When will it end?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I haven't posted on here in a while...

A few years ago I was involved in a custody dispute with my BPDex, which dragged on for nearly 3 years. This experience left my relationship with my son very damaged and nearly caused me to go bankrupt due to legal fees.

I pay a significant amount of child support every month, but I barely hear from my son anymore, who just turned 18, except when he or his mother want more money. Potential visits are tied to money, or holidays where gifts are involved.

Now he's applying to university and is demanding access to my financial information. He speaks to me as though he is the parent and I am the child. Even though he has very affordable options, including a tuition waiver at the institution where I work, I suspect that he and his mother will opt for something that will maximize costs just to "make me pay." I am completely willing to contribute what I can, but I don't have unlimited resources.

I am disturbed at how much my son now replicates many of the BDP behaviors of his mom. He's no longer the kid I thought I knew. Going through this cycle of refused visits is soul crushing and I don't like being treated like an ATM. 

I don't know how to keep the door open to a relationship with him, while at the same time protecting my own mental health.

[Dionysius]

I haven't posted on here in a while...

A few years ago I was involved in a custody dispute with my BPDex, which dragged on for nearly 3 years. This experience left my relationship with my son very damaged and nearly caused me to go bankrupt due to legal fees.

I pay a significant amount of child support every month, but I barely hear from my son anymore, who just turned 18, except when he or his mother want more money. Potential visits are tied to money, or holidays where gifts are involved.

Now he's applying to university and is demanding access to my financial information. He speaks to me as though he is the parent and I am the child. Even though he has very affordable options, including a tuition waiver at the institution where I work, I suspect that he and his mother will opt for something that will maximize costs just to "make me pay." I am completely willing to contribute what I can, but I don't have unlimited resources.

I am disturbed at how much my son now replicates many of the BDP behaviors of his mom. He's no longer the kid I thought I knew. Going through this cycle of refused visits is soul crushing and I don't like being treated like an ATM. 

I don't know how to keep the door open to a relationship with him, while at the same time protecting my own mental health.

[ForeverDad]

Now that he's 18 and presumably has completed high school or will soon, will child support end at that point or is there a clause in the final decree or later where you are further obligated during the college years?

If this is only a financial status of parents for college options, perhaps your lawyer can guide you on the details.  One would hope there is some way for you to submit it directly to the agency or college(s) so your income remains confidential.

Are you thinking he or his mother will use it to try to claw back more money from the past?

[GaGrl]

The terms of your agreement post-secondary school will be important in how you respond. You may have no further obligation, or you may have a specific contribution you are committed to fulfill.

Depending on the level of your obligation, you can calculate what you are able to contribute, communicate that to your ex and son, and let that stand as your financial boundary.

[kells76]

Hi Dionysius, welcome back -- I guess we never really leave the Coparenting board, huh 

We are starting to ask similar questions: as DH is obligated to pay CS until the kids are either 21 and/or in college (I need to review the divorce decree), the question for us is whether we can pay the kids directly once they're over 18. My post is here, in case there are any replies that are helpful for you, too: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354592.0

I agree with FD and GaGrl, that the first step is to understand what you are legally obligated to do. If in your divorce decree and/or custody decree, it doesn't say to pay CS specifically to support college-age/up to 21yr kids, then I would suspect it ends at 18. If it is not clear, check with your L (an email or brief phone call should do, and won't cost that much -- you can phrase it as briefly as possible, like "According to my divorce decree, am I legally required to pay CS after my son is 18, and if so, is it to him or his mom, and for how long?)

Once you have that airtight info, the next steps should become clear. If it's not legally required, you can do as GaGrl suggests: let your son know "Hey, I have $XYZ in the budget per month for college for you. Do you want me to pay the college directly, or put it in an account for you?" That gives your son a genuine choice, without letting him dictate to you what's in your budget.

We may need to have a similar discussion with the kids soon -- that we'll have $XYZ per month for them while they're in college. If they choose to go to a more affordable school, then a greater percent is covered. If they don't, then they will need to figure out the difference.

In terms of your question here:

Now he's applying to university and is demanding access to my financial information. He speaks to me as though he is the parent and I am the child. Even though he has very affordable options, including a tuition waiver at the institution where I work, I suspect that he and his mother will opt for something that will maximize costs just to "make me pay." I am completely willing to contribute what I can, but I don't have unlimited resources.

you can talk to a few colleges, perhaps the place where you work, and ask them about their policies. For example, is there any difference between who provides the parent's financial info -- i.e., is it just as OK for the parent to provide it, as for the kid? Are there any special privacy policies or procedures for FAFSA/aid stuff for divorced parents contributing?

Also consider searching online for some kind of "example FAFSA" or "FAFSA estimator". I don't know if these exist, but if they do, and you can ballpark your son's mom's income, then you can put in that plus yours and see what you might be expected to provide.

It's so tricky planning for adult kids who are still kids, when the other parent is involved. Hope this gets you started.

[ForeverDad]

I think Dionysius is asking whether he is required to provide financial information and to whom, suspecting that the ex might attempt to use it against him.

In my case, no mention was made concerning college support.  The child support, if any, ended once he was 18 and had completed high school.  (He was living with me so it was a nonissue.)

Even if child support continues, one factor may be that if he doesn't continue living with his mother then it ought to end or be drastically reduced.

[Turkish]

You can fill out FAFSA on your own.  I'm not sure if your son will see the details.

[Dionysius]

Thank you everyone for the replies, but I think I wasn't very clear in my original message. It wasn't so much the financial specifics about his schooling, which will get sorted out, it's the fact that his willingness to come for scheduled visits is always being tied to money.

I want to keep the door open to our relationship, but I find it increasingly difficult to deal with his constant refusals and the sense that his mother is still trying to play games through him still at this age.

How much worse is it going to get until it gets better? If ever?

[ForeverDad]

If you appease him - or his mother - then likely you won't make much progress.  After all, so far the same old same old hasn't worked out so well, right?

Instead, now that your son is an adult, ponder how you can determine how to set your own priorities, even healthy boundaries.  Otherwise, although admittedly him noticing and responding positively may take years or even never happen, how else can you hope to be the father you ought to be?  Whether your son overcomes his mother's influence and appreciates you for who you are, you can always be the father you need to be.

[Notwendy]

I am not in a divorce situation, but I think a discussion of college finances before applying/attending colleges is important. Parents can find themselves in this "middle hole" where there's not a lot of financial aid awarded and the cost of tuition is too high. It's not "depriving your child" to look for affordable options and minimize debt- for you and for your child.

It seems you are in a place of resentment- and with good reason. You don't want to have a relationship based on giving your son money and this seems to be the case. I don't know what your divorce agreement is with your son past 18, but when we feel resentment, it's because we are doing too much, and the solution is, IMHO, for the Bank Of Dad to close and set a limit. Your son won't do it. Either he has issues like his mother, or, he's 18 and self centered and hasn't matured fully. I think there's fear that if you don't give him money, you won't see him at all, but he needs to have some investment in seeing you too, otherwise it is just financial.

I don't know all the rules for divorced parents but in the US, seeing this from some of my friends, their child's financial aid was determined on the custodial parent's FASFA. The college may not need yours at all, just his mother's. That would be something to find out. I don't think one needs to disclose any information directly to the child directly and you may not need to do the FAFSA at all.

I think you have good reason to be concerned that your ex and son may push for the most costly college, maybe not to "make you pay" but because of the need for self image that someone with BPD might be seeking. Finding the right college for a child is based on several factors, and cost is not insignificant.

You have the right to say no. That may be the hardest part but until you do, this situation will continue. It works for your son. He gets money when he does this and so, that does reinforce his behavior. Perhaps you feel badly limiting his college choices, as if you are to blame for limiting his future. You aren't doing that. If you have a tuition waver at your place of work, that is an amazing opportunity and you probably know students who have done just fine from that college. In every college, there are serious students and students who need some more time to mature. If your son has the drive to study and do well, he will do that at the college where he has a tuition waver and if he needs time to mature, he could underachieve even at the most competitive ones.

IMHO, it's time for the Bank Of Dad to limit what is offered to him. He gets a set amount. He can use that for additional expenses- books/fees, etc at the college where you have a waiver, and have his education almost fully paid for, or take out loans at the college of his choice. You set the limit.

Every college has an estimated total expenses that is available where you can see tuition, room, board, books, fees etc.  The tuition waver is a job benefit. You earned it- no sense in dismissing it. Offer him what you can cover towards the other expenses. If he wants to take on debt - do not co-sign any loans.

A lot of the benefit of college is what a student puts into it. They have to do the work, read the books, have the discipline to study. This is another contingency. Your support is dependent on your son being responsible with it. You shouldn't demand straight A's but you can make it contingent on him passing his classes to the best of his ability. He needs to be invested too, perhaps get a part time job. But he won't have the incentive to do that if there's no limit on the money he can get from you. Your goal for him is to be able to support himself one day. For this to happen, he needs limits on what you will give him.

He may very well get angry at you, and teens can do that. Sometimes they need to go off on their own at college and not contact parents a lot. That's a tough thing to go through but if he's invested at all in a relationship with you, he won't do this forever.

Students have privacy at college. For you to access their financial or academic information, they need to sign a waiver. Often they can choose to allow you access to grades, or finances, or both. Some students want their privacy with grades, and that's OK. If he doesn't pass he would not be able to maintain enrolment. I would at least insist on financial information- that way, you can pay the fees directly to the college and give him an expense allowance, rather than give all the money to him or his mother and you will know if he's still enrolled and what the costs are.