How to help partner engage in therapy

[Lamb75]

I have been married for 21 years and love my husband.   He recently began a relationship on the internet which became a crisis to bring us to marital counseling, which has been challenging.  I am now realizing that I have been caretaking for most of my life and need the situation to change.  My individual therapist brought up a book about BPD and after reading I am quite sure that my husband really needs individual help and support himself.  I just am at a loss for where to even start.  I fear that our marriage will end but can't continue living in this roller coaster with him 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pursuingJoy]

Lamb75 I'm glad you're here. You've been through so much. 

Marriage counseling with pwBPD can be challenging. Your individual therapy sessions are where you'll feel supported, grow and find clarity.

Has the marriage counselor suggested that your husband seek his own counseling? Sometimes they have a little more luck.

No one can force your H to seek his own healing and growth or professional help, but your own grief and healing will bring clarity and a measure of relief. Painful seasons like the one you're in always break open and lead to new seasons. You can do this. Many people here have walked the same road.

How'd your husband take the news about BPD? Does he seem sad about the pain he's caused you with the extramarital affair?

[Lamb75]

Thank you so much for your kind words.  The marriage counselor has mentioned individual counseling several times and he has said he doesn't think he has time.   He does not acknowledge any mental health issues only that he has anger issues.  Many of our sessions end up with blaming and criticism about me which the therapist has to redirect.   
Initially he seemed to acknowledge the pain but now it's more of a, " get over it".  I have such a hard time trusting what he is doing and he views openly communicating with me as him being controlled.   I am trying to focus on self care but am struggling for sure.

[pursuingJoy]

I wanted my H to acknowledge my pain, too. After a while he got so tired of hearing it. I was sharing it again because he wasn't listening. I thought maybe he'd understand if I explained it differently.

He finally said something like, "It is what it is. What now?" It was a slap in the face but honestly, I needed it. Our conversations were circular.

We call it JADEing here - justify, argue, defend and explain. It doesn't usually work, especially in heightened conversations with pwBPD. Whether he understands or not, you can heal, and you can grow. Understanding and empathy would be nice for sure, but you can move ahead without it, and it doesn't mean doom for your relationship.

So at least he acknowledges anger issues. How did that conversation come about? How does his anger present itself? Admission of anything can be good. There's never been acceptance or recognition of BPD in my situation, but I've been successful in addressing the behaviors, and that's what I needed to begin with.

I think I poured on the information and my opinions too much, too fast. He couldn't take it in as quickly as I was pumping it out. I saw movement when I took a step back and let him process it. What do you think?

It's ok to be sad and overwhelmed. This. is. SO. HARD. This journey you're on is not for the faint of heart. Accept the big feelings and let them stay, but remember they're not a predictor of the future. Stay present, with what you know today. Take it one day at a time.

[Lamb75]

I am really struggling with how to proceed honestly.   He acknowledged the anger after yelling and calling me names during counseling.   Afterwards he apologized to the therapist but not to me.  Essentially,  I can barely ask him a question without him yelling in response.  When I question something like when are you coming home he goes off.  He will call my names and say threatening things.  He will say I've ruined his day because I questioned him.  So, now with the therapist we've arranged it that for the next week,  he's contacting me rather than me calling him.   
I feel like we want 2 different lives. I want one with stability and a supportive partner and he wants minimal responsibility at home,  financially and with parenting.  Each time he does something that he wouldn't usually do he points it out but then he reverts to the usual behaviors the next day.   He says he loves me and wants to be married but can't do something basic like communicate when he's going to be late.  The one book that was suggested by my therapist I've just been crying through most of it.  It's hard to figure out what to actually do to take positive steps. 
My adult children have told me that they don't think he'll ever change and that I should just end things.  You're right,  it is very hard and I can usually be a positive person.  The rest of my life is quite successful,  I'm in a  professional position and have financial means to provide for myself.   I just can't get my head out of this trap thinking about him and our relationship.   I'm trying meditation and mindfulness.  Any thoughts around other ways to help?

[Cat Familiar]

Take a look at the Tools at the top of this page. Nothing is going to be resolved overnight, but by implementing these strategies, you can really turn down the heat quickly.

It takes a long time to change relationship dynamics that have calcified, but by committing to you own behavioral change, things can turn in a positive direction. And if they don’t change to your satisfaction, you’ll know that you do have options.

[pursuingJoy]

What threatening things does he say?

Agree with Cat. Nothing will change overnight. Mindfulness and meditation are a good start. Make sure to check out the tools. Pick one that stands out to you and let's talk. They work.

Feeling powerless is really normal, but we're not ever really powerless. I remember one particularly difficult night when I felt stuck with my H, until I realized I wasn't. I had the option to walk away at any moment. Every day, I was choosing to stay. One day, I chose to leave.

This concept stays with me now when I'm struggling. "I'm choosing this. I have the option to choose something else, and I trust that I'll know the right time to do so, if it comes to that."

You can't control your husband, but you can control how you respond. You control your boundaries, your expectations, and your emotions. You set the tone for what you'll allow.

If he's name calling, an appropriate boundary would be, "Please don't call me that. If you continue, I'll need to take a break and continue this conversation later." He will likely do it again, because pwBPD push boundaries like it's their job. Follow through with your boundary, and state "I need to leave the room. I'll come back in about 30 minutes (or whatever time you need) and I'll be happy to continue the conversation then." Then come back after the time frame you gave.

What do you think?
 

[Lamb75]

I did take a look at the tools.  I am really trying to work on establishing boundaries and being assertive.  I think I can work on ending a conversation by telling him we will discuss it later if he starts name calling, or blaming.  It just feels like we're talking circularly every time I try to have a productive conversation from him taking on responsibility at home to communicating what he is doing.   He is very self focused and will say he forgets about expectations that we have discussed in therapy.  He will avoid having any conversation that involves anything that he views negatively.  He opened a business about 2 years ago and it is going deeper into debt.   I am covering all the household expenses.  I have not even brought up finances since he's been in such a negative place due to the business but doesn't verbalize it.  It is challenging to do things for myself that I'd like, a vacation,  a pedicure! 
He had been escalated last week when I told him on the phone that I had enough of his going to his mother's ( his escape and person who enables him to have  no responsibilities in life. Still does laundry for him,  showers there etc. ) after working late.  I responded with an ultimatum which I then realized was a mistake.   He ended up yelling, calling names and came home.  I had then tried to address it appropriately but the damage was done.   I asked if he could just go to his mother's at that time to avoid a major conflict( we have an 11 year old at home).  At that time he threatened to call CPS to make claims about our home being messy and call the police.   He justified it saying I told him to get out of his home.  He knows police involvement or CPS can affect my employment.  I was able to walk away afterwards and just went to bed so we didn't have any further issues that night.   Now,  it is still unresolved.  I feel so frustrated with all the unresolved issues or promises of change that doesn't occur. 
I am trying to write down ways to respond from the tools to look at before he comes home or we have a conversation. 

[pursuingJoy]

 
I am trying to write down ways to respond from the tools to look at before he comes home or we have a conversation.  

He threatened you because he felt threatened himself. Big hug to you. I know you're going through a lot.

I hope it's ok to make a few practical suggestions, things you can work on in the immediate that have nothing to do with you H.

You're carrying a heavy weight and you need support. How much support do you have around you? Family? Friends? Support groups? Individual therapy? Of course we're here, but I've found that the more support I build around me, the more successful I am in carrying the weight.

You also need to set the burden aside sometime. Get the pedicure. Take the vacation. Many times we get smaller or take less to accommodate for all the space the other person is taking. It doesn't work. Take care of yourself.

I was able to walk away afterwards and just went to bed so we didn't have any further issues that night.

This is good - sounds like you knew you'd reached your limit and you stepped away, de-escalated. The tools aren't a magic wand but used over time, they're really effective.

Is he at his mom's? What do you expect him to say when he comes home?

What are things you would have said/done differently if you could rewind?

[Lamb75]

I have an individual therapist who I have started to meet with weekly.  Essentially,  at this time, she is supporting me to focus on self care.  She has stressed that I cannot change him and I can make changes and express what I need.   She has told me that either my H will accommodate to my changes or I will know that I have to be done with the relationship.  I have a few friends that I'm talking to and my adult children which has been very complicated.   My oldest daughter is a clinical social worker and feels that I need to leave him because he won't change and has emotionally beaten me down for years.   

I am trying to think about what I want and need in my life as for many years I have focused trying to keep and make him happy which has never worked and has been exhausting.  I set a goal this week to reach out to friends and did to 2 of them.  I am thinking that I will pick one thing a week to do just for me.     

He is staying home but goes to his mother's very often.   By going to his mother's he also avoids home responsibility. 

If I had to redo the conversation that night I think I would have used a when statement.  Like when you tell me that you're going to your mother's after work making you late, I feel unimportant.  I need you to prioritize time for us as a family.  I guess I'm unsure where to go with it after that.   I feel like I have reasonable expectations and he doesn't see them that way.  He essentially looks to come and go as he wants,  with no set expectations.   I get our son to and from school, activities and home at night, then dinner,  bed, etc.  In talking with my supports,  my expectations are realistic.   He will flip them on me to say that I'm being controlling and crazy.  I realize now that those are the times where I need to step away rather than try to logically reason with him that I am not crazy.   

[pursuingJoy]

I have a few friends that I'm talking to and my adult children which has been very complicated.   My oldest daughter is a clinical social worker and feels that I need to leave him because he won't change and has emotionally beaten me down for years.   

I love that you're talking to people. I might be inclined to be more cautious what I share with kids. Sharing marital challenges with family has always created more challenges for me. The listener takes on my hurt, anger and frustration, they develop their own, and then we're dealing with triangulation and hurt feelings between the two parties that are challenging to repair. Talking to therapists and friends who have a little less investment is usually more helpful.

I set a goal this week to reach out to friends and did to 2 of them.  I am thinking that I will pick one thing a week to do just for me.     

Love it.

He is staying home but goes to his mother's very often.   By going to his mother's he also avoids home responsibility. 

Like when you tell me that you're going to your mother's after work making you late, I feel unimportant.  I need you to prioritize time for us as a family. 

This is a great way to start the conversation. I might get specific with what it looks like to prioritize. So instead of, "I need you to prioritize time for us as a family," what do you think about, "Making every Friday our family night to spend together would make me feel so much better." Or whatever might work for you. Be specific and know that it's a start.

I realize now that those are the times where I need to step away rather than try to logically reason with him that I am not crazy.   

You are wise to step away. Part of the challenge is that they genuinely don't see the world the way we do. Reasoning won't help. Setting specific expectations can.

[Lamb75]

Thank you for the suggestions and support.  Having a rough day today after marital counseling.   I discussed where I am at in regards to shared responsibilities and expectations in the marriage and mentioned that at times I am fearful to say what I want. He became very angry said it was a joke and then walked out muttering how this is why he can only count on his parents and this is a repeat pattern of mine.   He blamed me for not being able to have fun with our kids( not sure why).    Then he went to take a smoke break during the session.   I spoke with the therapist for that time and explained that I felt that he needed individual support( she had already mentioned it and tried to talk through his relationship with his parents a bit,  during which he painted a very pretty picture and wasn't really forthcoming).  She tried to refocus him when he returned  about why he was feeling this way.  He did not give an answer. He just went into a circular conversation about me saying that I lie and play the victim and that he's made out to be an animal.  She validated what he was feeling and asked him what could make the conversations better for him.  He couldn't really give an answer except to say that when I ask where he is or what he's been doing it seems to trigger him.   
The therapist did clarify that she did not hear me say anything about being a victim but asking him to be more involved in family life and responsibilities.  He responded that he was not stupid and I know how to talk for my job so I just say it with different words.  It all felt so unproductive. Then at the end we then are not speaking.  The only resolution was that when I start conversations I won't begin with where have you been, what are you doing,  etc.   We are scheduled to go on a vacation next week. I am trying to use the tools and not respond to him in his emotional times.  I've been saying that I'm sorry to hear what he's dealing with at work, etc. without offering solutions.  But I'm also feeling like I'm still getting walked over in regards to boundaries.   If I don't ask anything of him, most of the time he can keep it together.  He may make comments about his life being so bad,  he will say it's my fault as well.   As soon as there is any expectation I get more nasty comments and blaming.  Just feeling super frustrated again!

[pursuingJoy]

Lamb75 I'm sorry. Some sessions can be so frustrating. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

He likely hears 'where have you been' as an accusation. He has a very poor sense of self. It's shaky, just hanging on by a thread. When you share your sadness he feels your sadness and shame on top of all he carries, and he can't handle any more so he walks away. I'm not saying it's right or a healthy response. He is where he is. It's not about you. Sometimes it can help do demystify their strange and hurtful behavior.

It won't help to explain your feelings to him. Especially when he's upset, he won't be able to offer the empathy you need.

What boundaries is he walking on?

[once removed]

there are a few extra hard parts to this:

1. when someone has an affair, repairing the damage, to trust, and to intimacy, is really hard. a large percentage of people arent ultimately willing to do it. even for those who are, its hard...you tend to want to shortcut your way through gaining back trust.

2. so repairing that requires not just willingness but full ownership. it requires knowing that even when you think youve been on your best behavior, the person you hurt may still struggle, and that is one consequence of what youve done.

3. you frankly love someone who is inherently limited in the capacity to do a lot of these things. to fully own and acknowledge what he did, to have the fortitude to try to repair it, to hear you when youre hurting over it the most. its a challenging thing for anyone, it will be more challenging for your loved one.

i dont mean to be doom and gloom about it, just to get the hardest parts out of the way. its a tough haul, and i dont know that your loved one is showing signs that hes in a space where he can repair that damage.

it does sound, while it may not necessarily look like it, and it may be up and down or fleeting, like the two of you are making some progress in therapy together. that things are combative, and that there isnt immediate resolution, is not, necessarily, the worst thing. the process is really best measured in something like baby steps.