When dealing with PAS, its important to understand the source.

Some PAS is driven by the child.  Some PAS by the other parent.  Some PAS by our own actions.  And then there are all the combinations of the above.

One of the issues of alienated children that isn't widely discussed is the issue that many parents are alienating before the family divorces or separates.  Many people here who divorced or are divorcing their spouse found that their children had been systematically alienated from them when the family was living together in the home.

Alienating behaviors while the family is together include:

1.  Alienating parent doesn't allow the other parent to eat with the children or doesn't cook for the other parent... only him/herself and the children.

2.  Alienating parent takes over all school/doctor functions and doesn't give the other parent any information, advance dates, etc. 

3.  Alienating parent engages in "you and me against the world" behavior with the kids.  The other parent is the odd person out.

4... Alienating parent is disrespectful or abusive to the other parent in front of the kids.

5.  Alienating parent often takes the child places without the other parent... .even if the other parent is available and wants to go.

6.  Alienating parent complains to the kids that the other parent isn't around ("See?  We can't count on him/her.  He/she's never around." even if the other parent is working and providing for the family.

7.  Alienating parent may sleep with the children and not with the spouse.

This is not a complete list, but it is more likely that these children will become increasingly alienated after separation/divorce proceedings start.

As I read through Blackandwhite's account of being raised in a family in which both parents were alienating, I wondered how many people here are in similar situations...   That is, while we know that the other parent is alienating, we don't see alienating behaviors in ourselves.

Signs of this might be:

1.  Tone of voice:  As mentioned above, just using the term "your father" or "your mother" with a particular tone of voice will indicate to your kids loudly and clearly that the other parent is somehow "not good".

2.  Anxiety if the other parent is picking up the kids or doing something with them:  Some here have had parents who have kidnapped their children or abused them.  But there are other parents who allow their anxiousness towards the other parent to color the way they react when the other parent is around or mentioned.  Children should feel free to mention the other parent in the other parent's presence.  Our own attitude towards the other parent needs to be monitored carefully so it doesn't come out in tone of voice, snide comments, or an agitated facial expression.  (This is very hard to do, even for those of us who are really working on not alienating our children.)     

3.  Making mountains out off molehills-- Picking on the other parent if he/she isn't perfect or if he/she does things that are "different" .  Being five or ten minutes late isn't the same as being consistently an hour or two late.  The other parent may not feed the children what you consider an acceptable diet... but there's really nothing wrong with macaroni and cheese or ramen noodles.  (The children may be gaining weight due to emotional overeating due to the stress between the parents and not because mom or dad feeds them occasional fast food.)  Make sure you aren't overreacting to things between you and the other parent that are just "different".  Commenting to the kids "You went to McDonald's again?" in a tone of voice that makes it clear that you disapprove is alienating--you are teaching the child that the other parent isn't "good".  If you have a legitimate concern about what the kids eat at the other parent's house, you need to discuss it calmly with the other parent... .But first decide if it is worth the aggravation. 

4.  Not encouraging visitation... .  There have been a few situations here in which visitation with the other parent might actually be dangerous.  But in most situations, even those involving an emotionally-challenged spouse, nothing bad is going to happen if the children visit with that parent.  It is up to the other parent to encourage friendly visitation, even if the kid doesn't want to go.  Twelve year olds should not be making decisions about whether or not they see the other parent.  Actually neither should 15 or 16 year olds.  If your teenager is hesitant to visit with the other parent, it is up to you to encourage that visit.           

I'm sure there are more.  But the point is that almost all of us who share children with an emotionally-challenged ex-spouse can probably clean up our acts and behave more positively towards our children's other parent.  Our children deserve to love both of their parents, no matter how useless we think the other one is. 

I consider myself very fortunate that PAS was stopped midway through the divorce. I can never know the reason for that. Perhaps it is because the things I did were effective or just that the BPD mom was able to see it wasn't right or maybe a family member of hers saw it and spoke up. I can never know what got it to stop, but it was headed in a very bad direction.

After we separated by way of RO (in my favor) and the temp custody order was tilted quite in my favor, she started her quest to get back custody. The kids were 2 and 4 yrs. She would make the kids cry when dropping them off to come home. She did this by acting as if it was goodbye forever, and not doing the right thing and highlighting that it is time to be with daddy and they'll see mommy again in a few days. Not, the way they were sent back to me it was clear she was working them up.

Then my daughter started asking wierd questions, like "Is Grandma mean?" I'd say, "no, why do you ask?" Her response would be "Because mommy said Grandma is mean and hits us". This referring of course to my mother, who testified against her at the RO hearing as a first-hand witness of her assaulting me. My daughter would basically question me abotu everything her mother had tried to put in her head. I woudl simply ask her "What do you think? You've spent time with grandma, is shew nice or mean?" She'd answer nice, then I'd ask "Has grandma ever hit you?" and she'd ansewr "no". I'd just help her reform her own perception based on her own personal experience with my mother. Then I'd ask if mommy said those things, and she'd tell me yes. I would tell her it isn't right that mommy says those things, and it is OK if you tell her to stop talking abotu your grandma that way.

Then she started coming back telling me the things mommy said about me... .that I hit and lock her in her room. Again, I'd just ask her questions to help her reform her own perception... .and she'd start asking eventually why mommy says these things, and I'd just tell her it isn't OK for her to say this and it IS OK for her to tell mommy to stop talking about my daddy that way.

Then of course eventually I got a GF, and my D started coming back with similar questions about her, and it would identify the things mommy was trying to plant in her mind. That she is mean, hits her, etc. Again, I woudl just ask her questions to help her refrom her own perception, but I didn't tell her it is OK to tell mommy to stop.

Eventually my daughter came back telling me how mommy told her to call 911 and say I was hitting her... .I just asked her questions to take that mental programming away. By telling the D to call 911 WHEN I hit her, it is programming her THAT I DO hit her. So I just asked her ":)o I hit you?" She'd answer no. So I'd say, well then you don't need to call 911 because of that, do you?

And not long after that, CPS called me asking to interview me and my GF as my wife had launched formal allegations of abuse to our D by me and GF. I guess it came to a head that she felt maybe her programming was effective enough and it was time to make the move. I have to hand it to her, it was a very well coordinated and premeditated attack... .

The custody situation was that she had kids from 6pm sat through 6pm tues... .but I had started letting her have through 6pm thurs every other week to even the time out. That was a verbal agreement and the custody order wasn't modified to reflect that.

So, what she did is pick up the kids sat eve, then sometime on Sunday she called CPS and made the allegations. Probably hoping and expected an immediate response from CPS. She might have even caused marks herself to preare for this -- who knows. For whatever reason, CPS did not immediately respond. Probably because the kids weren't due to come back to me, the alleged abuser, for several days so the kids weren't at risk.

On monday morning I get a text from the person we agreed could communicate to me abotu matters having to do with the kids. I had no idea of the CPS allegations at this time, I wouldn't find out about that until later in the day. The text message said D was sick and couldn't go to school, and would need to stay out of school the entire week, and specifically told me I'd have to miss work and stay home with her. I responded saying I would assess the health of D on my own, and exercise my own judgement, and maybe yes I'd keep her out of school or perhaps not.

Later in the day I get a call from CPS saying they want to speak to me and GF as soon as possible, it will be simple and straightforward but they needed to speak to us to get this situation behind all of us... .I said, what situation? HE then backed up and explained the allegations and who made them (which he probably wasn't supposed to do).

OK, now I see her coordinated manuevers clearly. She programs D over the course of a couple months, decides to make her move, and tells me she is keeping D out of school due to illness. What she ewas really doing was keeping D out of school so that when CPS interviewed the school, whcih they would by procedure, the school woudl say "we can't say if we saw any marks or not because she wasn't here... .and oddly she was out the entire week". She was trying to set it up so that the school has doubt because my daughters absence from school aligns with the timing of the alleged abuse. And she was trying to get me to help by saying I'd keep D out of school the end of the week.

So Mon night we speak with CPS in my home, the interview us, check the kids rooms, look for evidence of drug/alcohol because she also put that in the allegation. CPS tells me they will complete their mandatory investigationa nd close it out, and that the next steps are to examine the child. I said, "You haven't already done that?" He said they were going to do it tues night.

Now I see the child exam by CPS is happenign in mothers presence, where she can influence the child, but technically tues night is my time. So I thought it might be a good idea to claim back my time. Then I realized if I did that, I could also get D back in school much sooner to alleviate that suspicion she was trying to brew up. So I texted the person that was our go between and said I expected the kids back Tues at 6pm as per the original court order with no explanation.

I didn't hear anything back. At 4:45pm I get a call form a judge in family court, where an emergent hearing is underway, on motion by my wife tro have the court order she keep the kids through the end of week on the basis that D is ill and cannot come home to me. No mention of the CPS stuff... .

I get sworn in and the judge (a lady) starts by asking if we can make this simple and I just agree to it... .and I said no. That didn't please the judge. The judhge asked "Can you explain why... ." So I said, first off, I can't even really assume the child is really sick and ask if the mother brought anything from the dr to substantiate the claim of this illness. Judge got torqued off, and yelled at me "If the mother says the kid is sick, the kid is sick! She came in here carrying a bag of vomit! Don't play Matlock in my courtroom!"

But then she turned toward my wife and asked ":)o you have anything from the doc... ." And teh answer was yes but she left it in the car. The judge yelled at her now because when you request a hearing you have to bring your proof, etc. When the judge was done admonishing her for that, and there was silence, I asked to speak and started to try to explain how the wife had the whole CPS thing going also, but I got about a half sentence out and the judge said "I'm done with you" and hung up.

I expected the shrriff to knock my door later that night to give me a copy of the order, but instead my wife pulled up around 7pm with the kids. She had still lost the motion and was told to return the kids. This was February in NJ and there was snow on the ground, and after all this crapping around in court claiming our D was so ill, she dropped the kids off later that night with no coats, in their PJ's, with no shoes. And since the RO prevented her from coming onto the property se pulled up and put them on the ground to walk across the yard with no shoes on.

First thing I did was take D's temp with a digital in-the-ear type thermometer and it was absolutely normal. I asked if she wasn't feeling well, she said "no, fine daddy". I asked if she was sick... .she said no. She was playing and bouncing around the hosue just fine, ate a lot of dinner, so before bed I asked if she wanted to go to school tomorrow and she said "Yeah". So she went to school and we carried on with the week.

But looking at it, the coordination was impressive... .she wanted to coordinate the CPS allegations with a false illness, keep D out of school to create suspicion there, then get a judge to order her to keep the kids the remainder of the week -- there are two poitns to the court order: 1) so she can continue keeping D from school to create that suspicion, and also so she could show CPS the order and say "I went ot court to get an order to keep them from him temporarily because of this abuse! You see, the order woudl just state what the judge was ordering, not why... .she would use the order and position it with CPS that a judge determined abuse was substantiated and influence CPS with that order.

All that failed. During my own interview with CPS, I did tell CPS of the things my daughter told me that made it clear the mother was programming her, and told CPS that they might want to consider asking my wife about this. Maybe they did... .

In any event, after all that came to a head, and failed, it all stopped. Or at least there was a period of calm. A few weeks later we were back in court on a motion by her wanting to reverse the custody order. Claiimign the kids are unhappy, they need her, that I beat them and lock them in their room, etc. When I showed up for that hearing I cam armed with a JPA (joint parenting agreement). In that agreement I was proposing 50/50 time, with a better schedule for both of us to get better quality time with the kids, provisions for vacations and holidays, and a couple pages of terms & conditions -- within thise T&C's was that neither of us would speak of the other parent or theiur relatives in negative light, as that woudl be emotional abuse to teh children, and upon that occuring the agreement would be nullified. I also included a page from one of the national organization on PAS explaingin what PAS is and how it is bad for the kids. I sent this to her a few days before the hearing so she could review and be prepared.

She showed up at the hearing with an L, and the L went over it with me and reauested a few minor changes to some holiday's etc. And we made the changes and signed it and got in front of the judge to make it our new custody schedule and parenting agreement. The judge asked my wife if she agreed to the JPA and was withdrawing her motion, adn she said yes. Judge prasied us both for coming to a resolution and agreement because we the parents are the only ones that truly know what is in our kids best interests so we shoudl be the ones to figure it out and not have it handed down from a court.

After that, the temperature changed dramatically. Kids showed up happy, father's day came and she took the kids to buy a card and helped them draw on it, etc. The JPA also extended me the right to take the kids out of state as long as it was on my time, and she could see clearly that and the schedule and the provisions for vacation was so I could take the kids to see grandma and grandpa -- something she told the kids would never happen again.

It all sort of went away because her motivation was to try it as a tactic to win custody, and that didn't work. But what did work was a JPA. And probably her L, who was brand new representing her, probably had some time to explain that what she was doing was damaging to her position shoudl a custody battle come about.

I'm no expert in this PAS stuff, but logically it would seem to me that the far majority of PAS is really just about trying to win custody and not really push the other parent out of their kids lives. So my recommendation is when you see PAS, and it seems motivated by custody, quickly get a JPA in place and be objective and give the BPD reaonable time as is in the best interests of the kids. That very well might end all the BS. Even if the BPD has a temp custody order in place that favors the BPD, the BPD still might just be jocking so the other parent can't win custody completely.

In my experience, getting a 50/50 JPA in place pretty much ended the custody dispute AND all the nastiness around it, including but not limited to PAS. At the time it was a hard decision to extend her 50/50 when she was behaving as she was, but deep inside I had faith it woudl end the BS. And it did.

That isn't going to be the case for everyone. There are BPD's that truly are motivated at painting you black and poioning the kids that way to align the kids on their crusade to deem you the bad one. How do you know what their motivation is? I can't say. For me it was in my gut... .but also was helped by thinking that if we entered the JPA and the BS continued, I would petition the court to have the JPA nullified based on whatever BS she continued, and have the temp order restored. Not sure if that would have worked legally, but probably.

If you can possibly have some plan to protect yourself in the event you make the 50/50 offer and it turns out the BS doesn't stop, then that is best. Talk to your L on ways to possiblky do that. I was taking a huge risk. But it paid off because fom that day on my kids were never subject to PAS or any other BS again. That validated I made the right decision in taking that risk because the kids are better off with both parents in their lives after all -- and had I waited longer to get a JPA in place the BS would have just been prolonged.

Also, that time we were in court agreeing to the JPA and the judge commended us, that was the first time my ex had ever been in court woithout getting her ass handed to her by that very same judge. That act by that judge was probably very powerful because my ex saw for the first time "if I do the right thing, I get what I want and don't get in trouble or embarrased in court." The amount of pain she had endured in court up to that point was significant, so this was probably a factor in ending the BS too.

Some other observations of alienating behavior.

•   The bit about scheduling activities such as Dr. appts. without giving me notice, or conveniently giving me last minute notice;

•   Openly rejecting clothes I pick out for the kids, rationalizing the kids NOT wearing the clothes I pick out for them – in front of them;

•   There have been a few cases (technically I guess this is not alienation) where STBx has done the complete opposite of what I request regarding the children, in some cases putting the child in danger to simply not give me the satisfaction of hearing my request.  For instance, leaving S2.5 outside in the morning – after I requested he stay inside while I get dressed upstairs – while she drives out of the driveway to go to work.  She had left him outside by himself with no one around.  I’m beginning to think possibly this was to enstill some sense of wanting in S2.5 as mommy drove off to work;

•   Also, the alienation has been applied to my parents.  At the same time that I filed, S5 would become hostile and upset about seeing his grandparents.  I know this can happen with little kids, but this was a little strange.  He has always looked forward to seeing his grandparents especially my dad.  On one occasion we were walking up to their house and he started running the other way.  Preparing for one visit, I had heard STBx telling S5, “It’s OK if you don’t want to go, if you get there and you want to come home just call mommy,” just putting some sense of doubt in his little head;

•   STBx resists any efforts I make to “parent” or develop good habits and routines – like allowing eating dinner in front of the TV or allowing S5 to fall asleep every night in front of the TV instead of in his bed.

I could also add my observations and changes in S5’s demeanor toward me over the 13 months since I field for divorce.

Coincident with my filing, I was no longer able to read bedtime stories to S5.  I don’t know what happened, what STBx was doing – granted, if anything, but it is very suspicious with the timing.  He would at times almost get violent, screaming at me, “I WANT MOMMY TO READ TO ME!  I DON’T WANT YOU!”  I would say, “What’s wrong, why?  Daddy wants to read to you too.”  He would respond, “IT’S YOU!”

S5 can quickly become bored with activities with me. 

S5 has also showed a lack of interest in trying new things and becomes quickly frustrated and gives up.  An example is ice skating.  Resistance to trying new things. 

There was a period where S5 was regularly waking up in the middle of the night asking for “mommy.”  Mommy had started this conditioning by sleeping with S5 when he asked. 

I wish I could offer others advice on how to correct similar things, but it is very difficult to make changes with a BPD presiding over your ever move.  I just tell both children I love them, all the time, no matter what and hope that helps.  In addition to just keeping my cool in the house. 

   

It is worth staying watchful after the divorce in particular with smaller children.

My divorced father was very loving and well behaved with us until we became teenagers. Only then he shared his distortions and of course they were so horrible that we could not share it with our mother. Us being teenagers probably triggered some form of abandonment in him. His distortions forced us to deal with a lot of different realities in our heads. The need to integrate them may have lead to a strong sense of self in myself and the exact opposite in my BPD sister.

The environment in my fathers extended family was very warm and validating. My mother and her family were not really capable of validation. As kids we felt the warmth of my father very clearly while my non mother was quite remote. The importance of validation also post break-up on the non side can not be overestimated.

This is pretty interesting--

My uBPDh has worked successfully to alienate our grown daughter and her husband from me. I realize they had to be open to this, and I've seen them take sides before about other issues (very black and white thinking.) They also live in another country so they haven't been around to see how his treatment of me has deteriorated over the years. The grown children who live closer seem to "get" why I left, and have only dealt with the usual issues of what to do when their family isn't intact as before with mom and dad living in the same house.

It's pretty fascinating to see how this alienation process can work on people even in their late 30s, at least if there's something for them to also get out of it. It's the most attention they've received from him in years!