How do I give up HOPE?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

How do I give up hope?  It’s been two months since I broke up with my exGF, and we were only together for 2-1/2 months.  3 weeks after I broke up with her, she and two of her friends all reached out to me.  During a 2 week span the weeks of Christmas and New Years, we were messaging a little.  It was slow at first, but a couple days after Christmas, we were messaging a lot, and I was asking her if we could have a conversation about our relationship, what happened that upset each of us, and if we could try to move forward solving those issues.  She had just had a major surgery, and she said we could  talk after New Years.  On January 3, I noticed she was in a Facebook official new relationship with another guy.  WTF?

It’s been nearly a month since that discovery, and I can’t let go.  Why do I care so much?  Why do I want her back?  All of the stories I read on here make it clear that recycles don’t work, and they only cause more pain.  Yet I am hoping to talk with her again.  All of my friends and family tell me I dodged a bullet with her, yet I still want to try again.  There’s a part of me that knows she probably isn’t good for me, which is why I broke up with her, yet I still want to try again.  She’s in a relationship apparently posting that she loves the guy (she unfriended me  on FB but friends have told me), yet I still want to try again.  I have other women who want to go out with me, and I’ve tried to go out on dates, but I’m still hung up on my ex. 

If I can’t be with her, why can’t I let go?  How do I give up hope?  I feel so depressed and miserable the past two months.  For a brief moment when she and I were messaging last month, I felt better because I thought I would get another chance.  But I didn’t, and I need to give up hope.  But I don’t know how.  I keep hoping she’s going to break up with this new guy and come back to me. 

[GTS22]

How do I give up hope?  It’s been two months since I broke up with my exGF, and we were only together for 2-1/2 months.  3 weeks after I broke up with her, she and two of her friends all reached out to me.  During a 2 week span the weeks of Christmas and New Years, we were messaging a little.  It was slow at first, but a couple days after Christmas, we were messaging a lot, and I was asking her if we could have a conversation about our relationship, what happened that upset each of us, and if we could try to move forward solving those issues.  She had just had a major surgery, and she said we could  talk after New Years.  On January 3, I noticed she was in a Facebook official new relationship with another guy.  WTF?

It’s been nearly a month since that discovery, and I can’t let go.  Why do I care so much?  Why do I want her back?  All of the stories I read on here make it clear that recycles don’t work, and they only cause more pain.  Yet I am hoping to talk with her again.  All of my friends and family tell me I dodged a bullet with her, yet I still want to try again.  There’s a part of me that knows she probably isn’t good for me, which is why I broke up with her, yet I still want to try again.  She’s in a relationship apparently posting that she loves the guy (she unfriended me  on FB but friends have told me), yet I still want to try again.  I have other women who want to go out with me, and I’ve tried to go out on dates, but I’m still hung up on my ex. 

If I can’t be with her, why can’t I let go?  How do I give up hope?  I feel so depressed and miserable the past two months.  For a brief moment when she and I were messaging last month, I felt better because I thought I would get another chance.  But I didn’t, and I need to give up hope.  But I don’t know how.  I keep hoping she’s going to break up with this new guy and come back to me. 

[ILMBPDC]

I wish I knew. But I will tell you that distance/no contact is going to play a huge role. Every time you have contact it resets the clock, at least that's been the case for me. I am struggling to detach for the third time. After the second discard, we were no contact for 3 1/2 months and I will tell you that was the most healing time I'd had since we met. I felt so good about it that when he contacted me and asked if we could be friends I actually thought I could do it. Unfortunately, 2 1/2 months later, I am a basket case again.

My advice is to go no contact and let time heal you. And don't expect that you will be able to "handle" seeing her anytime soon (maybe ever). Eventually you will meet someone new and you can start to build hope around them. I wish you well.

[GTS22]

Thanks ILMBPDC.  I went no contact for 3 weeks after the breakup, and then she and 2 of her friends contacted me, which sucked me back in and gave me HOPE.  We messaged for 2 weeks, and I’ve been no contact since December 30.  So it’s been a full month of no contact.  I’m not going to initiate contact, but I’m not sure I’m strong enough to ignore her if she were to contact me.  I doubt she will as long as she is in this new relationship.  I think I have a couple more months before  she will end this one.  Her 40th birthday is coming up in march, and I can’t imagine her wanting to not have a guy in the picture for that. 

I just feel like I can’t move forward.  I’m stuck in HOPE that she will want to try again with me.  I know time and distance is the only answer, but I hate how I feel right now.

[ILMBPDC]

Thanks ILMBPDC.  I went no contact for 3 weeks after the breakup, and then she and 2 of her friends contacted me, which sucked me back in and gave me HOPE.  We messaged for 2 weeks, and I’ve been no contact since December 30.  So it’s been a full month of no contact.  I’m not going to initiate contact, but I’m not sure I’m strong enough to ignore her if she were to contact me.  I doubt she will as long as she is in this new relationship.  I think I have a couple more months before  she will end this one.  Her 40th birthday is coming up in march, and I can’t imagine her wanting to not have a guy in the picture for that. 

I just feel like I can’t move forward.  I’m stuck in HOPE that she will want to try again with me.  I know time and distance is the only answer, but I hate how I feel right now.

I've been there. I was so worried about him contacting me in October that I was having a meltdown on the forum. Honestly, this is why you need to BLOCK everything. That way she can't contact you. And that is hard, I know, to finally, fully let go. If I had actually blocked my ex after he discarded me I wouldn't be in the situation I am in now. I left the possibility of communication open. Because I had hope if I am being fully honest, even though I denied it left and right at the time.

I had hope that he would come back ...and he did...and I am right back where I was 6 months ago and it sucks. I understand what you are going through 10000% but I implore you to be smarter than I was and just block her and her friends.  Even if she comes back, things won't suddenly change. Sure at first it may seem like things are good but it quickly goes back to exactly where you were before and the cycle will begin again.

I realized if my daughter or sister or friend were in a relationship like this I would  encourage them to get out, its not healthy. So why can't I do that for myself? I started looking into me and my own patterns and why I even want to hold on to something that is toxic... and, for me, it all boils down to childhood neglect. I know nothing about you, but emotionally healthy people would not accept how a pwBPD treats them and would definitely not go back for a second (or third) helping. I am in therapy for cPTSD from my childhood and have started attending group meetings for adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families (ACA) and am trying really hard to work on myself and break the cycle.

I recommend you dig deep and try and figure out why you feel like you can't move forward and get a therapist if you don't have one already.

[ACycleWiser]

If I can’t be with her, why can’t I let go?  How do I give up hope?

I am so sorry that you too have to go through this confusing and painful process. It's good that you ended up here, so you do not have to go this road completely alone.

The answer to your question is two-sided.

Who was she? And what is happening now to you.

Who she was is a question that cannot be answered, a borderline person lacks an identity, and looks to others to provide them one that they can mirror and compliment. But exactly this creates problems with intimacy and attachement that can cause the weirdest behaviour from our nonBPD perspective. Understanding what borderline really is is useful, but not the final solution.

As Partners we meet someone who is just like us, a soul mate level connection that develops at a break neck speed, and seems to be the answer to our problems. But, they merely enact through mirroring a fantasy that YOU have, they have a sixth sense to be your fantasy love and become that temporarily to fill their own personality void. But they are NOT that person. And that's why they can be with "a new guy" so fast and be their person in ways that defy your understanding.

Now that you know this, it is not the person that you are missing, cause technically that person never existed although it seemed real. It is your fantasy, your hope in life for the perfect love that is eating you up inside, you have trouble letting that go. You thought you found it, that it was present in this person, yet suddenly its gone like a fata morgana.

You are mourning a fantasy relationship that could never be sustained, your whole entity in all its aspect may be fighting back and forth to withdraw from this fantasy bond, and you resist to fully grieve it because grieving your own fantasy is the hardest thing in life.

[GTS22]

Well said ACylcleWiser.  But since you’ve explained the WHY I’m feeling the way I feel, and the WHY she is behaving the way she behaves, what I am missing is the HOW do I let go and move forward?  How do I let go of that fantasy?  I’ve mourned the loss for 2 months, and the relationship was only 2-1/2 months long.  I’ve been out almost as long as I was in.  But what you explain certainly makes sense for how I feel.

[ACycleWiser]

what I am missing is the HOW do I let go and move forward?  How do I let go of that fantasy?

If you were only a few months in, it is the hardest place to be in i guess, cause you have mainly experienced the idealisation, where they can be such a perfect fit for the fantasy.

But this would never have lasted. The thing is, the moment you really commit to the relationship is the moment the fantasy starts to fade. I have a bit more perspective given my 12 year experience, and it ended in a state where she could not show emotions, where there was no real intimacy for years and she drove herself crazy trying to control the family so she would not get deregulated emotionally. And i ended up exhausted trying to hold on to something that really died long ago, totally deprived of emotions, intimacy and closeness.

I used to be convinced for a very long time: our case would be different, but sitting out those 12 years i got the proof that no case has a miracle solution. Your love does not help them.

So, part of letting go in your case is imagining the future you would have had, not the one you thought you'd had and that perhaps was even promised to you. fact that she is gone proves that those promises where intentions of the moment, but the disease never keeps its promises, even though the person suffering from it really believes it in that moment.

This is really the thing you have to wrap your mind around: it ended at its high point, and she probably knew that she would not be able to uphold the fantasy, it would only have been a maddening descent into a chaotic nightmare if you had been given the time to stay. You only saw the flower bloom, but take it from me once the flower withers, you are left with a flesh eating plant, which will leach into your skin and drain all your empathy until you are a shadow of your former self.

[GTS22]

ACycleWiser:  Man, you make it sound grim.  I'm sure you're right, and reading the stories on her of people who have recycled, it sounds like there's no chance of a successful relationship.  But those first 8 weeks were so incredibly amazing, and even the following 3 tumultuous weeks included some really great times.  I got myself out as I saw things were changing, but I keep wondering if I gave up too soon.  I haven't been able to move on from this woman, and I really don't understand why.  I think the relationship was so intense so quickly, that it's taking me longer to unravel and let go.  Like I said, I only dated her for 2-1/2 months, and I broke up with her 2 months ago.  I was the one who ended it.  I just don't understand why I can't move forward and how to let go of the hope that she will come back and we would have a great relationship again?

[ILMBPDC]

So, part of letting go in your case is imagining the future you would have had, not the one you thought you'd had and that perhaps was even promised to you. fact that she is gone proves that those promises where intentions of the moment, but the disease never keeps its promises, even though the person suffering from it really believes it in that moment.

This is a great call-out and something I experienced less than a week ago, even as he was already talking to a new woman and making plans to go see her in another state.
There is something about pwBPD (at least mine) that seem to be able to daydream about the future - ostensibly with you in it, nut it turns out that its just a fantasy for them and you are just a placeholder. They may want all of that but its not necessarily with you. At the exact second they say it they may mean it, and may even mean it to be with you, but that could change the next day. I am positive that he has said essentially the exact same things to every woman he has been with (because, its his fantasy, and they are just a placeholder).
The sad thing about my ex is he does this with everything - he says things but never follows through on them - could be as simple as enthusiastically promising to watch a movie with me or read a book I recommended or buying apples so we can bake a pie together (which he kept saying he really wanted to do) to more serious things like "I love you" (which he said for the first time only 2 weeks before discarding me the first time). He may really mean them at that second but then its all out of sight out of mind. He once even said to me "well I meant it at the time" but apparently things change. Sigh. Its a lot like a toddler's lack of object permeance only for them its a lack of emotional permeance.

This is really the thing you have to wrap your mind around: it ended at its high point, and she probably knew that she would not be able to uphold the fantasy, it would only have been a maddening descent into a chaotic nightmare if you had been given the time to stay. You only saw the flower bloom, but take it from me once the flower withers, you are left with a flesh eating plant, which will leach into your skin and drain all your empathy until you are a shadow of your former self.

Very poetic
But yes, I agree - they know they cannot uphold the fantasy forever. They are scared to let people see the "real" them because inside they are a seething mess of...a flesh eating plant, I guess
But when it ends so early - as it did with me (about 2 months, though I think he was checking out around 6 weeks and this has been the same pattern every time, he can only keep it up about 6 weeks then it festers for a couple more before he discards) - you are left with the idealization/love bombing/future faking stuff and your brain desperately wants it to all have been real.

Understanding BPD helps somewhat but it doesn't help with getting over them, sadly.

[ACycleWiser]

ACycleWiser:  Man, you make it sound grim.  I'm sure you're right, and reading the stories on her of people who have recycled, it sounds like there's no chance of a successful relationship.  But those first 8 weeks were so incredibly amazing, and even the following 3 tumultuous weeks included some really great times.  I got myself out as I saw things were changing, but I keep wondering if I gave up too soon.  I haven't been able to move on from this woman, and I really don't understand why.  I think the relationship was so intense so quickly, that it's taking me longer to unravel and let go.  Like I said, I only dated her for 2-1/2 months, and I broke up with her 2 months ago.  I was the one who ended it.  I just don't understand why I can't move forward and how to let go of the hope that she will come back and we would have a great relationship again?

You have had an intimate relationship with yourself, with the bpd merely acting as a mirroring entity. The intensity was theirs, but it helped to let your guard down so they could feel loved by becoming a reflection of yourself.

[GTS22]

ACycleWiser:  Interesting comment about the fact that I had the intimate relationship with myself, and that the BPD was simply a mirroring entity.  That should mean that I can regain the good feelings of that relationship by loving myself more, which seems to be what everyone is telling me - only I'm not sure how to love myself more? 

Clearly I loved myself enough to end the relationship shortly after it started to become sour.  But I don't love myself enough to stand behind my decision, as I've second guessed that decision and miss my exGF tremendously. 

I know you said that since it essentially ended at the high point, that I can look to what the future of that relationship would have been.  And to some degree I get that.  I could already see her rage beginning, and I'm sure it would only get worse and worse.  And, she was beginning to drive a wedge between me and my best friend, as well as start unnecessary drama with my daughters.  But even knowing all of this, and even knowing that she is in a new "I love you" Facebook official relationship, I stubbornly am clinging to ridiculous hope that she's simply making bad decisions that she will one day regret.  I suppose that's not how BPD's think?

[SinisterComplex]

ACycleWiser:  Interesting comment about the fact that I had the intimate relationship with myself, and that the BPD was simply a mirroring entity.  That should mean that I can regain the good feelings of that relationship by loving myself more, which seems to be what everyone is telling me - only I'm not sure how to love myself more? 

Clearly I loved myself enough to end the relationship shortly after it started to become sour.  But I don't love myself enough to stand behind my decision, as I've second guessed that decision and miss my exGF tremendously. 

I know you said that since it essentially ended at the high point, that I can look to what the future of that relationship would have been.  And to some degree I get that.  I could already see her rage beginning, and I'm sure it would only get worse and worse.  And, she was beginning to drive a wedge between me and my best friend, as well as start unnecessary drama with my daughters.  But even knowing all of this, and even knowing that she is in a new "I love you" Facebook official relationship, I stubbornly am clinging to ridiculous hope that she's simply making bad decisions that she will one day regret.  I suppose that's not how BPD's think?

So why exactly are you being so stubborn? To what end? Do you think its that you are supposed to be the hero and that you two are supposed to be together and live happily ever after?

The facebook thing. Look I have my own personal bias which I admit and that is that social media is a cancer. I understand it for businesses, etc. However, I think Facebook and the like do more harm than good. Look at yourself for example. Look at how affected you are indirectly because of it. But I digress...

GTS...block her on facebook or anything that can be in your face. Seriously you need to cut this umbilical cord asap. At least until you are centered.

Seriously on some bro code stuff...no woman let alone a person should ever have this kind of dominion over you.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[GTS22]

SinisterComplex, I hear you, and I agree.  No woman should have this dominion on me, but she does.  And I don't know why. 

I stopped checking her social media.  It doesn't matter.  I can't get through a conversation without thinking about her or bringing her up.   My friends and family are getting tired of me talking about her, and I don't blame them.  But I can't stop obsessing.

[SinisterComplex]

SinisterComplex, I hear you, and I agree.  No woman should have this dominion on me, but she does.  And I don't know why. 

I stopped checking her social media.  It doesn't matter.  I can't get through a conversation without thinking about her or bringing her up.   My friends and family are getting tired of me talking about her, and I don't blame them.  But I can't stop obsessing.

Hey GTS I get it. I truly and sincerely do. It is still going to take you time. You will get there though. However, here is what I need from you. No more defeatist mentality. You can stop obsessing. You are not powerless. Instead of saying and thinking you can't stop obsessing you have to train yourself that yes you can. Again...you need to replace her in your mind with something else and truly throw yourself into it, but it has to be novel and something constructive and productive. Let your curiosity carry you, but be open to exploring and force yourself to get on point. You have to quit being stubborn and just do it! Instead of looking at this as me telling you that you are wrong realize that all of us on here can't be wrong. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, well then it is a F Duck! LOL

Cheers and best wishes my friend!

-SC-

[ACycleWiser]

Clearly I loved myself enough to end the relationship shortly after it started to become sour.  But I don't love myself enough to stand behind my decision, as I've second guessed that decision and miss my exGF tremendously. 

I stubbornly am clinging to ridiculous hope that she's simply making bad decisions that she will one day regret.  I suppose that's not how BPD's think?

The thing that i noticed personally regarding self-love is that it is not as simple as memorizing these affirmation-based self-loving phrases that make it seem like self-love can make all suffering go away.

Sometimes Self-love is all about accepting the pain and enduring the sadness that is necessary to move your life towards a better future. You can not avoid pain here, it is going to hurt. But it is going to hurt less if you surrender to yourself than if you keep surrendering to false hope.

BPD's do not think at all like us about these things, they do whatever their molotov cocktail of emotions dictates and then rationalize after the fact.

[ILMBPDC]

BPD's do not think at all like us about these things, they do whatever their molotov cocktail of emotions dictates and then rationalize after the fact.

I just have to say that this is a very accurate analogy.

[ACycleWiser]

I just have to say that this is a very accurate analogy.

Yes, and the thing is, those rationalizations are not fixed. They are redone and redone depending on the mood and perspective at any given time.

That is why you can be the big crush, the hero, the villain and a totally worthless human all over the course of a single day.

[GTS22]

Thanks SinisterComplex and ACycleWiser.  Great advice.  And yes, I’ve had a morbidly defeatist attitude that I MUST change.  I’m working on that now, thanks to your pointing it out.  I’m just tired of feeling the way I feel.  I don’t like the person I’ve become the past couple months since the breakup.  I’m going to change that starting today.

[brighter future]

That is why you can be the big crush, the hero, the villain and a totally worthless human all over the course of a single day.

That is so true, ACycleWiser. I became all of those characters during a one hour telephone call with my ex-g/f about 5 days before she discarded me and on the day of the discard. The phone call started out well with her telling me how much she loved and missed me (we hadn't seen each other in 2-3 days), but something must have triggered her about 10-15 minutes into the conversation. All of a sudden, she got angry with me because I hadn't proposed to her yet. Then she began talking down to me and said I made her totally miserable. Early on in our relationship, we had a conversation about certain fears we had. I told her one of my greatest fears was dying alone. She reflected back to that and said to me in a hateful tone, "I guess you really want to die alone. You don't even want a wife."  Those words hurt me immensely, and I told her that wasn't true.

The devaluation continued for a while longer on the phone. About five minutes before we hung up for the night, she said "Don't lose any sleep over what I said. This has nothing to do with you." She spoke for a few minutes about her ongoing emotional issues. Two weeks prior she told me that she needed a psychologist. Then she proceeded to tell me how much she loved me like she did at the beginning of our phone conversation. Her behavior was up and down over the next 5 days. She showed up at my home on a Tuesday afternoon in April 2020 and told me how much she loved me and wanted to be married to me more than anything. Then she started to devaluate me and dumped me right before she walked out of my door. I was told in that particular moment that her emotional issues are not a problem, and she stated "That's just the way I am. I don't need a therapist."

To her credit, she told me shortly after we entered into the relationship that she "does destructive things in relationships" but she "didn't want it to be that way" with me. She followed it up with "are you sure that you want in on all of this mess and my craziness?" So, I can't say that I wasn't warned. I should have listened, but she was so good at drawing me in and making me feel like I was the best in every category. I had never been so intoxicated by a woman in my life. She could literally put me on the greatest high, then jerk the rug completely out from under me a minute later but could always reel me back in. I don't miss that toxic cycle at all and realize how unhealthy it really was now that I've stepped out of the relationship. Now I know why I slept so poorly and had blood pressure issues for nearly the whole duration of the relationship.