The Newspaper

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

The other day, my BPD husband sat down at the dining room table where I was drinking my morning coffee and reading the newspaper.
“That’s mine” he said. 
I replied - “I know – see, your name is on it” and I close the paper and point to the address label.  Of course it is his.   
“Would you open up someone’s gift?” he sincerely asks.

I don't even know how to respond.  Can someone please elucidate for me how this is borderline behavior and an optimal way to respond?  I stopped reading it and pushed the newspaper in his direction.   

[johnsang]

The other day, my BPD husband sat down at the dining room table where I was drinking my morning coffee and reading the newspaper.
“That’s mine” he said. 
I replied - “I know – see, your name is on it” and I close the paper and point to the address label.  Of course it is his.   
“Would you open up someone’s gift?” he sincerely asks.

I don't even know how to respond.  Can someone please elucidate for me how this is borderline behavior and an optimal way to respond?  I stopped reading it and pushed the newspaper in his direction.   

[Notwendy]

Consider emotional maturity. An adult knows that if one member of the household gets the newspaper, it's for the household. It's absurd to expect each adult to get their own copy.

However, if a child sees that a sibling has played with their toy - they may have a meltdown. "brother touched my toy!" even though the sibling was just playing with it and nothing happened to it. We want siblings to learn to share toys but know that's a learning curve for them. Even so, they also want to have their own special toys they don't want to share and should have those too.

Well, you just touched his toy.

I think people in a household have different ideas about what is shared and what isn't. If there's a gallon of milk in the fridge- we assume that is for all family members to drink. It seems odd that each person would have their own carton of milk in a family. However, we would also not expect everyone to share personal items or take them without asking. These are boundaries and people figure these boundaries out.

I think pwBPD have different boundaries. I know that when visiting BPD mother, we don't dare touch anything of hers without asking permission. It feels humiliating to have to ask permission for things we don't regularly need to do so but assuming we can is risky. Even reading her newspaper might set her off. It's not an easy thing to do for the long run,  but it's possible you and your H are more like room mates than spouses in this sense when it comes to sharing. If he thinks the newspaper belongs to him- then he does.

I'd have done the same thing- leave the paper to him. Anything in his name, I'd probably assume to not use it or touch it. You may end up with more "his or her" things if you want your own. It may seem a bit crazy but just like when young siblings fight over a toy, it may be better that each has their own toy and buy two of them.

[Couper]

I'm a bit jaded these days so it's probably the wrong response, but I think I'd get a second newspaper subscription.  When he says it's a waste money, I'd say nope, it's money well spent.

Surely this is not the first time you have read his paper.  Why is he only saying something now?

[Notwendy]

I think I'd get my own too.

I also think it's a control issue for them. My BPD mother is  controlling about her possessions and I think this is part of her feeling of having to be in control herself. They may see their possessions as a means of maintaining control.

My BPD mother has even gotten upset if I put any trash in her outdoor can, even if it's taking out her trash. I don't stay with her when I visit- for a few reasons but one of them is that if I don't stay there, I don't have to be concerned about needing to use her possessions such as something in the kitchen. We are allowed to make a cup of coffee or tea in her kitchen but I don't dare touch her pots or pans.

Seems a bit strange to do things like this but - her house, her rules. Your H wants his newspaper to himself? Get your own or subscribe online and read it.

[Skip]

I think you handled it well.

If you feel you need your own newspaper, subscribe, but don't do it out of spite.

If you want to have fun with it, find an item in your home that you can claim as your "special gift" to be enjoyed only by you, like the toilet paper you purchased at the grocery.

[Notwendy]

Yes, reacting out of spite is acting on the drama triangle. You feel like a victim because he got upset over the newspaper. If you get your own "to show him" you then become persecutor, he will feel like a victim.

On the other hand, if you get your own paper because you see now that he has a boundary with his newspaper, then you are not reacting in spite but recognizing his boundary. Yes it's a bit strange but if it somehow matters to him, then let him have his own.

Or be humorous about it. One idea besides your own toilet paper is to special order something like pink toilet paper and just put it in the bathroom. If he says something then "It's mine. You can share it if you like" and just let him ponder. Unless he's abusive and best to not do this as he may over react in a dangerous way.

[Couper]

Why is it thought that they would not see humor as antagonistic?  In order for them to be able to laugh at the toilet paper gag, they would have to be able to laugh at themselves for what they started with the newspaper.  Only speaking from my own experience here, of course, but the second subscription and toilet paper both would set them off. 

That would be my wife's interpretation though, and that's her problem to deal with.  I'm not saying I'd order the second paper to be antagonistic, but I would do it to make a point of standing up for myself.  This is where it gets into that gray area of navigating their nonsense.  What a screwed up world that we even have to debate these things.  I sure do envy people that do not.

   

[Skip]

Valid point.

Humor only works if you pay to the other persons sense of humor. The target and the timing is everything.

That said, humor is a great tool.

[johnsang]

I'm not saying I'd order the second paper to be antagonistic, but I would do it to make a point of standing up for myself.  This is where it gets into that gray area of navigating their nonsense.  What a screwed up world that we even have to debate these things.  I sure do envy people that do not.

Couper, thank you for this.  I do want it to be known that I'm in the process of divorcing my husband, but your point is what keeps mulling in my mind about these sorts of encounters. 

How much does someone tolerate weird stuff like this?  I always felt like I had to do somersaults to navigate his behavior - and then if I didn't handle it well, I bear the consequences - I felt like I needed a PhD in psychology in order to manage what was coming at me!  How do you draw the line between a healthy, loving relationship and dysfunctional? When do you decide that you LOVE this person so you will hang in there, despite these things coming at you almost daily, and when do you decide that these acts are gaslighting and time to get out of there?  I know we all have to answer that for ourselves - and I answered for myself and feel relieved!

My own personal experience is that I didn't know where I stood, ever - I always felt like I was skating on ice and then another thing came my way and I had to skid in another direction - I was exhausted and my needs were never considered or met. We have only been separated for about a month - married for 20 years - and can I say - best month of my adult life - probably not an exaggeration.

Any insights into how other people more positively handle the behavior is super appreciated!

[maxsterling]

legally, in most places, things acquired during marriage belong to and are the responsibility of both partners,  no matter whose name is on it.  And then there are things that do belong to each partner, but are commonly used by both without question.  But at times my W will make things "mine" and "hers". 

A few things I have observed in my r/s:

If something is going wrong with a shared something, to her it always belongs to me:
"Tell your kids to behave!"
"your microwave is a piece of crap!"

She could easily say "our" or "the".  Saying "your" is intentional.  Part of that is her not wanting to be connected to something that is not working as a means of passing responsibility.  Part of it may be her making a point that she feels she does not have equal ownership over something.

Other times she makes a point that something is hers.  Usually money. 
"I went out and bought all this stuff for our family with my money." 
"I bought this for me."

I think this stems from W wanting to emphasize to me that she contributes, but also to assert that she is an independent person. 

Deeper down I think most of this has to do with enmeshment issues for pwBPD.  In the case of your H, he is probably not wanting to have things he shares with you - even something as benign as a newspaper. 

[Couper]

How do you draw the line between a healthy, loving relationship and dysfunctional? When do you decide that you LOVE this person so you will hang in there, despite these things coming at you almost daily, and when do you decide that these acts are gaslighting and time to get out of there?  I know we all have to answer that for ourselves - and I answered for myself and feel relieved!

For one, I think if you discover that they are conscious of what they are doing and they are doing it to deliberately screw with you, that makes a huge difference.  Everybody's situations will vary on that front, though.  I am glad that you found your answer.  I wouldn't have offered you a different one.

Any insights into how other people more positively handle the behavior is super appreciated!

Positive for who may be subjective, but here are two examples.  Remember, when my wife was going off her rocker one day, she once grumbled in a moment of truth, "Whenever somebody tells me to do something, I feel compelled to do the opposite".

At the end of the season last year she brings me a potted plant and says, "I don't know what to do with this.  Should I just set it in the garden somewhere or should I take it out of the pot and plant it in the flower bed?"  I said, "Just set it in the garden". 

"No, I'm going to take it out of the pot and plant it over here."  Old me would have said, "Why the hell did you just ask me in the first place?".  Now I just walk away and look for a private place to bang my head against the wall.

Also yard related, one she used to do repeatedly is come to me and say, "I can't dig a hole for this.  The ground it too hard.  I need you to do it." and she's standing there with a shovel that is flat on the end.  The kind that you use to scoop gravel off your concrete driveway or what have you.  I'd explain, "You need a pointy shovel.  Then even you could do it.  Go get me a pointy shovel and I'll dig the hole." 

"No, I want you to use this shovel."

And the list goes on...

[Couscous]

"Whenever somebody tells me to do something, I feel compelled to do the opposite".

Most people who had a controlling or invasive parent do this automatically to one extent or another. It’s actually quite remarkable that she is aware that she does this.

[ForeverDad]

She could easily say "our" or "the".  Saying "your" is intentional.

In my myriad of posts here I usually refer to my son as "ours".  I still do to this day.  Because it is true.  Sadly, but not my ex, once I was painted black, that sharedness ended.

Previously, before our son was born, she said our son's middle name should be my first name.  But a few years later, it was never a highlight in her memory.

This reminds me of our first and only session with the mediator at the beginning of our two year divorce process.

In my case we were ordered to have up to 3 mediation sessions.  At the first session we went through and agreed to all but a few material or financial issues.  We stalled on custody and a parenting schedule.  Ex was determined our son was "her" child, that's how things were in her native culture.  Factoid:  She was born and raised half her childhood in the state I resided in when I met her.  Mediator countered, "We're in the USA, not there."  (Another factoid, but I failed to mention it in the session:  Her mother let her father raise her two older brothers, her mother and the abuser SF raised her and her sister.  Well, I was the father of our male child, according to her parents' example then shouldn't I raise our son?)  Mediator saw we were at an impasse, ended the session and said "Come back when your positions change."  (We didn't go back.)  She didn't want to leave at the same time as me, still posturing as the fearful stbEx, so I stayed behind until she had driven away.  As she walked out the door the mediator commented to the air, "This woman has issues."  After one session.  Mediation failed as expected but at least I tried with good faith efforts.

[Notwendy]

Mostly the humor would not go over well with my BPD mother. Working on co-dependency helped me to be less emotionally reactive to her. One day she told me about a time my father did something that upset her and she wanted him to feel bad about that and rather than react to it, what came out of my mouth was a spontaneous " well you did a good job of that" and I started laughing. I assumed she'd get angry but instead she started laughing too.

This was different than the way I usually speak with her. I think it would be more typical for me to have been fearful to say anything or that I'd defend my father (triangle). Perhaps she assumed I was "taking her side". I don't see anything funny about how she treated my father- it was upsetting to see but somehow the way she told her story caused me to laugh and I was surprised she laughed back. This was a change from the usual drama where I'd get upset about that.

Perhaps it was the lack of fear and not walking on eggshells that she somehow sensed and she wasn't emotionally reactive to my response. I think people can sense that.

I think a response in retaliation for the newspaper would be seen as an affront. Probably better to not react at all. If you want your own newspaper, then get your own. Maybe there's some strange boundary thing with possessions. My mother keeps saying she wants to downsize but then won't let go of what she has. She's not a hoarder- quite the opposite- but her things are hers.

[maxsterling]

This situation reminds me a little of some things that couples normally share or do together, but I choose instead to get my own on my own time and consider that self care.

Example - she might want to eat dessert.  I will tell her I am full simply because I am exhausted from listening her to complain about this or that or plan for impossible futures or live in the past.  So I will choose to eat dessert later, on my own time, so that i could enjoy my food. 

In the case of a newspaper, I would probably just stop every morning and buy one of my own and read it at work.

[Zoa]

My ex husband thought the tv was his soi wasn’t allowed to use the remote control. Same for the stereo.  I never drove his car.  Even the vacuum cleaner so his.  I laughed every time he vacuumed.  It all is a matter of control like a young child- it’s mine you can’t have it.

[Protectourfamily]

My husband just told me "I don't let you drive the car anymore." (We are a one-car family.) Hmm ...