sexual question

[sudek]

Hello community. I hope this is a suitable forum for such an intimate question.In 2020, I got together with a girl who, according to my estimates, has a comorbidity of borderline and narcissistic disorders. My biggest problem that I can't cope with so far is sex with her. In lovebombing, she had a very high libido, but even then it didn't seem to me that she gave a great performance during sex, rather she constantly asked me to do it with my hand and sometimes sex. She was obsessed with my hand and constantly asked me to tell her what I was going to do with her. She had 50 strong orgasms in 2 days, I counted it myself. She had an orgasm several times without me touching her and it didn't seem like it was a game. Then after 2 weeks she cheated on me with an ex and everything changed since then. Her libido was getting smaller and smaller and the sex was in the style of just lying on top of the missionary and waiting for me. She kept cheating on me with an ex who boasted that she was the best lover he ever had. She was constantly giving him oral sex. She told me that she didn't like oral sex and during the whole time I had it 3 times and many times she just started and left me disgusted after a minute. I felt with like trash.
Once every 3 months, she returned to a strong libido for a few days and this pseudo relationship lasted a year and a half. After a month of relationship, she was not even officially a girlfriend with me, but when she was at my apartment she always said that we were in a relationship. I broke up with her for a year, but she found me again through a secret nick on Facebook and boasted that she had a new boyfriend, but broke up with him and I got into it again. She was with me 3 times and each time the sex was a total tragedy, but she insisted that I make her a child and since I was drunk, I agreed with her. Fortunately, she is not pregnant.Of course she was officially with that boyfriend of hers after that.
I have read a lot on the Internet about sex with narcissists and frontiersmen. Either it is a bomb or terrible or a combination. These people are said to not be able to stand intimate connection and it is true that I am very to kissing and gentle lovemaking. She really liked it when I stroked her all over body, but as soon as I started adding kisses and eye contacts, she often withdrew.
But I have never heard anywhere how it is with the partner's appearance. Among normal couples, it is important that one likes the other, and this important thing is never mentioned in people with personality disorders.
That's why I'm very interested in the question of what role appearance plays in sex with people with BPD? Because that's the main thing that bothered me, that I'm a disgusting ugly person for her. Could this be the main reason for her frequent reluctance to sleep with me?
It is also interesting that even in that strong libido, she preferred conversational fantasy and my hand, as if she was afraid to physically fully connect with me.
The psychologist told me that my main problem is that I can't accept when someone rejects me like that and that it doesn't matter if I find the real reason why she did it, but I should focus on understanding that I cannot please everyone with my appearance and that it is normal that I attract some and repel others. I guess I have co-dependency, so it's very difficult to learn to accept it. But I want to work on it in therapy.
Does anyone have a similar experience?

[PearlsBefore]

There is a high correlation between pwBPD and people who were sexually molested as children specifically by a parent figure. When a child is molested by someone they never see again, or see Thursdays at practice, or an occasionally-visiting relative it's not the same psychological damage that arises when it's somebody with whom the child lives. It leads to extremely complicated views of parent-child relation (not necessarily hate for that parent), and yes...extremely complicated views of sex. I think the idea of "having a very high libido" is not necessarily required but is not uncommon, and mixes with the "but has trouble with normal iterations"...I can't think of reading it in a study, but I've always worked from the assumption they're either trying to replicate what they had with their abuser, or they're trying to do anything except what they did with their abuser.

It doesn't mean every pwBPD should have their parents locked up, there's a high correlation but there's also a high correlation with false accusations and with living with an invented past back-story to try to explain their eccentricities. There are seemingly a lot of pwBPDs who had great parents and even great, healthy relationships with parents.

I'm confused by your reference to "frontiersmen", I don't think I've come across the term before and don't really understand the context you mean with it - would you mind explaining a bit?

[sudek]

I apologize, but I'm writing from google translate... By that word I meant borderline personality disorder...
She grew up with both parents...Her father is typically a narcissist who the whole village is afraid of...He has huge demands on her but at the same time he spoiled her a lot...she told me that he beat her a couple of times...But mostly expresses himself in superlatives about him...My mother also has certain statements about her father, that he is very good, but I know that she had a very difficult time with him as a child...
I don't think that he sexually abused her, although who knows, but there was definitely a high degree of emotional abuse and sometimes violently because he also drank a lot and that can have similar consequences... I remember her telling me a few times that I remind her of her father... The last time I asked her why she was withholding sex from me, she said that she was afraid of me... Mostly she makes embarrassing excuses like she had a headache or that she drank too much, etc... But with that fear, maybe it's true... It's hard to judge whether it's a conscious game that most psychopaths do or it's unconscious... When I met her after that year, she was also at my apartment with my friend... She pulled me into the room, locked the door, she said she likes me a lot and threw herself on me on the bed... After 15 seconds she withdrew and left me, saying she didn't want anything anymore..and then I forced her to have forced sex, where she just lay down and waited for the end... It seemed to me like a planned revenge so that she would come to destroy me again...
Yes, the reason may be the abuse, and it switches according to the situation, but I would be interested in why it is so bad just to me and she enjoys it so often with others? I am terribly sorry...Could it be because of my appearance? I don't think I look worse than her lovers, on the contrary, but that can be a subjective opinion... Or is it because I am too intimate and is she afraid to accept the love she didn't get and prefers to get involved with more violent, hard sex?

[succinite]

I apologize, but I'm writing from google translate... By that word I meant borderline personality disorder...
She grew up with both parents...Her father is typically a narcissist who the whole village is afraid of...He has huge demands on her but at the same time he spoiled her a lot...she told me that he beat her a couple of times...But mostly expresses himself in superlatives about him...My mother also has certain statements about her father, that he is very good, but I know that she had a very difficult time with him as a child...
I don't think that he sexually abused her, although who knows, but there was definitely a high degree of emotional abuse and sometimes violently because he also drank a lot and that can have similar consequences... I remember her telling me a few times that I remind her of her father... The last time I asked her why she was withholding sex from me, she said that she was afraid of me... Mostly she makes embarrassing excuses like she had a headache or that she drank too much, etc... But with that fear, maybe it's true... It's hard to judge whether it's a conscious game that most psychopaths do or it's unconscious... When I met her after that year, she was also at my apartment with my friend... She pulled me into the room, locked the door, she said she likes me a lot and threw herself on me on the bed... After 15 seconds she withdrew and left me, saying she didn't want anything anymore..and then I forced her to have forced sex, where she just lay down and waited for the end... It seemed to me like a planned revenge so that she would come to destroy me again...
Yes, the reason may be the abuse, and it switches according to the situation, but I would be interested in why it is so bad just to me and she enjoys it so often with others? I am terribly sorry...Could it be because of my appearance? I don't think I look worse than her lovers, on the contrary, but that can be a subjective opinion... Or is it because I am too intimate and is she afraid to accept the love she didn't get and prefers to get involved with more violent, hard sex?

You accuse her of being narcissistic and unempathetic, yet your own lines don't show any empathy. People don't develop this disorder without a reason. This is not an excuse for actual abusive behavior on the part of the person with BPD. But they should be treated with dignity and empathy like everyone else. It may be that they had a sheltered home but had negative experiences in a different context. In some form, the person was injured by someone in their immediate environment in a way that caused them to develop BPD.

Anyways. Nobody owes anyone s*x. If anybody doesn't want to engage in s*x it doesn't make them psychopathic. People with borderline personality disorder cause massive interpersonal damage through their behaviors and it's okay to talk and rant about this on this forum, but nevertheless, I would like to take a stand up for your ex girlfriend in this case. It's never okay to overstep another person's boundaries which is according to your text just what you've done. What you're describing is rape: She dissociated, told you to stop and you forced her. This is never legit. It's even illegal.
Everything else is secondary at this point.

[sudek]

Dear succinite.
As I wrote above, I'm not good at English, I'm writing through google translate and I didn't want to describe the sexual details in more detail, but ok...
It wasn't literally forced sex...She pulled me into the room, locked the door, said how she was suxually naughty at me, threw me on the bed, she started giving me oral sex for a few seconds, then she went on top of me, my most favorite sexual position, and since I told her that I like it the most, she never gave it to me, but always only for a few seconds, and that's what she did then...She let me lie on bed and when I started touching her she said I should stop...So I told her if I could at least go to the missionary position which I started to hate... She said no and I said if not she could go home and all the cigarettes and the alcohol I bought for her I take from her (by the way, she's a big alcoholic)...So after this "blackmail" she agreed to let me go to the missionary and just waited when I would be...That's why I called it forced sex, but it wasn't literally strength..There wasn't even any expected ending because after this "forced act" I lost my erection after a while.Even during the "forced" sex, she sighed excitedly loudly and always sighed excitedly during every sex... I absolutely don't understand why she did it always when it was often forcefully... Maybe with those sighs she wanted to excite me more so that I could finish as soon as possible.If this is criminal, I don't know...If she didn't agree and of course she defended herself that I didn't continue...I never beat her unlike all her other boyfriends..I was always very peaceful and I bought her everything she wanted...she didn't go to work and I supported her... Maybe the fact that she was afraid of me during sex is probably due to the fact that I subconsciously reminded her of her father.Maybe the fact that I was so peaceful and kind to her killed her attraction to me... Many times I wanted to pay her for therapy and I longed for in order for her to recover from her illness, I am asking you to evaluate my empathy and hers based on a brief description via google translate when you absolutely do not know us...I don't know if she is a psychopath, narcissist or BPD...As I write, I am only guessing her diagnosis and no I'm still not sure if she does it consciously or unconsciously... I also wrote that she developed it because of a difficult childhood with her father and I realize how her disorder developed... I no longer feel hatred for her like I used to... My contribution I just wanted to find out if anyone had a similar experience it is possible to find out the main reason for her actions, because of which I often thought about taking my own life
you cut from the topic what suits you... I quote, nobody owes anyone sex, if someone doesn't want to engage in sex, it doesn't mean that they are a psychopath... And that's fine, he's going to give me the best things he knows how to do she makes me hot and then it stops when I'm in it? it happened many times that she kicked my friends out of my apartment because she wants to have sex with me after many days... When they left and I started to grab her, she started screaming at me that I should leave her ...That's when I left her, for example...is it ok that she plays with me like this?
I hope I wrote it well with my English this time

[Riv3rW0lf]

So, there was a lot of mistranslations. The reasons Succinite called you out is because your previous post stated that you forced her to have intercourse with you... I am assuming you meant that this is what she said, but that your experience was different from that.  I am also assuming that calling her "psychopath" was a mistranslation, and that you meant "bordeline".

From what you are writing, and assuming there was no pressure on your part, you feel like she teases you, wants you, then she turns around and blame you for the intercourse, going as far as accusing you of raping her. But that with other men, she has no issues "giving herself".

I know one other person on this forum who has this kind of problem (being accused of rapes that didn't/don't happen) but I don't think no one could ever explain why the person with BPD acted this way. All this to say, it is a behavior that is not unheard of.

In the end, I don't think the reason for it matters though. It might be that she was sexually abused by someone closed to her, it might be that you look like this person, it might be that you unwillingly put pressure on her, it might be that she is playing games... It is incredibly hard to know exactly what goes on in the mind of a person with BPD.

Knowing the whys won't change the outcomes, it won't change what you observe.. the only thing you can change is yourself and your boundaries.

Maybe you simply should stop being intimate with this person, if it leads to anxiety for both of you. Sexual intercourse, intimity, should be something shared with respect for one another, a bond you share. If it isn't a positive experience, then why do you keep seeking it with her?

Maybe you could also start wondering why it is that you are so attracted to someone who don't truly want you, who teases you and then blames you for it. Does it play into some unconscious guilt you have yourself surrounding sexual intercourse? Maybe replaying rejection for yourself, a trauma you went through when you were younger maybe...

I would invite you to look within yourself, why YOU keep playing this "game" with her...

[sudek]

   I realize that because of my bad English and inaccurate explanation, succinit understood it differently than it really was... The statement that I do not respect her boundaries and commit the crime of rape offended me, but I understand on the other hand that it was probably a misunderstanding... .I used the word psychopath in the sentence that "it's hard to tell if it's a conscious game that most psychopaths play or it's unconscious " and I didnt write that it can be then personality disorder cluster B (NPD, BPD,...)in case it is unconscious.. Even in the first post I wrote that I was just guessing her diagnosis...
                        
     She doesn't accuse me of rape.. This word was only written by succinit... I don't remember that she ever used this word...She even said most of the time that it was a nice love-making and that she like sex with me, but it's a lie... I know what it looked like the first weeks and then...She stopped having orgasms and mostly slept with me only in the morning when I had to go buy her morning alcohol and I had to ask her for it many times...
   So the pressure was sometimes there but never physically but that's it that I begged her or accused that she was lying to me, that she like sex with me and verbally pressured her to ask why she is different in reality than what she says, and then there was also the days that she first teased me with oral sex (often on days when I wasn't showing any signs of being interested in sex) ... and when it excites me a lot, it stops... on such days I used "blackmail" that if it really ends, he can leave my apartment or something like that.
Or often she sent my friends home because she wanted to sex with me, which of course wasn't.But at the same time she kept telling me that sex with me is good,,, completely psycho..Once every 3 months for a couple of days she enjoyed it even with an orgasm...Maybe it's a coincidence but usually I always lost a few kilos then and that's why I asked if appearance is also important during sexual excitement for women with BPD...
   Once she played such a game that she would give me 5 missionaries she knew that I didn't like this position..She fantasized that when we get through the 5 ,that I would be can able to do everything with her what I love... It lasted about 2 hours together with breaks and she fell asleep after the fifth misionars during which she excitedly sighed very very loudly. When I asked the next day what was going to happen with the promised continuation, she didn't even want to hear...She loved the verbal sexual fantasy of what we would do, but then it never came to reality..She used hidden aggression, saying how she loved to change positions with her ex-boyfriends, how she had to have an orgasm every time, in what places, she simply did everything with them she didn't do with me, but when I she debated about it, so she claimed that it's wonderful with me even withou orgasm and that when she rejects me it's because of the alcohol..Once she told me drunk that she can have rich and pretty boyfriends but that she feels under them and she needs a guy who will under her... I don't know if this is a BPD symptom rather NPD but I guess she is suffering from each of these disorders a lot.She used hidden aggression of manipulation through her family and friends that for a while I started to think that I was retarded and that I looked like that anyway. those people They started talking and whispering about me because of her, and at that period I believed it was. Quite a stupid game for me and maybe she enjoyed that it she is on top of me... And yes, she said many times that she I look like her father, who probably traumatized her..
   Yes, this is exactly what the psychologist told me, that there could be countless reasons and we'll probably never come to an exact conclusion... And that I should focus on myself, on my reason why I'm dealing with it so terribly... And even if I came to the conclusion that it's not about my attractiveness I feel better, but the problem I carry from my childhood will still aremain with me and I can experience it again with my next partner...
   Are you asking why I keep looking for this positive experience with her? Because in the beginning I experienced a very strong connection with her, I have never experienced anything more beautiful in my life...We have the same names and many of the same parts of the body, the palm of the foot, and the shape, , many people said that we resemble each other... It seems to me as if we belong together... And she echoes this to me quite often...And the fact that sometimes the positive experience happens very exceptionally, it's not that it's just always terrible, that's what keeps me in hope...
   Another thing is that I am very sensitive when someone rejects me or if someone say that Im ugly... If 9 women say they Im pretty and one says I'm terrible, it will make me very sick... It's hard, but I'm glad I started going to therapy with a good psychologist I really like...
   So yes, it's time to look inside yourself, why I keep playing this game with her