New and undecided

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Hi All,

I've just moved over from the new members board.

I'm still undecided what to do, my SO is in therapy and is showing great progress, but I still have the thoughts of the past pain and anguish, and if we move in together again I'm afraid of a relapse.

To see my history, I posted under "New to the forum !"

Looks as  though I may stay undecided for a while yet.

After 6 weeks of N/C, she asked me around for coffee and we talked for 4 hours, and was all positive, something we had never done before. 

I think reading the articles on this web site has improved my communication skills with my SO wBPD. but I have more to learn.

What a great help you all have been.

MontyD

[MontyD]

Hi All,

I've just moved over from the new members board.

I'm still undecided what to do, my SO is in therapy and is showing great progress, but I still have the thoughts of the past pain and anguish, and if we move in together again I'm afraid of a relapse.

To see my history, I posted under "New to the forum !"

Looks as  though I may stay undecided for a while yet.

After 6 weeks of N/C, she asked me around for coffee and we talked for 4 hours, and was all positive, something we had never done before. 

I think reading the articles on this web site has improved my communication skills with my SO wBPD. but I have more to learn.

What a great help you all have been.

MontyD

[Surnia]

Hi MontyD

it is okay to be undecided. And I agree with your feelings: Moving in to soon could be a trigger! So take your time.

 great that you spend some time with reading through the lessons. And even greater that you can say that your communication skills have improved!

What skills are working for you?

Surnia

[MontyD]

Sorry, been away for a long weekend.

I guess my communication skills have improved in that I'm starting to be able see the world as a pwBPD does. eg once I was always accused of "wanting to change me". My approach now is, "let's see if we can remove the road block that is preventing us from having a stable relationship", "I want you as you are with out the road block".

So it makes a difference, we had a great day together Sunday. We still live separately, but this may change soon. She wants to put the relationship back together, and I believe the therapy is doing a lot of good.

MontyD

[Surnia]

I guess my communication skills have improved in that I'm starting to be able see the world as a pwBPD does.

Great, MontyD. I am very happy for you that you spend a great day together. And it is so great that she can follow her therapy!

Surnia

[MontyD]

Today, the rose coloured glasses are off.  One thing came back to me was what my therapist had said, that she may try to set up a relationship which could be described as " a friend with benefits ", i.e., we live apart, she calls me when needed and I toe the line. I provide all the goodies and she makes no real commitment, just some promises that are never realised.

I think now is the time when I lay it out to what I precisely want in our relationship. I have told her before when we lived together. But now I think I should point out that all the nice things I can provide, will only be there if we have a proper mature relationship, rather than this half baked thing she seems to be trying to manipulate me into.

She may be serious about our future, but on Sunday, she had said a few things that I thought were conflicting.

I was her idea to go out for the day on the boat Sunday, and suggested that we can still go camping and still play golf together, and maybe we can go back to living together in 3 months time when the lease on her unit runs out.

And maybe she'll have another reason to stay parted in 3 months time.

See why I'm on the undecided board ?

MontyD

[thisyoungdad]

I am new to this site, this board and frankly this entire situation of having a spouse who seems to  be displaying all the signs of BPD however I can say for myself that if she were in therapy and making "great progress" as you called it, I think I might be much more open than I am feeling right now. I wish my wife were willing to see a therapist and really be open to addressing the issues she is facing. I know there is not a magic cure, yet for me working to be healthy is a positive thing. It is tough feeling in that undecided place.

[MontyD]

A lot happens in a week. And this week there have been lots of positives. My SO and I exchanged quite a few emails on Monday and Tuesday and I realised that I was not communicating so very well via emails, so I called on the phone to see if we could meet up and talk.  I was asked to go to her place the next day, Wednesday morning for coffee.

I could see that, maybe, the therapy was doing some good. We talked about our problems for about 3 hours, and she readily admitted that see was suffering from BPD and talked about how we could be back together and break the recycling cycle. We also arranged to go and play golf the next day.

We had a great day Thursday, had a couple of beers and a further chat about our situation. She was also suggesting that we go away together, a couple of days, but I rejected that as I thought she was pushing ahead a little too fast.

I may have to move again over to the Staying: "Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner board".

A question, where can I read about breaking the cycle of recycling and what I need to do when I see her going down hill.

MontyD

[MontyD]

I have been reading Lesson 3, Tools for communication, validation, and reinforcement of good behavior, on Staying: "Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner board".

Hopefully I will become better equiped to keep this relationship together.

MontyD

[Surnia]

Hi MontyD

I think it is very good to read through the Lessons also on the Undecided board. 

Here is something about recycling: US: "Relationship Recycling" - What is it?.

I truly believe to prevent the dynamic of push-pull validation is a really important tool.

Surnia

[Validation78]

Hi Monty!

Glad to hear that you are reading through The Lessons on the staying board. Just a reminder, there are many tools that you will find useful. Many of us have our favorites, yet they don't fit every situation, so it's a good idea to keep building, and practicing. In case you haven't already done so, please be sure to understand all you can about what BPD is and the concept of Radical Acceptance. RA is not a communication tool. It is a way for us nons to come to terms with a complicated and confusing mental illness. In order for us to be more at peace, we must come to terms with what our relationships will and won't be, and find a comfortable level of peace and acceptance with it. I still struggle with that myself!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[kl315]

Hi Monty - it's great that your pwBPD is in therapy. From what I've read here, for them to admit there is a problem and seek help is huge. My BPDbf has been in treatment for almost a year and I know it's helped him tremendously. I'm mostly on the "Staying" board but have recently bounced back and forth a bit between that and "Undecided". There are a couple of things you may want to think about.

From I know of my bf's journey (and it truly is a journey and is obviously different for each individual), there was much relief in the beginning of therapy and excitement as he realized that there WAS help for him. However, the therapy itself can be exhausting, triggering and confusing at times. There will be setbacks. We just had a huge one and MY biggest mistake was not anything I did necessarily to cause it, but that I had become complacent in the belief that he was so well on his way, the potentially catastrophic BPD behavior was behind him.

You need to be diligent that as her condition improves, there probably will be things that will still set her off which have nothing really to do with you (though you may be blamed). Freaking out (as I learned the hard way), will only take your relationship several steps back. Remaining calm, using the tools, and seeking therapy for yourself can go a long way toward difusing these situations as they come up.

You mentioned that you wish to accept her as she is, without the roadblocks. That's a great statement and could be very validating. However, her condition may well be one of the roadblocks for you... .treatment isn't a guarantee and even if it is successful, there may always be BPD behavior. I really had to drill that into my own head before I decided to stick it out with him, saying to myself, "He may ALWAYS hit__", "He may NEVER hit__", and acknowledging that having BPD is a part of who he is and if we were going to be together I would have to accept the good, the bad and everything in between (like any relationship but with BPD, the "in between" can be more of an unknown).

There's a very long post near the end of the "Success Stories" posts from a man about his BPDbf which talks about boundaries and radical acceptance. It was awesome. Look for it if you have the time. And good luck... .I have come to believe that therapy is the best way for these people we love to get the help they need, and for our relationships with them to work. But don't discount therapy for yourself... .we can never get into a pattern of blaming EVERY bad thing that happens on the BPD. We're not perfect. Sometimes, it's us and our own counseling can help us with the nonsense that WE bring to the table.

Wishing you both well... .

KL

[MontyD]

Thanks KL for the wishes and a great post.

One thing that bothers me is that I think my SO doesn't have the "full blown" BPD.  As I read thru other peoples experiences on the boards here, I see that there are some things missing. E.G. I have never seen my So go into a rage. Mixed in with the BPD she has complex post traumatic stress disorder resulting from bad experiences in the past.

Here briefly is our cycle. At the start of the cycle, we are physically close and I can see that she wants to connect both physically and emotionally but as time goes by, the cycle takes about 3 months each time, she starts to pull away emotionally then physical contact becomes impossible. At the end of the cycle, she wants me to leave, she needs "space". So I leave and let her have her space and within a week, I get text messages, phone calls, etc. and she wants me back. We never have a fight about it, even though I have been angry about having to shift out for a week or so.

I believe that fear takes over when she gets emotionally close. I believe that the fear comes from the many bad relationships she has had in the past. She has seemed to have chosen the wrong type of person and she has finished up being abused.  She had an abusive father, physically, verbally, and sexually, and it seems to me she has chosen partners that are like her father.

She says often that I'm the best man she has ever known, but I think she thinks deep down that I may just turn out to be like all the others that went before me. Could it be the results of suffering from PTSD, I can only guess.

This last time I had had enough, that was last August. I convinced her to get into therapy that I had organised for her and that started in September.  Since then we have limited contact but recently contact has increased and she is talking about getting back together.  I have resisted this by saying that I'll be back when she is in a better place.

So that is where I'm at today.

MontyD

[kl315]

I have read nearly everything I could find on BPD and honestly, am more confused than enlightened. I think that's because while each pwBPD may meet certain base criteria, the disorder manifests in each individual so differently.

I am also convinced that my dBPDbf has a "milder" case. He IS in treatment but even what I knew of him beofre that doesn't fit with a lot of what I read here and his BPD wasn't diagnosed until a period in time when life smacked him around but good, in many horrible ways a couple of years ago. You need to learn what works for your SO as it may not be the same as what works for mine, or anyone elses... .but... .the basic tools can probably still be applied.

As for her "cycle", I see some of the same in mine and ya know what? It is what it is. Regardless of what other issues nons may have, if we do not also have BPD, we can't really understand why these people we love do some of the things they do. We can't expect the relationships to play out the same way other relationships do. In a non BPD relationship, if our SO retreated and grew distant, we would ask them what was wrong without fear of setting them off, fully expect a logical answer and work through whatever the problem was. With BPD it's not something we can fix so I would say that if she needs a week to herself every three months, be as supporting and validating of it as you can and let her have it. And don't let her have it while you pace and bite your nails, counting the seconds until she calls... .truly look at it as time for yourself and time the relationship needs to grow. Trying to make her not want a break will probably only push her away (and I say this as I call on every ounce of will power I have to not pick up the phone and call my boyfriend... .we are on a mutually agreed upon, modified NC for a week after he had an "episode" and I am missing him so much tonight).

If she's still in therapy and reaching out, leave the door open. She may be more ready than she was before and it might be time to test the waters... .if YOU want to.

[MontyD]

Another week goes by and things are still looking up. We are still maintaining limited contact, a couple of hours every second day or so. I'm trying to stand my ground on the point that we don't live together until this session of therapy is completed. She has a months break over Christmas and resumes in January and completion is some time February.

I'm sure that the lessons here have helped me communicate much better now than I was before, the SET rule makes a difference. Sympathy, Empathy, Trust. Don't just read the Lessons, put them into practice, hard to do some days, but the more you try the easier it gets.

I was looking for another topic to read, "Validation and rewarding good behaviour", and now I can't find it ! Can someone point me to it.

Someone asked in another thread about how you get your SO to get into therapy, I did it OK but I can't remember how. I remember on Sunday in a great upheaval, her saying "I want to get better so I can have a proper relationship with you".  First thing Monday morning I booked her in and she had her first visit later that week.

For now I'll just keep things as they are and maybe one day soon I'll have to move to the Staying board !

MontyD

[Validation78]

Hi Monty!

Glad things are going better!

Try this link for validation! It's a superb workshop!

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation

Best Wishes,

Val78

[MontyD]

Hi Val78,

Thanks so much for the link, I am back reading thru that Lesson again, I understand what is going on there but at times I find it hard to put into practice. But I think I'm getting there.

There are a couple of things I'm still struggling with, I'm not sure if this a pwBPD trait or not, when we are apart, my SO sends me the nicest text messages, e.g. the other day " I do love you and want to share more with you". But when we are together she doesn't express any affection. I tell her often that I love her and one of my favourites is " You are the best girl in the world" and I get little response.

Is this just the way they are ? Am I expecting too much ? Some times I feel very neglected, I put a lot out there and seem to get little back.

At times she surprises me and does things so that when we do get back to living together, practical things will be easier.

MontyD

[Validation78]

Hi Monty!

I'm so glad that you are learning more about BPD. It really helps to understand, accept, and empathize!

What you describe sounds like the push/pull dynamic, which is another hallmark of BPD behavior. You can read more about it in The Lessons (links on staying board). To make a complicated thing simple, pwBPD often push you away when they feel you're getting too close, and when they feel you becoming distant, they pull you back in. I know it's hard to understand since we get mixed signals, do they want us close or not? The fact is, the fear of abandonment makes them do both things. They don't want to loose you so they pull. They don't want to get hurt when they loose you, because they have made up their minds, unbeknownst to you, that the relationship will end, and they are so afraid, they push you away. It is a self fulfilling prophesy!

The thing to remember is, that the fear of abandonment is often at the core of all the behaviors. Sometimes the behaviors make that obvious, and other times, not so much, yet, it's there! We just have to accept it, and learn how to respond to it. My method is, to keep being myself. If I want to say I love you, I say it. even if I get no response. If I want to hug, I do, even if he pushes away. If he says he wants to break up, I don't respond, and have accepted that if he wants to do so, he will. So far, it's been talk, that hurts, so I don't stick around when it starts. Some how, the desire to break up disappears, and all is well again. The point is, I don't respond to nonsense. I just work to stay in Wise Mind, and be Val. It takes a lot of practice, and oh, I do slip now and again, and that's alright too!

Never stop learning how to make changes!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[MontyD]

Another week has gone by and was being "pulled in" again. I have tried to have minimum contact but the emails and texts keep coming.  We still get together about every second day and talk. I have been keeping the boundary, that we don't get too close again until she has finished her therapy and the problems she has are being addressed.

The talks have been about what we are going to do when we are back together, and what she has planned.  I'm trying not to instigate anything with the result she is trying harder to get me back before she has finished her therapy.

Last night I gave a little and took her to dinner. At one point, she suggested that I might like to stay over night with her. We had a very pleasant evening up until the time we went home. Then the "push"  kicked in again, with me just dropping her at the front door. I didn't even get out of the car, there was no "Thank you" no "good night kiss",  and she just scurried into the house in panic.

As we discussed in the posts above, I could see that the fear of being close again was over whelming, really, it was a full blown panic attack. All I could do was to drive home. When I got home I sent her a text saying all was OK and I understood what was going on.

I really hate this push pull.  Is there a way to dampen down these wild swings ?

Do I address the underlying cause "FEAR"  and  if so, how do I go about it.

The "push pull" is the thing I find really difficult to live with, it is the only thing. Other than that we have a great time together.

I guess it is why I am undecided. If we can't get this under control, I think I'll have to leave.

MontyD

[Validation78]

Hi Monty!

I understand how these cycles can hurt, I really do. Staying in these relationships requires strength and thick skin. Actually, in every relationship, we would probably all be better off if we could learn not to take everything personally, and that is especially true with pwBPD. They experience pain and emotions that renders them unable to function in a typical manner, and as you see, want closeness, and don't want it all at the same time. It's quite sad, and even knowing this, difficult to live with.

You cannot stop the mood swings from happening, however, you can respond differently. That's what will help. Once you get over the personalization of the behaviors, you can use the tools to address what is happening. This is what validation is all about. She needs you to understand her feelings, emotions and fears. As long as she is willing to talk calmly with you, you can ask probing questions, and allow her to explain what is causing her to feel whatever emotion she is feeling. Then you have to express true empathy and understanding. Done correctly, validation is soothing and very effective, to all of us. Conversely, if she does not want to share, or cannot do so calmly (not in a rage), you must allow her to work it out on her own. If she goes into hiding, gives you the silent treatment, or just doesn't want to talk about it, don't force your need to know on her. She will eventually come around when she is ready. I find that my pwBPD often is looking for a fight, and mopes around until I ask, what's wrong. I used to bite, not anymore. I let him come to me, and ask to speak, and share. As I said before, in the meantime, I am myself. I do all I would do, as if everything was peachy. He can see that my mood is not effected by his, and I don't allow myself to believe that it's all about me.

Understanding, acceptance, and empathy are things we can learn to make the relationship more manageable for us. I admit, it doesn't make it go away, just manageable, and that's not for everyone. that's a decision only each of us can make on our own!

Best Wishes,

Val78

[MontyD]

Here is the swing back to "pull"

Since Friday nights episode, my SO could not be nicer. Saturday she went and bought me some nice new cloths for golf. Several shirts and shorts to match. I visited Saturday afternoon and we  talked, not about our relationship, but just things in general. Showed me some photos of herself when she was much younger, stayed for dinner which I was not allowed help to prepare. She could not have been more pleasant to be with.

A couple of the pairs of shorts were just a little tight, so she came around, Monday morning, and picked me up with her car, the first time in how long I can't remember, and took me to the store where we exchanged the shorts. She really just fussed over me for the whole day.

Some times I really wonder how severe her BPD is. Is there different levels ? I have never seen her get into a rage. When she does get upset she dissolves into an ocean of tears but never seems to get angry.

Another thing, I haven't mentioned here, is that we are not that young. My therapist told me that some of my SO's emotions could be put down to the onset of menopause.  And if she is handled gently, much of the BPD traits could be somewhat subdued, and if things were not done with her mental state in mind, I could make things worse.

Has any one here had this experience with pwBPD at our age ?  (50's)

I have started to realise that one of the problems that she has with me is trust, and yet I believe that I have never shown myself as being untrustworthy. Really, the Support, Empathy, Trust is starting to be a habit with me now, and I try to validate her whenever possible.

I think this issue of trust stems from her bad experiences from the past. I know that she did not mix with very nice people and she has been hurt.

So, at the moment, everything is very calm, it seems to me, but I feel there could be a touch of panic in her since the episode Friday.

MontyD

[MontyD]

Damm, double negative in the second last paragraph !

[MontyD]

Hi All,

I think I'm just about ready to shift over to the staying board. Things have been going along so well. I have been able to avoid any conflict, have not taken any comments from her as personal, I just tell myself  "it's her BPD" and move on.

We are having more and more good times together.

I'll stay here on "undecided " for the time being as I'm not quite sure how the therapy is going and what the end result will be. But so far there has been a lot of improvement. If there are serious relapses in the future, then , maybe , I'll have to leave.  At least I know now what I'm up against and the risk of her never getting any better.

I'm still waiting for a response to my question about menopause in the mix with BPD. Has anyone had any experience with this ?

MontyD 

[Surnia]

I don't have an answer to your last question.

Stepping in only for saying that I am happy for you how things are right now!   

We are having more and more good times together.

 

[MontyD]

Two more weeks gone by and things are still improving.  The mood swings are still there but seem to me, not as bad as they were in the past. Maybe I don't respond in the same way as I did. The lessons have helped me there.  Also we confront her issues together, talk and try to find ways to be more harmonious.

I really believe that her going to therapy and me having a greater understanding of what BPD is about by doing the lessons, has been the greatest help.

She is back to therapy next week and I start again the following week.  She, it appears to be "nest building" and we have a trip away together planned for the end of February. We played golf together today and had a great time.

So, things are still looking good for the future.

MontyD

[MontyD]

Things are going along so well, I think I will shift over to the "Staying" board after our trip away.

MontyD