Suspect my spouse has BPD.Need help if the symptoms are BPD or not.

[kbpdspouse]

our marriage is a roller coster not able to understand my wife .We are not happy and always quarrel from 5 years .
From last month I started to get some knowledge on BPD and I suspect she is having symptoms of BPD but I am not sure. Below are my observations I have seen in my wife from 5 years .Can someone help to understand if it can be BPD. I always knew she was depressed so I was asking her to meet psychiatrist from 2 years but she never agreed and  picked up the quarrel every time.I never doubted BPD .

Below are my observations but I need to make sure 100% if it is BPD , if so how to convince her to meet  psychiatrist . Any help is appreciated, also I want to inform that I am not blaming my wife here .My only intention is to understand if this is BPD symptoms as she is not willing to come to psychiatrist. or she might not like the relationship at all thats why she acts like that.

Extreme Jealousy (We are well settled financially but still she is extremely  jealous when some one is doing good)

Extreme mood swings.Especially morning is worst.

Extreme violent anger with Bad mouth.

Holding on to grudge for the silliest mistake done by others. (Normal person will not even bother about them even in their dreams) Also not coming to good terms even after 8 years for the same reason.
No matter what ,not able to make her think straight.

Yelling, uncontrollable crying.

No Empathy ( I can explain this accurately with recent events)

Threatening violently for divorce and taking away kid and all my money, but never takes a step to divorce.
If I question why ,she says she is compassionate on me .At the same time , she is not happy and won’t let me be happy also.

Never ever agrees she is wrong, even though she is wrong most of the time.

Don’t know how to relax and be stress free .
Always something going on in her head and racing thoughts.

At times she is quiet outside but she is depressed inside with racing thoughts but trying to avoid fight .she controls her bad temper.

Highly energetic and intelligent academically.

 I presume most of the marriage are like above ,but what makes her different is
1. Never ever apologized from 6 years , she says all bad things in marriage is because of me and our family.Holding the grudge to this day and she is also not happy and ruining marriage.
2. Extreme mood swings , silliest things will turn her to extreme anger. After that episode, she will be sad ,frustrated for more than 5 days and sometimes 10 days.(Holding on the same mood for days is what I say not normal)
3. Extreme texting (several  nights in the span of 3 hours she texted me more than 1000 messages which is full of hatred, I have the messages saved). Why I don’t feel normal is if I don’t text back then she is super furious and she lashes out with more texts till I respond.This will go on for hours.
4. Calling back to back during night time and in office hours for more than 3 hours.I can’t ignore her calls, she threatens she will call my colleagues or my family if I don’t pick up.
5. Phone snooping, she always looks into my phone reads the texts what app, facebook and then starts fighting if she does not like me talking to someone like my nephews .
6. Even though , I apologize every-time  just to make her happy and relaxed ,it is very very hard to convince her even the simple things and her mood is sad for days . Until unless she calms down , I keep quiet.
7. This mood swings happens at-least twice in a week from 5 years and she is mostly in normal mood for 3-5 days in a month. That is the happy time for us , but there is no immense joy sharing , she is just in good mood that’s all.
8. Disturbed sleep , once she wakes up or some slight sound , she won’t go back to bed after that.
9. She has told I LOVE YOU may be 5 times in 10 years of marriage . She can’t express her love in any any way.She cooks promptly and never misses her work .She is energetic.
10. Why I call her anger extreme : Hitting her own head with her hands for more than 1-2 mins while moving her body continuously like swirling and rounding   ,along with this  shouting at the peak of her voice and crying. I have never seen anyone doing like this . This has happened atleast once in a week for more than 5 years .After this her mood is so violent , she cannot be approached for more than 3-5 days.
11. She attempted suicide one time ,she took 30 sleeping pills and luckily she was out of danger after 1 day of hospitalization.

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[PearlsBefore]

All answers are to the best of my ability after midnight:

//Extreme Jealousy (We are well settled financially but still she is extremely  jealous when some one is doing good)

Not a particularly large marker, I mean yes we'll all say "omg, my wife is the same" but...there's a fine line on a gendered diagnosis like BPD/ASPD between what's normal and what's unique.

Extreme mood swings.Especially morning is worst.

Yes, especially if they can cool off as rapidly as they can light on fire, several times a day. BPD will typically also have euphoric "highs", whereas general anger-management types do not.

Extreme violent anger with Bad mouth.

Without knowing definition of violent, couldn't answer - cursing, not really - again yes they mostly all do it, but who doesn't especially among the mentally ill?

//No Empathy ( I can explain this accurately with recent events)

A difficult one, because technically the modern CBT/DBT analysis of BPD says that they're more empathetic than usual and feel others' pain as their own, etc...whereas older professionals say it's all fake.

//Threatening violently for divorce and taking away kid and all my money, but never takes a step to divorce.

Yes

//Never ever agrees she is wrong, even though she is wrong most of the time.

Nah, that's just marriage

//Don’t know how to relax and be stress free .Always something going on in her head and racing thoughts.

Yes, but could also be General Anxiety Disorder or similar issues

//Highly energetic and intelligent academically.

The energy yes, read a bit about Haltlose Personality Disorder - the intelligence not really, some are, most aren't.

//1. Never ever apologized from 6 years , she says all bad things in marriage is because of me and our family.Holding the grudge to this day and she is also not happy and ruining marriage.

Again, could just be an ugly marriage - but it's also common in BPD...but that doesn't mean it is BPD.

2. Extreme mood swings , silliest things will turn her to extreme anger. After that episode, she will be sad ,frustrated for more than 5 days and sometimes 10 days.(Holding on the same mood for days is what I say not normal)

Not really in what I've seen, 5-10 days would be the short end of bipolar shifts but the long end of BPD shifts

3. Extreme texting (several  nights in the span of 3 hours she texted me more than 1000 messages which is full of hatred, I have the messages saved). Why I don’t feel normal is if I don’t text back then she is super furious and she lashes out with more texts till I respond.This will go on for hours. Calling back to back during night time and in office hours for more than 3 hours.I can’t ignore her calls, she threatens she will call my colleagues or my family if I don’t pick up.

, no idea - I mean I've seen it but I always just chalked it up to the crazy. Got a voicemail once that was mad wailing without words, just a banshee wail...then it cuts off because she hit the time limit...next voicemail, ffs, she just dialled back to finish her wail .

5. Phone snooping, she always looks into my phone reads the texts what app, facebook and then starts fighting if she does not like me talking to someone like my nephews .

Again, yes it's common in dysfunctional marriages but I don't think the paranoia is exceptionally indicative of BPD

6. Even though , I apologize every-time  just to make her happy and relaxed ,it is very very hard to convince her even the simple things and her mood is sad for days . Until unless she calms down , I keep quiet.

"Walking on eggshells" is a common term here, and the name of the gateway book.

7. This mood swings happens at-least twice in a week from 5 years and she is mostly in normal mood for 3-5 days in a month. That is the happy time for us , but there is no immense joy sharing , she is just in good mood that’s all.

Again I'm leaning towards not-BPD from this description; not sure what it is, but you might have escaped the curse of BPD.

8. Disturbed sleep , once she wakes up or some slight sound , she won’t go back to bed after that.

Haven't heard of it attached to BPD, not commonly mentioned here.

9. She has told I LOVE YOU may be 5 times in 10 years of marriage . She can’t express her love in any any way.She cooks promptly and never misses her work .She is energetic.

Quite the opposite in BPD I think, you'll get 400 "I love you SO MUCH" in a week, and 340 "YOU ARE SATAN", etc.

10. Why I call her anger extreme : Hitting her own head with her hands for more than 1-2 mins while moving her body continuously like swirling and rounding   ,along with this  shouting at the peak of her voice and crying. I have never seen anyone doing like this . This has happened atleast once in a week for more than 5 years .After this her mood is so violent , she cannot be approached for more than 3-5 days.

This sounds like classic BPD-fits, yes - not sure if they're also in other related disorders quite the same. Usually wouldn't take 3-5 days to calm down, just until the next ice cream truck or TV episode comes on though - but your description of the fit is pretty spot-on.

11. She attempted suicide one time ,she took 30 sleeping pills and luckily she was out of danger after 1 day of hospitalization.

Definitely common in BPD, though only once in five years is impressive - as terrible as it sounds to say that.


On the whole I'd lean towards not-BPD, but definitely in need of some psychiatric help especially for those self-destructive fits and such. One key thing that's missing is that BPDs tend to pathologically lack a sense of identity -so they flirt between extremes, they're goth for a month, then they're knitting grannies, then they're bisexual, then they're a furrie, then they are vegan, etc.

Obviously I'm not a doctor, but alprazolam worked wonders on those self-harm fits of of melodrama; it'd take a few minutes to kick in, but if you could get her to take them BEFORE the worst happened, it helped ease things. I know it's not precribed as much anymore due to fears of addiction, but in my experience Buspirone just wasn't the same.

[kbpdspouse]

Thanks a ton  .

Your answers gave some me more clarity and also removed the confusion for many questions.

Thank you very much.

I also wish I have ugly marriage than my wife having BPD.

I need to mention some more things which I have carefully thought what is happening .Please understand that it is very difficult for me to tell and note down as myself confused is it because of me or is it my wife cannot take things lightly.

I don’t see any hope that her behavior will change even though I surrender completely , That’s what worries me .

Can you please clarify on the below questions . This will make my life easy and I can take next step in marriage for moving  in correct directions like family therapy if nothing is BPD symptom .

Then it is purely two incompatible people married and we need to deal with it  . Again thanks for your time and I would like stress again that I am trying to understand our marriage here .

1. I am afraid most of the time from 3 years, I have molded myself and let go most important things in life and just go through her moods .(this is extremely important for me to understand) I don’t care if someone NUKEs , I just want her to be in good mood or else I am not able to control her anger and I am afraid most of the time .I am trying to put deep thought here because for me I don’t take things seriously. If she scolds and then be alright for atleast 1 week ,I forget .In her case she has decided that things has to be in her way only weather is good or bad. I am not understanding is it sick mind or arrogance or deep fear.

2. She mostly don’t discuss and goes to argument mode and I know she scolds or yells at me very badly.If it once in a while , I would never worry but it is happening daily basis.She kind of feels relaxed when I become submissive and give up .

3. In the above process ,she never understands what kind of effect I go through .Also after 3 days ,she cooks two dishes and be very cheerful as if nothing happened.

4. Her childhood is bit mess, they are joint family and her father is drunkard . Mostly she was taken care by her mother and her fathers brother .

5. She lived in that environment for around 20 years and she always used to complain about how their uncles wife used to treat her mother badly .She hates them to core.

6. Sudden switch in thoughts while angry ,no connection between the topics.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Having a BPD diagnosis feels like it opens the doorway to finding tools to deal with our loved one, and I understand you asking if she fits BPD or not. But know that : those tools will work, no matter if she is, or not, BPD. And also that BPD is a spectrum, no two pwBPD are alike.

What I mean is, she could be BPD, like she could be NPD, like she could be something else entirely... But what I read here is you are exhausted and looking for help in managing the relationship, am I wrong here?

Did you browse a little bit on the website? Reading about boundaries, not using JADE when talking (Justifying, arguing, defending, explaining), but rather to be gently assertive and talking about ourselves, our feelings and our needs.

That your wife is BPD or not, in the end, won't change things, but if you feel it helps for you to put an etiquette on her behaviors, if only to help you find ressources in managing her outbursts better, then I personnally think it is ok to do so... But only a professional therapist that would meet your wife could really clarify if she has a PD or not, and what type if she does.

[Riv3rW0lf]

A difficult one, because technically the modern CBT/DBT analysis of BPD says that they're more empathetic than usual and feel others' pain as their own, etc...whereas older professionals say it's all fake.

I have a lot of trouble believing this. I don't see how anyone who can truly feels what someone else is feeling could do what they do and keep doing it. If you have empathy, if you can realize you are actually hurting someone else : you will change over time, you will try to stop the behavior that is hurtful to others, unless you actually like hurting them.

Seeing how my mother thought it ok to disown me because I stood my ground, how she hurt me physically when I was a young child, how she scared me to death and screamed at me so strongly that I would remain silent in a corner of a room for hours on end. I HIGHLY doubt she has more empathy than the general population. I don't see how someone with empathy could hurt a child like that and never apologize for it, and above all, to see the child as the abuser. Unless they like it, which is even worst.

[PearlsBefore]

I have a lot of trouble believing this. I don't see how anyone who can truly feels what someone else is feeling could do what they do and keep doing it. If you have empathy, if you can realize you are actually hurting someone else : you will change over time, you will try to stop the behavior that is hurtful to others, unless you actually like hurting them.

I should point out that DBT is literally created by a high-functioning pwBPD herself - Marsha Linehan - so while her ideas do often bear fruit on how to help a pwBPD feel validated, etc...I am sorry to see so many people adopt her position on the actual psychiatry behind BPD so easily. Like you, I tend to be skeptical. Older authors still tend to appear truest to me, in dealing with loved ones with mental illness - feelings be damned, unfortunately.

[Turkish]

A recovered pwBPD put it like this (paraphrasing): "my feelings are invalid and worthless; therefore, I'm worthless and unworthy of being loved."

Hearing this was like a light bulb to me and explained so many things deeper that what I perceived as "narcissistic" (an overused term) behaviors.

My ex told me once that she just "wanted everyone else to feel her pain" when triggered. Hard for us to see when the triggers to us might seem innocuous or even stupid.

We have a top level article on BPD.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

And
https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder




PwBPD are emotionally raw and often unable to control their emotions ("lack of executive control"). As such, empathy does seem to fly out the window, and it doesn't often Manifest only when they are obviously angry.

[Riv3rW0lf]

PwBPD are emotionally raw and often unable to control their emotions ("lack of executive control"). As such, empathy does seem to fly out the window, and it doesn't often Manifest only when they are obviously angry.

See, that's another thing I have trouble believing. I've been hearing that too, from my therapist as well: "they are raw, it's like they are walking around without skin, they feel more. " And loads of pwBPD write that about themselves online all the time, "I have so much empathy, I hurt more than others".

I highly doubt that. The control part, sure, but the feeling more, absolutely not.

No one knows how anyone but themself feels. No one is in my body and my head, and I am not in anyone else's body and head. The fact that I am controlling myself does not, in any way, means I feel less than someone else, or that they feel more than I do. We all hurt. And I have hurt really bad before (to the point of sweating blood, real emotional attacks), and yet, I never lashed on others, and I don't abuse others to make them feel my pain.

I just don't believe they hurt more than we do and I have no idea how anyone could even come to believe this and even less so to prove it. What is clear to my eyes though is that they lack the self control.

I am done pitying abusers, especially when they abuse children. They have to take responsibility at some point, and "feeling more" is a really bad excuse that does not even make sense.

[Dad.Co-Parenting]

A difficult one, because technically the modern CBT/DBT analysis of BPD says that they're more empathetic than usual and feel others' pain as their own, etc...whereas older professionals say it's all fake.

I have a lot of trouble believing this. I don't see how anyone who can truly feels what someone else is feeling could do what they do and keep doing it. If you have empathy, if you can realize you are actually hurting someone else : you will change over time, you will try to stop the behavior that is hurtful to others, unless you actually like hurting them.

Seeing how my mother thought it ok to disown me because I stood my ground, how she hurt me physically when I was a young child, how she scared me to death and screamed at me so strongly that I would remain silent in a corner of a room for hours on end. I HIGHLY doubt she has more empathy than the general population. I don't see how someone with empathy could hurt a child like that and never apologize for it, and above all, to see the child as the abuser. Unless they like it, which is even worst.

They are more empathetic to strangers or others if they are not in a dissociative state. If my unBPDsogf is feeling good and we meet someone. She can size them up in a second. She almost has esp in reading people.

If she is in a panic or fearful state she will act out in a lot of the way described above. Usually there is some non sensicle stressor bothering her that I have not detected yet driving all kinds of out of context behaviour. 

I think there is some confusion here. My unBPDsogf will also almost never apologize either. She seems in capable of realizing a head of time how something might mess me up. She doesn’t try to mess me up unless she is off her rocker. She does remember boundaries and tries to follow them. Sometimes she partly forgets them? She will even remember them in the middle of an episode sometimes and battles her self out loud to get on the right side of what we have agreed acceptable behaviour.

Good luck sorting this out. Keep posting and reading.

[Riv3rW0lf]

They are more empathetic to strangers or others if they are not in a dissociative state. If my unBPDsogf is feeling good and we meet someone. She can size them up in a second. She almost has esp in reading people.

This is actually an innate skill most of us have, and that some can specialize in. Reading people.

Example, take an investigator or good police officer, not a BPD, not even highly sensitive, but when someone comes into a room where he needs to interrogate them, he is amazing in getting confessions and information out of them because he is trained in sizing people up and befriending them, manipulating them toward giving him what he needs. A perfected innate skill.

Being borderline is a personality disorder that has nothing to do with being more empathetic or more able to size people up or more sensitive.  Maybe your wife can size people up easily, but it is not related to the disorder.

My mother is bordeline and she does not size people up easily, she projects things on them that sometimes do not even exist. She thinks she knows them, but it often is all her own projections. The issue is : she truly believes she knows what they think, when she doesn't. We only see so much about people through our own bias, and she lacks the self awareness and critical thinking to realize she doesn't really knows what they think and who they are.

And in all fairness, I see a lot of nons do too, I myself do it all the time and it takes a lot of effort for me to remember I don't really know. We all project ourselves unto others, often without realizing it, and it takes a lot of courage to admit we don't know what others really deeply think, unless they clearly communicate it.

Highly sensitive people, highly empathetic people, highly critical people, they all exist as non too...being borderline is something else, and the only thing I can clearly see is an incapacity of taking responsibility for their own action, feelings and words, and a lack of self control.

Now, are highly sensitive people more likely to develop the disorder? Maybe. But that doesn't mean they suffer more than us, nor that they are more empathetic than the general population.

[Riv3rW0lf]

And I am sorry if this all comes out as blunt or rude. Writing it all down actually helps me make sense of all my thoughts and deeper values. Not trying to insult anyone here, just trying to make sense out of all the information we have. Because nowadays, on internet, we can find every truths and their contrary, all based on "experts", and it is getting increasingly hard to discern what makes sense or doesn't, especially when we factor in our own experience bias and tendancy to extrapolate from it and assume it is a general rule and it isn't.

[kbpdspouse]

Thank you all for the help .I was finally able to convince my wife saying it might affect our child.
She went to psychiatrist and she is not relieving what doctor told but they have given
Depakote 250 mg ER once per day at night for mood
lorazepam 0.5 mg as needed for severe anxiety
I googled it and it points to bipolar.I wish she does not have but I need to speak to doctor next visit and check if it bipolar or they are also doing some trail and then later conclude.
If someone can share a thought on this , it will be helpful.

[Turkish]

Bi-polar and BPD are different things, but they can be mistaken for each other. More confusingly, they can be comorbid.

It's good news that she's open to taking meds. My ex was scared of them and refused to take mood stabilizers. I'd validate and support her choice. It isn't also a panacea like the star trek hypospray. My mom started on Prozac for her depression and she got worse before she got better, but it helped later.

[Dad.Co-Parenting]

They are more empathetic to strangers or others if they are not in a dissociative state. If my unBPDsogf is feeling good and we meet someone. She can size them up in a second. She almost has esp in reading people.

My bad to project.

I was being lazy and conflating BDP and C-PSTD.

Mine has both. When she is stressed out she looses her empathy and can't read people.     When she is in a good place she has heightened awareness of other people's mood and what kind of people they are. I expect that trauma as a child experienced from the hands of a parent helps one sharpen one's ability to detect mood and state of others.

Good to hear she was open to seeing a doctor.

Hope things cool off soon so you have some stability and get grounded.

Keep posting. We are all rooting for your family.

[kbpdspouse]

Yes ,she is open to medicine that is good part but she is not discussing what doctor told and asking me not to interfere.
This is again worrying thing,If they have given Depakote ,it is mostly bipolar and atleast I have to be informed as I stay with her full time with kid.

Is Depakote prescribed for any other illness.

This will help me understand what she is going through and I can mould myself and support her.

I am not sure why she is not revealing and does not want me to talk to her doctor also.From 2 years she did not want to visit psychiatrist and told I have mental issue.Now suddenly she does not want me to meet psychiatrist also .

Is it a protocol that psychiatrist should not reveal the condition of my wife to me also  if my wife has told them or Can I contact them and ask what is happening.

[kells76]

Hi kbpdspouse;

Is Depakote prescribed for any other illness.

The Mayo Clinic in the USA lists this info about uses of depakote:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs.sodium./drg-20072886?p=1

Looks like it is used to treat migraines, epilepsy, and the manic phase of bipolar. Other countries may use depakote for other issues, though, I don't know.

Hope that helps;

kells76

[Dad.Co-Parenting]

Hi kbpdspouse,

Is it a protocol that psychiatrist should not reveal the condition of my wife to me also  if my wife has told them or Can I contact them and ask what is happening.

Its normal for Dr to only speak with patient. Dr patient confidentiality means she has the right to privacy. This even applies to minors that can make it to the Dr on their own. The doctor will only break the confidentiality if the patient could hurt them selves or do harm to others.

The good part of this is that the patient can feel safe sharing all details. There is a lot of shame that can come it the picture here. Try respect her desire to control how this information is released. Its scary to share for some people the privacy factor helps get to the bottom of things faster. If she feels safe it will encourage her to stay engaged with the professionals.

Hope this is helpful,

[kbpdspouse]

Yes, you have a very good point. They can root cause very easily with this . Thanks for the suggestion.
5 years I did not have any idea what is happening.
I have hurt in  many ways because of this .At least now I am getting the picture.I wanted to know because it will heal my scars .

[15years]

But know that : those tools will work, no matter if she is, or not, BPD.

Just wanted to repeat this...

BPD, bipolar, ADHD, PTSD, whatever. The tools will even be of use in communication with people with no mental disorder (and that's a good space to practice the skills). Most importantly learning and connecting here through reading and writing could be of instant help to your own mental well being. Less anxiety, less self doubt, more self confidence, not feeling alone, and more...