How "sick" can they be, really?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Greetings, All 

I've been on this board for over 2+ years, I'm a single mom with 2 sons: one almost 20, has Asperger's and who's gone NC with his father and the youngest is 16, has alternating weekends/visitation with his father.  Father is uBPD/NPD for those that are not familiar with my "story" and left in 2010.

This is more of a "reality" post from what I've experienced in dealing with someone with a pd (personality disorder), having older kids and where life has taken us (me and my boys)... .a post that the insanity in the n/BPD world can continue even after the divorce, the custody settlement, etc.  It is truly amazing how n/BPD's continue to "do things" years after all the b.s. 

Recognizing my ex's pd's for what they are and for me, being so much mentally healthier than what I was in 2010, I'm still flabbergasted over his un/BPD drama... .and for those of you with older kids (teens) who wonder "how to tell them about the pd" - this might enlighten you... .

I've always taken the higher road when dealing with my x; never spoken "ill" of the man in front of his 16-year old who has a much different relationship with his father than our 19-year old (19-year old rejected by father due to Asperger's; 16-year old is the epidomy in his father's eyes).

In a nutshell back in September, my 16-year old was busted by me and his best friend’s mother (our neighbor) for being high on marijuana.  I had a long discussion with pd-dad regarding son’s extra-curricular activities that were laughed at by my n/BPDxh; I was told I was ridiculous for grounding him, I had no right in getting into S16’s Twitter and FaceBook accounts, etc.  I learned, at that time, that S16 had stolen pot from his father and told him (x) to lock it up, get rid of it, etc.

Over the past two weeks, S16 was arrested at school and released in my custody for marijuana... .as the story grows, father has taken S16 to his (father’s) dealer’s house and has smoked pot with him.  Really.

In dealing with un/BPDxh I have filed a motion to suspend his custody and visitation with S16 – this is child abuse.  I went against Friend of the Court (in Michigan we have FOC to help us with ‘issues’ regarding dead-beat parents = those who don’t pay child support, uphold visitation, etc.) and violated parenting time between S16 and dear-old-dad.

Through all of S16’s legal issues (being charged with Minor in Possession) I told S16 he’s not seeing his father the weekend prior to Christmas as scheduled.  S16 called his dad and told him I wasn’t allowing him to go.  Of course, daddy-o became unhinged and S16 overheard his rage since I wasn’t allowing parenting time (S16’s cell only works on speaker phone)…it was, afterall, Christmas.  I reminded x that our son was released in MY custody; if it weren’t for me, he’d be in juvenile detention and no one would see him for the holidays.  I even suggested a supervised meeting at a restaurant where he could give S16 his Christmas presents and x accepted that olive branch.  S16 apologized to me for his father’s rage stating: “I never thought THAT would happen, I’m sorry, Mom.”  (Mind you, told him that his father’s rage isn’t anything he needed to feel guilty about nor prompted, that’s his father’s choice of behavior towards me.)

At the restaurant, I sat at a separate table and they had their time together…after an hour S16 came over and said: “Dad wants to speak to both of us regarding the pot.”

I joined their table and was floored at his (x’s) proposal = “I’ll surrender parenting time/visitation if you don’t move forward with the motion before the judge.” 

Really?  Bottom line, X doesn’t want to be “caught” in child abuse and said in front of S16 that his “activities” are no one’s business, it’s HIS (x’s) time, and he’ll give up visitations and no more raging at me if I drop the motion.

I held steadfast, stating I cannot trust either one of them; it’s too bad that x cannot put the wacky-weed down for 71 days out of 365 and our S16 needs to get clean.  I’m not being “evil” and court supervised visitations are fine so I can ensure that S16 is getting clean…trust has been broken, I don’t trust either one of them.

Court date is January 4th regarding x’s visitation/custody…I cannot believe that x tried to bargain with me…they are truly looking out for only themselves and unfortunately, S16, now realizes that his father has chosen pot over him.

Sometimes the high road pays off, it’s best they learn on their own and if you did try to educate them as to their other parent’s “ways” – they wouldn’t listen…they need to experience it for themselves.

For all the b.s. I’ve had to deal with over the past couple of weeks with S16, pot and my x…S16 said something that resonates with me…I said in conversation that I wish I could fast-forward into 1-year from now, S16 said: “I don’t, I don’t want to fast-forward because right now is building my character…”

[Realization]

Greetings, All 

I've been on this board for over 2+ years, I'm a single mom with 2 sons: one almost 20, has Asperger's and who's gone NC with his father and the youngest is 16, has alternating weekends/visitation with his father.  Father is uBPD/NPD for those that are not familiar with my "story" and left in 2010.

This is more of a "reality" post from what I've experienced in dealing with someone with a pd (personality disorder), having older kids and where life has taken us (me and my boys)... .a post that the insanity in the n/BPD world can continue even after the divorce, the custody settlement, etc.  It is truly amazing how n/BPD's continue to "do things" years after all the b.s. 

Recognizing my ex's pd's for what they are and for me, being so much mentally healthier than what I was in 2010, I'm still flabbergasted over his un/BPD drama... .and for those of you with older kids (teens) who wonder "how to tell them about the pd" - this might enlighten you... .

I've always taken the higher road when dealing with my x; never spoken "ill" of the man in front of his 16-year old who has a much different relationship with his father than our 19-year old (19-year old rejected by father due to Asperger's; 16-year old is the epidomy in his father's eyes).

In a nutshell back in September, my 16-year old was busted by me and his best friend’s mother (our neighbor) for being high on marijuana.  I had a long discussion with pd-dad regarding son’s extra-curricular activities that were laughed at by my n/BPDxh; I was told I was ridiculous for grounding him, I had no right in getting into S16’s Twitter and FaceBook accounts, etc.  I learned, at that time, that S16 had stolen pot from his father and told him (x) to lock it up, get rid of it, etc.

Over the past two weeks, S16 was arrested at school and released in my custody for marijuana... .as the story grows, father has taken S16 to his (father’s) dealer’s house and has smoked pot with him.  Really.

In dealing with un/BPDxh I have filed a motion to suspend his custody and visitation with S16 – this is child abuse.  I went against Friend of the Court (in Michigan we have FOC to help us with ‘issues’ regarding dead-beat parents = those who don’t pay child support, uphold visitation, etc.) and violated parenting time between S16 and dear-old-dad.

Through all of S16’s legal issues (being charged with Minor in Possession) I told S16 he’s not seeing his father the weekend prior to Christmas as scheduled.  S16 called his dad and told him I wasn’t allowing him to go.  Of course, daddy-o became unhinged and S16 overheard his rage since I wasn’t allowing parenting time (S16’s cell only works on speaker phone)…it was, afterall, Christmas.  I reminded x that our son was released in MY custody; if it weren’t for me, he’d be in juvenile detention and no one would see him for the holidays.  I even suggested a supervised meeting at a restaurant where he could give S16 his Christmas presents and x accepted that olive branch.  S16 apologized to me for his father’s rage stating: “I never thought THAT would happen, I’m sorry, Mom.”  (Mind you, told him that his father’s rage isn’t anything he needed to feel guilty about nor prompted, that’s his father’s choice of behavior towards me.)

At the restaurant, I sat at a separate table and they had their time together…after an hour S16 came over and said: “Dad wants to speak to both of us regarding the pot.”

I joined their table and was floored at his (x’s) proposal = “I’ll surrender parenting time/visitation if you don’t move forward with the motion before the judge.” 

Really?  Bottom line, X doesn’t want to be “caught” in child abuse and said in front of S16 that his “activities” are no one’s business, it’s HIS (x’s) time, and he’ll give up visitations and no more raging at me if I drop the motion.

I held steadfast, stating I cannot trust either one of them; it’s too bad that x cannot put the wacky-weed down for 71 days out of 365 and our S16 needs to get clean.  I’m not being “evil” and court supervised visitations are fine so I can ensure that S16 is getting clean…trust has been broken, I don’t trust either one of them.

Court date is January 4th regarding x’s visitation/custody…I cannot believe that x tried to bargain with me…they are truly looking out for only themselves and unfortunately, S16, now realizes that his father has chosen pot over him.

Sometimes the high road pays off, it’s best they learn on their own and if you did try to educate them as to their other parent’s “ways” – they wouldn’t listen…they need to experience it for themselves.

For all the b.s. I’ve had to deal with over the past couple of weeks with S16, pot and my x…S16 said something that resonates with me…I said in conversation that I wish I could fast-forward into 1-year from now, S16 said: “I don’t, I don’t want to fast-forward because right now is building my character…”

[Matt]

It's very tempting to be nice, but with drugs, if you ignore it, it will get worse, especially with a young person.

Forget about your ex's drug use;  if he doesn't want to stop he won't stop.

Focus on your son's drug use and the underlying causes.  Check out programs in your area - residential treatment maybe, or NA (Narcotics Anonymous, which is just like AA), or maybe an outpatient program.  Not just "education" - education alone doesn't work very well.

What works best, I'm told by people in this field, is a combination of consequences (including incarceration) and residential treatment.  Maybe your son won't need that, but if at some point he is incarcerated it's not the end of the world, and it could be what he needs - along with the right treatment - to change his behavior.

Let him know that your goal is to help him be clean, sober and healthy.  He will probably react well to that.  Don't present treatment (residential, outpatient and/or NA) as punishment for sins.  Present it as help so he can be healthier.

Also, counseling or therapy is important, to address the underlying causes.  Kids who are psychologically and emotionally healthy probably won't turn to drugs.  If you treat the drug use but don't address the underlying causes, he'll probably turn back to drugs sooner or later.

(My stepson was raised by his BPD mom.  I married her when he was 18.  He had been drinking since 12, on meth since about 15.  Never clean and sober til his late 20s.  Then he got rehab which helped him a lot - not just with drugs but with the underlying problems.  Now he's in prison for stuff that happened many years ago before he got clean.  He's been clean and sober more than 4 years and is a great guy.  But a very painful example of how early drug use tends to lead to addiction.)

[Realization]

Agreed, Matt!

S16 is currently enrolled in a teen Substance Abuse program that he attends 3x per week for 3-hours each session.  After the holidays he'll have an individual counselor who can focus on his root-causes for substance abuse.  As you said, the focus is on getting him clean so he can fulfill his life's dreams - we've had very healthy discussions on goals for him so he can "live and prosper" as an adult.  He also knows that if he continues with drugs (or other poor choices in life) I will not be there to bail him out of his troubles = becoming incarcerated the next time (Mommy isn't going to rescue you).

As you said, the focus is on him, the root (underlying) causes and life's consequences for poor decisions because at 16 - they feel "untouchable" and can do it all without consequences... .lessons learned.

[Matt]

What is your son's view of all this - is he actively committed to getting clean and staying clean, or is it you and others making him do it?

I think your focus on letting him experience consequences is a tough one but very important.  If he experiences consequences while he's still a minor, that record may be sealed when he turns 18 - check out how it works in your state.  And consequences at an early age may have more impact than later.

[Realization]

Matt:

Thank you for your responses... .

S16 says he wants to get clean this time... .he was caught back in September by me and my neighbor (his bf's mother) high on pot last September.

He confessed to me that back in September, he had no intention of quitting pot, now that he's been arrested/released into my custody and has a pending court date ahead of him (we're awaiting the court paperwork/his hearing date)... .he realizes that he needs to get clean since, in Michigan, if he were caught "in possession" at the age of 17 (5 months away) he'd be charged as an adult, there would not be a phone call to mommy, he'd be in jail and wouldn't be graduating from high school in June 2014.

After going through a few of the substance abuse sessions, he has told me that he "doesn't belong there" as there are teens in the program that are far worse off than he is (12-year old on meth, gangster-type teens, etc.) and he is picking up on/sharing some lessons from the sessions with me.  

He understands/accepts that he will have an individual counselor so he can get to the underlying causes of his "self-medication" (I cannot give him ANY reasons... .he needs to get to those on his own).  What he does during his individual counseling sessions, I cannot control or force him into active participation and only he can get into the nitty-gritty.

We've also been watching a show called "Beyond Scared Straight" on cable TV that follows troubled teens (whether it's for bullying, substance abuse, stealing, etc.) who's parents enroll them in an overnight jail program, they're treated like adult criminals and the TV cameras follow them through their overnight experience.

As the days go by, he has often said that he needs to get/stay clean... .he has too much to look forward to in life.  Prior to his arrest he thought "it could never happen to him" - he's been humbled.

Here's hoping... .you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him thinking... .

[Matt]

That sounds really encouraging.  Maybe if you keep encouraging him, reinforcing what he says that is positive, and showing him that you care about him and respect his good choices, he'll do what's right and stay clean.  (I sure wish my son and I had gone down the path you and your son are going down, when my son was his age!)

Another thing that may help you - not your son, but you - is Al-Anon.  (There is Nar-Anon for family members of drug users, but it's not very common.  Al-Anon teaches the same stuff.)  What I mean is, taking care of yourself, so whatever happens with your son, you will be strong.  What I learned (the hard way) is that I have no control over what my son chooses - I have some influence, but ultimately it's his struggle - and if I let myself get beaten down by his struggle, I can't live my own life and I'm no good to him either.  Being strong and independent - not depending on how he does - is the right strategy for me, but a big change from how I looked at things a few years ago.

It may be good for you too, to deal with this codependence that is very common among parents of addicts.  (I'm not saying your son is an addict, only that it could be helpful to you to learn about codependence, to make yourself stronger.)

[Realization]

Another thing that may help you - not your son, but you - is Al-Anon.  (There is Nar-Anon for family members of drug users, but it's not very common.  Al-Anon teaches the same stuff.)  What I mean is, taking care of yourself, so whatever happens with your son, you will be strong. 

It may be good for you too, to deal with this codependence that is very common among parents of addicts.  (I'm not saying your son is an addict, only that it could be helpful to you to learn about codependence, to make yourself stronger.)

Ah, yes, Co-dependence (Co-d)... .I have the book "Codependent No More" and have begun re-reading it along with delving into MY nitty gritty with all this with my T (therapist) at my next appointment in a couple of weeks.

It would be much easier to take the Co-D road... .ground my S16 so I know where he is every waking moment, have him under my nose 24/7 but as I told him right after Christmas: "You know the rules in my house; zero tolerance of substance abuse.  As your mother, I will provide you tools to get clean but I cannot MAKE you use them, that is up to YOU.  If the judge slaps you with a fine, I will NOT pay it - you will have to ask the judge if you can do community service to pay off your debt/fine.  You have your privledges back (he has a car - that is in my name) until we hear from the judge if your license is suspended.  If the judge suspends your license, I will sell the car and recoup my losses (I still owe on the vehicle and he hasn't been able to find work since the summer/help with the car/insurance payments).  You are no longer grounded, it's time for you to decide what path you will take in your life; regardless of the path you take, I will ALWAYS love you but I will not keep coming to your aide for YOUR bad choices."

Only time will tell... .

[NorthernGirl]

Realization -- after reading your post, I just wanted to give you a thumbs up  for the good work you are doing. I understand how hard it is to support your son through all of this.

SS20 has been in addiction treatment programs and we continue to deal with this daily. In his case, he started using alcohol and marijuana when he was about 13 to self-medicate for anxiety while living with his mom (UBPD). When he tried to move in with DH, his mom raged for weeks and SS20's alcohol and drug use escalated. He's reluctantly attended several treatment programs over the years, and after his most recent one (picked by his mom) SS20 now says he is "cured." When he was 16 he was in juvenile jail but his mom got him into a program that allowed him to show up at a counselor once in awhile so he was able to stay out of jail and not have a record. While this was going on, she hid his stealing  - gave him money to pay off his debts, refused to call the police and convinced others not to call the police when he was caught. SS20 and his mom continue to be co-dependent (she rewarded his "cure" with a huge shopping spree.)

DH and I attended Al Anon and read lots of their information. We found an Al Anon group of parents of alcoholics, and that group really helped DH learn what he needed to focus on (setting boundaries, not covering for his son, etc.) We spent lots of time talking with SS20's counselors and developing our own rules and strategies. His counselors have told us that when SS20 is truly ready to deal with his addiction, he will turn to DH because he knows that he can trust him (addicts learn they can manipulate and push their enablers, but not rely on them when they want to stay sober.)

I didn't know DH and his kids when all of this first began. By the time I was in the picture, SS20 had been using for several years. I don't know that DH could have stopped SS20 from the path he was on (one of Al Anon's beliefs is that you remind yourself that you didn't cause the alcoholism) but certainly in the early stages DH's instinct was to protect and defend SS20. He realizes now that he probably "helped" in the wrong way at first.

So the hard things you are doing -- such as making sure your son takes responsibility for what he has done, setting house rules you live by -- are very important. Keep up the great work and get whatever support you need.