BPD ex is making assumptions about me

[BPDAdviceNeeded]

I broke up with him on June 20th because he was wanting to do something that I didn't want to do. He attempted to scare me into doing it by saying "Yes, no, maybe" when I asked if he's talking to someone else who will do it. He wasn't but just wanting me to have anxiety over it so I'll be like "ok fine."

On June 22nd, he reached out to me saying he loves me so much and wants to know if I'll do that one thing or not so he doesn't have to feel guilty about moving on. That he's losing patience with me complying basically. I responded saying "you've been nothing but disrespectful to me and have mistreated me, I'm losing patience with that behavior of yours."

On June 25th, he reached out to me asking how I'm doing and to keep my head up (I lost my dad on June 5th and got hit by a drunk driver on June 20th, totaled my car). I didn't think he really cared, I just think he was trying to make conversation and see if I'd respond to him. I responded with "I'm doing good, thank you for asking."

On June 28th, he reached out to me again asking for the password to an account I created for him. I truly believe he had the password. He was logging into it every single day when we were together. I gave it to him anyways.

On July 3rd, I reached out to him telling him that I hope he has a great 4th of July weekend. I feel his attempts at reaching out to me were to try and see if I'll get anxious enough to reach out to him when he suddenly stops. Those few days between June 28th and July 3rd, I did get anxious wondering why he reached out every 3 days to nothing. He said he hopes I'm having a great 4th too, and I said "yes, I'm taking my mom to a firework show, what are you doing?" He ignored me.

On July 4th, he reached out to me asking if I'm ok because he heard there was a mass shooting near me (the mass shooting that happened in Highland Park, IL with that 22 year old). He then proceeded to say "I just got your message from last night, here's a screenshot for proof." The screenshot proved he lied, and got it the time I actually sent it . How embarrassing on his part. I did call him out on it and he sent me another screenshot sticking with his lie. He just was so deep in the lie, he couldn't even turn around.

June 6th, I reached out to him suggesting an app that helps him out financially since he's been struggling financially lately. He asked if I can help him set it up and I did.

June 7th, I reached out to him just making convo, nothing in relation to us. He was asking me what kind of car I'm getting next. I showed him. My last car was a muscle car so he said "yeah I know how much you loved your car and took care of it." He then said "lmfao I know someone else who suddenly likes muscle cars too." I'm like who? and he wouldn't say who. He said that it's crazy how they are suddenly posting photos of one of my dream cars on their facebook. Insinuating that I am talking to his friend behind his back just because his friend suddenly likes muscle cars too now. That hurt. I do not like anyone falsely accusing me of being this dirty. I said "well I'm not talking to any of your friends." He said "it's none of my business though. you can talk to anyone you want." I'm like "I'm not dirty." he said "no need to explain yourself." I couldn't believe that he had said this. One of his ex girlfriends did that.

Anyways, after reading my story, I'd appreciate some insight. What you may think is going through his head? His motive? His intentions? Translating all of this to help me better understand what he's trying to do here.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hi BPDAdviceNeeded;

So sorry for the loss of your dad. That was really recent. You've gone through a lot in such a short time 

What you may think is going through his head? His motive? His intentions? Translating all of this to help me better understand what he's trying to do here.

In a nutshell, you're seeing the tangible manifestation of his disorder.

His actions don't make sense... because he has disordered wiring in his brain.

He doesn't have the same "filter" for seeing things as "broadly normal" people, has harmfully intense and wildly varying emotions, and has responses and actions that don't seem to be "normal" or "helpful" things to do.

It doesn't make sense... because it doesn't make sense. It isn't rational. This is what this kind of mental illness looks like. In a way, something like schizophrenia might be easier to see -- like, Oh, he's shouting in the street that the aliens implanted a chip in his brain? OK, well, OBVIOUSLY his mind isn't well. With BPD, though, whatever one thinks of the name, it manifests on the border between "just" neurosis and the realm of psychosis. And that's where it gets tricky, and we find ourselves asking questions like you're asking. The stuff they do aaaallllmmmoossstt makes sense, yet keeps dipping into psychosis-type territory.

...

A bigger question in all this might be --

what do you want?

[BPDAdviceNeeded]

The things I want, I know he is emotionally incapable of giving me. That right there hurts a lot because I love this man more than anything. I'm a very patient person, and I do not have an issue with supporting him through this illness. I know I can't fix it for him, and I know he may not be able to fix it himself either.

However, I do know that I can provide love, and understanding because I try my best to understand so I can better approach the situation as best as possible. My approach, no matter how perfect it may be, may not work anyways but I do know that I am being myself, my true caring self and sometimes that's what hurt/ill people need.

The things I struggle with the most aren't when he's gone ballistic on me, I know how to handle those situations. The part I'm struggling with is when he leaves me because I'm afraid "this time he's gone for good." And I'm always shocked to know that he wasn't gone for good. He ended up coming back every single time he's left. The longest time he's left was a month, and I actually reached out to him, and he came back.

This time it seems like it's just both of us reaching out every few days asking how we're doing. I can tell there are still feelings there between the both of us but I do not know how to get him back without losing value in myself. And what I mean by that, is I know sometimes he wants me to chase him and beg for him because he has mentioned one time "you don't care for me, you'd just let me go." I can't continue to beg, I look very cheap doing that. But I also know he's ill and maybe he doesn't view me as cheap if I were to do that, maybe he'd view me as normal if I were to do that because it'll make him feel loved and cared for. I'm stuck.

With that being said, am I ready for this to be over for good? No, I'm not. So how do I approach this situation?
Do I give him space and wait on him to reach out to him?
Or do I continue to check on him every now and then until he comes back?

[kells76]

Hey again BPDAN;

The things I want, I know he is emotionally incapable of giving me

That seems like a pretty important realization to have. It's fine to have things you want and need in a relationship, and it's fine that others may or may not share your priorities. Only you can decide what's a "nice to have" versus a "need to have".

You may have seen some posts on here making the analogy that BPD is like an emotional disability. We wouldn't expect someone who uses a wheelchair, for example, to be able to do certain things. If one of our "need to have's" in the relationship is "I need someone who can carry me around and who could run to rescue me if I were in trouble", then we would need to be realistic about "well, I can be in a relationship with this person, but I would need to let go of this need, or, if I decide for myself that this need is not negotiable, then I cannot be in this relationship".

Another way in which the disability analogy works is that it isn't like having the flu or feeling upset. It isn't something that the person can "get over". It's a lifelong condition to be managed. Just like loving someone who uses a wheelchair doesn't make their legs work again, no matter how much extra love and support and cheerleading you give, loving someone with BPD doesn't help them get over the BPD. It's a fundamental brain wiring issue that some people can manage a little more successfully and others absolutely don't.

You recognize that he is not emotionally capable of giving you the things you want. He is emotionally disabled, and it's up to him the level at which he manages his condition.

That being said, it's not that there's nothing you can do. I'm curious if you've seen this article here yet?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

There are members here who have made longer term relationships with a pwBPD work (you can look up posts from formflier and thankful person). It typically takes radical acceptance that the pwBPD is who they are and isn't likely to initiate change from their inside. For change to possibly happen in the relationship, it takes self work by the other partner, occupying the "emotional leader" role, and an acceptance that this is not going to be an "emotionally standard" relationship. Choosing to be with a pwBPD means choosing to be with someone who, like you mentioned, isn't capable of being an emotionally stable, giving, supportive partner. It's something you can choose if you want, though it's important to go into it (or back into it) with eyes open about what it'll mean.

...

I do not know how to get him back without losing value in myself.

It's good that you're recognizing that things you may have done in the past, or things that could be options, to "get him back", have come at a cost to your self worth, and you do not want to do that again.

Like we were talking about above, the only change can come from you. Weirdly, some pwBPD respond "better" to "firm assertiveness" and a "show of emotional strength" from the partner. Often pwBPD live an emotionally chaotic and low-boundary life, so having someone stable, reliable, and boundaried can externally provide a sense of stability, even though the pwBPD may react against it at the time.

Working on yourself, building up your sense of self inside of you, reviewing the article above about "what it takes", and accepting that it may take some non-intuitive skills and tools may be what it takes to have a healthier, or at least "less unhealthy" retry at the relationship. This may feel uncomfortable to you, as it is different.

...

With that being said, am I ready for this to be over for good? No, I'm not.

OK, it's good that you can be clear about what you want.

So how do I approach this situation?

Exactly. You want to be in the relationship, and at the same time you know he is "emotionally disabled".

One question would be: what are your specific "deal breakers" so that you would know when it's unworkable? If we aren't clear and specific about our boundaries (what we are OK with having in our lives -- not the same as ultimatums), we can find ourselves "making one more exception" or "trying one more time" and, like you said, losing our self worth in the process. So I wonder what you would list out as "OK, I know he isn't capable of ABC, so I will not expect ABC. That being said, if he does DEF after one clear conversation with one clear email followup that I don't accept DEF, then I will choose to end the relationship"

Do I give him space and wait on him to reach out to him? Or do I continue to check on him every now and then until he comes back?

In the past, have you typically done the "checking in" dynamic? How has that gone, especially in relation to your sense of self-value, and if you were to rate the "effectiveness" of it, what would it be?

[BPDAdviceNeeded]

I've done both. In the beginning when he'd start to leave me, I would let him leave and he'd come back.

After he's realized that I'd come back no matter what, he started to stretch it out a bit. I'd have to be the one to reach out, and he'd come back.

So really, both ways have been effective. This time I believe he reached out to him because I seemed to be done. I wouldn't reach out for anything. But the more he reached out to me, it caused me to want to reach out and I think that was his plan all along. It worked .

[kells76]

Is the leaving/coming back/"who reaches out first" cycle workable for you long term? I.e., if nothing changed in the dynamic between you two, would that be OK with you?

[BPDAdviceNeeded]

That's a hard question to answer but I will tell you how I've felt when I've cut off all contact and when I haven't.

When I cut off all contact, I view my future as a peaceful one. I start to become more goal oriented, wanting better for my life, no longer having to take anti-anxiety medication, allowing myself to grow and become excited over knowing that I may finally be healing that trauma bond within me or at least on my way there.

When I don't reach out at all, but keep communication open by refusing to block him, I'm off medication but I will emotionally eat, putting on so much weight. Him reaching out pulls me back in, and becoming anxious when wondering when's the next time I'll receive another text message. I start to feel like I can't live without him. I start to think of the cute memories together and avoid wanting to think about the bad.

However, although I know that cutting off all contact will get me to a really good point in my life, I'm finding it hard to part ways again. Him reaching out to me has really put a strain on me. It's caused me to feel stuck and like I can't live without him. I don't want him to leave, I want him back. I want to be our goofy selves again. I want us to be cute with each other, and laugh like we did. But I do have my moments where I can't forgive him for leaving me when I needed him the most.

Knowing I lost my dad and got hit by a drunk driver but choosing to accuse me of talking to his friend behind his back when all I'm thinking about is how I wish my dad was here again, and how much I've lost. I've even set up a gofundme and he never donated. But when his mom was sick and passed, I donated and even offered to pay for the flower arrangements at the funeral. I've even had a portrait drawn by someone in Ukraine of him and his mother because he never had a photo with her before.

It's just one big slap in the face. I never expect when I give but something about not supporting me at the least when I needed it, it doesn't sit right with me. I'm angry about it and I don't understand how someone can go on with their life and not feel guilty for that. Not feel like crap for it and make things right. Rather than reaching out to me asking how I'm doing once in a while just to see if I'll respond. Not even because of genuine sympathy. It hurts. A lot!

[kells76]

You notice that when you aren't in a relationship (or contact) with him, you see peace in your future, you want better for yourself, you have lower anxiety (if any), and you feel allowed to grow and change.

You also notice that when you're in a "gray area" with him (not reaching out, but not making a definitive choice to not have him in your life), you body is sending you a message through emotional eating. Your anxiety increases. You notice a belief (that can be analyzed and reality-checked) that you cannot live without him. You observe yourself, when you're in the "gray area", amplifying the good times you had, and avoiding the bad memories.

However, although I know that cutting off all contact will get me to a really good point in my life, I'm finding it hard to part ways again.

OK, I think that makes sense. Is it that intellectually you know it would be better to be done, yet emotionally you find it difficult?

It's caused me to feel stuck and like I can't live without him. I don't want him to leave, I want him back. I want to be our goofy selves again. I want us to be cute with each other, and laugh like we did. But I do have my moments where I can't forgive him for leaving me when I needed him the most.

There's a way you guys were together, perhaps nearer to the start of the relationship, that you really liked and would want back.

The tricky thing with BPD is that it's a package deal. The cute, goofy, sweet him isn't the "real" him that is sometimes "taken over" by the "bad, not really" him. It's all him -- the loving, caring parts, at the same time as the cold, cruel, selfish parts.

If you were to learn that it isn't possible to "go back to how it was" with "mostly" or "all" the good parts -- that a relationship with a pwBPD will inevitably be a mix of all aspects of their behavior and personality -- I wonder what you would do?

...

Knowing I lost my dad and got hit by a drunk driver but choosing to accuse me of talking to his friend behind his back when all I'm thinking about is how I wish my dad was here again, and how much I've lost. I've even set up a gofundme and he never donated. But when his mom was sick and passed, I donated and even offered to pay for the flower arrangements at the funeral. I've even had a portrait drawn by someone in Ukraine of him and his mother because he never had a photo with her before.

It's just one big slap in the face. I never expect when I give but something about not supporting me at the least when I needed it, it doesn't sit right with me. I'm angry about it and I don't understand how someone can go on with their life and not feel guilty for that. Not feel like crap for it and make things right. Rather than reaching out to me asking how I'm doing once in a while just to see if I'll respond. Not even because of genuine sympathy. It hurts. A lot!

There is a part of you that is understandably pretty angry and hurt about the choices he's made, and it's speaking up loud and clear here.

...

Now that you know that he is all of the above, I wonder how you'd have those parts of yourself talk to each other -- there's a part that has a belief like you can't live without him, and there's a part that's indignant at being treated so poorly.

Thoughts?

[BPDAdviceNeeded]

You notice that when you aren't in a relationship (or contact) with him, you see peace in your future, you want better for yourself, you have lower anxiety (if any), and you feel allowed to grow and change.

Exactly! I know I deserve better, and I know I don't deserve to live with anxiety for the rest of my life. It's hard though because I love him so much and I am also willing to be there for him through this illness.

You also notice that when you're in a "gray area" with him (not reaching out, but not making a definitive choice to not have him in your life), you body is sending you a message through emotional eating. Your anxiety increases. You notice a belief (that can be analyzed and reality-checked) that you cannot live without him. You observe yourself, when you're in the "gray area", amplifying the good times you had, and avoiding the bad memories.

OK, I think that makes sense. Is it that intellectually you know it would be better to be done, yet emotionally you find it difficult?

Yes, exactly!

There's a way you guys were together, perhaps nearer to the start of the relationship, that you really liked and would want back.

The tricky thing with BPD is that it's a package deal. The cute, goofy, sweet him isn't the "real" him that is sometimes "taken over" by the "bad, not really" him. It's all him -- the loving, caring parts, at the same time as the cold, cruel, selfish parts.

If you were to learn that it isn't possible to "go back to how it was" with "mostly" or "all" the good parts -- that a relationship with a pwBPD will inevitably be a mix of all aspects of their behavior and personality -- I wonder what you would do?

Yes, it is a package deal. You're 100% right. I'm accepting of that package deal. I know what this all entails, I just want him back and idk how to get him back. Idk whether to wait for him to reach out or if I should continue to reach out.
...

There is a part of you that is understandably pretty angry and hurt about the choices he's made, and it's speaking up loud and clear here.

I'm very angry about that. It kills me slowly on the inside.
...

Now that you know that he is all of the above, I wonder how you'd have those parts of yourself talk to each other -- there's a part that has a belief like you can't live without him, and there's a part that's indignant at being treated so poorly.

Thoughts?

I really don't know. My anxiety is creeping up right now because I just want him to come back. I want to love him, I don't want to hurt him. I want him to understand it's safe here. He doesn't have to treat me poorly at times. I will comfort him as much as I can. 

[kells76]

When you're in that place of wanting to reverse a breakup, there can be a lot of urgency, a lot of feelings of "how can it be fixed now", maybe.

There may also be feelings of heightened import of choices, texts, "did he block me" -- everything feels so much more weighty and like it carries so much more meaning than it actually may.

Those feelings of urgency and weightiness can send us in a direction that seems normal -- we should reach out, we should do it soon, we should do it often to make sure, and it's really really important to use the right words about our love and the relationship.

Sometimes, for a pwBPD, those "broadly normal" moves can be experienced as -- too much of our neediness, too much engulfment.

So, the counterintuitive suggestion you may have read here is:

slow down, take a breath, keep it cool, don't be desperate, less is more (when it comes to words), and keep it low key.

"Slow down": when you feel that urge to text him right now to manage your anxiety, take a moment. Take a second. You did OK waiting ten seconds, right? How about 20? How about waiting 2 minutes? etc. When you give your mind and body time to calm down and regulate, you (a) have an experience where you see that the locus of control for your anxiety isn't him... it's you, and (b), you allow yourself to get back to a calm, regulated baseline, where your emotions and rationality can work together to look at the long term and make wise choices (instead of short term reactions). These relationships aren't decided based on whether you waited 18 more seconds to text, and if yours is, then you have a pretty serious question to ask yourself about if you want that kind of relationship.

"take a breath": Have you checked in with how your body is doing? Have you noticed your breathing lately? This is connected to the above thought -- allow yourself time to let your body and mind get back to baseline. Few people make wise long term relational choices when they're amped up and not paying attention to how their body feels. Let yourself regulate and re-integrate.

"keep it cool": You want to "radiate" calm, stable, "I'm ok". Not necessarily "rah rah I don't need you, I'm doing amazing" -- rather, vibes of "I'm just working on being a better me right now". You aren't desperate and begging, and you aren't "eff you, I don't need a man" etc. Balance... cool... chill.

"don't be desperate": again, kind of the same as above. Begging (whether in words or actions), as I think you have experienced, erodes your sense of self worth. It's OK to feel how you feel. The feelings aren't good or bad, they just are. We get to choose how we want to act on how we feel, and when we can "keep our hands on the wheel" and be intentional about "managing" our feelings, we often feel worthwhile, in control, like we have agency -- we retain our sense of value.

"less is more": a big one, so nutshell version is -- pwBPD aren't great at processing verbal/spoken/written words... as much as they may seem to be. It's the disorder, the filter. We believe, as "broadly normal" people, that if we can just "explain more", then "it'll all make sense" to him. That's rarely the case, as BPD isn't a disorder of "not enough information". Not sure if you've seen this article yet:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

briefly, it walks us through how to "make the target smaller" by declining to engage in Justifying, Arguing, Defending, or Explaining. Those aren't effective approaches with pwBPD. There's a TON to say about "less is more" but I need to leave it at that for now.

"keep it low key": we may have a belief that the only way to fix the breakup is to talk about the breakup. I would suggest, counterintuitively, that that isn't very effective with a pwBPD. Instead of trying to fix it with our words, we may need to demonstrate "what's different" with our choices and actions. Again, sorry, I'm at work so I have to keep this short, but the gist of it is that there's a big difference between hoping that "texting a lot about the relationship" will fix it, versus communicating about something else you are doing, and using that to get a read on how he's doing.

...

one way to summarize all that would be an example:

what we want to text might be like this:

"Babe, I love you SO much, and I totally support you! Please just let me know you're OK. I'll ALWAYS be here for you no matter what, if you just please talk to me; I believe we have something special and we can fix this, it doesn't have to be the end."

That's:

desperate, intense, about the relationship, letting the feelings drive the car, and pretty wordy.

What we might counterintuitively try could be like this:

"Hey babe... hope you're doing well. I'll be at painting class today, and I'll text you Saturday at 5pm unless I hear something different"

That's

calm and stable, still checking in, not about the relationship, stating what you will do (with a specific time you will do it) so that there are some "guardrails" up, allowing him to say Yes or No, not too wordy.

...

Any more thoughts? Seem workable, or not a good fit?

[BPDAdviceNeeded]

That was worded perfectly! Thank you so much for that. I learned a lot! I have definitely taken the desperate approach while we were together. The time he left me for a month, I sounded so desperate! Crying and going crazy to get my thoughts out. This time I am pretty laid back, and have not taken the desperate approach. I do not bring up our relationship at all. I keep it simple and sweet. I saved your message so I can refer back to it when I am feeling anxious. I appreciate you so much for taking the time to type that all out while you're at work. I, too, am at work and you've helped me calm down and focus on my work. Thank you! Thank you! 

[kells76]

So glad you can be at work and have that to focus on, and that you have found some tools and skills inside of you to manage your anxiety 

It's hard work, yet with a plan and some ideas of what to try and what not to try, it can really be do-able to take that anxiety from a 10 that rules our lives, back down to maybe a 4 -- it's still there, yet we can be ok with it and keep doing our day.

While the "keep it chill, work on yourself, keep it brief and light" advice isn't a "magic wand", it's a step in the right direction if you want to have a "less worse" relationship with a pwBPD. When you get better at managing your feelings and emotions, it can make a difference in the relationship dynamics.

It's kind of like that airplane advice: put on your own oxygen mask first, before trying to help others with theirs.

When we're taking care of ourselves and our feelings, then we're in a better place to stop making things worse and start making things a little healthier.

Enjoy that feeling of calm and relaxation!

Keep us posted with how things are going for you, whenever works.

kells76

[BPDAdviceNeeded]

Thanks again! I will definitely keep you updated.