are alpha males better suited for women w/ BPD?

[Matthew_Taylor801]

i often wonder if i were more aggressive with my exBPD how things would have played out.  I wouldnt consider myself 100% alpha but I am assertive when I need to be and when she pissed me off I let her have it.  i never let her walk all over me as she said she did with previous boyfriends.  one night we got into a horrible fight over, yes you guessed it, something extremely stupid. i made a smart ass comment to someone and it totally set her off. we left a party and came back to my place and didnt talk for 30 min.  she then picked up and left and i didnt try to stop her but she then called me from her car to apologize.  i still wonder what wouldve happened if i just grabbed her and initiated sex.  i was really annoyed and honestly just wanted her to leave but i still beat myself up over not being more aggressive.

[AlexDP]

No one is better for a BPD.

[nwpbroke]

No one is better for a BPD.

True story, im an alpha male, but i let her walk all over me, when she disappeared for a night i would feel bad.   The more i read the more i think i met the queen of all BPDs

[GlennT]

You can go to So Suave.com and even the alpha's there tell each other to stay away from them!

[AlexDP]

Only one type of person can handle a borderline for eternity. And that's a sociopath. Alpha males are usually highly narcissistic. So am I. This means that you start out in control or seemingly in control. But the borderline will get to you. She will play her game.

[2010]

i still wonder what wouldve happened if i just grabbed her and initiated sex.  i was really annoyed and honestly just wanted her to leave but i still beat myself up over not being more aggressive.

Are you saying that you should have made a better attempt at delivering sadism to control her?

Borderline personality disorder is a persecution complex. Their ultimate goal is not love. Their ultimate goal is the *longing* for love. Their disorder is a process of seductive, clinging and hating behaviors that run on a continual loop. Borderline women often choose Men that seek to “subsume” them into objectified extensions of themselves; i.e. Narcissists.

The suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner is not love, it is disordered thought. Borderline personality is a disorder that appears like love- but is actually loathsome fear for the BPD concerning attachment and control. The loathsome fear for the Narcissist is that he cannot control his objectified partner without losing his grandiosity.

Some people choose to deny their own pain- they deplore their own weakness, yet they seek it out in others.  Some people choose to feel power with the “help” of another human being in much the same way they might take a drink to take the edge off. And since another human being is needed for both of these disorders to work their magic- a great deal of time is spent looking for and appraising potential sexual partners (objects) according to how well they can fuel the fetish and facilitate the disorder.

If you are not a sadist and have no desire to be one, you'll heal from this. If, on the other hand, dominating a female appeals to you, you will be very attractive to submissive females that will fight you for their perceived survival, and failing that may do themselves harm to get even and scapegoat you. i.e; Borderlines.

Two halves BPD/NPD do make a whole lot of dysfunction and drama, as one fights the other for control and the sadism and masochism interchanges back and forth. Narcissists are not better suited for Borderlines, (no one is) but they do fit together like a perfect match for igniting each others fears.

[TheSomberlain]

You can go to So Suave.com and even the alpha's there tell each other to stay away from them!

Yes. They do. 

There's a significant BPD thread there.

[T2H]

You can't beat someone at a game where they keep changing the rules in their favor.

Alpha is no match for mental illness.

No one is - everyone loses.

[Evan]

You can't beat someone at a game where they keep changing the rules in their favor.

Alpha is no match for mental illness.

No one is - everyone loses.

Everyone loses, exactly.

But then we can process and recover using time and space. They only can recover if they choose to, otherwise they'll continue on their matyrs path.

[once removed]

matt,

everyone is exactly right.

i think boundaries, assertiveness, and a certain amount of pulling when they're pushing, or pulling when they're pulling can make a difference in the length and dynamics of the relationship. nothing changes the outcome.

[vhammer1]

Ha! Don't kid yourself for a second!

Having alpha traits makes it worse with these women. When I met her I was training for MMA and joined the Army's DEP program under a Special Forces contract.

I am conventionally handsome, I am muscular, I have expensive and extremely artistic and aesthetically pleasing tattoos. I can play numerous musical instruments very well. I am good with guns, and climbing equipment. I went through a fire academy and can lead grown ass men around!

I am a collection of every classical masculine and alpha male trait possible, including being very comfortable talking with women... .attractive women! And I assure you, I was completely powerless around her.

BPD is about them, there is nothing you can do to be more attractive or alpha to win them back.

As an alpha I don't know how to "give up," my personality is based on winning. Not being able to give up on someone who said they love you and will be with you forever... .no matter what. And then stops loving you and goes to great lengths not to be with you... .no matter what. Man, it does something really strange to your psyche and sense of self. Being with her caused me to question my very sense of reality and self concept.

Matthew, I'm as aggressive as they come and it didn't matter one bit. There is nothing you can do man, other than cause yourself more pain waiting for her to come back. I have physically picked her up on numerous occasions and thrown her into her bed. None of it mattered, she is gone.

[tornadochaser]

Ha! Don't kid yourself for a second!

Having alpha traits makes it worse with these women. When I met her I was training for MMA and joined the Army's DEP program under a Special Forces contract.

I am conventionally handsome, I am muscular, I have expensive and extremely artistic and aesthetically pleasing tattoos. I can play numerous musical instruments very well. I am good with guns, and climbing equipment. I went through a fire academy and can lead grown ass men around!

I am a collection of every classical masculine and alpha male trait possible, including being very comfortable talking with women... .attractive women! And I assure you, I was completely powerless around her.

BPD is about them, there is nothing you can do to be more attractive or alpha to win them back.

As an alpha I don't know how to "give up," my personality is based on winning. Not being able to give up on someone who said they love you and will be with you forever... .no matter what. And then stops loving you and goes to great lengths not to be with you... .no matter what. Man, it does something really strange to your psyche and sense of self. Being with her caused me to question my very sense of reality and self concept.

Matthew, I'm as aggressive as they come and it didn't matter one bit. There is nothing you can do man, other than cause yourself more pain waiting for her to come back. I have physically picked her up on numerous occasions and thrown her into her bed. None of it mattered, she is gone.

Vhammer - Right on!

The more Alpha I made myself it didn't help.      Guns, Diesel Performance Racing, building engines, modeling, riding bikes, drinking bourbon, breaking and building things... .none of it helped.   I also did all the beta things; cooking, grocery shopping, coaching the kids teams, Bible studies, mens groups,  etc etc and held down a white collar job earning in the top 5%.

Ultimately, it's just a significant mental illness and me and what I did was irrelevant.

[Inspirationneeded]

You can go to So Suave.com and even the alpha's there tell each other to stay away from them!

True story, that site led me to becoming educated on BPD.

You can go to So Suave.com and even the alpha's there tell each other to stay away from them!

Yes. They do.  

There's a significant BPD thread there.

Yep in that thread.  It was a scary and eye-opening experience.  The only males that are suited for women with BPD are men that are extremely narcissitic.  Even then it doesn't last, it just lasts longer than the average guy.  They are too caught up in themselves and as soon as they feel she is pulling them down they bail and blame it on her.  After all they are perfect.  This of course plays into the hands of BPD as always not being good enough.  So they'll go back.  It takes a significant event to break this bond that would have to attack the core being of each disorder.  Either she does something to embarrass him publicly and shatter his self made image.  Or he does something to make her feel responsible for her actions.

[2010]

The only males that are suited for women with BPD are men that are extremely narcissitic.  Even then it doesn't last, it just lasts longer than the average guy.  They are too caught up in themselves and as soon as they feel she is pulling them down they bail and blame it on her.  After all they are perfect.  This of course plays into the hands of BPD as always not being good enough.  So they'll go back.  It takes a significant event to break this bond that would have to attack the core being of each disorder.  Either she does something to embarrass him publicly and shatter his self made image.  Or he does something to make her feel responsible for her actions.

 

It's also important to differentiate between "alpha" which is a term used for pack animals and "narcissism," which is extreme self centeredness. Narcissists are by their very nature, lone wolves that employ emotional preventative measures to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. This creates an idea of self centered reference that begins with the self and broadcasts outwardly, rather than collectively commiserating with the group (or pack) good.

It's not just Men who do this of course, self centeredness can also be found in the woman who cares more about the Man's career than he does- for obvious objectified reasons. Narcissists do project their perfect self onto others and objectify them as extensions of themselves, and Borderlines will mirror that objectification back in order to attach.  The Narcissist feels uncomfortable with the attachment because it defuses his carefully cultivated and honed outward appearance, especially if the Borderline does not behave in the ways that the Narcissist demands as an extension of himself.

Meanwhile, the Borderline cannot effectively mirror the Narcissist and the Narcissist cannot effectively project all his good onto the Borderline for more than 4 months without some arguments arising. When the mirror that facilitates both disorders cracks, the Borderline bails out and the Narcissist suffers a narcissistic injury to their core, which is the fear that they are not as perfect as they claim to be, which is related to ego and causes immense anxiety.

[AlexDP]

The only males that are suited for women with BPD are men that are extremely narcissitic.  Even then it doesn't last, it just lasts longer than the average guy.  They are too caught up in themselves and as soon as they feel she is pulling them down they bail and blame it on her.  After all they are perfect.  This of course plays into the hands of BPD as always not being good enough.  So they'll go back.  It takes a significant event to break this bond that would have to attack the core being of each disorder.  Either she does something to embarrass him publicly and shatter his self made image.  Or he does something to make her feel responsible for her actions.

 

It's also important to differentiate between "alpha" which is a term used for pack animals and "narcissism," which is extreme self centeredness. Narcissists are by their very nature, lone wolves that employ emotional preventative measures to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack. This creates an idea of self centered reference that begins with the self and broadcasts outwardly, rather than collectively commiserating with the group (or pack) good.

It's not just Men who do this of course, self centeredness can also be found in the woman who cares more about the Man's career than he does- for obvious objectified reasons. Narcissists do project their perfect self onto others and objectify them as extensions of themselves, and Borderlines will mirror that objectification back in order to attach.  The Narcissist feels uncomfortable with the attachment because it defuses his carefully cultivated and honed outward appearance, especially if the Borderline does not behave in the ways that the Narcissist demands as an extension of himself.

Meanwhile, the Borderline cannot effectively mirror the Narcissist and the Narcissist cannot effectively project all his good onto the Borderline for more than 4 months without some arguments arising. When the mirror that facilitates both disorders cracks, the Borderline bails out and the Narcissist suffers a narcissistic injury to their core, which is the fear that they are not as perfect as they claim to be, which is related to ego and causes immense anxiety.

This part is scaring me. As awful as it may sound, over the past few months/weeks I have started to realise I have a lot of narcissistic traits. The arguments and the fights with my borderline ex started to arise after four months to the day. She bailed out on me and what you describe as a narcissistic injury is pretty much what happened to me. Perhaps it sounds odd, but our relationship was never about her. She was just 'the girl who was with me'. Also, I've been described as a lone wolf by others many many times and I was afraid to show my ex to my parents, but did show her off in bars where I knew people would be jealous because she was with me.

I still don't know if I'm truly a narcissist though, because I feel I do have empathy. I wish I could make her be happy about herself. Then again, perhaps I just want her to recognise me as important.

[Bluepanda]

Co-dependant behaviour seems to go very well with BPD and that's pretty much the opposite of what an Alpha male is so i can't see them being better suited, It's probably alot more like electricity and water mixing an Alpha male with a BPD female

[Inspirationneeded]

I think we all need to be careful with labeling.  A mentally healthy person at one time or another has characteristics of ALL of these disorders.  It's not a problem until that trait, or mindset controls all of your reactions in life.  

There is nothing wrong with moments of co-dependency until you give until the detriment of yourself.  There is nothing wrong with being selfish or narcissistic as long as you don't tear others down to achieve your goals.  It's not wrong to exhibit borderline tendencies as long as it motivates finding direction in life.  

[OTH]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=98299.0;wap2

This has been discussed before. Yes... .NPD/BPD couples fuel each other's sickness. It is something to be aware of. Please note also... .NPD is different from showing narcissism... .Healthy narcissism is fine.  

[PotentiallyKevin]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=98299.0;wap2

This has been discussed before. Yes... .NPD/BPD couples fuel each other's sickness. It is something to be aware of. Please note also... .NPD is different from showing narcissism... .Healthy narcissism is fine.  

... .and even unhealthy narcissism in the typical non is still light-years away from full-blown NPD. . .