Am I in the right place?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi everyone,

My first time here, found the place after reading "Stop walking on eggshells".

Short story: Married my wife 20 years ago, smart, beautiful woman, who I felt was out of my league at the time. We have two great daughters (13 and 6). Things have always felt off to me, she was treated for anxiety, depression, panic attacks and hypochondria during this time. We've done couples/relationship counselling a few times without success, she would withdraw after a session or two every time.

I would appreciate people's perspective here on my situation - am I right to suspect BPD? Is this how many normal marriages look like when they are in trouble? etc.

At this point, I've learnt to cope, support in limited capacity and getting on with my life without things getting to me. I've pretty much made the decision to leave her at some point, regardless of what is or isn't wrong. My only concern at this point are the kids and what is best for them - changing/continuing/divorcing.

For the past 3 days, I've started keeping a detailed journal, where I've started noting anything notably good or bad about her behaviour from an observer perspective, as biased as I would be. I'll post it here - so sorry for the long post, I will be very grateful to anyone that takes the time to read and respond.

L - my wife
M - 13 year old daughter
D - 6 year old daughter

DAY 1
23 nov start - 0838. I am wfh, M is at school all day, D is at home

0840 - complained of not feeling well a few times
0842 - asked if we can play tennis today. I organised a time and booked the court
0845 - complained of nausea and wanting to sleep
0848 - complained of brain fog
0855 - complained of not feeling well, sleepy, thirst
0857 - complained of a student arriving too early (3 min)
1027 - complains of headache and needing to get a brain scan
1029 - complains of being tired
1124 - headache, I probably have a tumour
1128 - tries to persuade me to not go to work this week
1145 - asked me if I can go to the shops with her later
1150 - gave me a vitamin D
1156 - complained of not being able to see properly and having a tumour
1327 - asked if it is ok that she didn't go outside with D
1330 - repeatedly asked me if I can go to the shops with her. No, I have work meetings
1332 - pointedly asked if I am playing tennis with anyone else, instead of shopping with her. No
1400 - asked if D looks too pale
1406 - asked to play tennis tomorrow. I moved work meeting to accommodate
1411 - complains of pins and needles
1412 - upset at me briefly for being late to tennis, even though she was the one being late and then asked me to book the court for tomorrow first
1520 - brought me a snack
1525 - asked if everything will be all right
1527 - interrupted my work meeting to ask if she might stop breething
1940 - asked me how my day was
2000 - shouting session with M. M wanted to go to school between tennis sessions for an exam and hand in her homework. Liza did not want to do so much driving that day
2017 - screamed at D for not finishing her dinner
2035 - sworn and screamed at D for being afraid of a ghost in dark room
2152 - complained of probably having pancreatic cancer
2153 - kissed me, asked me to make tea and come to bed with her
2215 - complains of having cancer

Overall, the best day in a long while. She stayed calm all day and I think stopped herself from having an outburst a few times

DAY 2
24 nov start - 0840. I am wfh. L is driving M to an tennis session in the morning and evening. D is at home missing school again. I am getting a vaccine today, so it will be a PLEASE READ show

0840 - walked in to an argument with M over what she should wear on school trip (too cold)
0845 - asked me repeatedly to re arrange work so that I can accompany her to tennis. I cannot.
0848 - high strung conversation over when tennis court is booked and why I am not checking quickly enough (computer starting up)
0853 - complains of not seeing properly
0904 - read me a joke from the internet
0920 - complains of eye not working
1145 - called from the car complaining of difficulty breathing. I told her to stop saying that in front of the kids. She kept going for about 10 minutes
1205 - L called to ask where i am, told her that I just got my second vaccine. She blew up saying that she can no longer trust me and will divorce me, kids heard it. I eventually said that my uber is here and I have to go
1230 - got back home. M told me that D has been upset and terrified. First when mom said that she cannot breathe,  then when she said dad is going to die
1410 - told me that she can now see that I don't think of others and always act for myself. The vaccine does not concern me, but the whole family, if I die. Told me that I don't know anything about it and haven't read anything that she has been sending me. I said I have a different opinion and left the room
1418 - woke me up to what I can only describe as a tantrum of a 5 year old over whether we should go play tennis, changing her mind several times. She was asleep and slept past the scheduled time to begin with
1420 - taking it out on M, who didn't practice the piano, while she was asleep
1425 - said I can not go to tennis if I go with her to M tennis instead, asked time after time, saying that she has hip pain and will stop breathing in the car. In front of D
1430 - annoyed at me for getting too many balls out for tennis and taking too long
1505 - worried about her heart stopping
1507 - said that she cannot forgive me for what I have done
1535 - what should I do if my heart stops in the car
1537 - I will kiss you now, but only so that the kids can see. Which arm did you get the vaccine in? "Jokingly" punches me in the other arm
1800 - D was asking me questions, whether I am going to die, mum going to die, do vaccines kill people.
2108 - she came back home. No hello. Instead - since you've done the vaccine, can you at least stay home and not go to work tomorrow. No? Fine, don't ever ask me for anything either.
2154 - blew up at M from another room, seemingly for no reason. Stop being on the phone, eat quicker, go to bed, take a shower, you lie to me, etc
2205 - still going, she is now brushing her teeth too slowly

DAY 3
24 nov start - 0710. I am going to work. M is leaving for camp. D should be going to school if L takes her there

0710 - 5 minutes of her trying to get me to stay at home. Something might happen to her, so I should be around just in case. No.
Can you at least take D to school then? No, I will then be an hour late for work.
0716 - they say you should stay home after the vaccine, you could have a heart attack
0726 - you've risked everyone by getting a vaccine
0728 - can you stay home x 20. I am really sick. Go to the hospital then. I can't, D is here. OK, I will stay home with D if you go to the hospital. No
0730 - experts say you should not get a vaccine during the pandemic. Why the PLEASE READ did you do it
0755 - don't go to work. I can't take D to school or go shopping. I feel terrible, don't go, you never do anything for me.
There's another covid case at school, maybe we should keep her home. That's probably a good idea, keep her home. I cannot stay with her all day, do you know how difficult that is for me.
I ended up just silently leaving the house
0810 - phone call.
- What should I do with D, why do you always make me make a decision.
- Because you told me you cannot cope with her  home, I cannot make that decision for you
- you did the vaccine, so now if you get covid, you'll put everyone at risk, you don't care for any of us
- if you want my opinion, take her to school. She had covid recently, she is unlikely to get it again.
- fine, bye


Thank you kind strangers!

[SearchingAnswers]

Hi everyone,

My first time here, found the place after reading "Stop walking on eggshells".

Short story: Married my wife 20 years ago, smart, beautiful woman, who I felt was out of my league at the time. We have two great daughters (13 and 6). Things have always felt off to me, she was treated for anxiety, depression, panic attacks and hypochondria during this time. We've done couples/relationship counselling a few times without success, she would withdraw after a session or two every time.

I would appreciate people's perspective here on my situation - am I right to suspect BPD? Is this how many normal marriages look like when they are in trouble? etc.

At this point, I've learnt to cope, support in limited capacity and getting on with my life without things getting to me. I've pretty much made the decision to leave her at some point, regardless of what is or isn't wrong. My only concern at this point are the kids and what is best for them - changing/continuing/divorcing.

For the past 3 days, I've started keeping a detailed journal, where I've started noting anything notably good or bad about her behaviour from an observer perspective, as biased as I would be. I'll post it here - so sorry for the long post, I will be very grateful to anyone that takes the time to read and respond.

L - my wife
M - 13 year old daughter
D - 6 year old daughter

DAY 1
23 nov start - 0838. I am wfh, M is at school all day, D is at home

0840 - complained of not feeling well a few times
0842 - asked if we can play tennis today. I organised a time and booked the court
0845 - complained of nausea and wanting to sleep
0848 - complained of brain fog
0855 - complained of not feeling well, sleepy, thirst
0857 - complained of a student arriving too early (3 min)
1027 - complains of headache and needing to get a brain scan
1029 - complains of being tired
1124 - headache, I probably have a tumour
1128 - tries to persuade me to not go to work this week
1145 - asked me if I can go to the shops with her later
1150 - gave me a vitamin D
1156 - complained of not being able to see properly and having a tumour
1327 - asked if it is ok that she didn't go outside with D
1330 - repeatedly asked me if I can go to the shops with her. No, I have work meetings
1332 - pointedly asked if I am playing tennis with anyone else, instead of shopping with her. No
1400 - asked if D looks too pale
1406 - asked to play tennis tomorrow. I moved work meeting to accommodate
1411 - complains of pins and needles
1412 - upset at me briefly for being late to tennis, even though she was the one being late and then asked me to book the court for tomorrow first
1520 - brought me a snack
1525 - asked if everything will be all right
1527 - interrupted my work meeting to ask if she might stop breething
1940 - asked me how my day was
2000 - shouting session with M. M wanted to go to school between tennis sessions for an exam and hand in her homework. Liza did not want to do so much driving that day
2017 - screamed at D for not finishing her dinner
2035 - sworn and screamed at D for being afraid of a ghost in dark room
2152 - complained of probably having pancreatic cancer
2153 - kissed me, asked me to make tea and come to bed with her
2215 - complains of having cancer

Overall, the best day in a long while. She stayed calm all day and I think stopped herself from having an outburst a few times

DAY 2
24 nov start - 0840. I am wfh. L is driving M to an tennis session in the morning and evening. D is at home missing school again. I am getting a vaccine today, so it will be a PLEASE READ show

0840 - walked in to an argument with M over what she should wear on school trip (too cold)
0845 - asked me repeatedly to re arrange work so that I can accompany her to tennis. I cannot.
0848 - high strung conversation over when tennis court is booked and why I am not checking quickly enough (computer starting up)
0853 - complains of not seeing properly
0904 - read me a joke from the internet
0920 - complains of eye not working
1145 - called from the car complaining of difficulty breathing. I told her to stop saying that in front of the kids. She kept going for about 10 minutes
1205 - L called to ask where i am, told her that I just got my second vaccine. She blew up saying that she can no longer trust me and will divorce me, kids heard it. I eventually said that my uber is here and I have to go
1230 - got back home. M told me that D has been upset and terrified. First when mom said that she cannot breathe,  then when she said dad is going to die
1410 - told me that she can now see that I don't think of others and always act for myself. The vaccine does not concern me, but the whole family, if I die. Told me that I don't know anything about it and haven't read anything that she has been sending me. I said I have a different opinion and left the room
1418 - woke me up to what I can only describe as a tantrum of a 5 year old over whether we should go play tennis, changing her mind several times. She was asleep and slept past the scheduled time to begin with
1420 - taking it out on M, who didn't practice the piano, while she was asleep
1425 - said I can not go to tennis if I go with her to M tennis instead, asked time after time, saying that she has hip pain and will stop breathing in the car. In front of D
1430 - annoyed at me for getting too many balls out for tennis and taking too long
1505 - worried about her heart stopping
1507 - said that she cannot forgive me for what I have done
1535 - what should I do if my heart stops in the car
1537 - I will kiss you now, but only so that the kids can see. Which arm did you get the vaccine in? "Jokingly" punches me in the other arm
1800 - D was asking me questions, whether I am going to die, mum going to die, do vaccines kill people.
2108 - she came back home. No hello. Instead - since you've done the vaccine, can you at least stay home and not go to work tomorrow. No? Fine, don't ever ask me for anything either.
2154 - blew up at M from another room, seemingly for no reason. Stop being on the phone, eat quicker, go to bed, take a shower, you lie to me, etc
2205 - still going, she is now brushing her teeth too slowly

DAY 3
24 nov start - 0710. I am going to work. M is leaving for camp. D should be going to school if L takes her there

0710 - 5 minutes of her trying to get me to stay at home. Something might happen to her, so I should be around just in case. No.
Can you at least take D to school then? No, I will then be an hour late for work.
0716 - they say you should stay home after the vaccine, you could have a heart attack
0726 - you've risked everyone by getting a vaccine
0728 - can you stay home x 20. I am really sick. Go to the hospital then. I can't, D is here. OK, I will stay home with D if you go to the hospital. No
0730 - experts say you should not get a vaccine during the pandemic. Why the PLEASE READ did you do it
0755 - don't go to work. I can't take D to school or go shopping. I feel terrible, don't go, you never do anything for me.
There's another covid case at school, maybe we should keep her home. That's probably a good idea, keep her home. I cannot stay with her all day, do you know how difficult that is for me.
I ended up just silently leaving the house
0810 - phone call.
- What should I do with D, why do you always make me make a decision.
- Because you told me you cannot cope with her  home, I cannot make that decision for you
- you did the vaccine, so now if you get covid, you'll put everyone at risk, you don't care for any of us
- if you want my opinion, take her to school. She had covid recently, she is unlikely to get it again.
- fine, bye


Thank you kind strangers!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Here are a couple of articles for you:  https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder

You are definitely dealing with a challenging partner. BPD can be comorbid with other disorders. Have you done any personal therapy? We know how difficult it is to be in a relationship with someone with a personality disorder and we recommend that partners, especially with minor children, seek therapy to support them through difficulties they encounter on a daily basis.

[SearchingAnswers]

Thanks for the response, Cat!

I've definitely not been doing well 10 years ago, but much better now, by doing lots of things that I am now reading about.

I am seeing a professional next week, my main questions around my kids and how to best navigate it. I'll see where it goes from there. In some ways, my best case scenario may be - hey, you are the one responsible for many of these problems and that's what all bad relationships looks like. Make yourself better and relationship will improve.

Reading the book and this forum strikes too close too home, many threads could me written by me word for word. There's a questionnaire in the book that states you are right to be worried if they score 12 and you should be very worried if they score 16+. I think my wife's score is 18.

However, she does not self harm, no addictions, no cheating and looks like a great mother to most people on the outside. There's been a few veiled suicide threats over the years to manipulate me and some minor physical violence that hasn't progressed over 20 years, so I'm only worried when it may be directed at kids.

I feel like she does an amazing job at controlling herself from crossing certain lines, but do often have a feeling that at some point in the future she may lose it and start to cross them. I can certainly same the myself and two daughters are on eggshells 100% of the time that she is around.

[babyducks]

welcome SearchingAnswers

I'm glad you found us.   

I am seeing a professional next week, my main questions around my kids and how to best navigate it.

This is a good step.   It will help.   Finding ways to communicate and validate a person with a mental illness (or the traits of one) is not easy or intuitive.   having immediate face to face support is very helpful.

However, she does not self harm, no addictions, no cheating and looks like a great mother to most people on the outside. There's been a few veiled suicide threats over the years to manipulate me and some minor physical violence that hasn't progressed over 20 years, so I'm only worried when it may be directed at kids.

BPD, like many mental illnesses, exists on a spectrum.   from the very mild to the extremely impaired.    stress can worsen the symptoms.   certainly, the world has been abnormally stressful in the last few years.   I would suggest that it is important to remember that no two pwBPD act completely alike in how the illness presents.   It is the unique events of each person’s life that make up the content of their fears and distorted thinking.    from what you posted your wife has some intense fears around things medical or health related.   was there something in her early family history that may have made her more sensitive to medical issues?

my Ex partner was diagnosed with Bipolar 1 and another illness most probably BPD but somewhere on the Cluster B spectrum.    She tended to self harm in non standard ways.   She didn't cut herself but would injury herself in other ways.    Often it would be a slip and fall.  She had no addictions.   Never cheated.     Was careful with money.    She did have the harmfully intense emotional swings that changed extremely rapidly.

if you read 'stop walking on eggshells' you might have picked up there are ways to lessen conflict.   Cat linked you to some of the tools that are suggested.    Have you had time to take a look?

'ducks

[SearchingAnswers]

Hi babyducks,

Thanks for response!

I have learnt how to not add fire to the conflict, walk away where possible. Calming and validating her has not worked for me - it has in a way that she is happy to be getting the attention, but, any sign of me engaging with her worries is a green light to keep going non-stop. Disengaging and being distant is the only thing I found so far that keeps me from reacting myself.

About a year ago, after hurling abuse at me over something trivial and calling me the abuser, I've said that I had enough and we are getting divorced. She didn't talk to me for a few days then begged to continue. I sense that she could tell that I was being very serious about that and since then, I think she really has tried to improve her behaviour towards me. Very small steps, but steps nevertheless. Unfortunately, I think she is now compensating by having a go at our 13 year old daughter a lot more often.

I now look at an option of continuing with the current abuse level, or giving my kids a 50% chance of living in a safe, calm environment, regularly seeing their grandparents, etc. I do not see a single good choice, which sucks.

Am I right in suspecting BPD here?

[Cat Familiar]

It seems like mothers with BPD are more likely to have conflict with their children as they individuate in adolescent and teen years. Becoming individuals in their own right seems to trigger BPD mothers.

On the Conflicted Board, you’ll often hear the quote, “I’d rather come from a broken home than live in one.” It’s indeed a difficult choice to determine what outcome would be best for your children.

[babyducks]

Hello SearchingAnswers

Am I right in suspecting BPD here?

Boy I wish there was a simple Yes or No answer I could give you here.   Things would be so much easier if we could say Absolutely Yes, or Positively No.

Many mental illnesses are comorbid with each other.   Often you will hear of depression and anxiety coexisting with each other.    Unlike...physical illness there is no blood test, xray or CT scan that proves mental illness.    Personality disorders are a very subjective diagnosis.   Even professionals hesitate to make personality disorders diagnoses.    Among the Cluster B disorders there is a lot of overlap in categories.    Symptoms of one disorder also appear in the others.   Broadly speaking Cluster B disorders show difficulties regulating emotions and behavior. behavior is dramatic, emotional, or erratic.    Cluster C disorders are anxious and avoidant.  behavior is dependent and obsessive compulsive.

BPD is very similar to several other illnesses.  C-PTSD for one.    Bipolar II is another.   Cat said your wife is challenging.   and I agree.    from your first post it does appear that she cycles rapidly through harmfully intense emotions.    you mentioned she was treated for hypochondria.    how did that happen and how did she respond to the idea of therapy?

I also want to mention that sometimes there can be good reasons to avoid using the term BPD.   Depending where you are located and the type of mental health help available to you there still might exist a stigma to the term.    Insurance companies tend to dislike BPD.    In some places professionals avoid taking BPD patients.    and the internet is rife with poor information, stereotypes and shaming of BPD.    often people who have been emotionally injured by a BPD relationship will spew vitriol under the guise of helping.

what is often recommended instead of focusing on a diagnosis is to focus on behaviors.  on the actions.    and to take an extended amount of time before reaching conclusions.   it takes time to unravel family dynamics.     insights come slowly.     nobody is born equipped to understand and cope with neuro divergent behavior.

how are things today?

'ducks