Divorcing after 13 Years

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi all,

I've been reading thru these forums for a couple of months now. I really appreciate all the posts everyone has contributed over the years -- even if they weren't addressed to me specifically, we all share some very similar stories and I've already been able to find a lot of support and validation "vicariously" if you will.

The situation:

My low functioning quiet / waif uBPDstbxw and my codependent / trauma bonded self have danced the dance for 13 years. We were both 21 when we got married.

I've suffered through at least four major affairs (defined as emotional + physical attachment for a prolonged period), probably half a dozen short-term hookups, the fallout from her uNPD mom's emotional incest, a false DV complaint, her disappearances, a time she was almost sucked into a human trafficking operation, and countless other betrayals and traumas.

For the first 8 years, I suffered completely in the dark with no framework to understand her actions.

Five years ago we hit a breaking point... Our son was 5 at the time, and she had an affair which I felt threatened his safety. I kicked her out, and she was homeless for a couple of weeks but then we recycled and entered into a wonderful 2 years of active therapy and recovery (technically she was being seen for sex addiction and me for codependency, but the tools used were very similar to what's needed for BPD and worked well).

The last three years were a slow decay. I would say we started "normal marital issues", compounded by a bit of apathy / getting too comfortable. I also had to work a ton more hours last fall/summer and got burned out, which triggered a strong sense of abandonment in my wife. I was treating her like a "normal" person thru it all, and what followed was an epic collapse / dysregulation.

For four months (from October onward) she became super withdrawn and lived a double-life in an ongoing, hidden LD affair. In February she went out of state for a couple of trips and the affair became physical but fell apart shortly thereafter. Within a week, she found a local replacement and I caught her. She then disappeared for 10 days (leaving me distraught and alone with my son and my full time job).

She tried to recycle with me a couple times in the last month, but I kept my boundaries. She was served divorce papers two days ago.

I am a Christian. My tale of salvation is inextricably linked to events that happened in the R/S. God used the dysfunction in powerful ways, to save my soul. I'd like to believe she was saved as well, but it could have been mirroring during a recycle.

I can't go on living through the cycle. I know this divorce is necessary for my self and for our S10.


The current problem:

I'm torn because over the last couple of months, I've read a bunch about BPD and recognize it in her. I feel like I could probably make things work by changing my own behaviors, now that I understand the underlying disorder. I feel like this is an illness that needs treatment, and that she's not such a bad person...

But all the reading came too late. I only researched BPD after she went off the deep end. Her most recent dysregulation was too brutal, too long-term, too damaging to me. And besides: those are just feelings. Her history shows she's unlikely to do the work for herself without a ton of support, and it's not realistic for me to always be her #1 advocate. I'm too co-dependent, too enmeshed, and too compromised to be an effective support.

There-in lies the guilt: I'm choosing to let go, knowing that she's not able to make it on her own. She painted her entire support network black. Even if she were committed and willing (as she once was), she is very low functioning and won't have any strong advocates in her life or the resources to seek effective counseling when the divorce is over.

It kills me because I know I've stuck around far too long, but I feel like I'm giving up too soon. Her infidelity broke our vows more times than I care to admit, and yet I still feel like I'm the one betraying her by casting her off to her fate without any real support. I keep telling myself that "I can't fix her, but God can, so I'm giving her over to God's care"... Then the FOG kicks in and I feel like that's just a hollow rationalization.

Truth be told, I wish we hadn't had two years of passable recovery. It gave me too much hope and showed me something close to what real, functional love can be... It showed me how much potential she has in a supportive environment, but it wasn't sustainable.

I'm committed to the divorce (already filed and served). I'm learning how to detach (hurts so bad!). Sharing a child makes it harder because I can't go full NC -- she still visits him periodically.

I'm in therapy. I go to Celebrate Recovery (Christian 12-step) twice a week. I'm working on the FOO issues that caused me to stay around so long... PTSD, anxiety, low self worth, porn addiction (just celebrated 4 months sober!). I'm working on becoming the "better me" that God wants me to be. I was pretty messed up when I entered the r/s, and I want to exit it on a good trajectory for personal growth and godliness. It sucks because these are the steps that would have allowed me to survive, had the relationship continued.

If I put it in question form: I'm deeply conflicted because I have a strong, Godly desire to see my wife healed from mental illness. That desire is tainted by my own abandonment fears and co-depencence. I've never been an "eye for an eye" kind of guy -- so how do I reconcile my desire to love and support her vs. my need to protect myself and my son from further heartbreak and insanity? How do I not feel like I've failed?

[ConflictedWalrus]

Hi all,

I've been reading thru these forums for a couple of months now. I really appreciate all the posts everyone has contributed over the years -- even if they weren't addressed to me specifically, we all share some very similar stories and I've already been able to find a lot of support and validation "vicariously" if you will.

The situation:

My low functioning quiet / waif uBPDstbxw and my codependent / trauma bonded self have danced the dance for 13 years. We were both 21 when we got married.

I've suffered through at least four major affairs (defined as emotional + physical attachment for a prolonged period), probably half a dozen short-term hookups, the fallout from her uNPD mom's emotional incest, a false DV complaint, her disappearances, a time she was almost sucked into a human trafficking operation, and countless other betrayals and traumas.

For the first 8 years, I suffered completely in the dark with no framework to understand her actions.

Five years ago we hit a breaking point... Our son was 5 at the time, and she had an affair which I felt threatened his safety. I kicked her out, and she was homeless for a couple of weeks but then we recycled and entered into a wonderful 2 years of active therapy and recovery (technically she was being seen for sex addiction and me for codependency, but the tools used were very similar to what's needed for BPD and worked well).

The last three years were a slow decay. I would say we started "normal marital issues", compounded by a bit of apathy / getting too comfortable. I also had to work a ton more hours last fall/summer and got burned out, which triggered a strong sense of abandonment in my wife. I was treating her like a "normal" person thru it all, and what followed was an epic collapse / dysregulation.

For four months (from October onward) she became super withdrawn and lived a double-life in an ongoing, hidden LD affair. In February she went out of state for a couple of trips and the affair became physical but fell apart shortly thereafter. Within a week, she found a local replacement and I caught her. She then disappeared for 10 days (leaving me distraught and alone with my son and my full time job).

She tried to recycle with me a couple times in the last month, but I kept my boundaries. She was served divorce papers two days ago.

I am a Christian. My tale of salvation is inextricably linked to events that happened in the R/S. God used the dysfunction in powerful ways, to save my soul. I'd like to believe she was saved as well, but it could have been mirroring during a recycle.

I can't go on living through the cycle. I know this divorce is necessary for my self and for our S10.


The current problem:

I'm torn because over the last couple of months, I've read a bunch about BPD and recognize it in her. I feel like I could probably make things work by changing my own behaviors, now that I understand the underlying disorder. I feel like this is an illness that needs treatment, and that she's not such a bad person...

But all the reading came too late. I only researched BPD after she went off the deep end. Her most recent dysregulation was too brutal, too long-term, too damaging to me. And besides: those are just feelings. Her history shows she's unlikely to do the work for herself without a ton of support, and it's not realistic for me to always be her #1 advocate. I'm too co-dependent, too enmeshed, and too compromised to be an effective support.

There-in lies the guilt: I'm choosing to let go, knowing that she's not able to make it on her own. She painted her entire support network black. Even if she were committed and willing (as she once was), she is very low functioning and won't have any strong advocates in her life or the resources to seek effective counseling when the divorce is over.

It kills me because I know I've stuck around far too long, but I feel like I'm giving up too soon. Her infidelity broke our vows more times than I care to admit, and yet I still feel like I'm the one betraying her by casting her off to her fate without any real support. I keep telling myself that "I can't fix her, but God can, so I'm giving her over to God's care"... Then the FOG kicks in and I feel like that's just a hollow rationalization.

Truth be told, I wish we hadn't had two years of passable recovery. It gave me too much hope and showed me something close to what real, functional love can be... It showed me how much potential she has in a supportive environment, but it wasn't sustainable.

I'm committed to the divorce (already filed and served). I'm learning how to detach (hurts so bad!). Sharing a child makes it harder because I can't go full NC -- she still visits him periodically.

I'm in therapy. I go to Celebrate Recovery (Christian 12-step) twice a week. I'm working on the FOO issues that caused me to stay around so long... PTSD, anxiety, low self worth, porn addiction (just celebrated 4 months sober!). I'm working on becoming the "better me" that God wants me to be. I was pretty messed up when I entered the r/s, and I want to exit it on a good trajectory for personal growth and godliness. It sucks because these are the steps that would have allowed me to survive, had the relationship continued.

If I put it in question form: I'm deeply conflicted because I have a strong, Godly desire to see my wife healed from mental illness. That desire is tainted by my own abandonment fears and co-depencence. I've never been an "eye for an eye" kind of guy -- so how do I reconcile my desire to love and support her vs. my need to protect myself and my son from further heartbreak and insanity? How do I not feel like I've failed?

[BurnedOnce]

If I put it in question form: I'm deeply conflicted because I have a strong, Godly desire to see my wife healed from mental illness. That desire is tainted by my own abandonment fears and co-depencence. I've never been an "eye for an eye" kind of guy -- so how do I reconcile my desire to love and support her vs. my need to protect myself and my son from further heartbreak and insanity? How do I not feel like I've failed?

Reading your story is very heart-wrenching to me because I am in a similar position with a similar story, although I keep dancing on the fence of filing divorce because things are complicated regarding our children. If no children were in the picture, I'm pretty sure I'd have long been a ghost to my wife by now.

I danced the dance for 22 years before she erupted and did things to both me and our children in a few alcohol-fueled rages that there may be no redemption for. I had to step up in the aftermath of that and kick her out with a restraining order but she went to AA and started seeing a therapist once a week and I wound up letting her back in. A few months down the pipe, she'd began starting up a new cycle of circular arguments, blame-shifting and then I caught her on a dating site but I wasn't able to use a protective order this time so I just packed my stuff up and left before the cycle could return to a state of rage.

We've recycled twice since then for a few weeks at a time and I keep thinking the same things you're thinking. I feel sorry for her and don't want her to be alone and heartbroken despite her many premeditated attempts to destroy me in every conceivable way. I want to think that being sober and in therapy will make a difference but I keep weighing that on "we've been here before".

We've been to marital therapy before, the therapist encouraged her to work on her issues so she got diagnosed and started treatment and things got pretty good for a year. It was like you said "the closest I've ever been to a functioning relationship". Then, eventually, she started spiraling and things came crashing down harder than they ever had before. I'm now stuck on "is she seriously not going to relapse this time or am I being a fool?" Which... My mind tells me that a 45 year old who's been behaving maladaptively all her life isn't going to simply find the discipline to break these destructive patterns at the drop of a hat. I know if I step into the ring for another round I'm going to get burnd again and it's going to be savage, no matter how long it takes.

You did what you had to do to protect yourself and your kid, you followed through. You can't save your wife no matter how much you might feel compelled to by your own codependency or by your good heart. The Lord brings people into our lives for a reason and he takes them from our lives for a reason. Some of them are here to stay a little longer than others and you know, these situations really hurt.

You're wiser, now. You know the red flags, you know what to avoid and if you're anything like the rest of us who've dealt with a pwBPD, you probably have a much better understanding of the way people work and since you're doing your own work, you have a much better understanding of yourself. These are gifts that God has given you, strengths and resilience that he has tempered into you like a highly skilled blacksmith.

The thing is, forging out the impurities and shaping a raw piece of metal into something that can be used in God's plan takes fire, it takes pain...

Stay strong, brother, I'll pray for your peace of mind. God doesn't want you living your life tormented and neither do you, you did what was right and I know you know that. You've paid your dues, you've made enough sacrifice and now God doesn't want you sacrificing yourself any longer, he's said enough is enough. You'll find peace, eventually, you'll find a new sense of purpose. Try to focus on the things in life that bring you joy right now, no matter how small or short lived they might be. Embrace those things and just keep moving forward one step at a time.

[ConflictedWalrus]

A bit more context regarding my original post...

The night before my original post, I was obligated to let my uBPDstbxw spend some time with our son. We had to meet at a neutral location for a couple reasons... On her end, the living situation is unstable. On my end, I don't want to let her back into my (formerly "our") apartment for certain legal / divorce strategy reasons.

Legally we both have equal access to our son, even though he's living with me. Until the divorce proceeds further and we have an enforceable parenting plan, I'm concerned that she may try to leave with him if I am not present during visits. For the most part, this means that when she asks to visit we arrange a neutral / public place and time, I take him there, and she hangs out with him while I sort of loiter in the wings (to ensure he comes home with me). She has only asked to visit him a handful of times, and I've been good with LC during these. I've actually been pretty good at calling out my own cognitive distortions and emotional thinking as of late.

The exception was the night before my original post... Towards the end of that visit, she ended up engaging me into a longer conversation. I wasn't very prepared, had a lot of pent up emotions, and ended up getting back into the FOG while talking with her. I let my guard down and expressed my feelings (still love her, but have to protect myself ... wish I knew about "her disorder" before she had her latest cycle of affairs because then we could have worked thru it ... etc...) which she latched onto. She immediately began using my feelings as leverage ("if you know what I need now, then why don't we try to fix that?" ... "if it takes years of counseling, I can't pay for that and will never get better" ... etc.)... We spent probably a good 40 minutes going in circles... JADE, FOG... We talked way too much, and it left me a total wreck.

Yesterday (after I posted), I was still pretty deep into some re-triggered PTSD symptoms. I spent a good hour curled up and crying, afraid of being sucked back in and betrayed by her again. Afterwards, I was finally able to pull out of it enough to distract myself. I threw some dinner in the oven for my son and I and took a bath while it cooked. I started to re-read "The Betrayal Bond" while bathing, which helped.

The final thing that really helped pull me out of the FOG again was actually a text from my wife as I was getting out of the bath... She asked for a few more of her things. It was very matter-of-fact, but the items she asked for (some board games, etc.) indicate to me that she is probably doing ok with the replacement for now. I fear a future recycle attempt, but at least she's staying more occupied than she led on during the visit!

So as the FOG clears again, I see a few items of note:

• Lack of pre-established boundaries... My best interactions are ones where I make a list of "dos and don'ts" to help me stay focused (the goal of the visit is for her to spend time with the kid; I'm only there to facilitate). I failed to do so on this visit.
• Her arguments are usually indirect... She rarely accuses me directly of screwing her over. Instead she brings up obstacles in a way that triggers my need to "fix" things (example: "I can't pay for counseling" doesn't directly assign blame, but makes me feel obligated). As a co-dependent I am especially vulnerable to this -- even when I set boundaries that prevent me from taking action, it triggers guilt in me.
• Visibly / more objectively, she seems to be doing better than she lets on... I was too focused on the emotions of her/my conversation. She's like a cat, in that she's really good at "hiding injuries", but even then she seemed to be doing alright when she was with our son before and after the conversation.
  
• The details she gives seem tailored to what I want to hear and are grounded in half-truth... For example, the "room for rent" / "not doing well" narrative. She was caught off-guard when I told her I knew who she was staying with. There were other things (brief mentions of "trying to go to CR", her attending at a new church but not being sure because of some of their doctrinal issues). These lead to uncertainty and me spending too much mental effort trying to "connect the dots" in search of a plausible / acceptable (to me) version of "reality"... This runs contrary to the purpose of LC / detachment.
  

It's frustrating because I had a lot more confidence in the divorce before that last interaction. I hate how easy it is for me to be dragged back into the FOG... That said, this is a teachable moment.It showed me the importance of remaining LC / as close to NC as possible, especially during visits.

[ConflictedWalrus]

BurnedOnce, thank you for the kind words. I really needed that validation!

I don't know your situation, especially with the kids (how old are they?), but I will chime in with a couple of thoughts:

We've recycled twice since then for a few weeks at a time and I keep thinking the same things you're thinking. I feel sorry for her and don't want her to be alone and heartbroken despite her many premeditated attempts to destroy me in every conceivable way. I want to think that being sober and in therapy will make a difference but I keep weighing that on "we've been here before".

• It sounds like you yourself are already alone and heartbroken in your r/s.
• A lot of my wife's behaviours over the years were done without planning/forethought, or at least it came across that way. This latest set of affairs was more thought out than her norm and thus triggered a greater sense of betrayal. If your wife's actions are truely "premeditated", that's something to consider vs. erratic or unplanned behavior.
• A big part of my staying was because she was actively in recovery. Her current dysregulation took her to a level worse than where she was before she started recovery. If the current situation had been less severe than prior occurrences, I probably would have taken it as a sign of progress and stayed.

[ConflictedWalrus]

Two steps forward, one step back...

Today I met with my wife in a parking lot to exchange some stuff. My plan was to not talk much. I still want her to get help, so I had a pre-typed statement I read off to her:

[Wife's name],

Our relationship has done a lot of damage to both of us, and it is important that each of us heal in our own ways. You know that I am doing counseling, continuing with church, and continuing to go to CR meetings. I am committed to being the better me that God wants me to be, one step at a time.

Another part of the healing process for me is recognizing that as much as I want to be your friend right now, I need the space and the time to heal. It is important to my healing that I reduce the amount of contact we have between you and myself.

I am comfortable with the way we have been texting about exhanges of items, the storage unit, etc. Those texts have been polite and to the point. I would like any in-person contact to be that way as well. I will not be talking very much during any future hand-offs or visits with [S10's name].

As far as your own healing and recovery goes, I believe you have Borderline Personality Disorder and Sex and Love Addiction. Working on these issues will not save our marriage, but it will help you to live a better and happier life if you so choose. I do encourage you to keep going to a good, bible-preaching church. Get right with the Lord and all other things will follow.

I also encourage you to go to CR when possible. You can find local groups by going to the online locator site. If you want a link to the CR locator, text me and I will send it to you.

Also consider getting back in to an SLAA group. If you text me for it, I will send you info on those as well.

I also suggest you try to continue counseling. You are still covered by our health insurance because we are still married. Even if you only get a few sessions in, it may help you. The sessions are still $30 each, but I am willing to pay that for any sessions you go to before the divorce is finalized. I will not set up the appointments or do the paperwork for you, but if you want to see a counselor text me and I will send you [her old counselor she only saw for a couple weeks]'s information.

I wish I could walk along side you in your journey to recovery, but I have to focus on my own healing now. I cannot be involved in your recovery any longer. All I can do is point you towards the three resources I already mentioned. Your recovery is up to you. It is your choice to decide how much it means to you.

I will continue to pray for you daily. God bless you.

I thought working off a prepared statement would be better, but instead it turned into a 20 minute conversation about mental health, the extent of her most recent cheating (how long / how well she hid her recent affairs), and about what led her into dysregulation and relapse.

She told me how abandoned she felt in the run-up to her dysregulation, so I explained just the facts of the circumstances that led there. I did an ok job of not accusing and not including any emotional statements -- just saying "this is what happened" and relaying a fairly objective analysis of the events... She actually seemed to be listening, and seemed pretty remorseful as she processed what I was saying. After that, she said she wants to get therapy and remain married to me, but I told her that I can't do it any more. After that, the interaction ended and we went our separate ways.

(As a side note: I'm still feeling a bit of an emotional boost from what she said about wanting to stay together. I know it's not healthy, and I know it will never work -- but I'm just wired to feel good about what she said. Traumatic bonding sucks.) 

Maybe 30 minutes later, she texted asking for those resources from my statement. I sent them to her, along with a couple texts outlining that none of those resources will work unless they know what's actually going on (when she did counseling and CR during the affair she didn't share the full truth with them). I also told her she needs to start finding friends who love her for who she is, and not for whatever sad / sympathetic story she happens to have on any given day.

Looking back on it, I see a couple problems...

One problem was excess interaction. I blame this on my continuing addiction to her (traumatic bonding) and desire for closure (seeking out details of what led her into the latest affair). Part of the solution is minimizing future need for interactions -- the last of her stuff will be in a storage unit soon, so I won't need to do any more parking lot exchanges.

The other problem is how I approached the offer for mental health help. I still feel like I have an obligation to exhaust every last avenue for helping her before the divorce finalizes. If she accepts the counseling offer it won't cost me much and won't require interaction with me, so that's reasonable... But in hindsight, the stuff I told her about needing to be honest, make friends, etc. strikes me as being very co-dependent / very much an attempt on my part to manage her recovery. I still need to work on that aspect... I need to stop feeling guilty about her fate and radically accept that I have chosen, as my choice, not to be an active participant in her recovery. It's just hard.

[ConflictedWalrus]

Today was a bit better...

I was scheduled to help with child care at church this morning, but texted in to say I couldn't make it. I'm blessed to be in a large enough congregation, so there's a pretty well produced live stream to watch if you stay home. The reason I couldn't go was mood swings, traumatic stress, depression, etc. I just wasn't in good shape to help supervise 30+ kids aging 6-10... Also, I knew it would be a trigger for me because my wife and I use to help with the ministry together. I always really admired how amazing she was with the children. Her ability to be a responsible parent at home was always lacking, but she really had a knack for working a room full of kids. In a way, I almost wonder if her own childish nature somehow allowed her to better relate with them?

I didn't make it to the morning service, but I did go to my church's evening service. When the service ended they called a Church Family meeting (basically an extra few minutes at the end to address a pressing matter)... The pastors had already given me advance notice, but basically it was an announcement about my wife.

Our church (a fairly conservative independent Baptist congregation) takes the following approach to ongoing, unrepentant sin: If a brother or sister in Christ is engaged in unrepentant sin, the member who finds it out should approach them in private (me confronting my wife's adultery). If they will not listen, two or three others who know whats going on should intervene (pastoral staff met with her before the affair turned physical, also tried to reach out to her recently but no answer). Finally the issue is to be brought before the entire church, the idea being that anyone who knows her can encourage her to change course on the infidelity.

I'm assuming at least a few people will try to contact her. Given the way she painted everyone from church black along with me, and given her recent attempt to recycle with me, I'm really not sure how she will take this. Either way, it's between her and the other church members. I am not a part of the process. If nothing changes in the next two weeks, she will be removed from the church's membership.

It's just surreal to think that this process was invoked towards my own wife. Issues related to her past infidelities were always fairly "contained" (limited number of people knowing) because her and I never really had a broad network of friends or close acquaintances. I'm not really sure where to go with that thought... Like I said, it's just surreal to have it out there.

One thing that bothers me is that I'm processing everything that comes with a long-term BPD breakup, but I'm doing it while operating as a full-time custodial single dad. When I enter into crying spells (depression) or become "locked in" (PTSD) my S10 will sometimes try to comfort me. My concern is that it reminds me of my childhood, with me trying to comfort my mom when I was at a similar age and she was overwhelmed by my severely Oppositional Defiant Disordered sister being violent. I think that was a big factor in my developing a rescuer complex and the flawed belief that I had the power or responsibility to "fix" others...

When he does try to comfort me, I usually accept the initial action (typically a hug) and then explain that I appreciate what he is doing but re-iterate to him that I'm processing a lot of emotions and that those emotions aren't related to him and are something I need to process for myself. My goal is for him to learn how to express an appropriate level of empathy, but also develop the boundaries that I lacked / never acquired when I grew up. For his sake, it's important that I remain stable. As outlined in my prior posts, the best way to achieve stability will be to go as LC as possible with his mom.

Does anybody here have experience dealing with being a single parent in the immediate emotional aftermath of a BPD r/s ending? Any advice on how to build up emotional resilience in a child when you yourself are falling apart inside?

[Kayteelouwho]

Good morning, and welcome

[Kayteelouwho]

I can see how you are hurting, and the push and pull from your wife is hard to stay out of the fog. And keeping LC is probably best. I will suggest you may not be able to maintain a friendship as it most likely will recycle back to a relationship, and while you are still healing, it could cause further devaluation in the long run. And I think you are doing a good job. Any relationship breakdown is just the same as grieving and a process, and sometimes understanding that approach can make it easier. Personally, for me, I started some relaxation technics and started some different excise so I could, bring my mind back to myself because the fact is for you to care for your son. It begins with you as an individual; if you were on a plane and needed it in an emergency, whose oxygen mask would you put on first?

The reason I'm saying this is I didn't get it to start with when I was still in a haze of wanting to care for my embed. To care for anyone on a continuous scale, you need to put the mask on first so you can then be able to look after your son and put him on next.

I think you're doing an excellent job with your son, and being a single parent can be a struggle at points, but I believe it will be ok. Your son will learn boundaries with his routines. A child only needs one person to guide them.  I can't remember, but I think you said he is 10, so naturally, he will start pushing them more as he hits the teenage years. Keep yours strong and figure out what boundaries are acceptable to you etc.

I am sorry about what you are going through with the church and your wife I can imagine it's a mixed emotion on that one, even if you or the church encourages her to seek help. The only person that can change that is your wife, and sticking to a counsellor, DPT and various other programmes and saying everything to them as I learnt with my exbpd he would start and quit or not keep up the learning himself, and then recycle it's everyone else to blame or he couldn't do it financially there was a different reason the only person who could change that would be him and that is the same for your wife.

Take care
Kayteee

[ConflictedWalrus]

Thank you Kayteelouwho for the kind words. I may not be BPD, but right now I need all the validation I can get (helps me to push through the tougher moments).

I frequently see the oxygen mask analogy here, but I just had a thought that haven't seen anyone else express before... Hypoxia induces a state of euphoria.  As the O2 concentration in your blood decreases, the brain stops functioning correctly. You lack the coordination to make good decisions or take the necessary actions to protect yourself, but you also feel good about it because of the lack of oxygen.

Recycling is where someone (the BPD partner) reminds you of how good you felt when the mask was off and you believe them long enough to remove the mask and take another "hit". At some point you have to decide whether you want to live in your right mind, or die chasing that feeling of euphoria...

Just a little food for thought there.

[ConflictedWalrus]

Splitting today's trains of thought into their own sections:

Causes for continued contact:
My wife recently returned to a job which doesn't have direct deposit -- I know because her latest paycheck came in the mail. I haven't opened it, but I'm not really sure what to do. On the one hand, I kind of want to let her know it's there (if she has money she will be less likely to try recycling). On the other hand, maybe if she takes more than a few days to ask, it will help me to convince myself that she's actually doing better than I thought. Going to talk to my T on this one, but I think I might just let the check sit until my wife says something.

I'm also thinking ahead to Mothers Day... As outlined in the next section, I want (emotionally) to encourage contact but I know (rationally) that it's better to not intervene in the natural course of things. She can always reach out to make arrangements if she wants to.

Mother/son communications:
She didn't try to contact me or S10 yesterday or the day before. This is pretty common for weekends -- I'm expecting in another day or so, she will text him to say she was busy working over the weekend... For his sake I wish she would make more effort to contact him, but that's not my problem any more. I've thought about reminding him to try texting or calling her each night, but I've decided to let her set the pace for their relationship. As with all things, I am overthinking my motivations and feelings on the matter:

• I do want to encourage bonding/connection between mother and child. If they can spend quality time together, they should absolutely be able to do that. Hopefully he won't have abandonment issues as he grows older.
• They don't express as close of an attachment as most parents/children. Their conversations seem to lack the "depth" of his/my conversations. I wish it were different, but I recognize I have no control over this.
• There's a good chance (past history with her kids from prior r/s) that she will slowly pull away from him. The only reason I see this maybe not happening is because she's spent a lot more time with this one (10 years) vs. the others (It's not my fault if that happens with our S10, but I don't want to do anything that would help trigger or accelerate the process.
• In a way, encouraging him to reach out to her more would be me compensating for her deficiencies. Maybe I'm just wishing (yet again) that she would be someone that she is really not.
• On the other hand, he's an easily distracted 10 year old. Maybe it's my job to remind / teach him the importance of talking to his mom each day?

Regardless, there's also a short-term legal motivation. Right now, the less they talk, the more I can point to neglect in court and better establish the case of me having primary custody. I won't do anything to prevent them from communicating, but I'm also not going to intervene in the natural course (for the time being).

The spiritual / Christian struggle aspect:
Last night I was a bit less depressed, and felt a strong pull to do some more reading on divorce in scripture. I'll fault my self a bit here: I'm the sort who can inhale commentary / analysis, but I'm not great about opening my actual Bible.

That said, my focus last night started with divorce in the Old Testament (largely summed up as rules to protect the rights of the woman since), moved to the New Testament (reasons believers are permitted to divorce, but also much reflection on how marriage reflects the relationship between Christ and his church), and finished by looking at Old Testament examples of God divorcing Israel.

One of my big hang-ups was Matt. 19:8 ("Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard”). I always took it to mean that if I seek a divorce, it's because the my heart is hard (let's call this interpretation "A"). But what I'm finding is that there are many others who interpret it more as "ConflictedWalrus can divorce his wife for his own protection because her heart is hard" (call it interpretation "B").

I used to go with "A", but now I'm leaning more towards "B"... God intended people to stay together, but he recognized that the injured spouse may need to protect themself. My actions (trying to not screw her over financially, wanting to see her relationship with S10 continue, etc.) seem to indicate my heart is not hardened. I genuinely want to forgive her, and I genuinely want the best for her regardless of whether we remain married or not. I just hope I'm not mistaking traumatic bonding for a softened / loving heart.

[kells76]

Hey CW, just a few thoughts on what you've shared. I'm from over on the divorce/custody/coparenting board (my H's kids' mom has many BPD traits), and you're welcome to post there as well as here on Detaching, no problem.

Causes for continued contact:
My wife recently returned to a job which doesn't have direct deposit -- I know because her latest paycheck came in the mail. I haven't opened it, but I'm not really sure what to do. On the one hand, I kind of want to let her know it's there (if she has money she will be less likely to try recycling). On the other hand, maybe if she takes more than a few days to ask, it will help me to convince myself that she's actually doing better than I thought. Going to talk to my T on this one, but I think I might just let the check sit until my wife says something.

Am I tracking correctly that she is living... elsewhere? And that as of this point, you have no plans to reconcile in the immediate future?

It would be perfectly normal to mark the envelope as "return to sender, addressee no longer resides here" and to put it back in the mail.

Or, you could decide if you want to try some BIFF communication, with built-in "rails", to manage this interaction (this is where I lean when I need to text the kids' mom):

"Hi Wife's Name;
FYI some mail arrived yesterday for you from Company Name. If I don't hear back from you by Friday about you picking it up, I'll assume that you're good with it being returned to the sender.
Best; CW"

Some pwBPD can stonewall or not respond when there's something to work out. If you don't put in a deadline, then you're left hanging, unable to move forward without a response. In this construction, even if she doesn't respond, that's still an answer -- her non-response is effectively an OK for you to solve it yourself, without further contact.

And of course, like you said, letting her solve her own issues (i.e. not helping her realize that she is getting mail sent to you) is also a strong option. If she wants it, she can figure out where it got sent and reach out herself.

Lots of paths forward where you (a) aren't doing her work for her, and (b) aren't left waiting for her to respond.

I'm also thinking ahead to Mothers Day... As outlined in the next section, I want (emotionally) to encourage contact but I know (rationally) that it's better to not intervene in the natural course of things. She can always reach out to make arrangements if she wants to.

Mother/son communications:
She didn't try to contact me or S10 yesterday or the day before. This is pretty common for weekends -- I'm expecting in another day or so, she will text him to say she was busy working over the weekend... For his sake I wish she would make more effort to contact him, but that's not my problem any more. I've thought about reminding him to try texting or calling her each night, but I've decided to let her set the pace for their relationship. As with all things, I am overthinking my motivations and feelings on the matter:

• I do want to encourage bonding/connection between mother and child. If they can spend quality time together, they should absolutely be able to do that. Hopefully he won't have abandonment issues as he grows older.
• They don't express as close of an attachment as most parents/children. Their conversations seem to lack the "depth" of his/my conversations. I wish it were different, but I recognize I have no control over this.
• There's a good chance (past history with her kids from prior r/s) that she will slowly pull away from him. The only reason I see this maybe not happening is because she's spent a lot more time with this one (10 years) vs. the others (It's not my fault if that happens with our S10, but I don't want to do anything that would help trigger or accelerate the process.
• In a way, encouraging him to reach out to her more would be me compensating for her deficiencies. Maybe I'm just wishing (yet again) that she would be someone that she is really not.
• On the other hand, he's an easily distracted 10 year old. Maybe it's my job to remind / teach him the importance of talking to his mom each day?

Regardless, there's also a short-term legal motivation. Right now, the less they talk, the more I can point to neglect in court and better establish the case of me having primary custody. I won't do anything to prevent them from communicating, but I'm also not going to intervene in the natural course (for the time being).

Your conclusion is wise -- she is who she is, that's not something you have control over, and while it's normal to wish that she would parent differently, that's not your work to do. More typically it's BPD/NPD dads who "seek a comfortable parenting level" that is much lower than the moms wish (or is all on paper for the "win" but not happening day to day), though there are also moms wBPD here who "drift away" from parenting as they seek new relationships.

There's also the thought that she can only parent to the extent of her abilities, and if she copes with BPD traits and behaviors, then she has significant emotional/relational impairment. Her texting once a week may be what it looks like for her to parent the best she can. As long as the texts aren't unhealthy, whether overtly or covertly, then yeah, they might be shallow, but that could be her very best.

And it's also wise to realize that it's not your son's job to reach out more. If he has a desire to reach out more, then certainly don't inhibit that, but I'd steer away from any kind of setup where it's "Mommy forgets, so why don't you remember to call instead", as that's parentifying S10.

So, in terms of your S10 and contact with Mom, perhaps the more important thing for you to do, rather than "try to make him call her", is to take in his thoughts, perceptions, behaviors, and attitudes about his mom over time -- listen to how he talks about her, if he says things like "I wish I could Facetime with her", and work with that. If he has a counselor, run that idea past the counselor, too -- it's important to thread that needle of not overfunctioning for your W's parenting, while also not sending subtle messaging to your son that somehow you're happier if he doesn't say he wants Mom. (Not saying you're doing that at all! Just a balance to keep in mind).

In terms of the spiritual/Christian aspect of your journey, I'd love to comment, but need to wrap up for now. I join you in finding the teachings both important and also incredibly widely interpreted. I do think it's possible to get a coherent picture of God's worldview on divorce from not only those passages but also the Bible as a whole.

Hope to comment more later;

kells76

[ConflictedWalrus]

Hey kells76, thanks for the invite. I think I gravitated here because of my own personal emphasis on needing to detatch / walk away, regardless of how conflicted I feel about actually doing it. That being said, the other board looks like it's going to be the more relevant going forward.

Am I tracking correctly that she is living... elsewhere? And that as of this point, you have no plans to reconcile in the immediate future?

It's funny because I brought the paycheck up with my therapist right around the time you posted and his thoughts were in lock-step with yours...

You are correct that she is living elsewhere. I think I know where, but not with enough certainty to risk forwarding the check. I may take the BIFF route in a few more days, but I'm not going to do it until after my compulsive desire for contact has reduced a bit more. I want to contact her because she has a paycheck, and not because I have a compulsion to contact her (if that makes sense).

Assuming she wants to visit our son for Mothers Day I will give it to her then. For now the check is just going to keep burning a hole in my kitchen counter until the time is right.

As to the prospects of immediate reconciliation... Her most recent infidelities took the deception and secrecy to a new level vs. past affairs, so I'm forcing myself to be as objective as possible. I currently have zero verifiable evidence that she is taking any meaningful steps to address her sexual addiction or mental health. Anything she has said thus-far was "too perfect" and sounded like empty re-assurances.

It could be that she is actually telling the truth when she talks about taking steps, and that my detatchment / LC prevents me from being in a position to see them... It could be that she wants to take the steps, but cannot follow through right now because she is too busy learning to be an adult after 13 years of being care-taken... It could be that she's happy with her new r/s status and is just trying to keep me available for a recycle...

If she has a change of heart or if God does a miracle in her life, the results will speak for themselves over a prolonged period of time.

Your conclusion is wise -- she is who she is, that's not something you have control over, and while it's normal to wish that she would parent differently, that's not your work to do. More typically it's BPD/NPD dads who "seek a comfortable parenting level" that is much lower than the moms wish (or is all on paper for the "win" but not happening day to day), though there are also moms wBPD here who "drift away" from parenting as they seek new relationships.

One of my fears is the drifting away. She actually hasn't attempted contact with either of us since her call on Saturday night (today being Wednesday afternoon). My mind tends to gravitate towards wondering whether something bad happened to her, but I have to say it's far more likely she is just distracted and putting her time towards new relationships.

There's also the thought that she can only parent to the extent of her abilities, and if she copes with BPD traits and behaviors, then she has significant emotional/relational impairment. Her texting once a week may be what it looks like for her to parent the best she can. As long as the texts aren't unhealthy, whether overtly or covertly, then yeah, they might be shallow, but that could be her very best.

Wow. Just wow!... Thank you so much for that!

A bit of self-reflective hindsight here... I recognize one of my major contributions to the marriage collapsing was resentment over her lack of involvement in parenting. I wanted to hold her to a higher standard than what she could realistically achieve.

Part of radical acceptance is reminding myself that even in her most detached and neglectful moments, she was really just doing the best she could. Your comment was a good reminder of the need to look at her through a lens of compassion.

So, in terms of your S10 and contact with Mom, perhaps the more important thing for you to do, rather than "try to make him call her", is to take in his thoughts, perceptions, behaviors, and attitudes about his mom over time -- listen to how he talks about her, if he says things like "I wish I could Facetime with her", and work with that. If he has a counselor, run that idea past the counselor, too -- it's important to thread that needle of not overfunctioning for your W's parenting, while also not sending subtle messaging to your son that somehow you're happier if he doesn't say he wants Mom. (Not saying you're doing that at all! Just a balance to keep in mind).

Left to his own devices, he won't ever initiate contact (he's just not that sort). For now I think the best strategy is to keep on doing what I've been doing... If he misses a call or text from her, I'll let him know "hey, it looks like your mom wanted to talk". Otherwise I'm just not going to bring it up.

In terms of the spiritual/Christian aspect of your journey, I'd love to comment, but need to wrap up for now. I join you in finding the teachings both important and also incredibly widely interpreted. I do think it's possible to get a coherent picture of God's worldview on divorce from not only those passages but also the Bible as a whole.

I'm looking forward to any thoughts on the Christian side of things. To clarify a bit on my current position; I feel strongly that I do have biblical grounds for divorce, but I'm still going through the process of coming to accept that this is the path I have chosen. Even when I'm not being gaslit, I'm the sort who tends to second guess myself perpetually until all avenues for doubt are exhausted. I just need to "sit in my decision" for a while longer so that my emotions can catch up with my rational thinking.

---

I was also going to post a general update as well, but I guess the saying goes "no news is good news". I'm not initiating contact, and my wife hasn't sent anything for a couple of days... Yesterday I spent some quality time with my son. We did some grocery shopping, cooked a meal together... It was the first time in a long while that I wasn't mentally consumed by the marriage and divorce.

I'm really starting to enjoy the lack of drama.

[ConflictedWalrus]

So just another little update...

My uBPDstbxw wanted time with the kid for Mothers Day. They got to do a restaurant while I elected to hang out in my car. She also asked to visit the next day (Monday), so I agreed. I had another commitment which meant I couldn't supervise, but was comfortable with her stated plan of taking him to the mall to play arcade games for the evening... When I dropped him off, she tried to do a last-minute change of plan. She wanted instead to take him to the place she's staying because they were going to be grilling chicken and playing in a back yard pool.

I'm not comfortable with this because the place she's staying is a room for rent with people I've never met, one of which she slept with when she did her recent 10-day disappearing act... I should have stuck with a simple "no" or "I'm not comfortable with that", but instead I got upset in the moment at the last minute request and gave her a piece of my mind about "her poor judgement about the kind of people she's with when she acts out" and not wanting our son around them... Not my finest moment.

Later in the evening, I called to apologize for my attitude but instead it turned into a rehashing of the same grievances plus her and I going back and forth on causes for her affair, etc... Very counter-productive...

And then one more call where we basically discussed what went wrong in the r/s, what could have been done better, etc. We agreed we both love each other but we both have issues. She wants to work on things, get help, get counseling, etc... In a way, I sort of outlined things that would need to happen if she were serious about working on her issues, but ultimately I held firm in saying that it's over.

I can't have any more conversations like this. Whenever we have verbal contact, I can't control my emotions and stay on topic. We fall back into the familiar circular dance of mini-makeup-breakup discussions... This is probably crazy-making at its finest, but in the end I end up feeling like she acted normally and like I brought the drama.

Going full NC isn't an option due to S10, but to help drama-proof future interactions I'm setting a new boundary. I will only allow myself to coordinate future child visits via text. No exceptions.

I will wait a moment before sending anything. No more spur of the moment emotional responses.

I'm also going to ensure that until a stronger court order is in place, any visits will be pre-planned with those plans laid out in text (any "surprise" requests will be met with a basic "no").

I just wish we hadn't talked so much. One of these days I will learn from my mistakes.

---

The rest of this post just a random emotional vent. Kind words are always appreciated, but really this is all pretty much stream of consciousness nonsense... Feel free to ignore.

---

And so, here I am. Crying at random times throughout the day. Sitting, staring blankly at a screen. Grieving the r/s... Feeling guilty over my contributions to the decline.

When her second-to-last affair happened five years ago, there was hope. It was the first time that we "knew what was wrong" (sex and love addiction; didn't actually know about BPD yet)... We could both point to the counseling we were getting... Fixing the r/s was a shared goal. She worked on her sex and love addiction, I worked on my own unhealthy coping mechanisms (porn, excess gaming). We worked together on how to communicate in our relationship; how to love and respect one another... We both came to know Christ, started attending church... We started modeling healthy roles in each others lives... We were finally building a life together...

As I recovered from that affair, she was there for me. She owned her issues... In tough moments, she would be comfort me... Hugs, words of reassurance... Trustworthy actions... But then it all fell apart again. And now I have to face the pain by myself.

I could have her back home and be in her arms again in a heartbeat. I could have that comfort again, recycle again. She's at a point where she's willing, but...

... I have to keep telling myself that she will never get better.

... I have to tell myself that any counseling she does will just be buying more time before life gets in the way.

... I have to remind myself that it would just be a recycle. That I will eventually stop being "perfect", and she will devalue me again.

... I have to tell myself that she wants to get better, but only for right now, while things are getting difficult for her.

... I have to tell myself that she really does love me but only until she doesn't.


With this latest affair, I made sure that my support network and accountability partners knew of my decision to divorce. They saw the shock and the pain that I was in... They learned the history of the abuses that I suffered throughout the r/s, and why I need to escape so badly. I told them I'm trauma bonded, addicted to her, irrational... I told them that I would likely go back and forth, and that I would need their help to stay the course.

Now that I'm at that phase of wanting her back, they are doing their job admirably. Whenever I'm emotionally driven to reconcile with her, I turn to them and they remind me of the facts... And I hate them for it.

... I hate that they are right.

... I hate that they remind me of why I need to leave.

... I hate that they talk me out of reconciling.


Sometimes I just want her so badly that it's like I'm painting them black in my mind, even though I know that they are only helping me to do what's best for myself and my son. I hate what they are doing, but I also appreciate them so very dearly for holding me accountable. I hate the past version of me that (in a moment of clarity and desperation) told them all what needed to be done.

Thirteen years. All of it meaningless. Even the happiest of memories is just a trigger for the growing sadness... I have friends, but at night I'm just so alone... This the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.

BPD sucks.