Silent treatment vs. abandonment

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So my BPDw decided that I was a jerk again. The situation itself isn't really the issue. She'll find a reason whenever I stumble over the hairtrigger. I have been through this so many times in the last ten years it is simply getting old and tiresome. It used to tear me up emotionaly, now I just am tired and am learning to set boundaries to protect my own sanity.

Anyway, she uses the silent treatment on me all the time after an episode. Early on she would hold out until I couldn't take it and capitulated and apologized (even though I usually had no clue what I was apologizing for). As time progressed I would hold out a bit longer and maybe after 4 -7 days of silent treatment I would star a little small talk and things would soothe over. I'm reaching the point now where I almost enjoy the peace and quiet of it and am debating on whether or not I should simply wait for as long as it takes for her to speak first. I'm wondering if anyone has actually had any success doing this when dealing with a BPD?

I am also curious about this: She admittedly has strong abandonment issues so why doesn't the silent treatment really affect her more than it seems to? Is it because she initiated it? or because I am still physically present maybe? When I am away on business for a week or so and get home she can actually be very pleasant and caring like she genuinely missed me. It just seems like the time apart should impact her a lot more.

Any input will be greatly appreciated. I just found this site. I'm not new to BPD, but in reading some of the posts so far, I realize I am not up to speed on some of the acronyms here so I may have to ask.

Thansk!

[Frost]

So my BPDw decided that I was a jerk again. The situation itself isn't really the issue. She'll find a reason whenever I stumble over the hairtrigger. I have been through this so many times in the last ten years it is simply getting old and tiresome. It used to tear me up emotionaly, now I just am tired and am learning to set boundaries to protect my own sanity.

Anyway, she uses the silent treatment on me all the time after an episode. Early on she would hold out until I couldn't take it and capitulated and apologized (even though I usually had no clue what I was apologizing for). As time progressed I would hold out a bit longer and maybe after 4 -7 days of silent treatment I would star a little small talk and things would soothe over. I'm reaching the point now where I almost enjoy the peace and quiet of it and am debating on whether or not I should simply wait for as long as it takes for her to speak first. I'm wondering if anyone has actually had any success doing this when dealing with a BPD?

I am also curious about this: She admittedly has strong abandonment issues so why doesn't the silent treatment really affect her more than it seems to? Is it because she initiated it? or because I am still physically present maybe? When I am away on business for a week or so and get home she can actually be very pleasant and caring like she genuinely missed me. It just seems like the time apart should impact her a lot more.

Any input will be greatly appreciated. I just found this site. I'm not new to BPD, but in reading some of the posts so far, I realize I am not up to speed on some of the acronyms here so I may have to ask.

Thansk!

[crushed-not-broken]

I'm also just leaning about BPD and I think the silent treatment is just a bid for control in some sort of a power struggle they feel they are engaged in. My H would just leave the home after raging and withdraw all communication, he would be gone for weeks at a time. His behavior was more like abandonment and not just the silent treatment as he would just leave when he was angry. He never just ignored me while he was living with me under the same roof but whenever we had conflict, either I would leave for a short time or he would leave for weeks and nothing was ever resolved. In our case, absense did not make the heart grow fonder; he became coldhearted during these times and his silent treatment and abandonment caused me to become emotionally detached from him over time.

From my point of view,  the silent treatment is emotional manipulation whether one suffers with BPD or not and it is a very destructive pattern to get into.

[Upbeat Girl]

Hi Frost,

I think the push/pull effect has to be considered here. They want you close but hey, not too close. I also feel that the silent treatment is a form of control/punishment and in most BPDs it overrides the fear of abandonment.It's often 'all about them'.Stay strong- you are not alone.

[shatra]

Hi


Yes it sounds like the push-pull behavior. It could also be that the BP is doing toyou what they felt was done to them in childhood: The parent randomly ignored them, didn't talk to them enough, or otherwise abandoned them. BP may be repeating childhood and doing toyou what they thought was done to them

Have a nice day

Shatra

[alwayslearning]

WOW Shatra! That makes sense. I've had the silent treatment so many times... its mean and cruel but I always felt it was some form of control. Usually if I leave it alone, he will initiate contact again. Sometimes it takes me a few days to let it go but when I do in my mind I'm saying "ok, you want to be silent? two can play this game" I think of it as fighting fire with fire...

but the abandonment issues from childhood... .monkey see, monkey do... maybe so.

[alwayslearning]

Frost, wouldn't want to tell you wrong, but I agree with waiting out the silent treatment. I've done in at times and if I don't wait it out and just keep a little contact, it seems like it makes it last longer. Yes, you would think they would be afraid to pull those stunts but they are not. I didn't return his messages one time for 3 days except a msg or 2 all along. He did what he had to do to get my attention, then when he got it, he have me hell for it. Hollered and screamed to the point I just got in my car and left... .made absolutely no sense.

[StrongEnough]

I just have to say it is so nice to hear people talk about the silent treatment.  It is the first sign that he's been upset and then follows conflicts for an unpredictable length of time.  I am triggered by it- first to try and comfort him... .later it feels like a power play because the silence is deafening and I feel hopeless and angry.  Better to leave the house, I think.

And he maintains there is no silent treatment, so its really nice to hear that term here.

[Upbeat Girl]

Oh yeah, I love it that my BPDH maintains there is no silent treatment too. When I finally have a breakthru, he tells me that he hasn't been angry (even tho tho it may look that way) but in fact he's extremely hurt. I maintain it's anger cos he can't seem to cry, be upset or express his 'hurt' in any other way than a stony silence that gives off these really angry vibes!His parents ignored him often (according to him) as a child and their love was quite erratic and inconsistent, very dependent on his behaviour.In fact, I know that his mother often gave him the silent treatment as a child and he had to play the 'guess what you did wrong game.'

[StrongEnough]

The "guess what you did wrong" game! I love it!

I mean, I love having a name for it!

[louiseann17]

This is EXACTLY what my ex says to me when he gets back in contact... .things like ' I havent been angry at all... .and every time i thought about you it would make me cry... .i have been so upest' etc... .but i know deep down this is not the case my gut tells me... .as when he starts the silent treatment he has the worst most abusive mouth this side of the western world

[heromyth]

Well, the BP I've been with broke up with me again on Valentine's day, though honestly his reasons were sound and I couldn't disagree.  The thing is, he felt sad very soon the next day and seemed to feel abandonment pain from his own decision.  I think he would go through this with silent treatment if I weren't always there at the end of his silent raging episode.

I think silent treatment and raging immediately brings about feelings of abandonment when the desired effect of your increased interest isn't achieved, I'm sure it's just a matter of how long the initial punishment phase lasts for them.

[louiseann17]

Actually... .i think you maybe right heromyth... .because the more i find out about this disorder i think this is what is happening... .the push/ pull thing... .and wow my ex uses this one with great gusto on me... .as usually i wont contact him at all after the verbal abuse over absolutely nothing... .maybe he is waiting for me to 'react'... .but i dont well in some cases not straight away anyway... .I kinda leave him to it even though its so upsetting and confusing for me... .but its just i feel like i cant get through to him... .and with him its always always about BLAME... .thankyou for the insight... .

[hiker_reader]

I think the silent treatment is sometimes control, sometimes they will wait to see if we apologize... .if we "want" them enough, and sometimes they will "abandon" us before we abandon them.  Not sure if it varies from one incident to another, goes in phases, or is a combination of things.  My personal experience is to just maintain the distance until they give in and talk.

[Frost]

Thanks all for your replies! It is relieving to know others experiences are so similar.

It seems the whole silent treatment thing is a power play in our relationship. I no longer cave in and start trying to make things right, instead I simply just wait it out. It seems to happen less often now than in years past. I'm thinking she is learning that it is not an effective weapon anymore.

I noticed a few of you mentioned that after it was done the BPD would deny ever being angry. That's kind of funny, because my BPDw now acts as though I was the one being silent. Possibly because I refuse to get sucked in to the power struggle and just wait her out.

[heromyth]

Absolutely, I think it's a double edged sword; when he isolates, it's to both punish me through deprivation, but also to punish himself with complete immersion into his psychological pain, where he can swim in his misery alone like he has his whole life.

Blame has definitely worked itself in there, but I hold my ground.  Like all black and white thinking that comes with the borderline mindset, it's either all his fault, or all mine, whether he voices that belief or not.

I'm no longer confused by it, but that doesn't help the fact I know it's meant to cause pain.  Destructive behaviour is abusive behaviour, no matter where it's directed.

Actually... .i think you maybe right heromyth... .because the more i find out about this disorder i think this is what is happening... .the push/ pull thing... .and wow my ex uses this one with great gusto on me... .as usually i wont contact him at all after the verbal abuse over absolutely nothing... .maybe he is waiting for me to 'react'... .but i dont well in some cases not straight away anyway... .I kinda leave him to it even though its so upsetting and confusing for me... .but its just i feel like i cant get through to him... .and with him its always always about BLAME... .thankyou for the insight... .

[Upbeat Girl]

A few of you guys have given the impression that you are separated form your BPD partner. Can I ask if that is indeed the case? I have not been living with my BPDH for more than 12 months though we are stilll in contact with each other. I'm just interested in how others are handling their relationships.

[alwayslearning]

Frost, that's encouraging to know that your waiting out the silent treatment has resulted in them happening less. You are probably right, if it doesn't have the desired effect then why do it? I've noticed that mine has changed his tatics through through time. I think with him though sometimes the silent treatment is used to punish me and sometimes he just simply in one of those moods where he just don't want any contact. Either way it sucks!

[Zippy_the_chimp]

I tried to figure out the silent treatment since the honeymoon.

I really hate it, so it was particularly effective weapon for her to use against me.

Remarkable how bp's can be so similar.

[Ace]

I have waited out the silent treatment for as long a few weeks.  What usually happens is my wife will find a reason to talk to me, ie dealing with the kids.  Then over time small talk will enter.  It is like it never happened.  I wouldn't act angry, but would keep the talk to things we needed to discuss, and eventually my wife would break down and talk to me.  I guess I look at it like this.  If they are giving you the silent treatment, in all likelihood they are dysregulated and probably in a really angry state.  Do you really want to poke the bear at that point?  What I find helps me is if I ask her something and she ignores me or is acting angry and says everything is fine, I will say "Well, if you want to talk, let me know."  That puts the ball in her corner.  Sometimes she will eventually talk that night or maybe the next day about what was bothering her and sometimes she will start talking that night or in a couple weeks like nothing happened.  Sometimes they get over it, and sometimes they need to talk it out.   

I too was once apologizing for things I had no idea of just to get things back to "normal".  Now, screw it, I will only apologize for things I agree with or use statements like "sorry you feel I _____"  which isn't an apology but does send a message that I care, but am not responsible for what she is accusing me of.  The boundaries have done wonders for my self confidence, and honestly I think my wife respects me more.  I was told by my therapist that I have to be the jersey barriers for my wife to keep her on the road.  The rock that she can look to and trust.  I have to be grounded and confident in my reality since her reality is so skewed.  By enforcing boundaries I am showing her how I want to be treated.  So far the boundaries have worked great, but it is slow going.  I feel I am having to reverse years of letting her walk all over me. 

[LW1968]

I will only apologize for things I agree with or use statements like "sorry you feel I _____"  which isn't an apology but does send a message that I care,

Ouch.

I don't think that really says you care.  What I hear in that statment is, "Your feelings are inappropriate and it's too bad you don't know how to take things."

I would suggest that if you really don't feel sorry, don't say you're sorry.  The toughest thing for me, when learning validation, was to STOP saying "I'm sorry" at the beginning of every sentence.

[Ace]

Sorry you feel my statement says I don't care.

  Well you might be right.  I guess I just got sick and tired of having her reality shoved down my throat.  Her reality being that I was the root problem to all that was wrong in her life. 

It is the best I can do right now.  When I am accused of something or put down, I truly am sorry she feels that way about me.  It isn't validating I know, but it beats taking it on the chin like I was doing before.  I have been attempting to validate but only when I am not feeling attacked, since then I am in a better place to validate.

 

[LW1968]

If you're being accused of something or put down, do NOT validate.

That's not the stuff we validate--that's the stuff that makes us walk away from them for awhile.  The goal is to teach her that it's unacceptable to talk to you this way by refusing to listen.

Yes, it does get old listening to things like that.  And you don't need to be sorry that she feels that way, and certainly not sorry for getting the heck outta Dodge if she starts it.

[crushed-not-broken]

My husband left when I refused to listen, so if you are trying to restore the relationship this may not be the response to take.  I did not validate my husband, but I wanted to. I just couldn't validate the accusations he made nor was I even able to validate his feelings---it was foreign to me, very disorienting to be accused of having bad motives.  I'm sure that Ace is very sorry his wife feels about him the way she does. There are just times when... .what CAN you say?

Best wishes, Ace.  I truly hope tou find an effective method to deflect the false accusations... .it's hard to live with.

[Ace]

I appreciate it.  You are absolutely right. What can you say.  I truly am sorry my wife feels the way she does.  I am not lying.  I want to appear I am listening, and my wife is not really "attacking" me in a direct fashion, so I can't really walk off, but the accusations are crazy and although I am calm on the outside, on the inside I am screaming "YOU ARE NUTS!".  The irony is my confidence standing up for myself, seems to be working.  For now.    My therapist wants me to validate, but knows it is extremely hard.  Her mom is BPD and even she can only take her mom in small doses.  She is professionally trained.  Doesn't exactly instill a lot of confidence in me being able to pull it off.     

I was a complete pushover before.  Now I live almost independently from her.  How she feels I try and am usually successful at not letting affect how I feel.  I was completely enmeshed and codependent before.  I am probably still a little codependent, but far from where I was.  I haven't been very good at validating, BUT, I have been very confident when I talk to her.  Confidence I am finding is huge.  It isn't so much what we say, but how we say it.  We need to be able to convey to them that we actually mean what we say without any signs of apprehension or fear.  For me this started when I came to the resolution that I was willing to lose my wife to gain myself back.  Closeness in the relationship is fairly low, but it has become the new norm, and I am noticing that slowly she is starting to get used to me and sees me as the calm rock in the relationship.  I cannot help but feel with time she will start trusting me more.  This hasn't stopped the "episodes" but she knows what to expect from me in terms of my reaction to them and as such they have slowed down in intensity and frequency.  I find the tricks I have learned are serving me well with our oldest son who is as emotionally charged as my wife.  His excuse is he is 8 years old.    I know if I validated my wife we could grow a lot faster, but I just can't seem to do that right now.  The verbal onslaughts for the most part have all but ceased.  They have been replaced with snide comments, caustic sarcasm, and accusations.  Almost incidious how unpronounced the attaks on me are now.  Before they were undeniable, now they are hidden in her words.  I did walk off when she was verbally abusive, and it worked.  So well in fact that she pretty much stopped with the name calling.  She has just gone underground with her attacks now.  Guerilla warfare almost.    It is a whole lot better than it was, but not where I want it to be.     

[crushed-not-broken]

It sounds to me that you are taking a proactive stance and finding ways to make things more liveable in your home life, Ace. This is very good.  I really have to agree about the "tone" of the words we say; I felt my XH w/BPD traits was like a bloodhound, just sniffing for signs of rejection in the things I said.   And, he did find enough to compile complaints against me, kitchen-sinking me over things I said because I had no idea of how my "tone" came across.  We were together less than 3 years, when he first started to become emotionally dysregulated after the honeymoon phase, I started to bridle my tongue over many things, watching my words, thinking I was wise to "pick my battles". If I became offended, I would really weigh in my heart if bringing these offenses up was worth the trouble to find solutions for.  Now, learning about personality disorders, I realize there was no way to come to resolution from him for the chaos he was creating in our marriage.  It just seemed like a fire was burning and by the time I got a clue, the fire became out of control, the earth was scorched beyond redemption.  This r/s with my husband was not in my control; it had a life of its own and the destination was certain destruction.

I often think that if I had a "redo" on the r/s, now having some understanding of BPD as you have Ace, I would do like you are doing---find ways to keep the fire from burning out of control and for this you need the calm, solid confidence you are gaining. Kudos to you for remaining in and working it out.  Maybe one day, the payoff for you will be huge... .just keep loving her and keep loving yourself enough not to internalize the rage (the fire) and keep those fire lines (boundries) refreshed.   Keep posting here, it's an outlet to find comfort. Many blessings to you and continue to walk in strength.

[Ace]

I know what you mean about redo's, but things happen for a reason.  There is a silver lining to my wife leaving me if she decides to, which I don't think she would ever follow through on, but if she does I wouldn't have to deal with this disorder as much.    That keeps me going beleive it or not, seeing that the "worst" possible outcome, really isn't as bad as I may have originally thought.  That allows me to stand up for myself and my boundaries with confidence, otherwise I might cave in.  I think many of us on this board are codependents.  I think only a codependent would put up with the behavior we put up with for as long as we do.    We want to help and make others happy at our own expense.  The problem is no matter what we do, we cannot make the bottomless pit of emptiness, that is our partner, full.  Learning to make ourselves happy may seem selfish at first, it certainly did and still does for me, but it is best for not only us, but even the ones we care about.  Putting myself first was the first step in my ongoing recovery.  I think some BPD's can handle this transition, and others cannot.  My wife is a very high functioning BPD.  She is struggling with my independence, but realizes it is healthy.  She on some level knows that her behavior is unacceptable, but can't admit it.  Not all those with BPD are created equal.  I hope you find peace with your loss and look forward to reading more of your posts.     

[crushed-not-broken]

Ace, it can only be in the context of a relationship with a pwBPD where one comes up with a life strategy of envisioning the "worst" outcome is a best practice to survival.   I can imagine going into a situation with a mindset of expecting the worst, then anything NOT worse becomes acceptable! Of anyone on the "undecided" board whom I've read, you seem to be the one with best attitude.  Keep your confidence and keep up the good work!  We are all rooting for you--you've defeated the no-win BPD game, you've got nothing to "lose".

[educatedguy]

It really is eerie just how on the dot similar the pwBPD in our lives are.  This silent treatment thread really hits home for me and reading some of your responses take me back, as I have tried all of the different means to avoid this type of rage.

Someone said that the silent treatment is all about BLAME and boy can I relate to that.  Any conflict with my stbxBPDw always had to result in the assignment of BLAME, typically on me because, well I was the root of all her problems, hurt, failures, etc.  If I disagreed or refused to listen to her blame me, throw false accusations, make up events, or just plain rage with the name calling then the silent treatment ensued.  Then, if I didn't apologize for her raging at me and treating me abusively, well the cycle would just continue.

I eventually stopped apologizing for things I am not responsible for.  I read a post a while ago, can't remember who it was, but the writer stated she would say in her head "Not Mine" when confronted with behavior etc. that she couldn't fix or was not responsible for.  That is what I started doing, telling myself NOT MINE, the instant she would start trying to assign blame.  This allowed me to disengage and avoid being abused.  The result however, was a BPDw that escalated her behavior to a point which I could no longer stand it. 

Its just as the literature suggests, that the pwBPD will behave in ways that ultimately result in what the fear the most... .abandonment.

[crushed-not-broken]

"Its just as the literature suggests, that the pwBPD will behave in ways that ultimately result in what the fear the most... .abandonment." Quote.

The pwBPD perpetrates his/her worst fears on you... .the fear of abandonment is played out so that you are the one who experiences the loss, instead of them.  The BPD mind trick is to sabatoge the relationship and walk away justified that they dodged the bullet that you would just end up leaving/rejecting them and by abandoning YOU first, saving them the hurt.  What a way to live.

From what I am understanding, after a few of these tragic relational episodes in the life of an aging BPD, they begin to isolate themselves and become hermit-like.  Rather than learning from life, they seem to fold into their shells and find a modicum of relief, not having to deal with the pressure and threat of intimacy, they are more 'themselves'.  This has been my experience w my EXH w/BPD traits.  He is more comfortable alone than with someone, he remains unaccountable.

As far as the "silent treatment versus abandonment" debate, the cutoff point is when they leave, it is abandonment.  If they stay, it is a bid for control and a time of silent raging for them with the added bonus of punishing YOU.  I'm not sure which scenario is worse,

Are you still living with your wife, educatedguy?

[Zippy_the_chimp]

Again, I think all of these BPD's are reading from the same playbook. 

C-N-Broken cracked me up, because my wife says the same thing about my "tone" or my "attitude". 

Then, even if whatever I said was innocuous, my "attitude" alone can be deserving of unleashing the hounds of hell.

Pretty good catch-all, huh?