Bizarre interaction ... what the heck just happened?

[FarDrop77]

So my wife just said what feels like the most bonkers thing, and I can't stop thinking about it, so I'm starting a new post to ask about it.

Last night my wife was sitting up in bed browsing Instagram - just like most nights, this is what we do before eventually turning out the lights and going to sleep. But this time she stayed up later than usual, so I turned off the light on my nightstand, rolled over and closed my eyes to sleep first.

She eventually turned off her own light, but instead of lying down to sleep, got up and sat in our massage chair in the dark. I asked why and she said there wasn’t room for her on the bed. It's a huge king bed and I was on the right third of the bed, separated from her side by one of those long body pillows, giving her a theoretically large amount of space - maybe about a twin bed's worth - larger than what I give myself.  But we have a lot of pillows, so I asked if she wanted me to move any of the pillows out of the way. She didn't answer.  I guessed she was likely upset about something, but she usually doesn't say why until the next day anyway, so I went back to sleep.

Sometime later I awake to the sound of her leaving the room. I felt like I had to at least try to see what's bothering her so I got up and found her on the living room couch. I asked why and again she said it was because I wouldn't give her enough space to lie down. I'm confused because the bed is huge and the half that's hers is about 2-3x as wide as the sofa she left it for. So I asked her to explain why she feels I didn't give her enough space and she's like, "how should I know? You're the one who needs all the space! I'm just talking myself out of the equation." (Taking herself "out of the equation" is how she typically describes her splitting behaviors like leaving the room in anger and giving the silent treatment.)  I thought maybe she was talking about emotional space and not physical space - like maybe she wanted time alone.  After a couple more back and forths, however, the best I could glean is that she feels I was sprawled all over the bed, not giving her room, and she asked for me to give her space.  She waited for a while and when I didn't give her space, she turned out the light, got up, and sat in the chair.  Then she waited in the chair to see if I'd move aside, and when I didn't, she left the room for the couch. I don't think any of this was remotely the case, but it was the middle of the night, I was half asleep, so I told her I love her and wish she'd come back to bed.

Usually when she is upset about something there is some element of subjectivity, but I definitely felt like there was a vast amount of space on this huge bed, so this all kind of freaked me out.  Did she hallucinate me doing something I didn't?  Did I black out and forget what I was doing?  So I took a picture of the bed as I'd left it - on my side the blanket was to the side as I'd gotten up. We have a body pillow dividing the two sides, giving her 1/2 of the bed and me around 1/3, and the pillow fitting the remainder.  So to prevent her from lying down I'd need to really be on her side of this pillow, but it looked like I had definitely been lying on my own side and not blacking out and forgetting something.

In the morning I tried to get some clarity by showing her the picture and asking what I was doing that was bothering her, but all she would say was that I was "on her pillow". I pointed to the body  pillow dividing the bed, but she said no, she meant the pillow she rests her head on, well past the center point of the bed.  She said that if it bothered me so much, she would sleep in a different bed altogether.  I sensed that she was feeling invalidated so I said that I just wanted to make sure I'm not doing things I shouldn't and then blacking out and being unaware of them.  That's never happened to my knowledge but if it does happen I definitely want to know.

Anyway this feels more strange to me than the usual BPD stuff ... it's not like I said something and she misinterpreted it, it's like she saw a completely different visual reality from me - her sitting on the bed, for a long time, cramped into a small space with no room to stretch out, while I saw myself as several feet away, not even facing her because her light was on and I was trying to get to sleep.

What do you think happened?  Is it within the typical behavior for a pwBPD or is this something else?
Did she hallucinate the whole thing (e.g. dementia - but we're in our 40s so this is a bit soon)?
Maybe my arm was draped across the pillow, my hand entering a few inches into her side, and since she sees things in black and white this was the equivalent of "no room to lie down"?
A couple hours earlier in the evening I actually *was* on her side of the bed for a few minutes in an attempt to show her affection (sex is out of the question now but she permits cuddling from time to time); is it like she doesn't "count" the part where I moved back to my side and placed the pillow between us?
Is she just making it up to see if I will invalidate her?  Like it's a test?

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[thankful person]

What do you think happened?  Is it within the typical behavior for a pwBPD or is this something else?
Did she hallucinate the whole thing (e.g. dementia - but we're in our 40s so this is a bit soon)?
Maybe my arm was draped across the pillow, my hand entering a few inches into her side, and since she sees things in black and white this was the equivalent of "no room to lie down"?
A couple hours earlier in the evening I actually *was* on her side of the bed for a few minutes in an attempt to show her affection (sex is out of the question now but she permits cuddling from time to time); is it like she doesn't "count" the part where I moved back to my side and placed the pillow between us?
Is she just making it up to see if I will invalidate her?  Like it's a test?

Hi far drop,

I’m not confident about helping others these days, but I can certainly share my perspective and experiences. Yes in my experience this would certainly be behaviour that I wouldn’t see as unusual in my dbpdw. In my case I had much success in learning how to communicate and get along better with her when I first joined bpd family… but she went rapidly downhill following the birth of our third.. and it seems is not coming back up the hill.

Borderline literally means on the borderline between milder mental illness like depression, and severe psychotic conditions like schizophrenia. I’m not sure whether people with dementia hallucinate in the same way as schizophrenia, but their warped perception of what is happening or warped memory of what just happened is comparable. I have indeed compared my wife’s behaviour to that of someone with dementia. I have worked with dementia patients and I have absolutely no concerns that my wife suffers from it.

Your arm possibly being draped across the pillow, and her equating this to not having room to lie down seems likely. With my wife, I feel like she does know when she has said and done things which are (to me) “absolutely ridiculous”, but her sense of pride would never allow any admission of extreme unnecessary behaviour etc, so she will deny all and any evidence or reasoning and continue to insist on her own reality. Whilst validation (without agreement) helps, be very very careful to not openly question your own reality and perception. It’s a slippery slope indeed to even pretend you understand a pwbpd’s delusions. It seems to me if I play into such suggestions from my wife then she will create even more crazy situations and it’s like she loses her sanity even more when I join her in her delusions. They desperately need us to be the sane one, even though they make it near impossible at times.

It often feels like a test. I used to think my wife had planned out what she wanted and expected from my response, and my role was to desperately try to figure out what I could say to make things better.. But actually this is a total no win game where she has no idea what she wants or what she believes, only that it is all and always my fault.

I hope you can continue to enjoy sharing a bed and the occasional cuddle. These are long and distant memories for me.

[Elitevaz]

Hi, just wanted to throw my perspective in. I’m discarded currently, I noticed my tolerance for delusions declined while I was in the fire. That said, I think in this situation the first problem that stood out to me was that your spider sense was alerted that she was slipping and you ignored her mostly. You know that you can’t talk her into telling you what she wants. It’s not fair to you. She even intensified it by leaving the room. Neurotypical women will engage these passive aggressive behaviors too. I hear them say the same thing - I want him to just get it. In other words, read her mind. Women wbpd are this, but ascended. So, you staying with her means you have to have next level mind reading skills.

That said, my advice first and foremost would be to trust your spider senses in any situation like this and take it very seriously. I would get up out of the bed after validating her feelings (do not admit wrongdoing), then tell her to lay down first and get comfortable. Avoid excessive questions, because you can’t trust her to tell you the truth within your perception, only within her warped perception that you can’t trust.

I couldn’t help but be surprised you stay with a borderline in a dead bedroom. I’m sure you’ve been in the fire much longer than I was, but it seems like bpd are usually easy to get sexual with. The emotional lability, impulsiveness, and sometimes self trashing all lend themselves well to getting started in bed. The only reason I mention this is because even in my short time with a bpd, if there was no sex I’d rather not put up with it. I know you got kids to think about too, but you said she’ll allow cuddling so that sounds to me like you are still interested in the intimacy with her. Pwbpd seem to me like they are out of control, so you have a power over her if you are able to lead the emotions. They don’t control the negative or the positives, giving you power if you’re willing to put forth the effort.

[EyesUp]

I couldn’t help but be surprised you stay with a borderline in a dead bedroom. I’m sure you’ve been in the fire much longer than I was, but it seems like bpd are usually easy to get sexual with. The emotional lability, impulsiveness, and sometimes self trashing all lend themselves well to getting started in bed.

I won't agree or disagree here, but I will add: 

As I read OP's story, while thinking of my own experience with my uBPDxw (then W), I was speculating: OP's W wants validation - in bed / in the bedroom - and likely wanted to be invited back to bed...  or wanted OP to leave the bed. 

Did she want to break the DB, or does she want an opportunity to reject OP? Perhaps something else, I cannot say.

My uBPDxw did almost this exact thing on multiple occasions over our ~14yr marriage.  I could be sound asleep - she would turn on the lights, sit up in bed, and then stare at me in anger - when I'd wake up, she'd insist that I was preventing her from sleeping.  Or she'd leave the room, and if I pursued it, she'd state that I didn't care if she slept with me or not.  These were her overtures for me to apologize to her / validate her / demonstrate interest in her / initiate sex with her.  i.e., this routine was her disordered way of initiating sex, by attempting to place me in a certain role.

In my case, there was never a DB, so I might be way, way off base here re: OP's situation.

At risk of sounding a false alarm, this sort of splitting behavior also appeared acutely near the end of the marriage when I discovered uBPDxw's affair (at which time were still regularly intimate).

Like OP, I was committed to keeping things together for the kids, etc.

My sense is that disordered individuals need sleep like anyone else - and sometimes it's harder for them to nod off with disordered / intrusive thoughts and raging concerns and insecurities preoccupying their attention. If OP's wife is getting out of bed, but not leaving the bedroom - she wants some attention. Using a massage chair with sound strikes me as similar to turning on the lights - it's hard for someone else to sleep nearby in these conditions.

In my case, I suspect that dopamine and endorphins kept the marriage going longer than it would have otherwise.

OP, your W is certainly aware of the DB situation, and may have some discomfort with it - and probably wants to place all blame with you. I certainly can't say if that's her motive for becoming uncomfortable in the bed - or becoming uncomfortable with you in the bed. 

It's been a night or two - What's happened since?  Is everyone back to sharing a bed?

How are you doing?

[FarDrop77]

It's been a night or two - What's happened since?  Is everyone back to sharing a bed?

How are you doing?

As seems to happen sometimes, it's like it didn't happen.  She acted totally normal (for her).

Of course today I mucked things up. She was telling me about a kid that kept saying he doesn't like surfing even though he repeatedly went back to catch more waves.  She was in a good mood and her ability to see through the kid's contradictory language (claiming he doesn't like it even though he loves it ) made me feel like she was being exceptionally self-aware, and I mistakenky took this moment to say it reminded me of how she is always saying she'd rather be dead even though she seems to love being alive.

She immediately (like within a minute or 2) canceled all of her cardiology and Neurology appointments and threw out her meds.  She was smiling and ecstatic.  She says the only reason she was staying alive was for me and since I accused her of lying she no longer has to pretend, she must not matter to me, and knowing she doesn't matter to me gives her permission to die...

It is becoming progressively more unreal to me; someone said that after learning about bpd, their girlfriend started to seem like a bpd "machine", and in moments like these I feel that keenly, as if she was given a bpd script and all I can do is watch her act it out ... I feel I'm emotionally not reacting with the shock of before I knew this.  I'm not sure but it might contribute to making her be even more extreme in an attempt to make me upset.

I just tried to tell her I know she has been working very hard to stay alive and that I do need her, her son needs her, etc.  I wrote a message to her family on the other side of earth to let them know... sometimes it seems like she will regulate herself more for them, like she will be enraged when we're alone but then flip back to normalcy for them, so maybe they can get her to keep her appointments at least.

Edited for more detail/clarity.

[waverider]

First point is you have no idea what is in her mind, and probably never will, no matter how much you manage to openly talk about it. The reason is they dont understand it either.

My guess is that "something" was bothering her so she couldn't sleep. She couldn't or didn't want to talk about it. So she just made up a weak excuse, as someone else needs to be at fault/she wanted to hide it. You went into logical mode. Which can be like a red rag to a bull. So she removed herself further from you to avoid questioning.

Dont try to resolve everything, show you care and if she doesn't play ball then shrug and get on with things and dont push it otherwise you risk escalating into a conflict which has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.

If you press a pwBPD on an issue they dont understand, it will invalidate them for not having the answers.

[EyesUp]

great advice from @waverider.

>> It is becoming progressively more unreal to me; someone said that after learning about bpd, their girlfriend started to seem like a bpd "machine", and in moments like these I feel that keenly, as if she was given a bpd script and all I can do is watch her act it out ...

I once commented to my X that she was an "anger artist" - she could come up so many creative reasons to be angry - anytime, anywhere.  As you might guess, this attempt to address the dynamic didn't help.

[waverider]

great advice from @waverider.

>> It is becoming progressively more unreal to me; someone said that after learning about bpd, their girlfriend started to seem like a bpd "machine", and in moments like these I feel that keenly, as if she was given a bpd script and all I can do is watch her act it out ...

I once commented to my X that she was an "anger artist" - she could come up so many creative reasons to be angry - anytime, anywhere.  As you might guess, this attempt to address the dynamic didn't help.

This takes you back to the old argument of which comes first, thoughts or feelings? Typically you think about something and it triggers a feeling.

 Often it seems like a pwBPD will have an intensive feeling out of nowhere, seemingly for no apparent reason, then will think of a reason, totally unrelated, to justify it. Dont know how true that is, but it often comes across like that. Probably a subconscious trigger or alarm bell that goes off without any real awareness, but they need to allocate a reason.

[Elitevaz]

This takes you back to the old argument of which comes first, thoughts or feelings? Typically you think about something and it triggers a feeling.

 Often it seems like a pwBPD will have an intensive feeling out of nowhere, seemingly for no apparent reason, then will think of a reason, totally unrelated, to justify it. Dont know how true that is, but it often comes across like that. Probably a subconscious trigger or alarm bell that goes off without any real awareness, but they need to allocate a reason.

I wish I read this 9 months ago when I started failing to properly understand what I was dealing with while being devalued and puzzled with impulsive self destructive behaviors from my exwbpd. I always knew there was something hidden in what she was being delusional about, but I could never figure it out. I realize now that she is gone that I starved her of validation that she requested inappropriately. Which sounds like what is going on here. They want effort placed on them and I found it exhausting going through my logical processes trying to solve the problem. Reading the emotion and body language behaviors would go so much further. I would do just like op and try to ignore her calls for attention, because they were frequent and illogical. They ask for impossible things, that they clearly made up, but yes, it seems more like she felt something, bpd intensified it, then she’s left confused as to why she has this feeling she can’t control and ends up inventing anything she can to justify it. My ex constantly tried to make it seem like I didn’t care about her, but I did anything I could for her like a slave. Put others to the side for her. Really it must have been more about the way I tended to her feelings. She often would tell me of a problem and I would desperately try to solve it logically. I would try not to look desperate by expressing too much interest in her. You do have to protect yourself from their cruel abusive comments, but if your staying with her, understand that those comments take on different attributes coming from pwbpd. You are the most important to her, but also she has expectations for you to regulate her(be psychic). It’s very very difficult.

[Cat Familiar]

Echoing Waverider’s comment: Dont try to resolve everything, show you care and if she doesn't play ball then shrug and get on with things and dont push it otherwise you risk escalating into a conflict which has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.

Sometimes the best strategy is to not give a F* about what is going on with them. It’s counterintuitive for sure, but you expend far less energy and avoid conflict. A comment like, “I didn’t know I was in your space; I’ll try and stay in mine. I’m exhausted—going back to sleep. Hope you join me.” And then, give it no further attention.

[FarDrop77]

This takes you back to the old argument of which comes first, thoughts or feelings? Typically you think about something and it triggers a feeling.

 Often it seems like a pwBPD will have an intensive feeling out of nowhere, seemingly for no apparent reason, then will think of a reason, totally unrelated, to justify it. Dont know how true that is, but it often comes across like that. Probably a subconscious trigger or alarm bell that goes off without any real awareness, but they need to allocate a reason.

Long ago I read a book on cognitive behavioral therapy that claimed withiut a doubt that thoughts come before feelings, but that felt wrong to me since I had generalized anxiety, and there would be many days I'd wake up feeling anxious, before really being awake enough to remember what happened the day before (or whatever was the original cause, if any), and have this moment of confusion as to why I was feeling that way.  It often felt like my body was the thing that was anxious, like waking up with a cold, not connected to anything that my mind was aware of.  200 mg of zoloft kept me from having this feeling the past 15 years or so. So it does some make some sense to me that you could have a feeling come out of nowhere ... and then figure it must have come from something your partner did...

It reminds me a bit of an article I read on split brain syndrome, where you can ask someone what they're doing, but since the speech center isn't connected to the part doing the action, they don't know.  However instead of just saying they don't know or expressing confusion, they make up a bizarre explanation.  I wish I could find where I'd read that.

[waverider]

It reminds me a bit of an article I read on split brain syndrome, where you can ask someone what they're doing, but since the speech center isn't connected to the part doing the action, they don't know.  However instead of just saying they don't know or expressing confusion, they make up a bizarre explanation.  I wish I could find where I'd read that.

I guess the black and white nature of BPD, along with not  accepting as "just is" creates the need to lay the blame somewhere.

I'm anxious>dont know why>must be your fault>if asked why>pull out first thing that comes to mind>know its a weak reason>insecurity when questioned about it>auto defense of victimhood and escalation>double down>partner now totally confused as the war has shifted to a different paddock for unfathomable reasons>partner gets triggered and argues back>this validates victimhood>around we go dosey doe