... and then she takes an overdose

[YellowHat]

This week I thought we were making massive progress when the psychiatrist admints (finally!) that DD15 'probably has a personality disorder'.

What a relief I thought, now we can get down to some constructive therapy, DD15 seems relieved too. Then she phones me this afternoon to says she's taken 7-8 paracetamol and did I think she'd be OK. i said I didn't know the answer to that and said we must get some help to amke sure she was OK, she didn't want to make afuss, she said she felt pathetic.

She lives with her father away from me, so I told her to go home and I would ring her Dad, couldn't get hold of him so I dialled 999 and they said they would send an ambulance.

I spoke to her again and she was upset that I called an ambulance, she didn't want to make a fuss.

Any way now I'm just waiting to hear what's happened  :'(

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[griz]

I will say a prayer that all is okay.   

Griz

[dauada]

Thinking of you as you wait for news.  So glad your dear daughter phoned you.      

[lbjnltx]

Thinking about you and praying that she will come out of this ok.

You did the absolute right thing!  Please don't doubt that!

 

lbj

[DreamGirl]

I also think you did the right thing. How do you feel about it?

Did she say why she took 7 or 8?

What dosage is that exactly?

I think it's important to look at the big picture - a quick google search tells me that an overdose can cause liver damage and even death if the overdose isn't treated.

I do hope she's OK.

[momontherun]

I am glad you got a dx - sorry to hear about the overdose... .you did the right thing !

Paracetamol (aka acetaminophen) may seem harmless however, it truly is very dangerous in large doses leading to liver failure generally 12 - 24 hours after the intake. Research suggests doses up to 4000 mg a day is safe however, this has been done on adults taking it for painful arthritis not on young growing teens.

Thinking of you - sending prayers your way  

[Esperança_Hope]

You did the right thing. You and her both in my prayers. Getting a dx is a great progress.

Thinking of you  

Keep posting

Esperança

[YellowHat]

Thank you all, it's a comfort just to write down this stuff, like I'm not going through it alone, because truely know one I know really knows what this is like and what I go through every day.

Well the ambulance and the police turned up and she refused to go with them. She took 3500-4000mg, although she is quite petite. They rang the doctor who said she would be OK and made her an appointment for tomorrow. Then the doc phoned back and said she changed her mind and she should go to hospital. At which point DD lost in completely, put her fist through her bedroom wall and ran off banging her head on the house wall as she left.

Later she then rang her dad and asked that she took him to hospital, However when they got there she had another 'moment' when they kept her waiting for ages saying she couldn't eat anything, and they've now gone home without any treatment.

I have spoken to her. She told me how ashamed she feels for creating such a fuss. Instead of saying 'don't be stupid you've nothing to be ashamed of' I remembered to validate. I said 'I'm not going to say don't feel ashamed because I know that's how you're feeling right now. But I don't think you have anything to be ashamed about'. And she sighed and seemed calmer, a small success.

Anyhow the upshot of this is that she is refusing any treatment at the moment, although she probably hasn't taken enough to do any long term damage.

I will call her again later. Should I ask her why she did it? or is that just a stupid question. I struggle to know what to say sometimes

[momontherun]

Thank you all, it's a comfort just to write down this stuff, like I'm not going through it alone, because truely know one I know really knows what this is like and what I go through every day.

I agree, it is relieving to let it out and have understanding     We are all in the same sea just in different boats riding the  waves   

I have spoken to her. She told me how ashamed she feels for creating such a fuss. Instead of saying 'don't be stupid you've nothing to be ashamed of' I remembered to validate. I said 'I'm not going to say don't feel ashamed because I know that's how you're feeling right now. But I don't think you have anything to be ashamed about'. And she sighed and seemed calmer, a small success.

Anyhow the upshot of this is that she is refusing any treatment at the moment, although she probably hasn't taken enough to do any long term damage.

I will call her again later. Should I ask her why she did it? or is that just a stupid question. I struggle to know what to say sometimes

Now I am just guessing but perhaps she may be a bit embarrassed as well? You did great validating - maybe a little too much personalization? but hey it worked ! Just remember like waves her emotions are continually changing.

I wouldn't come right out and ask as she may not know how to describe it... .When you call again to check up on her, I would ask what is she doing to nurture herself? from there you could suggest a couple of things for her to do that she enjoys - if she isn't doing anything positive - if she is, you could continue to show your support and point out how good it must feel when she does special things for herself - if she doesn't take the lead from here then you could let her know one or two things you do for yourself when your stressed (my dd14 laughs at some of my coping skills like "extreme" deep cleaning and we both laugh)... .either way it opens up the door for her to open up to you - you could then reassure her your love for her. If she opens up and talks about it listen to what she has to say - help her if she tries to label her feelings ... .you could then let her know how scared you were, that your glad she contacted you, worried she may die and ask what could she have done differently? - if she doesn't open up that's ok because you've shown her your there for her and your love is unconditional that your her life boat in the sea... .Like a lifeboat, all you can do is be there - you can't save her but you can most certainly help when those waves are turbulent as well as, calm 

[vivekananda]

She told me how ashamed she feels for creating such a fuss. Instead of saying 'don't be stupid you've nothing to be ashamed of' I remembered to validate. I said 'I'm not going to say don't feel ashamed because I know that's how you're feeling right now. But I don't think you have anything to be ashamed about'. And she sighed and seemed calmer, a small success.

Wonderful validation, well done.

I will call her again later. Should I ask her why she did it? or is that just a stupid question. I struggle to know what to say sometimes

If it were my daughter, I don't know that I would. She would interpret that as judgemental and perhaps controlling. But that is my dd32 - she doesn't talk to me... .yet ... .

This is how I see it for me: I need to build my relationship with my daughter, so I validate. If I wanted to take it a bit further, I would communicate how I feel. Eg, "You would have been feeling a lot of pain to take that many painkillers. Is that how it was? When you called me, I felt unsure what I should do. What I did caused you to feel upset, I feel sorry. I want to do what is right for you."

When I was 20, I took a bottle of panadene pain killers. Then I thought 'what a stupid thing to do over a boy', and I made myself throw up. I felt better, settled down and went to bed for the night - no problems.

Because the liver can regenerate itself, it would probably be continued and heavy long term use that would do the damage to the liver. An overdose can kill - but I would expect it needs a lot of tablets. In hospital they would do up stomach pump no? Much nicer to just throw up, if its only a few ... .you can see how many come up even   

Your poor dd, by validating her, you give her the language she needs to understand herself. It is a way of teaching her to 'logically' understand her emotions. In this way you are helping her to build the neural pathways between her amydala and pre frontal cortex. You are teaching her mindfulness. 

And yes, momontherun has good advice about nurturing, I reckon.

Cheers,

Vivek    

 

[YellowHat]

Thank you.

Well I made a mess of the next conversation when I asked her did she really want to die. She got extremely annoyed with me shouting and swearing. I realise now that my asking that I was insinuating that she was just making a drama, I'm not sure. Anyway I apologised and said I understood now and wouldn't ask again. She did calm down in the end.

We have an appointment with the equine therapy people on December 14th and we have been offered family therapy too. Things are better now than in the summer when the police were round nearly everyday and she was out of her head on dope most of the time. Now we just have intermitent dramas. She lives with her Dad not me, he copes better than I do.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

You may feel a bit sorry that you asked that question, but saying sorry immediately was just the right thing to do. It showed you were listening to her and that she calmed down confirms that she felt easier. So, you showed your vulnerablility to her, no harm in that.

Equine therapy I have heard, does a lot of good - that's not far off. And family therapy too is great  .

When I came to grips with the BPD in my own life (dd32), I realised that I couldn't change anyone, all I could do was to change myself. Since then I have worked hard on doing just that, through learning the skills of validation and values based boundary setting. It is working for me, I recommend it to you. This board here has been my primary learning tool.

It seems there is a lot of hope ahead now, a good way to start another year.

Vivek  

[YellowHat]

Life is a bit weird isn't it, I was thinking a lot about this forum today and how much it helped me during some really bad times, so I log on and see it's nearly a year to the day I last posted!

What a long year we've had. In 2012 DD received a conviction for assaulting a teacher, rather than a 'punishment' she was given a referral order, which meant a 6 month stint on a youth offending program and 12 hours community service. Her youth workers were just brilliant, and her life started to change, we also found a DBT psychologist about an hours drive away and she's been seeing her all year.

The biggest difference in her I see is that she has hope, and is planning for the future. Having left school (not that she went much any way) with zero qualification, she is now at college 9 hours a week, and finds the adult environment much better than school. She's doing maths, english, biologyand mental health, she want's to go on to work in mental health with children.

It's still not easy in the last month we've had head banging and opening the car door threatening to jump out on the motorway, we've missed dbt sessions because she hasn't come home at night or the next day and we don't know where she is, she drinks, but rarely smokes weed now, and the cutting has stopped.  She's able to handle her emotions better and has recently got a part time job at macdonalds which I think will be good for her.

She still flies into anger rages, which leaves me raw and exhausted, but I will keep going, she WILL get thought this, I feel there is light at the end of the tunnel. We have good days and we have bad, but there are less bad now.

At the beginning of this year I had some therapy myself, it was one of the best things I've done, and gave me just a bit more strength, if there's one thing I've learned I have to look after my self, I have to be strong for her.

I've bought every book on DBT I can find and the knowledge helps lot. Sometimes I think is it BPD, or is it just extreme adolescent behavior, but then I look at the list and she still ticks every box for BPD.

Boundaries, setting my own was always difficult for me, but I have done this and have made small progress. Saying no and not tolerating behavior is hard but necessary.

It's been a long hard road, and I guess there's still a long way to go, but we have to keep going, small steps in the right direction. Forgiveness and radical acceptance have become my friends, she needs me to be her rock and that's what I will be.

[Tesse]

Dear yellowhat

My thoughts are with you. Indeed good she contacted you. A very sad situation. I had something similar 2 weeks ago with our D16. All seemed 'well'. Then one evening she felt down. I came to her room every 15 min. Yet I missed it... .She took 14 tables of 500 mg paracetamol. I contacted the emergency psychiatrist and he, whilst I remained on the phone, contacted the toxicology centre (open 24/24). They said i had to be sure it were 'only' 14 because then she would probably still be fine.

I went nevertheless to the hospital nearby, but they said they could not do anything; she would have had to be transferred to another hospital. The stomach had absorded it all anyway. i needed to keep a close eye on her re her liver. She suffered a lot that night. She said to me, 'mama' I thought that paracetramol was supposed to relieve pain, yet this is so painful'... .I was sad. this impulsie to relieve her suffereing almost killed her. Whilst we are still sorting out treatment I am on high alert. It will probably happen again. Yet, what if next time is more than 'just' 14... .

The only thing you and I can do is trying to get the right treatment and remain alert for signs. I wish you all the strength of the world. You deserve this. It is a traumatic experience for a parent. Keep faith that perhaps one day there will be improvement.