Anyone changed so much that they no longer trigger their spouse?

[orders4946]

Having reflected on my marriage I noticed that my wife used to display extreme BPD traits when triggered as a younger person but these have gradually decreased in severity over the years.  There is no more physical violence or intense raging arguments.

I was pondering whether she has overcome some of her issues, or whether I have become so conflict avoidant that I have moulded myself into someone that no longer triggers her (i.e. they are still there but I no longer trigger their manifestation).  I feel like it is the latter (I now rarely speak to friends and have to secretly speak to my family) and it is not making me very happy.  We have two children (aged 4 and 1) so their arrival may have made her feel more settled and secure in our life.  Interestingly the passion in our relationship is no longer present and seems to have coincided with the BPD episodes becoming less severe.

I don't really recognise myself as an independent person anymore - my thoughts and feelings are so aligned with hers to avoid conflict.  It is not making me happy but it is a difficult balance between my yearning for independence and maintaining my family unit for the sake of our children.

Has anyone been in a similar situation?   I would very much welcome your thoughts and experiences.

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[alterK]

It seems to me, Orders, that you have answered your own question. According to the texts, at least, it's true that many people's BPD traits diminish as they get older. Has your W been in treatment for BPD? It's also true that with any pwBPD you are always doing a balancing act.

You'll read lots of stories on this forum of people who have spent so many years and exerted so much effort adapting to their BPD partner that they feel they themselves have vanished in the process. Judging just by postings, there are some individuals with BPD who are so miserable to deal with that it's impossible to live with them, no matter how hard you try. There are others, and your W sounds like one, whose traits are milder, and with whom it's possible to get along if you are very careful.

You are in a tough spot. You've managed to work out how to keep things quiet with your spouse, but at major cost to yourself. And after all, if a person isn't willing to make sacrifices for their family, what are they? Still, there can be limits. And there's always the question of how much you can change yourself and still keep your family intact. Not easy!

Perhaps you could start with something small, trying to make some small change and seeing what happens. You will find a lot about how to approach that in the "Tools" section of this website, especially in the books listed there.

[15years]

I have thought about this too, but I'm still in the physical violence phase. I'm afraid that when that phase stops (I believe it will) I will be in the same position as you. She believes her own delusions more and more as time goes by and one day I think she will feel she doesn't need the physical violence anymore, the psychological violence is enough. And that scares me. In her mind, she's not violent, she is just a women who has begun to stand up for herself. She thinks that violence is wrong but that it has been needed in our crisis the last year.

What has led you to this forum, has some sort of inner process started in you? I'm afraid of change but this site keeps me going. I can at least come here to read and write even if I feel like I don't have the strength or confidence to change the relationship with my wife. It's hard when the things I try makes me an abuser in her eyes.

I also have two children, 2 and 5.

[Cat Familiar]

To answer your question, yes, I’ve changed so much that I no longer trigger my spouse. Sure, there are times I say and do dumb stuff, but now I know ways to get myself out of hot water and things quickly return to normal.

What I have done is to make myself healthier emotionally. That means I no longer engage in circular arguments, I don’t JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) when he is emotionally upset, I take time outs for myself rather than listening to his rants, I have healthy boundaries (something I didn’t have previously), I do things I enjoy that support my mental and physical health, and I keep in touch with friends.

[FirstSteps]

I feel like I absolutely did this for years.  I have memories of entire stretches of time where I remember it as more or less good.  A little BPD but nothing terrible.  But then I recently found an old journal and it was eye opening how much I was making myself small to make it work.  And also how many fights and horrible nights I've forgotten.

Anyway, this all broke down for me late in the pandemic.  I just couldn't maintain it anymore - the feeling of losing myself was too hard and all my efforts were failing anyway.

I now see this as a good thing - I clearly needed a major disaster and 18 months more or less locked up together as a family to change.

I would love for Cat's version to be mine some day.  That I make enough healthy changes that she isn't triggered anymore because I've become good on my end and stopped worrying about her.  But as I'm getting the silent treatment today essentially because I went for a walk yesterday, I'm not so hopeful.

[orders4946]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and considered responses.

According to the texts, at least, it's true that many people's BPD traits diminish as they get older. Has your W been in treatment for BPD?

My wife has never sought treatment as she considers her thoughts and actions to be 'normal' and 'proportionate' responses to my behaviour or actions.  Sometimes she seems to be very self-aware but not so much in other times.  The most she has ever conceded is that she has a 'fiery' temper and those reactions are the 'flipside to her loving and affectionate side'.  She sought treatment in her 20s for depression and anxiety and said she found CBT helpful.

What has led you to this forum, has some sort of inner process started in you? I'm afraid of change but this site keeps me going. I can at least come here to read and write even if I feel like I don't have the strength or confidence to change the relationship with my wife. It's hard when the things I try makes me an abuser in her eyes

I am very sorry you are in this position.  I hope it offers you some comfort that there are others in a similar position to you.  Thank you very much for posting.

In terms of what has led me here; I suppose I have reached the end of my rope with my wife and I'm now conflicted as to what to do.  I don't want to break up my family but I'm desperately unhappy in my marriage and it is making me into an angry, depressed person.  It feels like something has 'snapped' within me recently and I feel like I cannot let the past traumas go.  I have been fantasising about moving out and I now have options which are increasing my desire to leave.

I have been unhappy for a number of years.  I feel like my wife's control over me gradually increased over time - emotional manipulation to do things that I did not want to do, how I dressed, how I wore my hair, who I was friends with etc - and it feels like I let that happen in an effort to prove my love to her and make her feel secure.  She started off by controlling these things indirectly (emotionally manipulating me by being sad or upset when I didn't do what she wanted) and eventually began to do these things directly (telling me what to eat when we were conceiving, telling me to return things I had purchased that she disagreed with etc).  It reached a crescendo during the pandemic were I felt trapped by her health anxiety - I was not able to leave the house or interact with anyone who she didn't feel safe with for almost 2 years.  I feel like I have no thoughts or opinions of my own anymore as I defer to her on literally everything.  Yes it makes for a smoother day-to-day in our marriage but it is making me deeply unhappy.

This isolation suited my wife as her family were 'approved' whereas my mother wasn't.  My wife dislikes my mother following my mother's attempts to persuade my wife to introduce my eldest son to my extended family when he was 1 year old (I wasn't there during this visit).  I backed my wife at the time but my wife's hatred gradually increased because my mother did not see the events the way my wife did.  It led to me having to speak to my mother in secret to avoid triggering my wife (who would shout in the background and refuse to let my children be on camera).  In an effort to improve the situation I managed to persuade my wife to see my mother during the festive period and this was the final straw - my wife effectively bullied my mother and refused to let her see my children for longer than 30 minutes in a public park however my wife recounted the events completely differently to how I witnessed it - she wanted me to be grateful to my wife for the 'effort' she spent 'accommodating' my mother. 

For years I was hopeful that things would change (i.e. she would loosen her control if I contributed more financially to the relationship, she would drop the resentment if I improved myself as a father etc etc) but the goalposts seem to constantly move.  We're now in a position where the passion/love is not there but we get on smoothly as long as I'm not rocking the boat.  We have big decisions to make for our future (new house, wife not returning to work after maternity leave etc) and the thought of continuing feels me with dread when I know I can escape relatively unscathed if I do it now.

I do things I enjoy that support my mental and physical health, and I keep in touch with friends.

I would be really interested to hear more about this - are these activities that are 'approved' by your spouse?  What happens if you try and do things that are not 'approved'?  I feel like I can only do the former - my wife seems to act like she 'owns' my time.

But as I'm getting the silent treatment today essentially because I went for a walk yesterday, I'm not so hopeful.

I hope things improve for you soon.  Has this happened to you before?  You mention in one of your other posts that you are making plans to leave - I would be really interested to hear more about why and how you plan to actually do it given the similarities with our situations.

[Cat Familiar]

In response to your question about “approved” activities, I can’t say that he really disapproves about anything I do.

My husband is probably not too keen about me going horseback riding with friends, but he bought me a horse trailer.

The only thing I ever notice him being vocal about is my listening to a particular political podcast when I’m washing the dishes after he cooks, because he can’t stand the sound of the guy’s voice. He has asked me repeatedly how I “can stand to listen to him”? I just laugh. If it bothers him that much, he can go do something in his studio—and he always does after dinner anyway.

[alterK]

I don't know if this will be helpful to you. In another thread I suggested to someone an approach I have lately employed with my W in conversations, and in my own head. I insist on talking only about present and future. That we not use the past tense. Briefly, this stops the arguments about who did what to whom 2 years ago. And for me it helps to keep me from brooding on past things that went wrong.

This way, instead of dwelling on the past, which you can't control and about which you and your W are likely to disagree, you start with the present, about which there can be much less disagreement. Then look at the future, which is something you can control. You can make decisions with or without her participation.

You don't have to figure out everything. There is no stairway to heaven, in this life, at least. Just decide what's the next baby step you can take. Something realistic and do-able. If your W doesn't give you a hard time, so much the better, but her consent may not be necessary.

[Skip]

Don't you think it could be all three. Her learning to moderate herself better, you learning how to defuse and avoid triggers, and the children adding love and distraction to the relationship.

The thing that stands out in your comment is your feeling of having lost yourself, your masculinity. It happens in these relationships and we have to own that. We learn how to not fan the flames, but the real challenge is to maintain that skill and get in touch with your masculinity.

Pinpointing this as the problem (if that is the case) is half the battle, adopting a mindset to resolve it, is the other half. Reconnecting with yourself doesn't need to be flashing or antagonistic or involve her. Start to feel and see yourself as the man you are.

[FirstSteps]

I hope things improve for you soon.  Has this happened to you before?  You mention in one of your other posts that you are making plans to leave - I would be really interested to hear more about why and how you plan to actually do it given the similarities with our situations.

I do see so many similarities in our situations - even within the context of this group.  My wife is so charming and smart and kind but the grind of the BPD has taken too much of a toll.  I probably would have had one answer earlier today but I actually went to therapy where my T started drawing circles of emotional violence and asking me how I'd advise a friend in a certain situation (my wife refused to let me leave a room by the main door - insisting I go out the back - it was a new level and scared me).  So now I think I'm just beaten down by the emotional abuse that goes along with the BPD.  At some point last year I started using the metaphor that my reservoir had run dry.  At the time, I saw it as that all my strong, positive caretaking energy was temporarily gone.  But it actually woke me up to the control she had over me, her self-centeredness and my inability to take it anymore.  Then later I started realizing the role I was playing in creating the whole system, which had affected my kids (D15 and S13) greatly and was absolutely horrifying.  I think that's what really snapped me out of it - the kids.   I had backed off the leaving idea actually, though now after this session, I don't know how to stay?  But also not sure how to leave.  I'm on parallel tracks where I'm getting ready for our spring break vacation and also researching lawyers and looking for apartments that take dogs ...

[15years]

I am very sorry you are in this position.  I hope it offers you some comfort that there are others in a similar position to you.  Thank you very much for posting.

It do offer some comfort and also makes me see my reality more and more clearly, it feels like I'm approaching my situation from all directions --> my feelings, the facts, who I am, who she is, what's important to me, my faults, her faults and much more. Still I'm constantly afraid that I've given up on freedom.

I'm sorry you are in this position too, your situation sounds very hard, with your mom being a hot topic, this has also been going on for me but not to the extent you're describing.

I had major thoughts (and one sad attempt) about leaving for 1-2 months before and after christmas, now I'm fantasizing about it only when it's bad, and I'm trying to look at my emotions from the outside. I'm not sure if this is a good idea or if it only makes me tolerate more.

[FirstSteps]

I had major thoughts (and one sad attempt) about leaving for 1-2 months before and after christmas, now I'm fantasizing about it only when it's bad, and I'm trying to look at my emotions from the outside. I'm not sure if this is a good idea or if it only makes me tolerate more.

This is such a hard place to be in - this in between.  I'm sorry you're going through it.  I'm struggling with much the same.  Are my attempts to use the tools here only a cover to stay in a bad situation?  I look at a lot of the articles and resources and they more or less scream at me "leave!"  But then you get to other parts about super validating and working with their quirks and so on, and I feel like I should give it a try. 

[Cat Familiar]

Not knowing whether to stay or leave in of itself is very draining. Why not in the meantime, learn everything you can here and implement that? Set a date in the future to assess if things have improved and how you feel about the future of the relationship. And in the meantime, don’t worry about making a decision.

[FirstSteps]

That seems like a good idea. I can just decide to decide on May 1.  It's enough time to think but not so long that I feel I'm giving up.  It also gets us through spring break and is 6 weeks before we'd have to fly off for our annual summer trip to my wife's home country.

[fisher101]

I feel like I absolutely did this for years.  I have memories of entire stretches of time where I remember it as more or less good.  A little BPD but nothing terrible.  But then I recently found an old journal and it was eye opening how much I was making myself small to make it work.  And also how many fights and horrible nights I've forgotten.

Anyway, this all broke down for me late in the pandemic.  I just couldn't maintain it anymore - the feeling of losing myself was too hard and all my efforts were failing anyway.

I now see this as a good thing - I clearly needed a major disaster and 18 months more or less locked up together as a family to change.

I would love for Cat's version to be mine some day.  That I make enough healthy changes that she isn't triggered anymore because I've become good on my end and stopped worrying about her.  But as I'm getting the silent treatment today essentially because I went for a walk yesterday, I'm not so hopeful.

The best defense for me against the "silent treatment" was to just tell the truth, that I actually enjoy it. I can go days or weeks without talking to people, I don't get lonely and I don't really "miss" people they way most others do. I think the fear of abandonment kicks in when she sees that I'm pretty comfortable on my own and so the "silent treatment" ends.

[alterK]

You actually don't help your W by complying with her every demand. What you do is confirm her vision of the world as a hazardous, chaotic place in which survival is only possible by adhering to every more rigid, ideosyncratic routines. Start by making small changes, reasonable things that you think you can carry through--with your own behavior. She may give you a hard time, but in the end you may actually be giving her a small dose of security by showing her you can control what you do and be relied upon to do what you say you will.

[Notwendy]

Walking on eggshells, and subjugating your own will to avoid triggering someone is actually enabling their behavior. It took a counselor to help me see that I don't trigger someone ( as long as I don't deliberately try to be hurtful ). The person who is triggered is the one responsible for that, after all, it's impossible to trigger someone who doesn't have that trigger.

We can not control someone else's feelings and although the pwBPD may perceive you as triggering them, it's not in your power to do this, or avoid this. You know that when you interact with other people- they may be disappointed if you say no, or don't go along with what they want- but they aren't triggered in the same way and don't react as if they were.

The key to not triggering someone is to realize you didn't do this in the first place but by enabling in order to avoid this- you are managing your own fears or triggers and learn about them and manage them.

What are the fears? Losing the relationship maybe, or being seen as the "bad person", or being raged at. If there's a potential for physical danger to yourself ( physical abuse ) or them ( self harm, suicide threats ) this requires professional intervention- calling 911.

I think the positive change that Skip is referring to is when we change our part in the dysfunction- not JADEing, not being invalidating, not saying mean things back when we are upset, being less reactive emotionally- not adding to the drama but regulating our own feelings when they are disregulating. But this is a part of our own emotional regulation, not trying to regulate theirs by appeasing and walking on eggshells. When we do that, we actually keep them from learning to deal with their own emotions.

I think this is a best first step- change our response, but to appease and walk on eggshells is not a step towards change in the long run. How much change is possible- I think that can vary. Each situation is different since BPD is a spectrum disorder.