Feels impossible to break up

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hey,

I tried to break up with my wife about a week ago, I did not succeed although I kept saying i've made up my mind. She was devestated and started puking and at the same time did not take it seriously, she talked about me being impulsive and that you cant end a relationship just like that, although we have had a really rough year. I was left with the feeling that she can not cope on her own. I had to call in sick to work (the only place i can relax) for almost a week because of this instead of it finally being over. Even though she kept talking about me being her only one and never want anyone else I am past the point of wanting to continue this relationship. I stay because i don't know how to end it. Now my plan is to stick it out until january.

We have two small boys together and have been together 15 years. I've only recenty started to accept that she is not normal.

She calmly talks about me being an abuser, if i disagree she gets violent.

How do i get out without traumatizing her and the boys?

[15years]

Hey,

I tried to break up with my wife about a week ago, I did not succeed although I kept saying i've made up my mind. She was devestated and started puking and at the same time did not take it seriously, she talked about me being impulsive and that you cant end a relationship just like that, although we have had a really rough year. I was left with the feeling that she can not cope on her own. I had to call in sick to work (the only place i can relax) for almost a week because of this instead of it finally being over. Even though she kept talking about me being her only one and never want anyone else I am past the point of wanting to continue this relationship. I stay because i don't know how to end it. Now my plan is to stick it out until january.

We have two small boys together and have been together 15 years. I've only recenty started to accept that she is not normal.

She calmly talks about me being an abuser, if i disagree she gets violent.

How do i get out without traumatizing her and the boys?

[formflier]

I'm so sorry you are in this tough spot.  I think we can help you work through all these hard decisions.

After reading your post I feel I need to ask for more details about safety in your home and in your relationship.

What does it mean she "gets violent" if you don't agree with her?  Have police or other authorities ever been involved?

Best,

FF

[15years]

Thanks!

She hits, kicks, pinches, scratches, pulls my hair, spits me in the face and add to that verbal abuse. It has been going on since last spring when i confessed to having watched porn a few times during our 15 years long relationship. Honestly i think it was coming sooner or later, she had begun pushing me prior to that. I knew that porn was a dealbreaker for her abd i thought my lies was a key to what kept us from developing a stable relationship. Then i casually confessed to reading erotic stories online, thinking that it wouldn't be such a big deal, but i was wrong. I did not loose the idea that my lies played a big role in the relationship struggles so i confessed more, for example that I look at other women.

As for the break up, I think i have to let go of the idea that she has to accept my decision. Does anyone have that experience? That you have to let go of the longing for their acceptance.

[15years]

The Police have never been involved, that thought is absured to me, its so far from our identity and culture i guess. But i did threathen her with calling the cops yesterday.

[ForeverDad]

As for the break up, I think i have to let go of the idea that she has to accept my decision. Does anyone have that experience? That you have to let go of the longing for their acceptance.

So many movies display friendly breakups where ex-spouses remain friends.  When a dysfunctional relationship such as our sort is failing and ends, that's not our experience.  Think volcano, hurricane and tsunami.

Now that you have an idea of what you're dealing with — a person whose perceptions are based on abnormal, even violent, behaviors and extreme feelings rather than facts — you need to proceed cautiously if you're to avoid the unexpected traps that many of us faced.

Even before resorting to seeking intervention by police, if possible, get some legal advice ASAP in a few consultations with local family law attorneys.  This is high priority.  They can advise and warn on where you as a man and father stand in the local jurisdictions.  Lots of policies and procedures may surprise you.

For example, when I called the police when my then-spouse threatened my life, two cruisers responded.  Yet they almost carted me off (to jail?) but fortunately my preschooler who had been quietly sobbing in my arms shrieked and clung tighter to me when I tried to obey the officer who had told me to hand him off to his mother and "step away".  I was the one who called but, as my divorce lawyer later told me, it's usually the man who has to leave.  And frankly, I was totally unprepared if I would have been arrested that weekend, I had no lawyer to call.

While the peer support and time-tested strategies here are essential, so is getting legal advice from experienced local lawyers.

Accept that countering emotional outbursts and demands with logic and reasonableness seldom works for us.  On the other hand, setting boundaries for yourself will help over time.  (Our acting-out disordered spouses resist boundaries on themselves.) There may be extinction bursts where there are more demands and ultimatums that you retreat to prior acquiescence and passiveness.

I made posts recently that you should also read.  Here's excerpts:

Many here, myself included, experienced similar demands and rages.  In my case, as with many here, I had no choice but to realize the relationship was dysfunctional and increasingly unhealthy.  As it got worse and worse it reached the point where I realized I had to separate if I was to protect myself and protect my parenting.
more...

We here are Nice Guys and Nice Gals.  Great, right?  Well... being nice people in a bad situation can be a disadvantage since our nice inclinations such as a sense of fairness can set us up for surprise sabotage.

How so?  You probably want to be 'fair' and inform her in advance of filing for divorce.  Well, that can give her an opportunity to sabotage you - negatively...
more...

[GaGrl]

There is much that you can do, from a practical standpoint, to prepare for the initial separation in January...

Consult a lawyer, with a list of questions in hand. You can get no or low-cost 30-60 minute consultations with 3-4 lawyers to make a decision on the one best for divorcing a night conflict spouse.

Separate finances as best you can. Get a bank account and direct deposit that she cannot access. Examine all credit accounts and be clear on which are hers, yours, or joint. Avoid letting her have access to accounts that she can run up balances on.

Consider wearing or carrying a voice activated recorder or record interactions with your phone. Even if recording without her permission is not allowed in your state and can't be used in court, it can protect you from her false accusations.

Put careful thought into what you want to ask in terms of custody of your children. What is your state's default -- 50-50? Will you want more than that? Do the children need you to be primary caregiver? What support and resources do you have?

Does this help?

[Gdoodle]

I am in similar situation as you. I thought about leaving 6 years ago but I couldn’t pull the trigger. She decided to see a counselor and i thought things will get better but it never did. Things will be quiet for few weeks but than she will have episodes of rage and this cycle became part of my life but few weeks ago she threaten to call the police and lie to them. This was my final straw, all these years i stuck around and accepted her verbal/physical abuse and threats to hurt me and to take away my kids. I seeked legal advice because i did not want to lose my kids. Please seek legal advice and please listen to the people on this forum, i am listening to advices on this forum and also from my attorney, you do not want to get blind sided.

[15years]

I guess I could consult with a lawyer, I have experienced that when I take a step further it makes me really anxious at first, I feel like a betrayer, but later it wears off and I can look back and realize that it was a huge personal development. And it makes it harder to go back. But if I won't be able to leave, I have only made things worse with more secrets. Feels like I have to have secrets from here to keep sane.

It makes me really anxious to think about staying for many years to come, wasting my time and my childrens childhood even more, like many of you have said this is not a life. But there is always that doubt that makes me question if I'm overreacting, or if I'm delusional. She is very unique, beautiful, smart and funny and I do love her.

Maybe I'll seek legal advice, but the hardest part is how to actually break up. I guess it will have to be quick and i'll have to leave her alone with the kids even though she will be in chock and talk about suicide and not making it on her own. I know she will be fine a month later but those first few days and weeks frightens me. Maybe I'll tell her that I can help with the kids whenever she needs it?

I have even thought about taking the opportunity to leave in the middle of a fight, because then my anger and my courage to leave is bigger. But then there's the kids and I don't know what will happen when I calm down either.

It's so unnecessary to feel pity for her though because I know that she hates when people pity her, but I still do. Last week I pitied her and stayed and two days later she rages at me again. And this Thursday she attacks me almost more aggressively than before.

[15years]

I have some really great recordings of her raging at me so I guess that covers me a bit.

Interesting thing is she often apologize for her behavior but later she gets angry at me for not taking it like a man, I have after all abused her for 15 years and do deserve everything.

She doesn't seem to understand the walking on eggshells part though, she can't believe that I am frightened of her like that. She certainly isn't afraid of me like that but claims she has not been able to say no to sex. I guess it could feel like that to her and I understand that she wanted to be a perfect partner so I wouldn't leave her or cheat on her (including watching pornography). So she claims that I have raped her our whole relationship. Hard allegations to handle and makes me question myself a lot. I mean of course I have made bad decisions and have regrets, but not to the extent she's claiming.

[ForeverDad]

Things you can do yourself and do for yourself:

Later when you calm down... Yes, you will be stressed and distressed when she's ranting and raging.  But never ever do anything that can remotely be misconstrued or slanted to appear that you're aggressive.  A woman loses her cool, others may think no big deal, you lose your cool and oh boy your risks rise.

She claims she has not been able to say no to sex... Um, if she feels it's that bad, why is she still with you after some 15 years?  She could start a divorce, move out or whatever at the drop of a hat.  That's emotional blaming.

Likely she has her own vehicle or other means of transportation, right?  Likely too she has access to money, perhaps is even gainfully employed, right or could if she wished, right?  So if she really wanted to leave, all she would have to do is file a form in domestic/family court.

She calmly talks about me being an abuser, if i disagree she gets violent...  I hope she hasn't recorded you "confessing" to being an abuser.  Perhaps one way to avoid her building some sort of leverage over you, such as a recording, is to limit yourself to apologies for her "feeling" you are bad or whatever.  "I'm sorry you feel that way."  Actions or confessions of actions can have serious legal consequences, "feelings" not much at all.

I have pity for her... Yes, it's very sad that her mental state has her so stressed, distressed and acting-out.  But once her behaviors cross that red line into abuse, threats, cornering you, etc, then your sense of compassion needs an update.  You need to review your limits and Boundaries.  She is an adult.  When children acts up they get appropriate discipline.  Such training is expected of a parent and it's a part of growing up for children.  But an adult is expected to already know to behave within society's bounds, regardless whether out in public life or in private life.  Whatever else may be wrong with her, odds are no court or hospital staff will institutionalize or commit her.  (And likely she knows just how far she can push the limits in public, not to mention she probably desires to have a perfect public face.  Also, she probably expects you not to divulge all the terrible things she does in private behind closed doors and in other secluded scenarios.  ) Sure, she's misbehaving but most of our ex-spouses whether male or female are still out and about in society.
Seeking legal advice is smart, not creating "secrets".  You have a right to confidentiality and privacy in your life.  Just because you reside together or are married does not mean you can't investigate and make yourself aware of your options and legal standing.  This also means you do not have to ethically "confess" or "keep secret" you've consulted a few family law attorneys.  Perhaps at the same time you can also discuss what to put in a will.  See?  Multitask your appointments.  It's inexpensive or perhaps even free for initial consultations.  If you're concerned about her finding out, pay in cash and stress that they should never mail, email or call you in any manner that might jeopardize your confidentiality.

[GaGrl]

One tip to help manage your doubts and anxiety...

Be aware of the F-O--G that PS BPD can generate in their partners and loved ones. This stands for feelings of Fear, Obligation, Guilt. pwBPD are extremely adept at manipulation situations so that they get their needs met by playing on these feelings.

So when you have had a distressing interaction and are feeling anxious, ask yourself if you are responding to her out of Fear, out of Obligation, out of Guilt. It might help you clarify your own emotions and subsequent actions, while raising your awareness of her manipulative behaviors.

Sometimes the first step is just increasing awareness.

[15years]

I'm often reacting out of fear obligation or guilt. Even when she's happy I do this, like yesterday was a day without a single argument, I could see she had decided that and I know it won't last, but still I get anxious and think that it's unfair to think about divorce, especially since she can be really loving these calm days even though I'm kind of low.

Today I sense could be a much worse day, we just woke up and she started of by expressing her distressed feelings about a set of cups and plates she gave away to charity maybe last year, because I did not like them as they reminded me of something hurtful. I never forced her to get rid of them but I do understand why she did it, she wanted to be a good partner and do what she would like others to do for her. And I wouldn't do that for her if she didn't ask me so that makes me not as warm and empathetic as her.

I have thrown away or donated quite a lot of my things on her request though because of those same reasons.


Lately I get anxious when we're having good moments because it robs me of my confidence to leave her. Have anyone else felt this? Also I'm afraid to express warm feelings to her because I don't want to fool her, but if I don't do it I'm risking a fight. So I have to tell her I'm in love with her even though I want a divorce.

[formflier]

So..how did you respond to her communication about the plates and things she donated?

Best,

FF

[15years]

I responded something like that if I knew what I know today I wouldn't have made her get rid of them. And that is basically true even though I didn't make her get rid of them. But I think she liked that response because it sounded like I took responsibility for my part, normally I would be quiet (ashamed) or only say sorry, and then she would possibly ask me aggressively if I "haven't got anything to say about that?"

But things are still pretty calm, don't know how long that will last.

I'm both terrified of her rage and at the same time miss it because it confirms that my wishes to separate are justified. And its been only three days since last time. How sick is that... or is it just the anxiety of waiting for the next rage that makes me long for it? Will I ever be brave enough to leave...?

[formflier]

So...can you see how your response has some "JADE" in it?

are you familiar with that?


What if you had said something like "Oh babe..that sounds hard..Want to talk about it?"  then just pause and listen.

Best,

FF

[15years]

I haven't heard about JADE specifically, but have read similar communication tips, I will check it out.

She's smart so I'll have to be careful not to sound fake or distant. That's the problem isn't it, keeping distance to the intense emotions without showing her that I'm keeping distance, because she will notice if I use standard lines like "how does that make you feel?" etc. She would freak out even more. I'd have to sound more natural than that. Get what I mean?

And I have tried to say I'm so sorry she feels that way but to her that sounds like me saying I don't agree or care. Small things isn't that big of a deal but I really have to regret bigger issues otherwise she won't accept it. And also I have to give her a good explanation why I have hurt her. She's a bit histrionic so watching porn for example was the worst thing I could have done to hurt her. And I have to make things right by explaining, maybe I did it just to hurt her (making it more about her), or because I want to please my family and basically be a trash person (not her exact words) like them. Or maybe I don't feel good enough for her so I resort to watching people I think are trash like me.

[formflier]

Be careful not to make her "freaking out" the standard or the thing you avoid at all costs.

Much better to let her freak out and move on with your life..and show her over time that her rage no longer has power of you!

Yes..lots of techniques to get there...but the important thing is to understand "the big picture".


Best,

FF

[ThanksForPlaying]

I'm here on the boards tonight because of this. We've been in an off/on recycling relationship for 10 years. Recently had a beautiful baby boy 3 weeks ago. Chaos since then.

Today she went out for lunch, to be home at 2pm so I could run some errands. 2pm became 3pm which became 4pm, with many excuses. "I'm coming home now"... then "I went BACK to my friend's house because traffic was bad"... I said ok, I'll meet you there... "I just left there AGAIN to come home"... Clearly she was out drinking, which she's had problems with before. Today, she called me around 530pm saying she had just pulled over to pee in a parking lot (not because she'd been drinking, but just because traffic was bad). So anyway, lying about drinking.

I said I was out with the baby running errands and would be home soon. She freaked out when she arrived home, saying I had kidnapped the baby... Started calling me, my family, texting everyone that I was gone and she didn't know where I was (we had talked and I told her I was leaving because she wasn't home on time and I had things to do).

She texted me that she had called police and they would be waiting for me when I got home, and she had also given them my mother's address in case I tried to go there. I called my mother and told her she might get a visit from the police. Then I called the police myself and calmly told them the situation. They advised me to go home because no one had made any complaints - pwBPD was bluffing - and they "couldn't do anything" of course. I told them "I don't want to go to jail if I go home" and they asked me "why would you go to jail?" Obviously this person doesn't know BPD. I said "because if I go home, she will create a conflict and tell the police she feels unsafe". They still advised me to simply go home and call them if anything worse happened. I asked them to please put my phone call on a permanent record. Who knows if they did.

So that was my FIRST time today where I had called the police and thought "this is it - no turning back now - this relationship is over"... and it wasn't quite over.

Then after further arguing at home, she destroyed my home office, took the baby into the bedroom and said I'll never touch my baby again. Fine, whatever. Three days ago (and other times in the past), she has locked me out of the house when I leave to do something. Tonight, with her and the child locked in the bedroom, I decided I would take the dogs out quickly and see if she locked me out. If she locked me out, I would call the police (again) and ask for a welfare check, and they would see that she was drunk and ranting with the baby, and possibly take her in on a psych hold (this happened a year ago with no baby involved). I had made up my mind and I valiantly took the dogs for a quick walk. Nothing happened. She didn't lock me out. Mostly calm when I returned. The second time today I felt it was a point of no return... and I was wrong.

So my point here is twofold.

1) I'm drawing boundaries that are just out of reach, when probably I should just realize that my original boundaries have already been crossed.

2) BPDs are extremely tuned in to the "final straw" and have an uncanny ability to walk that line and never quite cross the final boundary.

It's a combination of them walking the tightrope, and us not staying firm with the boundaries.

Tonight I'm certainly feeling like it's impossible to break up.

[formflier]

So...are you saying their threats are mostly hollow?

Best,

FF

[ThanksForPlaying]

Not "hollow" threats I don't think. Just that they often seem to be able to walk the line of exactly how much chaos they can get away with, without going to jail themselves (or without causing a full breakup).

In this case, the threat did turn out to be hollow, but had it not been hollow, it would have automatically triggered law enforcement response and some type of resolution, likely to her detriment. There was some type of awareness that she knew it could only be a threat.

And I'm not saying they are always hollow threats. Occasionally, after years of push/pull and escalation, they do either end up in jail, or the breakup does become final, because of something they do that cannot be undone.

I'm just saying they are very good at causing maximum chaos without ever crossing the final line - suicidal threats for example. Occasionally pwBPD do kill themselves. But it's much more common that they simply use suicidal threats for years to manipulate and create chaos and pain.

To a lesser extent, divorce threats. Or police threats. Every once in a while, pwBPD call the police and they accidently get arrested themselves. But not often. They seem to be able to maintain maximum chaos for extended periods of time without simply ending it.

And yes, it takes two to tango - I see my part in allowing this chaos to continue.

[formflier]

  I see my part in allowing this chaos to continue.

What I think is helpful is to say

"I choose NOT to add fuel to this fire I found burning"

Because...you didn't start the fire and likely can't put it out...but you can affect it...you can make it bigger or smaller...  That's the choice you have.

Best,

FF