went off track.  The lawyer explained the way it works here (in Missouri) is that a parenting plan is first attempted to be made.  If the plan is agreed upon by both parents, then fine.  It is signed, notarized and filed with the court.  If there is no agreement reached, the lawyer will go directly to the judge and ask for an extension of the Order of Protection.  The lawyer reassured my son that things were looking good for him and he explained that he knew everyone in the courts there as he has been doing this for 30 years.  The judge is actually a friend of his.  So he does not believe there will be any problem regarding extending the Order of Protection.  My son then asked what if she contests it?  (meaning the uBPD).  He said that would make her look very shady and it would not fly, so do not worry about it.

Seems pretty simple huh?  He seems to have a lot of faith in the case.  Now is my son going to ask right away for supervised visits?  I certainly hope so, but he may still come out of it with an agreement that allows time with her.  He told me that he was asking him yesterday when he was going to see Mommy again.  I realize GS may be wondering what is going on, and maybe even misses her.  He is only 5 and doesn't see and know what we do about her.  However, again, his safety must come first.

I realize I don't have any control whatsoever what comes from this meeting of parenting.  I do see it affecting mine and my son's relationship if he allows too much time to her.  She just simply cannot be trusted, and she has shown that to him repeatedly. 

Feeling helpless, afraid to feel hopeful!

Angie59

[Mommydoc]

So sorry you are going through this.  It is important  that CPS is involved.  As a pediatrician, unfortunately, I have witnessed many cases like this.  I believe CPS will try to do what is best for the children. At this point, what they decide will be what happens and I doubt a private negotiated agreement could supersede any decision they make.  As mentioned, your most important role, if you are asked to testify, is to provide accurate insight into the risks the mother might pose and to offer additional support to your son as he navigates this very challenging situation. CPS will view grandparent support as a huge positive. 

The half sister has likely been abused and is  just as much a victim as your GS.  I understand that your concerns appropriately  lie with your GS. CPS can figure out her needs. 

I am glad you are able to share your concerns here. It must be very difficult to hold so much in.   You can also provide that space for your son, as he is facing a lot.  Even when you disagree with his approach, try to listen and be supportive, as he needs to feel you are 150% in his camp.

 It is natural for your GS to miss his mom and be confused.  Refrain from any criticism or judgement of his mother, as hard as this might be.  Children, his age, often feel guilt that their disclosure, caused the family split, and can suffer greatly. The more you can create normalcy and fun for him the better.   He might  benefit from counseling from a trained pediatric therapist, if not now, in the future. 

This may have been going on a while, and as hard as it is, it is good that it has surfaced, because now it can be addressed. These things can drag on for a long time, but I believe there is tremendous cause for hope, as you, your son and others are aware and can advocate for him.  Your son and GS are lucky to have you.  I am glad you have this space

[Angie59]

Hello Mommydoc!

Thank you for taking the time to write your reply to my situation.  It means a lot to me!

Tomorrow (Thursday 06/24) is when my son and his uBPD is supposed to try to come to an agreement on a parenting plan.  This is before the CPS has made its decision on the case.  If they come to some sort of agreement tomorrow, I'm wondering if the CPS makes a decision where it is "founded," in a short while (they have 60 days to complete the case and we are on day 60 today (I was counting just Monday-Fridays on the calendar).

Do you think whatever decision is made, if one is made, tomorrow, that CPS could come in and change that decision since it's been filed by the court? 

The state is Illinois.  I feel like I'm in a fog as I've never been through anything like this and don't understand the court system very well at all.

Thank you for your previous reply and any additional information you may be willing to give. 

Angie59

[Mommydoc]

CPS will probably support the parental agreement, as long as they believe it will assure the safety of the children.  I would doubt that they would override  a well intentioned agreement.   Your son should not agree to anything with ex, that he doesn’t feel is safe for his son, just for the sake of making an agreement.  I wish you all the best in the world. Looking forward to hearing what happens!

[Angie59]

Hello Mommydoc!

Well, things aren't going to well at this time.  Son's dad, brother and myself went to the courthouse for support as he requested.  We were not allowed to go into the hallways or wherever the lawyers and their clients would be talking - understandably so.  Son's GF was also there and she got through the line with my son.  When they told my son and I we could not go through after we pointed out who we were with (GF and son were at the end of the belt collecting their things, the officer asked who was the woman in purple.  We replied that it was his girlfriend.  Another security officer then told her that she could not go in with my son.  She became very angry over this and then stomped out ignoring us completely. We went back outside to let her know we were not the ones who kept her out, that we answered what the officer asked us as to who she was.  This turned into a big argument between her, myself and oldest son.  She even went as far as turning on her video recorder to get what we were "yelling" at her on video.

The whole day, even with a morning phone call involving her did not go well.  I won't get into the details, but I think it was such a tense day for all of us and maybe some of the anger was displayed by all of us. 

Apparently my son came to a parenting agreement that he has not even told us what it was.  Our GS was supposed to be with us today and he is not simply because my son said he did not want an argument with us to take place while he drops him off.  I'm a bit afraid that Fridays may have been given to the ex, as I know she has some visitation times with him.  Perhaps that's why he isn't saying because he gave away our Fridays, which I had previously asked him to please not do.  We have a limited amount of Fridays left to go before school starts. 

He is taking the side of his girlfriend of course, who sounds like she blew the whole thing out of proportion and has not even allowed my oldest son or I to give our side of the story.  He said he needs space and he needs to set boundaries.  So who knows how long before we hear from him and are able to see our grandson.  I guess that will be up to his girlfriend because he follows whatever she says to do.

Coming from us as this is our only grandchild, I feel very insulted by the way my son is acting.  It is not to brag and get credit by saying this, but our son has called us when he has had problems in the past at any hour of the day or night he wanted, because we always assured him we would always be there for him.  We have taken care of our GS at the drop of a hat when he was in a pinch.  We have babysat him regularly since before the age of 1.  We have done just about everything we were ever asked to do to be there for him and our GS.  Now we aren't even told what his schedule is.  I can tell you this much.  They are not supervised visits.  So everything is just up in the air right now, don't know if we will get to continue to see our GS, our son, his girlfriend or any combination thereof.  We have no idea when we will hear from him. 

I don't want to sound like poor, pitiful me but how can someone actually consider dumping their family, keep their son from seeing us, and keep us hanging on a string all over an incident that occurred in one very tense and anxious day?  It kind of seems to me that he knows his Dad, brother and I will always be there for him (unconditional love), and that he needs to work hard on the relationship with the GF because that is not unconditional love and he must take up for her at all costs in order to keep her. 

What do we do with our hurt and angry feelings about it all?

[Methuen]

I'm a bit afraid that Fridays may have been given to the ex, as I know she has some visitation times with him.  Perhaps that's why he isn't saying because he gave away our Fridays, which I had previously asked him to please not do.  We have a limited amount of Fridays left to go before school starts.

Maybe you are right, but maybe there is some other explanation for why he isn't saying right now.  As hard as it is, try not to get ahead of yourself with fearing the worst.  We have all done this, but it's a healthy mindfulness skill to learn to take things as they come, and not let these fears take up too must real estate in our head. Sometimes, it's just a lot of negative energy which really takes a toll on us.  I totally understand the worry and anxiety, as the safety of your grandson is driving these worries.  But in the end, does imagining a bad outcome before it happens, either help or change the outcome?

We replied that it was his girlfriend.  Another security officer then told her that she could not go in with my son.  She became very angry over this and then stomped out ignoring us completely. We went back outside to let her know we were not the ones who kept her out, that we answered what the officer asked us as to who she was.  This turned into a big argument between her, myself and oldest son.  She even went as far as turning on her video recorder to get what we were "yelling" at her on video.

I so understand the need to explain.  But with pwBPD, this is a trap.  Are you familiar with JADE?  So when you went outside to "explain", it was predictable she would have this response, because she is BPD.  Instead of "explaining" (which she would find invalidating) and which would escalate her emotions even more (which it did since it turned into argument), it would be better to let her self-soothe after storming out.  It's possible that without knowing it or intending it, by going and "explaining", the "flames got  fanned" and the fire actually got bigger.  

JADE: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.20

We have done just about everything we were ever asked to do to be there for him and our GS.  Now we aren't even told what his schedule is.  I can tell you this much.  They are not supervised visits.  So everything is just up in the air right now, don't know if we will get to continue to see our GS, our son, his girlfriend or any combination thereof.  We have no idea when we will hear from him.

This might be hard to hear, but the most important thing right now is that your son continues to feel you are in his court.  Not against him, and not angry with him.  I can appreciate the "hurt" you feel after all you have done for him.  But I do not believe he is hurting you on purpose.  He is probably also a victim of her emotional abuse.  She will have actively been saying things to him to divide you and him.  Don't let her succeed with that. Here is a link that explains this:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

What do we do with our hurt and angry feelings about it all?

Distress Tolerance Skills: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=331665.msg13020785

[I Am Redeemed]

Sounds like your son may have found a new BPD, or at least another one with emotional regulation issues.

If CPS decides that mom should not have unsupervised visits, their decision will stand. Juvenile courts generally follow whatever CPS recommends.

Your son probably gave into pressure from GF and possibly BPD ex.

If he has reached out and depended on you for support before, most likely he will again. I suspect that the new gf is making it harder for him right now.

Hugs to you, hang in there.

[Mommydoc]

This is such a difficult situation, with so many unknowns. Hopefully with the coming days you will gain clarity.  I encourage you not to make things up, and focus on what is in your scope of control at this moment.

This might be hard to hear, but the most important thing right now is that your son continues to feel you are in his court.  Not against him, and not angry with him.  I can appreciate the "hurt" you feel after all you have done for him.  But I do not believe he is hurting you on purpose.  He is probably also a victim of her emotional abuse.

I agree with Methuen, that your son needs you.  This has to be incredibly difficult time for him.  Help him be the best father he can be right now...letting go of your hurt and being his cheerleader in a difficult situation, is part of the unconditional love you have always provided. 

Thinking of you and sending hope for you and your family.

[Angie59]

Hello everyone!

I just wanted to give a big thank you for each and every one of you that have listened to me and replied with such concern and compassion.  Although my situation will probably remain for awhile, I respect and have been thinking of all of your responses.   

You are so greatly appreciated!   

Angie59