FAQ: BPD and thyroid disorders?

[BPDFamily.com]

Thanks for your reply. The reason I ask, when my uBPDw's BPD symptoms increased the following happened at the same time: her libido fell off the chart, she developed adult acne, weight gain, anxiety and depression. All these conditions developed and increased slowly over a 4 year period despite dietary changes, exercise and various medications.

New to the group and your post really caught my eye.  Our oldest may have BPD and am researching.  She recently underwent surgery to remove a tumor on her pituitary and early in her illness exhibited all the same symptoms you note in your wife .  She was treated for depression, anxiety, weight issues, adult acne, etc... .without success.  She was finally diagnosed with Cushings.  My husband and I are shocked that these might tie into each other.  Her health is slowly improving but she is having emotional issues that are complicating things.

[tiredmommie]

Thanks for your reply. The reason I ask, when my uBPDw's BPD symptoms increased the following happened at the same time: her libido fell off the chart, she developed adult acne, weight gain, anxiety and depression. All these conditions developed and increased slowly over a 4 year period despite dietary changes, exercise and various medications.

New to the group and your post really caught my eye.  Our oldest may have BPD and am researching.  She recently underwent surgery to remove a tumor on her pituitary and early in her illness exhibited all the same symptoms you note in your wife .  She was treated for depression, anxiety, weight issues, adult acne, etc... .without success.  She was finally diagnosed with Cushings.  My husband and I are shocked that these might tie into each other.  Her health is slowly improving but she is having emotional issues that are complicating things.

[Dnvrliz]

I have been diagnosed with BPD sometime back in 1996.  Of course I have been through the gamut of doctors and meds.  I just wanted to say that I am not sure if BPD has any link to thyroid but I do know that it has a link to Female menstrual problems.  This has been the first time I have had any type of relief from my symptoms of BPD.  I found a compounder that made me up some ALL NATURAL PROGESTERONE for some female problems, and I have come to find out that my BPD symptoms are not only controllable but also non existent since I have been taking the Progesterone.

So it might not be for everyone but for me I had a bad lack of Progesterone, not saying I am cured but I am saying that after having BPD symptoms with no relief and now I am great I highly recommend that women should talk to their doctors about this, its worth a shot.


I hope this helps someone... .

Good luck.

Liz Jake.

[iluminati]

OK, this is a bit of a weird query, and I encourage the medically trained folk to chip in.  First, allow me to give a bit of background.  A few months ago, Ms. Elm City was put on Abilify to help stabilize her moods. The unfortunate side effect is some significant weight gain and food cravings to the point it was putting pressure on her joints and causing a bit of a snoring issue.  Also, while my wife's moods stabilized, she noticed that she was feeling more depressed, not less.  Finally, after getting the snoring issue (and thus saving our marriage  ) with some Breathe Right strips, she was snoring less, sleeping a LOT less (from ~14-16 hours a day down now to 9) but feeling even more depressed.  As a result, she called her Pdoc, who asked that she and I come in for an emergency meeting.

After asking my wife and I what was going on with her, he suggested that she get formally worked up for thyroid issues and prescribed her Cytomel to raise her thyroid levels.  I was a bit perplexed, as while I've heard a bit about a putative connection between thyroid issues and borderline, no one had suggested that she take meds for it or get her thyroid levels check out.  :)oes anyone else have experience with this?

[Jaybird]

The same year my H started exhibiting BPD symptoms he was diagnosed with a gluten intolerance (not Celiac's) which led to a fatty liver and thyroid problems.  I have often wondered if there was a connection. He takes Synthroid. He is also being treated for depression.

[KateCat]

A thyroid work-up is a great thing for almost any woman suffering from non-specific problems like depression, fatigue, swollen joints, snoring, dry skin, weight gain. Thyroid function can affect every cell in the body and can certainly have an impact on mood. Nobody really knows how many people--at least 80% of them women--are experiencing reduced quality of life due to undiagnosed thyroid problems. If your wife should prove to be "hypothyroid," she may very well have more than one improvement to look forward to in her health if she gets replacement treatment (e.g., Synthroid). It's definitely worth a test.

[BPDFamily]

Sometime members look at resonses like this an come away with a distorted idea of the incidence of a condition.  lease remember, this is not a statitically relavent sample of members - as thousands have read this only 200 have responded.

[Steph]

It seems that just putting her on cytomel without labs first is unconventional, since there hasnt been no diagnosis. What did he say?

[KateCat]

It seems that just putting her on cytomel without labs first is unconventional

That's what I'm thinking too. If I went to my doctor and asked for Cytomel without any lab proof that I needed it, she'd probably ask me if I also wanted a side order of meth or jet fuel to go along with that.

Sometimes it's simple, but sometimes it's tricky to get just the right regimen of thyroid meds. Very worth the effort, though.

[iluminati]

Thanks for the responses.  From what I've seen on the lab sheet (full disclosure: I'm a licensed medical technologist in my home state), they did the full thyroid panel with T3, T4 and TSH.  It looks like they're looking for primary and secondary deficiency issues.  The plan, from what I understand, is to use the labs and a baseline and see how my wife feels as a result of the meds.  She has a pre-scheduled appointment for 10 days from now, so the P doc is using that appointment as an opportunity to go over the labs and see how she's feeling.  The plan is that if this works out that my wife will be taken off of the Abilify.

From what I gathered in the meeting, the doc wanted to give the Cytomel a shot based on the symptoms that were being described.  Also, he made a point to mention that a) this is a bit of a new therapeutic approach and b) the plan is to slowly bring her up to the right level of medication, all while monitoring her labs.  On top of that, my wife is in a bit of a unique treatment situation, where her T and P doc operate out of a local mental hospital that, in turn, shares a larger campus with a local medical center, complete with a large onsite lab.  Maybe this is one of those state of the art things. 

Anyway, I'll let you know how this turns out.  I'll mention to my wife about the whole sleeping contest. 

[KateCat]

OK, I think I'm jealous. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis all the way back in 1991, and if anyone has ever checked my actual T3 levels they've never told me about it.

I've heard that some psychiatrists are now trying patients on a short course of T3 before they just hand them an antidepressant. Cool! With your medical background, you're in a position to come to a good understanding of the different types of thyroid disorders that have been identified and the ways they are being treated. It's kind of exciting stuff, but hard for most of us not in the medical professions to understand, even when we know it impacts us so critically. I personally wish more endocrinologists would specialize in the thyroid branch of things these days, but it's hard to argue with turning most of the endocrine attention to the important matters of diabetes.

[kj1234]

One of the posts mentioned anemia.  My uBPDstbxw had pretty severe anemia, but I never heard any thyroid problem mentioned.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT This board is intended for general questions about BPD and other personality disorders, trait definitions, and related therapies and diagnostics. Topics should be formatted as a question. Please do not host topics related to the specific pwBPD in your life - those discussions should be hosted on an appropraite [L1] - [L4] board. You will find indepth information provided by our senior members in our workshop board discussions (click here).

[iluminati]

First, you can thank Skip for putting me on this post.  He merged the threads.  Also (and pardon me if this is a issue with different English dialects) it was her psychiatrist that suggested the thyroid thing, not her GP or primary care physician.  My wife doesn't have one of those, but that's a whole different story.  As of right now, the meds seem to be giving my wife more energy and a better mood in general.  I'm not sure how much this will effect the BPD stuff, but it is making a bit of a difference in a hurry.  What I do hope is that it'll allow her to move in on those issues that have to do with the BPD.  We'll see.

[Sharonon]

Hi iluminati. Could be I got confused as there can be a difference in word usage between the US & Australia. Thanks for explaining that & the merging of topics   .

Interesting that her medication is helping with some things. Here's hoping. That could make both your lives better if it holds up. Of course the BPD will still be lurking around. But better is better & maybe she will be less burdened if some things are sorted out. Hey, she may even lose weight & that will cheer her up.

By the way, though I don't mean this as an ad hominem argument as I am wary of them, I experienced some thyroid underactive woes after the birth of my 3rd child (of 4). I had felt great after a great pregnancy & a new baby, & then whammo I was as tired as & that affected how much I felt I could deal with. The GP mistakenly diagnosed Hashimoto's Thyroiditis & prescribed me oroxin for what he ASSUMED was a permanently underactive thyroid. I was surging with the most wonderful energy for 2 days & cleaned my house from top to bottom, plus dealing with everything else, & then I went hyper & found it hard to focus & almost had a smash with all the kids in the car because I didn't notice an oncoming car with right of way. By the way, I had gone back to my GP & complained - I was told I was really concentrating - sure!. I then insisted on a referral to an endocrinologist & he told me my thyroid underactivity was pregnancy & birth related & would pass if he took me off the medication. He was right. My point is that these drugs are powerful & correct diagnosis is important. Hopefully the new medication is what your wife needs.

[KateCat]

My point is that these drugs are powerful & correct diagnosis is important.

You are so very right, Sharonon. I never really knew what the fluctuations of Hashimoto's + the use of a powerful drug with a "narrow therapeutic range" could mean until I experienced some of the things you mention.

[Sharonon]

Hi KateCat. Yes, indeed.

I was told to have regular thyroid checks for ever after that, but the GPs lost interest as my overall thyroid result never went under again, even after the birth of my last child (a long time ago now).

I left out & I want to mention it to give credit where credit is due, I came through that thyroid medication disaster thanks to a specialist Nursing Mother's advisor I rang for advice re breast feeding & the medication, & to a friend I spoke to after that very near car accident & which was averted because the other driver slammed on the brakes. Fortunately for me, both questioned the GPs decisions & that led me to take more helpful (to me) action. The GP had been very difficult all along & quite bullying. I can still remember how she stood up behing her desk, bright red & angry, when I went back the last time & requested the referral to the endocrinologist as the result of the support I had received. But I got it as I just said calmly that I wanted the referral & wasn't going to keep taking the medication till I saw him or her. She was not happy but she gave it to me & the rest is history (& so was she for me  ).

[fred6]

Not sure if it's related, but my ex's temp was always off. When I was cold she was sweating and when I was hot she was under the blankets. This was before I knew anything about BPD or her splitting from me. I always told her to get her thyroid checked. She never listened, big surprise there, ... .

[hattrick]

From what I know hypothyroidism makes people cold and not hot. Mine was constantly cold even in the summer. I went to her place one time and it was 85 degrees in the house. I asked her why the A/C wasn't on and she said it was. She said maybe she could turn it down to 80 but she would need to get a hoodie and maybe a blanket.

[1989]

I have thyroid issues.  Hyper can cause agitation, anxiety, anger.  Too little causes depression, slowness, fatigue, breathlessness, fogginess (it felt like I was experiencing life through a gauzy material), which felt like detachment at times.  There are close to 30 symptoms of hypo.  Thyroid issues are very serious and can have a huge impact on personality.

[1989]

Obviously, a thyroid issue won't cause abandonment/engfulfment fears, but it could make it more difficult to deal in a pwBPD. 

www.hypothyroidmom.com/300-hypothyroidism-symptoms-yes-really/

[hattrick]

Obviously, a thyroid issue won't cause abandonment/engfulfment fears, but it could make it more difficult to deal in a pwBPD. 

www.hypothyroidmom.com/300-hypothyroidism-symptoms-yes-really/

True but it can cause paranoia, depression etc.

[MissyM]

I am hypothyroid and it runs on both sides of my family.  One side has mental health issues and the other doesn't.  My dBPDh has low thyroid but it is a symptom of hypopituitary and I have been told by a doctor that hypopituitary symptoms can overlap with BPD.  Hypopituitary means that they are low in several hormones, for my dBPDh he has critically low testosterone and HGH, as well as low T3/T4.  So I am wondering if the hypothyroids that have overlapping BPD symptoms actually are hypopituitary.  It took years of going to doctors and some very strange symptoms for my dBPDh to get a diagnosis of hypopituitary.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT This board is intended for general questions about BPD and other personality disorders, trait definitions, and related therapies and diagnostics. Topics should be formatted as a question. Please do not host topics related to the specific pwBPD in your life - those discussions should be hosted on an appropraite [L1] - [L4] board. You will find indepth information provided by our senior members in our workshop board discussions (click here).

[JRT]

Do thyroid problems contribute to BPD?

[enlighten me]

Hi JRT

There does seem to be a link with thyroid and BPD. As to whether it is part of the cause or just a side effect i cant say.

My personal opinion is that its a side effect. As some research shows that pwBPD have low oxytocin levels so their cortisol levels may be elevated. Cortisol can affect thyroid. It can act as hormone suppressor so even though thyroid level may appear normal it is not working at its full potential.

This is only a theory that ive pieced together from reading about hormones and how they interact.

[JRT]

interesting... .mine had thyroid problems for which she took some medication... .I came up in an article but was vague for me... .so does it contribute to to BPD or is it a byproduct of BPD?

[enlighten me]

Both my exs were slightly anaemic. There have been a number of posts on co morbid conditions. Anaemia, thyroid, fibromyalgia, migranes to name but a few. If you look into the causes of these one posibility that can affect all of them is elevated cortisol. If you look up elevated cortisol affects you will see a lot of BPD behaviours listed.

If like I said pwBPD have lower than normal oxytocin then it will take longer for cortisol to reduce back to normal levels after a stressfull event as oxytocin is released to calm the fight or flight caused by cortisol.

Like I said just a theory of mine but have a read up on cortisol and see what you think.

[Skip]

Maybe not.

Is there a relationship or is it dual diagnosis?  This suggests the later - or a lack of evidence to support the former.

Circulating thyroid autoantibodies are more prevalent in patients with mood disorders than in the general population, but longitudinal clinical data that establish a relationship between thyroid antibody status and the course of any psychiatric syndrome have been lacking. In addition, scant attention has been paid to thyroid hormones and autoimmunity in borderline personality disorder (BPD).

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12897379

Thyroid disease affects the moods of most, but it is ampified in people with mood conditions such as:

~atypical depression (which may present as dysthymia)

~bipolar spectrum syndrome (including manic-depression, mixed mania, bipolar depression, rapid-~cycling bipolar disorder, cyclothymia, and premenstrual syndromes)

~borderline personality disorder

~or psychotic disorder (typically paranoid psychosis).

www.currentpsychiatry.com/home/article/identifying-hypothyroidisms-psychiatric-presentations/190d5808f9bdd646cf3a8560587e35cc.html

[Hawk Ridge]

Take this with a grain of salt but perhaps it may help with perspective.   As a woman who struggles with Hashimoto's (hypo and hyper thyroid), adrenal fatigue, and is menopause (and is a health nut), I have looked for alternative solutions to taking medications.  This triad of  hormones interacts and interplays making the outcome a delicate balance. Yes, i struggle with depression, have since my teen years. At the onset of my disease in my early 40's, I was exhausted and gaining weight, a very common sign.  I live in a northern state, further away from the equator, a location where the soil is not iodine rich as it is in cultures where thyroid disease is not as prominent.  Since diagnosis, I have begun to realize how incredibly common this disease is, some studies cite as many as 80% in women.  Additionally, when considering how the preservatives, pesticides, genetically modified food products have entered our food markets, it is no wonder our bodies are now entertaining foreign substances that are creating this disease.  Sure, BPD is diagnosed more but likely this is due to advances in mental health diagnostic techniques more than anything else.  I think this correlation between BPD and thyroid disease is likely not reliable due the factors I have mentioned above. Additionally, BPD is related more to dysfunction with the amygdala, executive functioning, and the type of environment one was raise in.  I can tell you as someone whose expwBPD emotionally abused me, it was not helpful to the depression and thyroid disease I already had but I believe, because so many of us, men and women, have thyroid disease that it is not the cause or correlated with BPD. Again, take it for what is worth.

[AskingWhy]

This triad of  hormones interacts and interplays making the outcome a delicate balance. Yes, i struggle with depression, have since my teen years. At the onset of my disease in my early 40's, I was exhausted and gaining weight, a very common sign. 

There is a strong link between thy roid disorders and psychiatric disorders.  Too many doctors, including psychiatrists who should know better, don't know this.  An untreated or under treated thy roid problem can appear like BPD, depression, anxiety or bi polar.

https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/ya-ya/

[iluminati]

Following up waaay after the fact, but I figured that this would be useful information.  In 2015, my now ex-wife had surgery to deal with an enlarged thyroid.  I don't know what other treatments she's gone through since, but it seems like the thyroid problems were legit if she ended up needing surgery for them.  Just some food for thought.

[AskingWhy]

This is a very good article from medical sources on thyroid disease and mental disorders.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC419396/