journal entry for divorce still not filed

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hello again,

I thought I was finished with this thread but, I still don't have divorce papers in hand. After 13 months of trying to reach a settlement (really it was me trying to reach a settlement and my ex trying to make it all take as long as possible) and a two day hearing, the judge ruled and we were divorced on 9/28/12. I thought okay, I will follow the judges orders and then start getting on with my life. My attorney wrote up the journal entry to be filed, after a couple weeks, inquired with my ex's attorney, they didn't like it. My attorney made another attempt, they still didn't like it and he would not sign. The lead attorney in my attorny's office wrote it up and attached the judges transcript. After several more week and many phone calls he says it is still not to his liking so he will send a letter. Of course no letter arrived. Now my attorney has had to ask the judge to hear about these disagreements. The hearing is set for next week.

This is taking so long. Have others had this issue? If so what did you do that help move things along. Are there other things that a person like him can to keep things from being finished?

We don't have children so no custody issues.

I anticipate the closing on the property will take a while to be settled as he was to get financing by 12/26 and I haven't even heard of a closing date yet.

Other than that what else can he do?

 

[coffee shop]

Hello again,

I thought I was finished with this thread but, I still don't have divorce papers in hand. After 13 months of trying to reach a settlement (really it was me trying to reach a settlement and my ex trying to make it all take as long as possible) and a two day hearing, the judge ruled and we were divorced on 9/28/12. I thought okay, I will follow the judges orders and then start getting on with my life. My attorney wrote up the journal entry to be filed, after a couple weeks, inquired with my ex's attorney, they didn't like it. My attorney made another attempt, they still didn't like it and he would not sign. The lead attorney in my attorny's office wrote it up and attached the judges transcript. After several more week and many phone calls he says it is still not to his liking so he will send a letter. Of course no letter arrived. Now my attorney has had to ask the judge to hear about these disagreements. The hearing is set for next week.

This is taking so long. Have others had this issue? If so what did you do that help move things along. Are there other things that a person like him can to keep things from being finished?

We don't have children so no custody issues.

I anticipate the closing on the property will take a while to be settled as he was to get financing by 12/26 and I haven't even heard of a closing date yet.

Other than that what else can he do?

 

[ForeverDad]

First, with the court's transcripts in hand, your lawyer needs to inform the judge that exH is obstructing the case by refusing to cooperate.  I bet the judge will be able to get exH to agree to sign.  But it has to be done right there, so be sure you bring the proposed paperwork!  None of those lame delays to re-read and sign within 2/4/6/8/10 weeks.  If that happens then get it on the record that if he won't sign promptly, then judge will sign for him!  (Yes, that has happened before.  Rarely, but it happens.)

Second, the refinancing... .What are the consequences if exH fails to obtain financing by the agreed/ordered date?  If none are specified then you're in trouble, courts are reluctant to enforce their vague orders, expect numerous delays and excuses and finally going back to court a couple times and maybe eventually your lawyer successfully arguing that the house needs to be sold to get you off the deed/mortgage and/or let you get your equity.  Then expect exH to drag his feet finding an agent, listing the house, and then sabotaging all the prospects that come to look at the house.  He could drag it into 2014 or even longer.

Same as I said above, get teeth into the orders.  Get in writing an order by the judge that if not refinanced on time, then exH vacates within XX days and you take possession and are in charge of selling the house within X months.  Include a clause that if exH won't sign paperwork at any stage, then judge will sign for him.

[Matt]

Tell your lawyer to ask the judge to award you legal costs for this latest stuff.  If the other side is being unreasonable, they should pay your legal costs.  Have your attorney prepared to show that the work was done right and the other side is stalling.

If the other party has to pay legal costs, your ex will tell the lawyer to finish it.

[Forestaken]

My pendent lite was heard in August, hers in Sept, revisited in Oct. Each time a judgment was rendered each time her L didn't draft the correct order. She got a new L.  Her new L has requested and not received from her old L a copy of the file.

[coffee shop]

Foreverdad, I think my attorney intends on getting the judge to sign for my ex next week. I hope it goes the way it is planned.

The ex had 90 day to get financing and had to take over the payments of the loan, insurance and taxes, up until then I was paying all property costs. The loan was in my name only but we live in a state where my home became his when we married. If he doesn't have financing in 90 days then the house becomes my  responsibity again, I assume all costs but then I don't have to pay him spousal support. I then will list it for sale. He of course can also ask for an extention of time so he can secure a loan. I would guess that would be another 90 days.

I am hoping the worst case is that this continues 90 more days.

He told his attorney he wants me to pay for a list of items he said I stole from the house when I moved. Some items we never ever owned, some were things he took when he moved out and most everything else is petty things like a potato peeler, cookie sheet, etc. He also said I damaged things in the house that I didn't. I took pictures when I left and I even took out all the trash, cleaned, swept, etc. and left food and cleaning supplies.  My attorney said the judge ruled that personal items were divided according to my list and my attorney told me to make the list general which I did, so he should not have anything to come back to me about and if he does then he would have to take me to small claims court and not to divorce court.

At this point I believe he will do that too. Ugh!

I do wonder if there are other ways he can harrass me that I just don't know about. Cause I had no idea the journal entry could take this long.

[coffee shop]

1/8/13 update. My attorney and my ex's attorney have agreed to the wording on the journal entry once again. My ex still refuses to sign it until more verbage is changed. His attorney stated that what he (ex) wants is not what the judge said yet he still refuses. His attorney wants my ex to be in court when the judge reviews this because he thinks if the judge just signs it then my ex will file against it in a couple of weeks. My attorney has finally said she is going to ask to speak to the judge in his chambers this morning whether my ex is there or not. She waited off and on yesterday because he attorney kept saying he was coming, he never showed.

Next week we are scheduled for a hearing because he missed paying the december house payment (house is in my name, he is living there and was suppose to have financing set up to purchase it by 12/27/12. I made the payment in December which should mean I don't have to continue spousal support payments. I am watching to see if he makes the payment this month. My attorney stated that even if we have a hearing this month that the judge will most likely give my ex 90 more days to get the financing, allow my ex to pay me back for the missed payment in December and tell me to continue paying spousal support. I think she said this so I don't get my hopes up but I know from the past experiences in court this really could be the reality. This just is not fair! I am the one the keeps a job, pays my bills, follows the judges order to the max and he continues to do things just as always, with me footing his bills and paying attorney fees. His attorney even stated that he knows he isn't going to get paid.

And he is still telling his attorney he is going to sue me for damages to the house and a list of items he says I took that were his. None of this is true but I know that won't stop him from suing me.

[ForeverDad]

My attorney stated that even if we have a hearing this month that the judge will most likely give my ex 90 more days to get the financing, allow my ex to pay me back for the missed payment in December and tell me to continue paying spousal support.

Can your attorney get that likely scenario modified?

First, get firm consequences stated NOW (such as he vacates house and lets you take over) if he still hasn't complied with the added time to get financing.

Second, that you pay spousal support only if he reimburses his missed December payment AND you continue paying spousal support as previous agreed only if he keeps making those house payments.

Can your lawyer have those extension terms typed up and presented in court so that the judge doesn't ignore them just just grant more time "and kick the can down the road"?  If nothing is prepared in advance, odds are ex will gain time and you wn't be any better off.

Your lawyer needs to push for that, that if ex gets his extra 90 days, then those safeguards to protect you have to be included as well.  Otherwise, you'll be back in court in 90 days with the very same problem and 3 more months wasted.

By the way, this was predictable, your lawyer should have foreseen at least some of this.

[coffee shop]

Thanks ForeverDad,

I talked to my attorney this afternoon before she filed for the hearing next week. I was very firm that I am done with all this back and forth interactions between her and his attorney. My bill for Dec. alone is another $825 and all that was done was phone calls to him to get him to agree to the JE and get his client (my ex) to sign, then calling him to make the payment etc. Of course this includes when I call and email her too.

In the Motion she stated that he (my ex) was suppose to start finding finanacing immediately and have it accomplished in 90 days. She also stated that he could ask for an extention. As of the filing of this motion he had not refinanced the property nor did he request the court to grant him an extension.

She states what the JE says about making the payments with in the first 10 days of each month and that he did not do so in Dec. and that I did make that payment. She stated the JE allows me to petition the court to have imediate possession of the residence and place it on the market and that all my mortage payments I have to make from this time forward be reimbursed from the sale proceeds.

She states again that the property be returned to me, and that the court enter an order to terminate my obligation to pay spousal maintenance effective Dec. 1. I think this has a lot more meat in it then anything I have seen so far. I don't know if it will help. I will know on the 15hth

[livednlearned]

Thanks ForeverDad,

I talked to my attorney this afternoon before she filed for the hearing next week. I was very firm that I am done with all this back and forth interactions between her and his attorney. My bill for Dec. alone is another $825 and all that was done was phone calls to him to get him to agree to the JE and get his client (my ex) to sign, then calling him to make the payment etc. Of course this includes when I call and email her too.

In the Motion she stated that he (my ex) was suppose to start finding finanacing immediately and have it accomplished in 90 days. She also stated that he could ask for an extention. As of the filing of this motion he had not refinanced the property nor did he request the court to grant him an extension.

She states what the JE says about making the payments with in the first 10 days of each month and that he did not do so in Dec. and that I did make that payment. She stated the JE allows me to petition the court to have imediate possession of the residence and place it on the market and that all my mortage payments I have to make from this time forward be reimbursed from the sale proceeds.

She states again that the property be returned to me, and that the court enter an order to terminate my obligation to pay spousal maintenance effective Dec. 1. I think this has a lot more meat in it then anything I have seen so far. I don't know if it will help. I will know on the 15hth

I have tried to figure out, in my own case, if my L leaves things vague with no consequences because there she is sloppy (ie. busy), or if it's because she likes the steady income. It's one of the reasons why people hate lawyers. There is no consequence for your exH, and there is no consequence for your L, or his L, if you guys drag this out. Sometimes there is a consequence that the judge is aware of, which is backlogging his courts. Where I live, keeping things out of court and moving along in a timely matter is very well documented, and people get voted out when they do a bad job of it.

But the Ls -- no consequences for them. If they are sloppy, we pay them more. If I had the time, I'm sure I could go back through my files and see how much vague language actually cost me in the long run.

I'm saying this because FD is right -- it's predictable. Lawyers need to make sure that there are consequences especially after the first time the opposing party does not follow the order, or judge, or rule.

[Matt]

We can ask, "What happens when Ex doesn't do what he's supposed to do?"  "What happens when Ex doesn't follow the order?"  "What happens when Ex doesn't pay?"

Not "if", "when".

And keep asking.

"Why are we bothering to file this, when Ex can just ignore it?  Then I pay you, and he pays his attorney, and nothing was accomplished."

Our final order contained a big section specifying that my ex must get psychotherapy to deal with her diagnosed psychological disorders.  She just ignored it.  No consequences.  I knew she would ignore it but by that time I didn't care - trying to enforce it would never work.  But I sure as heck didn't want to pay my lawyer to work on that issue when in the end it would mean nothing anyway.

[coffee shop]

In all my frustration about spending too much time on getting my ex to do what he was ordered to do, I forgot to tell everyone that my JE was signed by my ex finally! 102 days after the divorce trial.  One step closer! I need to remember to celebrate each step.

[coffee shop]

This also means I can get my protection order back in the system because my old one had expired and I had to wait for the JE that has the extension of that order.

[coffee shop]

recieved a copy of a motion from my ex to extend the time of refiancing of the property. His reasons are that he has not received spousal support (it was sent to the payment center but since we didn't have the JE completed his attorney could not complete the paperwork to get the money forwarded to him). He says my attorney didn't send them a proposed JE until 1/8/13 when in reality she sent it several times and they kept finding thing wrong, my attorney would rewrite and then in the end his attorney had to tell him to sign it. And then he says he couldn't get refinanced because the JE was complete and no fiancial institution would consider a loan. I am so upset I am shaking. I really think my attorney is right and that I will have to wait 90 more days, I will have to continue to pay him spousal suppport and he will continue to find ways to make me pay whether it is with more delays and more attorney fee or whatever way he can.

[birdlady]

In all my frustration about spending too much time on getting my ex to do what he was ordered to do, I forgot to tell everyone that my JE was signed by my ex finally! 102 days after the divorce trial.  One step closer! I need to remember to celebrate each step.

I think that you said something important. This is a process and each small step forward needs celebration. I could tell you all the lies that my stbx has told, but it is more important to celebrate each lie that has been uncovered in ways that have legal weight.  I believe people with the traits that bring us to these boards all act in similar ways in divorce, even when they are the ones who want the divorce.  Ours are the 10% of high conflict divorces because that is the nature of the disorder(s). The better I'm able to accept that it is the way it is, the better I'm able to make good decisions in concert with my lawyer. It sure is a learning process. Once separated and NC it got easier because the crazy making is indirect. Having a strong lawyer who has a handle on the BPD (w/NPD traits) traits we are dealing with has made a huge difference. Some of those traits mean the stbx thinks they are above the law. We've had to threaten sactions and contemp of court to get compliance or stipulations.  The stbx doesnt realize that their lies can be turned onto ammunition. Of course things also vary by jurisdiction. Evidently the judge here has see this all before, too, so I'm fortunate. In any case, celebrate the small steps. What we here deal with in these divorces is a real survival accomplishment.

[coffee shop]

Went to court yesterday to address the xh lack of fiancing on the property he is living in that is in my name and the fact that he has missed the last 2 house payments.

He had filed a counter motion stating I had not paid spousal support and with 2 excuses for not having the financing which was to be done by 12/27/12.

My attorney showed the spousal support had been paid and had the JE showing the deadlines for the finacing.

The judge believed the xh excuse for not getting the financing but I think he also thinks the xh is not really trying. My attorney shared that he doesn't have a job so the judge did question him about that.

At the end of the hearing (very short, my attorney was not allowed to address all the items listed in our motion) the judge continued the hearing for 2 weeks. At that time the xh has to show significant proof that he is getting financing.  He is to have an appraiser report and that spousal support is held in abeyance. I asked my attorney what is abeyance and she said it is suspended for now but don't spend the money I didn't give him because the judge may rule later that I have to pay it.

Since we didn't have a clue what would happen (new judges for the year started monday) I am not too upset. Of course I want xh to get it financed because that would be the quickest way for me to get out of this. I honestly don't think there is anyway he can get the money unless his parent write the check (he is 56) which I don't think they want to do. Each day he gets to prolong this, he gets to live there free and delays me from moving on with my life (I live with friends because I can't afford to pay him spousal support and the house payment when he doesn't pay it.

At the same time the judge could have given him 90 more days to get this done without checking on him. so I am still  waiting. him to do what he should do so I can move on. 

[ForeverDad]

I think it went reasonably well.  Sounds like the judge is going to try to 'walk' your ex through the process.

However, it also seems that the judge realizes you shouldn't pay support AND ex's financial obligations.

At the next hearing ex will probably come back with minimal progress and some more excuses, needing more delays.  (He's not working so he can't claim he didn't have time to get those things done.)  I think you need to have your lawyer press for the judge to start telling ex that at the same time he is seeking financing he also needs to be working on Plan B which is for ex to move out and let you take over.  Why bring it up now?  What you want to avoid is months from now having him eventually fail to get financing and then the judge give him an additional 60-90 days to relocate.  You want that clock ticking ASAP.  Keep things moving along, otherwise court will move at glacial speed and the judge and lawyers won't care a bit about the delays and time wasted.

Frankly, with ex not working, it may be unrealistic to count on him getting financing on his own.  All need to accept that refinancing is only Plan A, that Plan B needs to be decided very, very soon.  (If your settlement only included Pie-In-The-Sky Plan A and didn't include Plan B, you better get a proposed revision written up and handed to the judge at your next hearing for discussion/signing.)

If the judge later reinstates support, be sure to get your additional expenses deducted from the support owed.  Don't expect the judge to remember those details.  Speak up or forever hold your peace.  Sound familiar?

I too faced that problem of court being just a half hour time slice at most and only a couple items from our long list getting discussed.  Prioritize your list, put the most important things at the top.  They either need to be important or very quick to deal with.

[coffee shop]

thanks again Forever.

I am hopeful that after 2 weeks of being a judge in family court, this guy will have much more experience and he will quickly see through my xh's schemes. LOL!