Therapist Advice

[ACycleWiser]

Hey all of you.

After a 2nd tour of duty - this time lasting 4 years - i am back here again.

We are separating again after what appears to me a sudden crash from the cliff, on the other hand there were warning sings... but they popped up every so many months so you kind of grow numb to them...

which brings me to an interesting talk i had with my therapist lately...

What we often try and do to manage a relationship with a BPD is understand them. Often however this can lead to a rationalization tactic, you understand why they have an outburst, you know when and how to talk to them, you try and take away the punitive thoughts in their head. You operate like a professional bomb squad. And this give you some feeling of control.

The danger however, is that this can become a covert form of dissociation. As you end up so trained and focused in containing your emotions to employ the necessary tools... you end up emotionally detached especially after doing this for too long. So knowing how it all works and how to contain it, can become a strategy for not to feel how bad things really are.

Just wanted to drop that as a welcome thought.

[Couscous]

This is similar to what Nina Brown says in Children of the Self-Absorbed, with regard to deploying ‘emotional insulation’. This tactic is something that should be used sparingly because if you begin to make a habit of it, you will also block access to your positive emotions.

[SinisterComplex]

Hey all of you.

After a 2nd tour of duty - this time lasting 4 years - i am back here again.

We are separating again after what appears to me a sudden crash from the cliff, on the other hand there were warning sings... but they popped up every so many months so you kind of grow numb to them...

which brings me to an interesting talk i had with my therapist lately...

What we often try and do to manage a relationship with a BPD is understand them. Often however this can lead to a rationalization tactic, you understand why they have an outburst, you know when and how to talk to them, you try and take away the punitive thoughts in their head. You operate like a professional bomb squad. And this give you some feeling of control.

The danger however, is that this can become a covert form of dissociation. As you end up so trained and focused in containing your emotions to employ the necessary tools... you end up emotionally detached especially after doing this for too long. So knowing how it all works and how to contain it, can become a strategy for not to feel how bad things really are.

Just wanted to drop that as a welcome thought.

So as your Screen Name aptly states I am curious and have to pose the question...are you wiser from going through another cycle?

Are you done this time? Are you ready to de-tach? Or, are you wanting to go back for more?

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Rev]

What we often try and do to manage a relationship with a BPD is understand them. Often however this can lead to a rationalization tactic, you understand why they have an outburst, you know when and how to talk to them, you try and take away the punitive thoughts in their head. You operate like a professional bomb squad. And this give you some feeling of control.

Just wanted to drop that as a welcome thought.

Absolutely love this...

[ACycleWiser]

So as your Screen Name aptly states I am curious and have to pose the question...are you wiser from going through another cycle?

Are you done this time? Are you ready to de-tach? Or, are you wanting to go back for more?

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

Hi Sinister,

Wisdom in bags, now its only a matter to apply it.

Let me first start with my ex-BPD. I came to the conclusion that she tried, damn hard and with the best of intentions. But underneath, she does not have a structured self. All the control issues that arise during a relationship stem from that, there is nothing that can regulate itself as a self, so instead an attempt is made to control the environment, people, closest relationships to avoid any deregulation.

Also, this is the reason there can never be real intimacy in a relationship with an untreated BPD, because there is no self that can express itself intimately, that can love your strengths and weaknesses both. it can only mirror, or offer what i call "detached intimacy", eg. a robotic hug.

Which leads me to my end of the story. That last point about intimacy for me was a breaking point, and i guess she felt that - of course she did. I matured a lot over the last years, and i did not see any point in continuing the r/s if it did not deepen itself. Intensity, love bombing and the push pull drama in the end become like the visual effects in a movie, impressive sure, but they cannot make up for a chaotic plot without substance. I love her deeply, but i know she could never meet me at that depth.

Last bit i learned is that the antidote is in the venom. The pain that you feel at the end of such a relationship sure stings, it can feel lethal. But the cure is actually announced at the beginning. The idealization phase makes you feel whole, alive like nothing you can remember. But it also feeds your grandiosity, and that's the poison you get hooked on. So, try and go back to those greatest moments, take in your feelings of wholeness, absorb them again, feel the energy that ran through you, this is YOU.

But don't absorb the grandiose inflation that came with it, the saviour complex, this is your wound that brought you down, and from which all trauma was activated.

[Rev]

Last bit i learned is that the antidote is in the venom. The pain that you feel at the end of such a relationship sure stings, it can feel lethal. But the cure is actually announced at the beginning. The idealization phase makes you feel whole, alive like nothing you can remember. But it also feeds your grandiosity, and that's the poison you get hooked on. So, try and go back to those greatest moments, take in your feelings of wholeness, absorb them again, feel the energy that ran through you, this is YOU.

But don't absorb the grandiose inflation that came with it, the saviour complex, this is your wound that brought you down, and from which all trauma was activated.

Yes! Love this too... It's been said - I can't remember where - that pwBPD do recognize great depth in us at the beginning. But as they can't regulate - and if there are NPD traits, will seek to dominate - that window is very temporary. But what they saw in us at the beginning is real. The grandiosity that comes with it blinds us to our true values. The love of it, the savior complex, prompts to supress and eventually repress the red flags.

In my case, it was not a question of applying this knowledge so much as allowing it to work on me enough to detach. It was humbling to look into my blind spots. And I am the better for it.

Love this thread.

[SinisterComplex]

Hi Sinister,

Wisdom in bags, now its only a matter to apply it.

Let me first start with my ex-BPD. I came to the conclusion that she tried, damn hard and with the best of intentions. But underneath, she does not have a structured self. All the control issues that arise during a relationship stem from that, there is nothing that can regulate itself as a self, so instead an attempt is made to control the environment, people, closest relationships to avoid any deregulation.

Also, this is the reason there can never be real intimacy in a relationship with an untreated BPD, because there is no self that can express itself intimately, that can love your strengths and weaknesses both. it can only mirror, or offer what i call "detached intimacy", eg. a robotic hug.

Which leads me to my end of the story. That last point about intimacy for me was a breaking point, and i guess she felt that - of course she did. I matured a lot over the last years, and i did not see any point in continuing the r/s if it did not deepen itself. Intensity, love bombing and the push pull drama in the end become like the visual effects in a movie, impressive sure, but they cannot make up for a chaotic plot without substance. I love her deeply, but i know she could never meet me at that depth.

Last bit i learned is that the antidote is in the venom. The pain that you feel at the end of such a relationship sure stings, it can feel lethal. But the cure is actually announced at the beginning. The idealization phase makes you feel whole, alive like nothing you can remember. But it also feeds your grandiosity, and that's the poison you get hooked on. So, try and go back to those greatest moments, take in your feelings of wholeness, absorb them again, feel the energy that ran through you, this is YOU.

But don't absorb the grandiose inflation that came with it, the saviour complex, this is your wound that brought you down, and from which all trauma was activated.

Easier said than done, Do as I say not as I do huh? LOL. That typically happens to be the case for many people. Then of course there is the infamous practice what you preach. Yada, yada, yada, right? But I digress...

Thank you for sharing your insight. I think you are going to be alright. You have the tools and the knowledge at your disposal. Just make sure to put them to use. I can get behind your closing line more than anything else..."So, try and go back to those greatest moments, take in your feelings of wholeness, absorb them again, feel the energy that ran through you, this is YOU." - This is power, this is confidence. Very well put! 

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[ACycleWiser]

Easier said than done, Do as I say not as I do huh? LOL. That typically happens to be the case for many people. Then of course there is the infamous practice what you preach. Yada, yada, yada, right? But I digress...

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

It is the HARDEST thing to do. Because your childhood one way or another took all that away from you, so part of you is not "energized" as it should, and the idealization reconnected those parts momentarily. So you must go against your very own defenses here to get to a state of unconditional self valuation. Without igniting grandiosity.

Also, on one thing i really gathered proof for myself: i am now intellectually, intuitively and emotionally convinced that while BPD want to attach, they are not capable to sustain it over time. That was the false contract the relationship started under: you had to be the sustaining factor. The fears and traumas they carry will leak into the relationship over time WHATEVER YOU DO or WHOEVER YOU ARE, they will fester on the inside: invisible panic, guilt and shame will build up in massive quantities whenever they perceive relationship failure. it happens long before you start to notice, and you can slow this build up down, but not stop it.

They deep down know they can't sustain it, but that defectiveness is so subconsciously rooted, psychologically this awareness is repressed and in their primordial soup, so they will project it out and control your life till you are convinced YOU can't sustain it. That is also why you must carry the fundamental feelings of failure of both of you when the relationship ends.

[Carguy]

All of this was a great read and made me think! Thank you ACW!

[ILMBPDC]

Let me first start with my ex-BPD. I came to the conclusion that she tried, damn hard and with the best of intentions. But underneath, she does not have a structured self. All the control issues that arise during a relationship stem from that, there is nothing that can regulate itself as a self, so instead an attempt is made to control the environment, people, closest relationships to avoid any deregulation.

Also, this is the reason there can never be real intimacy in a relationship with an untreated BPD, because there is no self that can express itself intimately, that can love your strengths and weaknesses both. it can only mirror, or offer what i call "detached intimacy", eg. a robotic hug.

Wow, yeah, this hits home for me. I truly think my ex tries and has good intentions at the beginning but he just can't sustain that lack of self. And "detached intimacy" is the perfect word for what ends up happening, and why I end up feeling used. Thank you for that insight.

[ACycleWiser]

Wow, yeah, this hits home for me. I truly think my ex tries and has good intentions at the beginning but he just can't sustain that lack of self. And "detached intimacy" is the perfect word for what ends up happening, and why I end up feeling used. Thank you for that insight.

I think even later than that that they keep trying hard, i am 100% sure she tried till the bitter end, but the needs of both people become diametrically opposed, and that tension makes it in the end impossible. Both parties end up empty and exhausted.

I know what you mean about feeling used. But maybe that's where our expectations come into play. We expect intimacy and emotional closeness as a default human need. It's really hearthbreaking if you consider that the BPD person wants this too, but too much fear and shame boil up, too many defenses get activated to get there.

On that level you have to imagine a traumatized and abused 2 to 5 year old being dropped into the self to self intimacy aspect of an adult relationship. That is where the trauma gets relived. And that is why mirroring and other detached mechanisms try and emulate this intimacy. Again, it's the psychic structure of a 2-5 year old on that level that tries to be a grown adult by emulating rather than being. Wouldn't you get afraid?

[ILMBPDC]

I think even later than that that they keep trying hard, i am 100% sure she tried till the bitter end, but the needs of both people become diametrically opposed, and that tension makes it in the end impossible. Both parties end up empty and exhausted.

I know what you mean about feeling used. But maybe that's where our expectations come into play. We expect intimacy and emotional closeness as a default human need. It's really hearthbreaking if you consider that the BPD person wants this too, but too much fear and shame boil up, too many defenses get activated to get there.

On that level you have to imagine a traumatized and abused 2 to 5 year old being dropped into the self to self intimacy aspect of an adult relationship. That is where the trauma gets relived. And that is why mirroring and other detached mechanisms try and emulate this intimacy. Again, it's the psychic structure of a 2-5 year old on that level that tries to be a grown adult by emulating rather than being. Wouldn't you get afraid?

Yeah its interesting, I have thought of this a few times - I so badly want to ask him what he's afraid of, what's holding him back, but my own defense mechanisms (a lot of fear) come into play. If he was a child, I would hold him in my arms and reassure him that I wouldn't abandon him. But I am not his mother (or, likely, father in his case) and he is not a child. It truly is heartbreaking.