Advice for my dad

[Our abuse recovery guide]

My uBPD mom and dad have been married for 40 years. In 2010, when I moved to the US, I had to obtain a birth certificate as an immigration requirement. This was when my mother and I found out that my parents were not married.

Apparently, my dad was married previously and never had the marriage annulled, so this invalided his marriage to my mother. I think she may have known about this relationship (this woman’s name comes up even up to this when they argue), but I’m not sure if she knew they were married until 2010.

Now that his marriage has been annulled, my mother is asking my dad to marry her. Mind you, she hates my dad so much, but I believe she’s doing this to save face. Additionally, she believes that if their marriage isn’t legalized, it’ll cause issues if I eventually decide to sponsor her for a green card.

My dad told me that she’s willing to give her one more chance. He’s willing to legitimize their marriage in one condition - if she changes her behavior for good. I told my dad no. To me, a person who truly wants to change would change out of their own volition. In this case, she’s only promising change because she needs something from him. And besides, knowing that she’s mentally ill, that’s going to be impossible because you can’t re-wire her brain. She’s only going to act the way she always has once she gets what she wants.


What do you think? I feel bad for my dad. I wish I could save him from this.

[zanyapple]

My uBPD mom and dad have been married for 40 years. In 2010, when I moved to the US, I had to obtain a birth certificate as an immigration requirement. This was when my mother and I found out that my parents were not married.

Apparently, my dad was married previously and never had the marriage annulled, so this invalided his marriage to my mother. I think she may have known about this relationship (this woman’s name comes up even up to this when they argue), but I’m not sure if she knew they were married until 2010.

Now that his marriage has been annulled, my mother is asking my dad to marry her. Mind you, she hates my dad so much, but I believe she’s doing this to save face. Additionally, she believes that if their marriage isn’t legalized, it’ll cause issues if I eventually decide to sponsor her for a green card.

My dad told me that she’s willing to give her one more chance. He’s willing to legitimize their marriage in one condition - if she changes her behavior for good. I told my dad no. To me, a person who truly wants to change would change out of their own volition. In this case, she’s only promising change because she needs something from him. And besides, knowing that she’s mentally ill, that’s going to be impossible because you can’t re-wire her brain. She’s only going to act the way she always has once she gets what she wants.


What do you think? I feel bad for my dad. I wish I could save him from this.

[livednlearned]

How did your dad respond when you told him that she won't be able to follow through on any promise she makes to change her behavior?

Do you think your dad might get something out of this arrangement, if even only for a short while?

I wonder if he needs to do this in order to assuage his own guilt.

For those of us who were raised with guilt, there is often someone in the family who modeled that same behavior.

It is a way to bargain with an abuser for small scraps of normalcy, even if it's fleeting.

It can create the illusion that we have control over something, when the opposite is often true.

[zanyapple]

How did your dad respond when you told him that she won't be able to follow through on any promise she makes to change her behavior?

Do you think your dad might get something out of this arrangement, if even only for a short while?

I wonder if he needs to do this in order to assuage his own guilt.

For those of us who were raised with guilt, there is often someone in the family who modeled that same behavior.

It is a way to bargain with an abuser for small scraps of normalcy, even if it's fleeting.

It can create the illusion that we have control over something, when the opposite is often true.

These are great questions, livednlearned.

My dad says he is willing to give her one last chance to change. I then told him that she had many chances to change and that genuine change stems from a person's own desire, devoid of any external incentives or expectations. But then again, I told him she is mentally ill, so it would be impossible to re-wire her brain.

I think he still feels like he could change her because he's really exhausted. He thinks that if he gives in, all their fighting, her aggression, will stop and she will become "normal". I personally think she won't keep her own side of the bargain, even if she wanted to. Her mind is too negative and too complex that she will come up with another sob story that she'll blame him on.

I don't know if my dad is guilty. Maybe he is. I do know that he is deeply embarrassed. But IMO, the hardship he's endured with her is enough reparation to the wrong he's done her. I do not believe he owes her anything. She did not work a day in her life. We even had household help growing up that was in the house 7 days a week. I always believe that when people have all their basic needs taken care of, they start living in their own heads and start worrying about problems that don't exist. This is what happened to her. She had an easy life, she could buy anything she wanted without having to work for it, but she chose to fabricate problems in her own head while other people had to worry about true problems like money, food, water, etc. (Apologies for ranting).

All his income goes to her, even up to this day. He no longer even remembers his ATM pin (where his retirement money goes) because she assumed ownership of it. All of this makes it harder for him to break free from her and be able to live on his own. I'm sure there's a way if he really wanted to, but he fears her so much. He also thinks that he's too old now to start fresh.

[zachira]

It sounds like your dad has not given up on giving your mother second chances. Is there any way you might convince him to get therapy for himself before he marries your mother?

[zanyapple]

It sounds like your dad has not given up on giving your mother second chances. Is there any way you might convince him to get therapy for himself before he marries your mother?

It will be tough to convince him that nor does he have any money since my mother controls all of it. He asks for money from her - which angers me because he's supposed to be the only financial provider in their household, yet he asks money from her like a child.

[zachira]

You might consider exploring learning motivational interviewing which was originally developed for drug addicts and alcoholics, and for decades is used with many different kinds of people. It meets the person where they are at in terms of motivation, including no motivation whatsoever, and helps a person to learn how to think for themselves: evaluate between the positives and negatives before making decisions. Anybody can learn it; you do not have to be a counselor, and there is plenty of free information on how to do it on the internet. It puts the responsibility on the person needing to make changes and relieves the person who is trying to help from being more concerned about this person than they are. A great tool which I have seen do wonders with people who I thought were hopeless to ever make any meaningful changes or grow in any significant ways. Motivational Interviewing teaches effective ways to interact with disordered individuals, instead of trying to persuade a disordered person to make needed changes. 

[Notwendy]

Your parents seem to have a similar arrangement as mine. BPD mother had her needs met. She had household help. Dad earned the money and she controlled it. It didn't change her BPD and you are correct- without tasks to do- she is focused on her own thinking.

I don't think my father was happy in his situation- but he was somehow very committed to it. The bond between my parents seemed disordred but also somehow strong. I also tried to "inform" him- but this turned out to be classic Karpman triangle dynamics. I stepped into "persecutor" role, BPD mother as "victim"- Dad stepped in as "rescuer" and the two of them bonded "against" me.

Trying to help or advise, or rescue my father didn't work and it added fuel to the drama. This rescuer- victim bond seems irresistable to my parents. Consider that this could be the pattern between your parents for decades.

Sometimes my father seemed open to my opinion about BPD mother but then, it seemed he'd come to her "defense" and turn on me.

Here is what I would do - if you father directly asks your opinion- or you feel you need to say something because it's important to you- then say something if it's being true to yourself. However, know that there are possible consequences to you, including damage to your relationship with your father. I think it's better to speak from your perspective rather than say anything about your mother. You might say "Dad, if you don't want to marry her, I am OK with that" so he knows how you feel.

If he doesn't ask or you aren't sure- it may be better to not say anything at all- your father will do what he chooses to do. He's an adult. He's got internet acccess too and can read about BPD. He experiences your mother's behavior all the time. There's not much you can say to him that he doesn't already know- and it's his choice.

There may be other reasons for him to marry her. I don't know how spousal benefits work for elderly people in your country. He may be concerned for her in her elder years. Thank goodness my BPD mother can get the social security spousal benefit as she herself has no work experience. If your father has been supporting your mother all along- then he would not want her to be without support in her elder years.

[zanyapple]

Your parents seem to have a similar arrangement as mine. BPD mother had her needs met. She had household help. Dad earned the money and she controlled it. It didn't change her BPD and you are correct- without tasks to do- she is focused on her own thinking.

I don't think my father was happy in his situation- but he was somehow very committed to it. The bond between my parents seemed disordred but also somehow strong. I also tried to "inform" him- but this turned out to be classic Karpman triangle dynamics. I stepped into "persecutor" role, BPD mother as "victim"- Dad stepped in as "rescuer" and the two of them bonded "against" me.

Trying to help or advise, or rescue my father didn't work and it added fuel to the drama. This rescuer- victim bond seems irresistable to my parents. Consider that this could be the pattern between your parents for decades.

Sometimes my father seemed open to my opinion about BPD mother but then, it seemed he'd come to her "defense" and turn on me.

Here is what I would do - if you father directly asks your opinion- or you feel you need to say something because it's important to you- then say something if it's being true to yourself. However, know that there are possible consequences to you, including damage to your relationship with your father. I think it's better to speak from your perspective rather than say anything about your mother. You might say "Dad, if you don't want to marry her, I am OK with that" so he knows how you feel.

If he doesn't ask or you aren't sure- it may be better to not say anything at all- your father will do what he chooses to do. He's an adult. He's got internet acccess too and can read about BPD. He experiences your mother's behavior all the time. There's not much you can say to him that he doesn't already know- and it's his choice.

There may be other reasons for him to marry her. I don't know how spousal benefits work for elderly people in your country. He may be concerned for her in her elder years. Thank goodness my BPD mother can get the social security spousal benefit as she herself has no work experience. If your father has been supporting your mother all along- then he would not want her to be without support in her elder years.

Thanks for sharing your story @Notwendy.

I know my father isn't happy with their current arrangement. He's been very unhappy for a long time. I asked him a long time ago why he chose to stay. He said, "because of me."

But I'm too old now. I've been an adult for over 2 decades, yet he still has chosen to stay. He has had every opportunity to leave, but I think he also has a lot of fear in my mother, even up to this day. She's the type who is capable of making a scene when she's upset.

It's disgusting to me. She keeps telling me she's an "educated professional" because she graduated college, but she doesn't act like one. She even looks down on people that live in poverty-stricken areas saying they are illiterate and lack good manners, but she is worse than any of that. She always belittles my dad in this aspect because she always says, "he grew up in the slums," but my dad isn't anything like her.

I think this is codependency because he doesn't really step in as a rescuer. Maybe this has happened once or twice, but he's always just been... I don't know... neutral? He tries to step in sometimes to defend me only for my mother to scream "Shut up!" at him. Do you think he might just be too old and has fears of starting fresh? Because I feel like if I had the financial means to move him out, he would gladly do so. I don't think he'll miss her or reach out to her again. I just think needs a head start, but I could be wrong.

I feel he's numb to it. Like he doesn't know how to think anymore or know how to make decisions for himself when it comes to my mother. It's almost like she's controlling a part of his brain. I really just wanted to help him. He's too embarrassed to share this with his friends and they don't have internet access at home, so he doesn't really have any resources.

But maybe he does want to support her, as you said. I remember suggesting to him to move out and he said, "Who's going to take care of your mother now with her eye condition?" But my mother is perfectly fine! Yes, her one eye is technically almost blind, but she has more strength and energy than him; he can barely walk! Yes, he helps out with her eye drops and accompanies her doctor visits, but she is fully capable of doing all of these herself. She's exaggerating her condition. It angers me that she's proposing marriage because she hates him to the bone. Respect is no longer there calling him names like "ugly bald man" or whatever she can think of.

[zanyapple]

You might consider exploring learning motivational interviewing which was originally developed for drug addicts and alcoholics, and for decades is used with many different kinds of people. It meets the person where they are at in terms of motivation, including no motivation whatsoever, and helps a person to learn how to think for themselves:

Thank you, @zachira. I will look into this. I think this was actually what my previous career counselor did because I remember her not making any explicit suggestions. I remember her just asking questions and helping me unravel answers myself.

[Strawberry29]

zanyapple, one thing that I would ask is: do you think this wedding would change anything? My understanding from what you say is that he will most likely keep living with her exactly the same way, whether or not they get married? Same as they have been doing for ages without knowing about the non-existing marriage.
Not sure what my advice would be, but just asking as I think it might be important to focus on what might really make a change, and perhaps just the wedding itself is not what to focus on?
It must be very tough to see your dad in such a situation and not wanting to get out of it.

[zanyapple]

zanyapple, one thing that I would ask is: do you think this wedding would change anything? My understanding from what you say is that he will most likely keep living with her exactly the same way, whether or not they get married? Same as they have been doing for ages without knowing about the non-existing marriage.
Not sure what my advice would be, but just asking as I think it might be important to focus on what might really make a change, and perhaps just the wedding itself is not what to focus on?
It must be very tough to see your dad in such a situation and not wanting to get out of it.

You're right. Nothing will change. This was what I was telling my dad. While I believe he's inclined to not give in, a part of him seems to still have the possibility of falling for her nonsense.

[livednlearned]

Are there downsides to getting married?

[zanyapple]

Are there downsides to getting married?

She gets what she wants which I believe will perpetuate her bad behavior..

[Notwendy]

Yes, but your father is part of this too. I used to think somehow my father wasn't as much a part of this dynamic as my mother was, and as if my advice would help or even work. It didn't. You father is a grown adult and he makes his own decisions. You ( and I also ) see their relationship from a different perspective.

My BPD mother gets what she wants too. However - this was a long standing behavior pattern between my parents- something I had no real imput to. He was as drawn into it as she is.

One risk of intervening is that the two of them may bond in unity against you (Karpman triangle). It was like a switch turned. Dad would seem logically concerned about BPD mother's request or behavior- I'd agree and then next thing- he's aligned with what she wants.

You see this as an opportunity for your father to change directions but he's chosen to stay with your mother all this time. If she pressures you to sponsor her for a green card- you can hold your boundary on your end and not do it. I know that isn't an easy thing to do.

[zachira]

One thing you might try with your father is to ask him why he wants to marry your mother and get him to list as many reasons as you can while you stay neutral and pleasantly curious. If you can get him to talk long enough, like probably at least an hour, at some point maybe then or even a few days later, he may begin to talk about all the reasons why he does not want to marry her, and may come to a reasonable decision which he may or may not stick to. I have seen this work with the most disordered individuals, seemingly unable to make decisions that most of us are able to make. I see many disordered individuals as having missed the chance to have someone listen to them and validate them beginning in childhood, so they stay stuck in not being able to stand up for themselves and blow with the wind, easily manipulated by people and circumstances. I realize this is a long shot in the dark and may not be helpful. You may not want to be involved at all, just plain worn out and sad from being stuck in the middle of the constant unhealthy drama between your parents.