Wondering how to make the most of a reconciliation

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi everyone. I’m glad the site is back, though I think it being down may have done me some good—I stopped obsessively reading forums for a few days and finally got through Splitting and SWOE and Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay.

Brief background: I became aware of my wife’s BPD—and my own years-long pattern of allowing my needs and boundaries to be trampled on—about three months ago. We have been teetering on the brink of divorce since then. My wife has a new T and just started DBT. She doesn’t have a diagnosis, and I don’t think she’d be capable of accepting one anytime soon, but she does claim to realize she has problems with anger and communication.

Here is my dilemma. If I were deciding whether to stay in the marriage I was in before, the decision would be easy: Hell no. But what I’m actually deciding is whether I believe in my wife to do enough work that I can have some peace and contentment and MAYBE feel, at some point in the future, that marriage 2.0 is working for me. Many of you have been here before, I know.

My wife is smart and highly driven (though I wonder now how much of that drive is in opposition to the negative BPD voices inside her—they tell her she’s a failure, so she works herself to death trying to prove them wrong). I have some hope that she can improve. The question is how much. And how much I can.

To that end, I am thinking of reconciling with her but using the opportunity to clearly state my needs and boundaries. Not as an ultimatum (“If you do X, I will leave you”) but as a personal line (“If you engage in these behaviors again, I will know that you don’t wish to remain married to me”). I assumed, like most people, that my spouse already knew that threatening false legal claims against me or berating me in front of our kid would kill our marriage, but I am realizing just how much needs to be spelled out if you’re going to be happy with your pwBPD.

Obviously I have to think of a way of doing this kindly, where it won’t feel like an attack, and where it’s framed as an expression of my belief in her. Anyone have advice? I thought of asking/suggesting that my wife make a list of her needs and boundaries too. “I want us both to go into this knowing exactly what’s expected of us” is the argument.

What would be ideal, in terms of my own serenity, would be to put it in an email and ask her to agree to it in writing. If/when she dysregulates and violates these boundaries, I want there to be no doubt in my mind that I was clear and did my best. I realize a paper trail won’t make a lick of difference to her when she’s in that state. And I realize that even with an email I’m still going to have to constantly enforce other, smaller boundaries and voice my needs clearly. I will need to work hard on these skills.

The reason I’ve arrived in this place, I think, is that I just don’t know whether I can love my wife. I don’t know that our love was ever real, and I don’t know who she truly is (because she doesn’t). I am hoping that some amount of time—three to six months, maybe?—will help me clarify at least some of this. I know that I have been out of love for a long time. And I suspect that deep down I am only still here because, until three months ago, I thought that staying was best for D3.

[flakjacket]

Hi everyone. I’m glad the site is back, though I think it being down may have done me some good—I stopped obsessively reading forums for a few days and finally got through Splitting and SWOE and Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay.

Brief background: I became aware of my wife’s BPD—and my own years-long pattern of allowing my needs and boundaries to be trampled on—about three months ago. We have been teetering on the brink of divorce since then. My wife has a new T and just started DBT. She doesn’t have a diagnosis, and I don’t think she’d be capable of accepting one anytime soon, but she does claim to realize she has problems with anger and communication.

Here is my dilemma. If I were deciding whether to stay in the marriage I was in before, the decision would be easy: Hell no. But what I’m actually deciding is whether I believe in my wife to do enough work that I can have some peace and contentment and MAYBE feel, at some point in the future, that marriage 2.0 is working for me. Many of you have been here before, I know.

My wife is smart and highly driven (though I wonder now how much of that drive is in opposition to the negative BPD voices inside her—they tell her she’s a failure, so she works herself to death trying to prove them wrong). I have some hope that she can improve. The question is how much. And how much I can.

To that end, I am thinking of reconciling with her but using the opportunity to clearly state my needs and boundaries. Not as an ultimatum (“If you do X, I will leave you”) but as a personal line (“If you engage in these behaviors again, I will know that you don’t wish to remain married to me”). I assumed, like most people, that my spouse already knew that threatening false legal claims against me or berating me in front of our kid would kill our marriage, but I am realizing just how much needs to be spelled out if you’re going to be happy with your pwBPD.

Obviously I have to think of a way of doing this kindly, where it won’t feel like an attack, and where it’s framed as an expression of my belief in her. Anyone have advice? I thought of asking/suggesting that my wife make a list of her needs and boundaries too. “I want us both to go into this knowing exactly what’s expected of us” is the argument.

What would be ideal, in terms of my own serenity, would be to put it in an email and ask her to agree to it in writing. If/when she dysregulates and violates these boundaries, I want there to be no doubt in my mind that I was clear and did my best. I realize a paper trail won’t make a lick of difference to her when she’s in that state. And I realize that even with an email I’m still going to have to constantly enforce other, smaller boundaries and voice my needs clearly. I will need to work hard on these skills.

The reason I’ve arrived in this place, I think, is that I just don’t know whether I can love my wife. I don’t know that our love was ever real, and I don’t know who she truly is (because she doesn’t). I am hoping that some amount of time—three to six months, maybe?—will help me clarify at least some of this. I know that I have been out of love for a long time. And I suspect that deep down I am only still here because, until three months ago, I thought that staying was best for D3.

[BigOof]

Obviously I have to think of a way of doing this kindly, where it won’t feel like an attack, and where it’s framed as an expression of my belief in her. Anyone have advice? I thought of asking/suggesting that my wife make a list of her needs and boundaries too. “I want us both to go into this knowing exactly what’s expected of us” is the argument.

A list is too derogatory. Maybe try a "marriage policy" where you both input three "policies." Print it out and put it up on the wall. Then in fights you can point at the policy and hopefully not get blamed.

[flakjacket]

Thanks, that’s a good thought. I definitely would have a found a word other than “list” when I suggested it, but still!

A policy seems less specific than what I had in mind, which might not be bad. But if my goal is basically to have her stop making a vast range of very different threats in order to control my behavior, what’s the policy or set of policies that will cover that without being derogatory? Could be: “I will act in accordance with my values and give my spouse space and time to do the same.” (But then she says she thought such-and-such WERE my values.) Or: “I will not make threats or exert emotional pressure against my spouse to obtain a desired outcome.” (But then she defines everything I do as a threat or form of pressure.)

I’ll give this some more thought. I keep having “creative solutions” like this that fall apart under scrutiny 

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi flak-

I think you may find yourself on really slippery ice here because from what I’ve read, pwBPD may experience some downward spirals at the beginning of DBT therapy.

Do you have a therapist who’s familiar with BPD behaviors who can perhaps help you with what you’re trying to accomplish here?  I do understand your goal... but maybe if I read through your history, I’ll get a better sense of where you are.

Bottom line for now... your boundaries represent YOUR values, and not necessarily “rules” to govern others.  Most pwBPD frequently don’t or won’t operate according to our “rules”, especially when dysregulated.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[zondolit]

flak,

I find myself in a similar place. I told my husband certain behaviors must change. In the category of finances, I gave specific amounts and dates to be met. I didn't say what will happen if these are not met.

One way of thinking of this is I am setting limits for my own well-being that are bigger than before because I've reached the point where I am willing to leave the marriage if necessary.

My husband can sense this and calls these "threats."

My therapist pointed out I've been put in a position where this is my option, and what an awful position for me to be in. That was helpful. It's not as if I haven't for years been trying to communicate my needs in other ways.

So the real change, for me, is that I've come to some clarity that I need x, y, and z to stay in the marriage, and I'm trying to communicate that to my husband as clearly and simply as possible. He may rail against this and call it what he will but I am doing what I need to do to save myself. The clarity, at least, feels good!