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Author Topic: Is This Forum Objective?  (Read 18732 times)
Matt
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« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2013, 01:36:19 AM »

I don't entirely agree, Themis.

Objective testing like the MMPI-2 shows that people with BPD think very differently.

And the one person I know very well who has been diagnosed with BPD has behavior patterns that are not like anyone else I know.

Nobody else I know - except maybe small kids - reacts to any problem by blaming someone else - usually within seconds.  If the car has a problem, you can be sure that she will immediately say, "You should have taken it to be checked out!  Now we'll have a huge repair bill!".

Nobody else I know deals with fatigue by complaining constantly til she goes to sleep.

Nobody else I know would make a false criminal accusation - it's just very extreme behavior that most people would never even think of doing.

These very unusual behavior patterns are hard to deal with, and worth discussing here, to understand our choices and figure out the best path forward.  So of course we don't spend much time talking about what they do that is fine - that's not what we need help with.  We focus on the behaviors that cause us problems, and what we can do to cope with them, or avoid them.

BPD and other personality disorders are psychological disorders recognized by the medical community, based on a lot of research.  It's not a matter of someone having a bad day, or staying at home watching TV once in awhile.
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Themis
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« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2013, 01:41:39 AM »

The T.V. thing was meant to give people a laugh. I used quite a bit of silly examples to make my point with humour... .  

Obviously I'm not that funny! My BPD keeps telling me that. But I won't give up. :-)

The fatigue raised my eyebrows a bit though. It's the sign that the body truly is worn, stressed and sign of sickness. I'd take that one seriously.

She might be complaining as a way to get help.


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Matt
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« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2013, 01:55:39 AM »

The fatigue raised my eyebrows a bit though. It's the sign that the body truly is worn, stressed and sign of sickness. I'd take that one seriously.

She might be complaining as a way to get help.

Yeah, you're probably right.  We're divorced now, and the kids are with me most of the time, so I think her life is probably much less stressful.  She works very regular hours in a not-very-stressful job, and can come home - I imagine - and rest.

My point was, she exhibited a number of very unusual and consistent behaviors, not like what most of us do - not just grumpy once in a while, but literally saying nothing except complaints for hours at a time.  (Of course nobody would be around her much when she was like that.)  Most of us would recognize that we were feeling very bad, and we'd get control over our behavior - "I'm sorry but I'm really tired and in a bad mood.  I'm just going to go read for awhile and then go to sleep." - so we wouldn't abuse anyone else.  To regularly abuse other family members - usually verbal but once in a while physical - is a clear sign of a serious psychological problem, in my not-professional understanding.

We should keep our perspective, and recognize that nobody is all bad, and that nobody asks to have BPD.  My ex had a very bad childhood and it's easy to see how that probably led to BPD;  but at the same time, none of us here deserve to be abused, and those behaviors are really hurtful, so we are wise to gather here, to learn from each other, along with counseling for ourselves and other ways to move forward... .  
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Themis
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« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2013, 02:05:26 AM »

  Well said.
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ennie
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« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2013, 10:41:47 AM »

Even with lots of support - community and professional for gd and myself - I am moving to a place of having to adapt my interactions for my fatigue. Yoru story gives me hope that I will be able to find this path, and still be connected in appropriate ways with each person in my life.

qcr

Thanks so much for your support and YOUR story.  Though my role is much more disconnected from the BPD person in my life, I think actually our roles are most parallel in some ways.  The most challenging and painful aspects of my experience are dealing with my SDs and the ways they are mimicking and/or being harmed by their BPD mom, so it is indirect.  If I remember your story, you care for your granddaughter and have a BPD daughter?  Is that you?  So we both share the painful reality of dealing with the impacts on the little ones, but another parallel is dealing with my SDs when they are in a totally enmeshed place with her mom.  Each of them has chosen BPD behaviors of their mom's to emulate--SD12, who really is growing out of her most enmeshed phase (having asked recently to see a counselor who her mom does not know), chooses mom's irrational blame and "poor me" victimized fantasy... .  SD8 chooses her mom's "no one loves me, I might as well just die!  I will kill myself! Don't touch me!" line of operation, which is very intense coming from someone who is 8 years old, but does not feel as deeply committed as SD12 is to her lines... .  neither girl feels really troubled, just in pain.  SD8 seems mostly in pain because mom makes her choose between parents, and she really loves us all and so if she chooses mom, she feels horrible, but if she does not, she feels horribly guilty.  SD12 is in pain (though MUCH less lately) because while it does not bother her to choose mom when need be, she has also had to cut off parts of who she is to survive with her mom, and now she is at an age where she is needing those parts!  Where she is seeing she wants to be different, and is working on it. 

With both girls, the most painful aspect is seeing them harm themselves (emotionally) to make life work for their mom. 

At any rate, I also share the need for connectedness and not isolation.  I think I am different than some SMs in that I do not find that disengaging from the girls really helps at all or works as a strategy in our family or for my relationship with them (though detachment is helpful at times), and while I have the choice to leave my husband, I do not want to and in addition to being committed to him, I am also in a relationship with the girls where my loss would be very painful for them.  So I am here for the long haul, not because I am willing to be intimate with someone with BPD by choice, but because the BPD person and the fleas of my SDs that bring BPD into my home life are part of my chosen responsibility, part of a long term commitment I have.   For me, that means my goal is not so much to learn how to effectively communicate with a BPD person, but how to create a strong, good family and nurture my own soul and have enough energy not to fall apart during the inevitable drama and crisis.  All of the ideas and work the folks on this board do to help with that really helps me. 

As for this thread, I think the idea of the distinction between hope and faith is helpful.  Hope is what keeps you looking for new options, working harder, moving forward. Hope is tied to an outcome.  Faith is what allows us to rest in not knowing, in trusting that if we listen closely, the way will be clear, and the hard parts and even tragic outcomes are part of the gift.  Faith is more part of the approach taken by radical acceptance.  Dealing with BPD, I think hope is a less powerful guide than faith, but both are important.  For me, I had to adjust my hope to be focused on MY outcomes, rather than others'.  First to go was my hope that BPD mom of my SDs would be any better; then hope that the kids would be okay; then the hope that my DH would find a way of dealing with BPD mom that kept her away from our little cocoon.  And redirected toward hope that I could find a more peaceful place in me, hope that I could love all these people even if they did not meet my expectations, and hope that everything would be just right how it is.  Hope also that I could find a way to do basic things that are fun for me! 

And in that process, faith was very important. 

A final ingredient that is critical for me is curiosity.  Beyond what we wish for the person of BPD and those around him or her, are we curious?  I find that my curiosity with the kids and BPD mom is really helpful.  I wonder what SD12 WILL be like when she grows up?  What wounds will she bear from her mom, from me, from her dad?  And how will she address them?  Will she be happy?  What will she be LIKE?  Will we be friends, or will she get as far away from me as possible?  Will she love or hate her mom?  And what about SD8?  Will she be a highly dramatic teen?  Will she be okay?  Will she feel good about herself, and find a peaceful place?  How will her feeling that her mom does not completely love her manifest in her adult life?  Will she be able to lean on DH and I for support, or not?  What will her relationship with her mom be like?  And what about BPD mom?  Will she be a homeless person on the street, as the person who diagnosed her suggested?  Will she find a person who can love her and stay with her as is?  Will she die in some tragic way?  Will she seek help?  How will it be for her when she is older and no longer beautiful and seductive?  How will she support herself when her kids are grown?  Where will she live?  Will she find some peace and happiness?  How can a person live a whole life with so little joy?  Will she abandon hope when she does not have the purpose of raising children? 

What is next? 

When I ask the curiosity as questions, it is less powerful than just the feeling of interest in these remarkable people.  I feel this with my husband, too.  Who will he be next?  I am more curious about his basic nature and story and how it will unfold than I am about if we will be together, if he will help me get what I want.  It is sustaining, this curiosity.  I would like to ask the author of this thread if he is curious about his mate?  I think focusing on hope for another person can be oppressive, whereas curiosity is quite liberating.
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qcarolr
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« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2013, 03:48:14 PM »

Yep - that is me and my story. There are parallels with so many others stories that involve kids. I really appreciate the differences and inter-relatedness you shared between hope and faith and using curiosity to help us find our way in all the relationships. It does really work to nurture ourselves first and then we can be present for others. And it all happens willy-nilly, criss-crossed along the way.

qcr
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The best criticism of the bad is the practice of the better. (Dom Helder)
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