How do pwBPD cope w/baby for the first 4 months?

[mikmik]

FM,

Your daughter saying she will love her child no matter what... (maybe she will get that you love her no matter what when the baby arrives)

When baby has colic and will not settle

When baby wakes every two hours to eat, then poops in the clean diaper you just put on

When baby throws up on your only clean shirt you have left

When you can't do anything, because the baby needs to be held

When the baby is too hot, too cold, too thristy, too wet, too tired, too awake

When she realizes that she has to put herself aside to care for another, whose needs are great and endless and ever changing.

I wonder how it is for pwBPD to have someone who demands the whole world pays attention to just them and their needs, I wonder how it is in the first four months of the the baby's life, when your dd has to come to terms with the fact the baby has no concern for her, her needs, her pain, her desires.  I wonder how it is for a person with BPD to be contronted with the same behavior they exhibit.  How do they deal?

Is that too cruel of a question to pose?  I know there are grandmothers on the board.  How did your daughters deal with the first four months?  Were they able to put themselves aside?  :)oes something deep from within kick in, and does the nuturing mother appear?

Mik

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[peaceplease]

My uBPDd was very good with my gs when he was an infant.  She was very good with changing his diapers.  With that being said, my gs was a very easy baby.  Now, if my gs was a challenging baby,(colic) then things may have been different.  I think that my gs was the easiest baby, ever!  My dd was very maternal with him, though.  It was when he was getting into the toddler stage, that she wasn't so attentive, and it was more about her.  But, then that is when her addiction to drugs was really bad.  Her number one priority was to get her fix for the day.

And, now, my gs is 6.  I would say at times, my dd puts my gs before herself.  But, I can't say that is the case the majority of the time.  And, she fails to look at the big picture, and realize that she makes poor choices that affect her ds.  But, she has improved with age.  I just told my sister today, that I believe that my dd has grown up in many ways.  And, my sister agreed with me.  She has matured a lot.

I hope these positive remarks don't come back to bite me.  I am superstitious like that!

[qcarolr]

With my gd7 the whole little family lived in our home and I was way too involved. Trying to make the 'happy family fantasy' a reality. Dd and the dad did care for gd during the day when dh and I were gone. When we were home, dh and I spent most of the evening with the baby. Looking back I was too involved - fearful of DD failing at parenting so I was working very hard to 'protect' everyone from this. This baby's birth was the trigger for a huge decline in my health that peaked when gd was about 18 months and we were getting custody. Dd did OK when the daddy was around - but he kept taking off for weeks at a time. Ultimately he ended up in jail for a year and DD left gd to us while she spent most of her time doing cocaine with her friends. I did not know what to do, so loved my gd, went to work, tried to get DD to get back into our life. All very desparate.

Then gs5 came along. Dh and I chose very consiously to not get so attached or involved. It was hard. There was some neglect - filty, roach infested apt., lots of acohol and drugs, etc. When DD called she was killing herself and for us to come get the baby, we called 911 and refused to take him into our home. He was place soon after that into foster care - 5 months old.

I did not know DD had BPD, did not even know what that was, until her testing ordered by the family court. The daddy got deported, DD and his rights were terminated and the baby was adopted by the foster parents. Dd still blames me for allowing her to lose her son. And she still believes I stole her daughter. I hope one day she is strong enough within herself to get some therapy to cope with the pain of all this. That she was the one who could not provide for her kids - put their needs first. She is trying hard to have a r/s with gd now - and there is a friend-like r/s growing. But I do not see her becoming the primary parent any time soon. DD is trying very hard to be here for her little girl - yet it is mostly at DD's convenience.

Hope this is not too far off topic. I am struggling tonight with keeping to the point. When DD gets angry, like just a couple days ago, and brings up all these old hurts - I still feel a lot of the pain. Some of it belongs to me, some of it really belongs to DD. She said she keeps it stuffed most of the time. She is good at this - not letting her emotions show.

I did not realize until writing this here how much I am suffering from this today - feeling sadness. Gd seems sad too.

qcr  

[heronbird]

Wow

Good point mic. You know my dd is 19 weeks pregnant now, she finds out on Thurs if its boy or girl. She is so excited and making such good choices, given up smoking, no cannabis, not touching a drop of drink and no meds other than the mild ones she is on.

When I see her with other children or babies, for example if she is holding a baby who is crying, I see dds face, she has so much empathy, where as I just feel like this is so annoying, dd says to baby, its ok, ahhhh I really know how you feel, I understand, and she is very nurturing, its interesting to see.

I see similarities in toddler and pwBPD, so maybe dd will be good. I asked dd what will she do if her baby is crying badly and just wont stop, say she is at the shops and everyone is looking, she said she will put her headphones on. Good idea I think.

I think she will be a good mum, she only meant she would put headphones on if there was nothing else she could do and quite right too, babies are manipulative like that and its so horrid if you are out.

Mic, I think you have very good points, interesting too.

qcarolr,

so sorry, thats soo hard isnt it, we cant change the past, you did the very best you could at the time. And we have all regrets, so you have had your nose rubbed in it but you cant go back. You made a big decision  and you know what I bet you didnt do that lightly did you. Dont forget, in hindsight, its easy to think you did the wrong thing because you forget how things were at the moment. It was not your baby. It was her choice, you had your babies didnt you.Why should we all have to have our childrens children when it was their choice to have them in the first place. What would one do when its baby number 5 and we are 60, you cant do everything. Dont feel bad.

[mikmik]

qcr, peaceplease, heron,

It sounds like, and I must say I it is interesting, that pwBPD can deal with the stress of the infant's needs.  They can feed the baby, change diapers, and in heron's case, her dd can empathize with the needs and how they are expressed.

More interesting is that it seems the stress of the continued needs of children (till they are 18 and beyond) becomes the tipping point for pwBPD.  They can feel the deep attachment and can relate to the outright demands and needs of the baby.  They can relate.  However, the issue is sustaining that care.  What, I wonder, becomes the turn off for them and their children later on?  What switches the selflessness of being a parent, to the selfishness of BPD?  I don't think it is because they are bad people.  What is the turning point, where they can't (like when they were in school and could not focus, get stuff done, wake up... .) just "do it"?

Maybe this is a good talking point for the moms to be.  Maybe if they know, it is ok to feel stressed and overwhelmed.  But they need to let people (their moms? or trusted adult friend?) know when their feelings begin to take over.  They need to acknowledge when it is creeping up on them and ask for help.  Could this be the tool that allows them to get through parenting when they want to turn away?

I guess from the wealth of knowledge from the women who have posted, there is a pattern (as with all pwBPD).  And most of us would have liked to have info about out kids where they were much younger.  Maybe having this knowledge about parenting and BPD, BPD patterns can be anticiapted and a plan can be in place?

Is this off topic?

mik

[heronbird]

 

I seem to of noticed a lot of people posted that their dd was ok while pregnant, it was after that it was hard.

I keep trying to tell dd that they will only take the baby away if she does not ask for help when she needs it.

Im not sure she gets it though, time will tell.

I like your point about maybe they will realise how we love them unconditionally when they have a baby. I wish they would, I wish it were that easy. But as you brought it up, I think I will say it to my dd, sometimes its good to put thoughts like that in their heads.

mik

My dd really does empathise with babies, its unusual but its never quite the same as when its your own baby crying a lot, day in and day out. You are on call 24/7 then, different story.

I wonder how she will be when she cant buy a new bag or make up because she has to get milk or nappies, that will be interesting. She said she is going to bring it up exactly the same way I brought her up  I was surprised

[parent of bpd daughter]

This is a good topic for discussion. My 32yo BPD is gay so I thought I would never have this child issue to concern myself with - however, her partner's mother - wanting a grandchild despite all the red flags and 15 different meds the pair is on between the 2, has paid for artificial insemination for her daughter to give birth. Kind of like that sci fi movie where surrogate mothers are used for infertile women - just sickening and sad and should be illegal, but I digress.

Anyway - Here's my take - warning it is a negative cynical hypothesis because I am in a place of reality and out of the "FOG" at this moment with my own BPDD.

Many BPD's I have noticed have coexisting NPD characterstics alot of the time - you know the "I hate you, don't leave me" thing. I think BPD/NPD is more prevalent than is documented in many cases.

My thought is that for BPD/NPD's - the idea of a helpless infant that they have 100% control of is very appealing. The BPD/NPD is the ruler of this being's universe - the GOD of it's world - this appeals to their sense of grandiosity. They can dress it, control what goes into it's mouth, and Most importantly - Show it Off like a prized possession in public. The infant attracts attention to the BPD and they so crave this attention. The infant is Idealized because it has no independent thought or speech until it becomes a toddler. They are the proud owners of a shiny new toy that everyone else wants. Not sure why they don't just get a puppy - it would be more humane.

I believe BPD's, if not maternal, will at least fake it while the child is an infant. They can nurture the infant in the way they wished to be nurtured still - maybe fulfilling something they thought they didn't get in infancy themselves. They can live THRU this infant for a time and it can be satisfying for them UNTIL the infant develops independent thought - then they are useless to the BPD and tossed around amongst family members.

Hope I wasn't offensive - just keeping it real - I just know my own BPDD is incapable of empathy - but she can fake it really well if she's being watched.

When the child starts walking is when problems start - they no longer have control over this being and even worse - the BPD's are held responsible for this being's behavior - as we all know BPD's don't even take responsibiity for their OWN behavior.

I know alot of ths sounds more like NPD than BPD - but from what I have seen (exMIL, Mother, Sister, oldest daughter) ther is definitely a high incidence of comorbidity of BPD and NPD.

[qcarolr]

My D seemed ot like being pregnant - lots of positive attention. With gd7 she took really good care of herself to have a healthy baby. She had post-partem depression and was anemic - made things harder for her. I can really see the changes as the child becomes a seperate person - even at 5-6 months.

Heron - If your D has enjoyed babies and young kids during her life, this is a plus. If she accepts the support that is out there, this is good. And you encouraging her to ask for help - such a great skill for her to be developing. Does she hope to find out it is a boy or a girl?

qcr  

[js friend]

I would have to say that atm Iam as cyncial as Parent of BPD daughter as to whether my dd18 will be able to put her own needs aside to care for her baby... She has never had the patience for babies  and hearing them cry has always irritated her. Another thing is that she has always struggled routines for herself so it will be interesting to see how she copes with  making bottles over and over again and getting up in the middle of night to seeing to them when you are tired and physically and mentally worn out.Caring for a baby can be quite monotonous and isolating as we all know, but she thinks everything will easy and I hope it will be for her but she isnt very realistic. My dd is a know- it -all, but I do hope that she will be able to put all that aside and  ask for help if she needs it, and doesnt see me as trying to take over her take her child away from her.

But atm my dd is loving the attention this pregnancy has given her.So sad that she is still  making it all about her though with the birth just days away. I have been helping her... .  and now she feels that I have been doing too much and trying to take over!

Up until a few months ago she was still talking about adoption because she felt she wasnt getting enough support and no-one was helping her... .  so yet again she makes it about her and not the baby   

Even when we have sat down and discussed buying baby stuff she has said that she doesnt want her baby to have certain items of clothes and equipment  because SHE doesnt like them... .  so she makes it about her yet again.

Hearing her talk like that doesnt give me reassurance that she is ready to a baby's needs before her own.  

[heronbird]

q carolr,

yes dd is so so so excited to find out tomorrow if its boy or girl. Im nervous to know if it is ok really as she is on meds that she was told you can not get pregnant on because its so dangerous.

She has been around children a lot, she never showed much interest untill about about 5 years ago.  Its like with animals, I remember when we got kittens, she was 3, she wasnt that excited, I just thought she wasnt an animal person. Now she says she loves the new kittens we got and she wants a kitten, she wants two bearded dragons and a fish tank. Now she has had fish for a year or more, she is a very good fish mother haha, seriously though, she was overly caring towards them, she cant go away for a day without worrying about them and needing someone to feed them. haha, fish/ babies, not the same eh but, at the end of the day NPD nor not, she is completely ruled by her emotions and how she is feeling at that particular time. I guess that is a skill she needs to learn, not to do that.

parent of BPD d. You got it right about NPD I think, but NPD is different for all isnt it? Ive noticed my dd seems to be NPD more at certain times. She mostly does not seem to think she is better than anyone though. Im wondering if BPD can turn to NPD when they are older. I have a friend who I really think was BPD but now, in her 50s she is definitely NPD. Anyway NPD is also horrible for a parent to have.

I think this BPD thing is always a concern, when dd was under 18 everyone used to tell me it would get harder for me because the services would not want me involved and I cant get her sectioned and nurture her etc etc, I didnt let that  worry me and guess what... .  its much better, Im not responsible for her, if she does not come home all night, well, she is 18 now its her choice, so I find that easy.

Then I used to worry if she gets pregnant I would have to have her child eeeek yuck, Ive had my kids, dont want anymore. Now worry she will have a bad pregnancy, she didnt, then worry when its born she wont cope, now thinking as soon as its crawling she wont cope. I need to wait and see dont I haha.

But I have really noticed more than ever in the last two months since dd has been happier she seems more NPD to me, its so annoying. memememe boring eh. Still, she does have a lot on I guess.

BTW, going off subject as usual, got any good names for me that baby can call me. I dont like Granny, and nanny is my mums name haha dont quite like that either, hate granma too.  

[heronbird]

Jsfriend,

I  just cross posted, I think thats where your dd needs support isnt it, if we see a weakness we can drip feed them like when they were younger. So, for example, Id never even talk about bottle feeding to my dd, we just say breast feeding is good and that she will need lots of support to do that.

I can see the weakness in my dd for example she cant ask for help, shed rather hide things. So I have been telling her that the authorities will leave her alone more if she asks for help, as soon as she hides things they will worry and maybe take the baby. She fears them taking the baby so much.

We looked into what happens if she goes into crisis will they take the baby off of her, she was convinced they would, but I asked and found out they wont, they have realised that its bad for the baby so she would go into a mother and baby mental health ward, my dd was so happy when I told her, said she was even thinking of getting an abortion rather than them taking her baby.

So I have had to say I would never let them take the baby, never. Ill have it. I didnt want to but I would have to. I did warn her if I have to have it she must get sterilised, thats the deal or I wont have it.

Js friend your dd does sound different to mine at the moment, but things could change and gosh shes going to get a shock when its born isnt she.

When is her baby due?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[js friend]

HI Heron  

Yes my dd's NPD seems to make it difficult for her to  ask for help or even accept it. With all the will in the world I cant seem to do right from wrong these days .  


On another note the bottle feeding is a back up measure as dd wants to breast feed.Her own choice. I havent said anything about it.I havent encouraged her (pressure/control) or tried to talk her out of it (pressure/control)

I did both with my kids and I would have to day that in my opinion I think breast feeding can be more tiring of the two as only we can do it cant we. No-one can take over from to do it can they unless we can express enough milk I suppose?   I remember at times being soo tired that I would literally sleep over my baby while they were feesing on my breast.

Either way I support her decision... .  so long as the baby is fed that is the main thing isnt it?

Also  the adoption was something dd came up with... .  it wasnt discussed it was just something she said she had been thinking about and looked into.  I was a bit sad that she still felt that way so far along into her pregnancy, but exb/f seems to be back, and like you have always said Heron, these things soon pass and  now she seems to have changed her mind again so we are all good atm... .  We are all ready for this baby!

Btw she is due next week

[mikmik]

To the Grandmothers and Grandmas to be,

IF, and that is a big IF, your dd's put up the babies for adoption, would you disclose BPD as a possible gentic link?  I wonder if the parents who have adopted would have been in a position to look out for signs and get help sooner for their kids if they knew?  What do you do?

And to Heronbird,

I think the baby should call you Heron!  Let everyone wonder.

mik

[heronbird]

Oh wow, baby next week, exciting eh. Yes Ive had every emotion with dds pregnancy, but she never wanted to give it up for adoption, rather abortion she said, she didint think she could give it up huh :'(

How can we listen to our d/s and not take any notice of them, I really struggle with that. So she once said she wants an abortion, shed been to the doc to tell him, oh my I was devastated because I knew how it would kill her, I mean the guilt she would have.

Well she does not have that option now anyway, at least, but its so hard when she says things for me to remember it will pass, they live in the moment dont they. I hate that, Im the opposite, if I say something I do it.

You know, I went to a friends house yesterday and her dd had just had a baby, it brought it all home to me how hard it all is, the baby so vulnerable, yes we all remember that, demanding etc. But we forget how we were as new parents, we were so vulnerable too, so scared for our little ones, knowing that they completely rely on us. I held this baby and the dad was hovering over me so scared in case I didnt support its head etc, he was so worried and so much love for it. Also so tired and its all learning, gosh I hope my dd knows what shes letting herself in for.

mikmik

What about this one then, if you adopted would it be better not to tell the child its adopted then they wouldnt have BPD. I think a lot of adoptive parents are told why the baby is given up arent they. Funny enough my friends adopted 20 years ago, they knew the baby was given up because the mum was a drug addict, then they adopted the babys brother. They had to give the first one up, he has now been diagnosed with schizophrenia, gosh I spelt that right, wow. They had terrible trouble with him and were devastated when they had to give him up

No Heron is not a good name for me haha, poor baby. I need something sweet haha  what are you trying to do to my granbaby haha Would be so funny mind you

I will treat granchild as if it has BPD anyway so hopefully it will help. is that a good idea? is there a book on that somewhere?

[determined NMS]

wow I have only just started to consider if my dd has a BPD and how this means I can help her and myself and am looking for litrature. But she is pregnant and I have had some very real concerns since I knew she was pregnant. She is only 19 years old, breaks down everything good she has going for helself and has done for so long and nw she is going to be responsible for another person.

Right now she is living with my mother (who probably has/had a PD and has suffered so much but has made life hell for most people who she is in contact with at some point or another - the irony being they both relate to and seem to understand eahc other right now - but for how long?)

I am very afraid for my dd and how she intends to care for a baby, another person. How a child might cope with the rage that is unleashed and when it is uncontrolable. Or if worse case came to be how my dd would go on if she lost her child, would I take it for everyone's sake? Worrying.

I just hope and pray that this may be what helps her grow up. However what I have been reading over the last few days it seems unlikely... .  

[qcarolr]

Heron and J's friend - my DD could not manage breast feeding with either of her kids - too impatient from my perspective and painful and embarrassing to ask for the help that was there for her. I am just guessing at the reasons. I rented her an electric breat pump as she wanted to give breast milk for 1st 6 weeks to give baby the immunity boosting stuff. And supplemented with formula. I have to say that DD overcame a lot of things to do her best to care for her tiny babies - will always wonder if I had known about the BPD and had the tools I do now if things could have been different?  Well, not with the drug using friends (including the dad's) surrounding her.

I is hard to let go of wanting to rescue DD. I did step in a rescue the babies - I am raising gd7 and I told the police to contact social services instead of taking on gs5 as I was maxed out with one gchild.

We each have to look deep inside at our personal resources and support in our family, friends and community to make these really tough decisions. The best is to allow our kids to do the best they can as parents as stay connected as much as possible. These gkids will need us in their lives to balance the unpredictable nature of their parents.

qcr  

[heronbird]

Yes, you say that these gran kids need us for some stability but I wonder if that helps. I have noticed with my niece, my mum has always been there for her, a good stability for her. Still now she is 17 she has got really massive mental health issues. My mum her granma, was not enough.

I dont really think not breast feeding is the worse thing in the world, just like I could cope if she smoked, even drank occasionally. Think we have to remember our priorities.  Still, Im not telling her that , I keep telling her she will need lots of help to breast feed.

I am determined not to step in unless absolutely necessary,  I think the authorities should be helping her anyway, they seem to keep telling me to but out anyway so I will. If she has no nappies and no money, I wont help her, but I may ring her care worker or email them.

determined NMS

You have a nightmare on your hands too. My dd is 19 too and same problems as you really, I think it is important to stay positive, it may work out, many people on this board have helped me to learn to accept and be positive in this situation, its the best way to be, I like being positive in this negative environment that we

are in and I think my dd scenses it and likes that too.

I remember when she first told me that she was pregnant, I straight away thought, oh great! that baby is going to be mine isnt it. Ill give it up, I dont want it, how can she have a baby, she is a baby herself, she cant look aafter herself she keeps trying to hurt herself, she cant ask for help etc etc

I feel positive now, I think its a good thing for her, and even if it isnt, well we will cope. We have gone through harder things than this before, or have we hahaha

[qcarolr]

Heron - you are a great influence for your D. I think our kids need us there as cheerleaders - to remind them that they are capable. That they are able to make good choices. We have to have courage to let the results of bad choices fall on them too so they can learn. Yet, with BPD, that learning process can be... .  what word am I looking for? harder, delayed, not connecting cause with effect in similar situations?

Even though your niece 17 is struggling with mental health issues - how much worse would it be without the love and care of a grandma? I try to remember that there is a big genetic component to mental health issues, including PD's, and our love and care and holding them responsible cannot change their DNA. It CAN give them a stable environment to do the best they can with what they are given though.

We need to freely give ourselves credit for being in our troubled kids lives, and for coming here to learn ways to get better at being their cheerleaders.

Heron - I want to thank you for being here. You have such given so much value here. And you are doing this for so many with your courage to work with the new support group in your area.

qcr  

[js friend]

Oh wow, baby next week, exciting eh.

Heron~I wouldnt use the word exciting, more of trepidation I suppose of what is to come.

Already dd has told a friend who she fell out with over something minor that she wont be able to see the baby when it is born.

I feel  this baby will be used as a pawn to get what she wants and she will cut us out of its life whenever she wants to if we are not meeting her needs.  


qcarol~ how do I/we step in before there is a crisis without my dd seeing it as me trying to take over?

It  hurts to know that dd misinterpretes me showing that I  care as taking over. If I sit back and do nothing she accuses me of not caring andif I anticipate her needs she says that Iam doing too much.Why cant they just ask for help. Do you think that they see that someone caring for them as manipulation, based on how they use it to get there needs met, and that is the reason why they dont trust us to just care because we want to, and not because we expect anything back in return?

Im really confused by this one.


Its so hard to know what to do when I know that she wont ask for help in a calm manner. It always seems to have to get to crisis point with her crying her eyes out, before we know what is going on... .  and then most of what she is only a small percentage of the truth.

determind NMS~ our dd sound very much alike. My dd seems to be filled with anger and rage most days too. Ive asked her what she will do if the baby is crying and she feels angry.because maybe she is feeling tired or he/she has just puked up again... .  Her answer was that it will be ok because  she doesnt get angry! ... .  huh  

What can I say to that when she is so much denial?



Mik ~ If I had a say if the baby was to be adopted then I would disclose dd'd mental illness.

As Heron has said I think it is best to use validation with these babies as soon as possible.  I would also disclose it because there are some good adoptive parents out there who specifically take on children with special needs to give them loving homes with plenty of validation and encouragemnet. Many of the time they know what they are letting themselves in for whereas we did not.

[heronbird]

Oh Js friend Im sorry, didnt realise, yes your story is more typical, your dd acting the way she is is how I thought how my dd would be, she isnt yet, so we have started getting excited now.

You know, I didnt ever want my family to be like this, married and pregnant at age 18 to someone she has only been with for 12 months. You know, I cant believe how I am ok about it. Just shows you. Yet you cant show your true feelings can you.

Now Valerie spoke about this, she said you have to not react, how hard is that to just do. And I am useless because I havent been brought up like that, I say what I think. But Anthony Bateman is going to show us a strategy to use so that you can hide your feelings. Ill let you know when I know.

Jsfriend, I saw a programme about teens getting pregnant, they had emotional issues. One young girl kept saying she really didnt want the baby, she wasnt even going to look at it when its born, she hated it etc etc. The social worker was so worried about her, she cried a lot too. Her feelings were all opposite of a normal maternal mother to be.

When the baby was born, she completely changed, she fell in love with it, she couldnt believe it herself. The authorities were so pleased they monitored her for only a few months closely.

I am trying so hard to back off with my dd, I didnt got to scans or anything, I wont buy her milk if she runs out and has no money, Ill threaten her if she has no milk and no money, she is so scared that they will take the baby so she will do anything. I help my dd the same as I would help any of my children, I treat them the same.

We love our children, its always been our job to nurture them, thats just normal. But its not my baby.

I secretly would love to be there and see him born (its a boy we just found out) Im hoping dd wants me to be there, but I dont want to get in her way, Im not the third person in the marriage, so Ill leave that up to her and him if they want me. Id love to be a midwife. So I was hoping one of my daughters would ask me.

[determined NMS]

My dd has said at the weekend that I won't have anything to do with her baby. I fear that this child will be a pawn to inflict punishment on people. I feel I probably have to protect myself from bonding too closely or I will be hurt... .  

Heron I like what you have to say how you are holding back and not showing emotions/getting over involved. I think I will try this too.

I have only just in the last week considered my dd has BPD so I am optimistic that my using communication methods I can reduce the conflict between us

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[js friend]

My dd has said at the weekend that I won't have anything to do with her baby. I fear that this child will be a pawn to inflict punishment on people. I feel I probably have to protect myself from bonding too closely or I will be hurt... .  

Iam so sorry that you are experiencing this too detireminedNMS.   

Even though my dd hasnt (yet) told me that i wont be alloowed to see her baby i believe that it will only be a matter of time before she does. Iam trying to prepare myself for the worse and iam researching  grandparents rights. I dont want to have fight with her over seeing  her child, but I do want to the right to see this child and ensure that he/her isnt being neglected.

[qcarolr]

We were very involved and tried to support this family in our home - DD, A(dad) and gd. Maybe did not have adequate understanding of boundaries - stepped in too much to take over when they were not available to care for gd. What drove us to petition for custody when gd 15 months (we had tried for guardianship at 7 months but DD contested so lawyer withdrew) was DD's continuous threats to leave with gd and we would never see them again. I knew in my head that she was unable to physically make this happen - at least for very long. I could not tolerate the idea of gd put in this potential neglectful situation. Was bad enough that DD was gone most of the time anyway. (this all came about when A got a one year sentence in county jail so DD became a 'single parent' and dealt with this by going out to do drugs with friends - she abaondoned gd to us). Getting custody was a messy process and pushed me into a medically unhealthy crisis - or really several crises.

Consider all your options. Get the best legal advice for your state and county. Look at your life, how it will change under each option, what you can reasonably do. We are on the brink of retirement - can I handle this beautiful, willful, ADHD gd when she reaches puberty? Dh is 62, I am 57. We have limited family or friend support -- DD is here to give us a break now. We get limited financial and resource support from social services kinship outreach.

I am thinking of not posting this - it is really the darkest side of my story. Gd is a gift to us in so many ways. If I look for the joy in each day, keep my faith that I will get what I need in my life - as I always have, and continue to practice the many skills I have learned -- well I know there will be just as many good days as not so good ones. I will always HOPE.

Hang in there all - whatever level of care you choose to give.

qcr  

[heronbird]

Hey, what can one do if our dds wont let us see their child   nothing.

I have always said dd will do what dd wants to do. And thats true, accept it heronbird then you can start living with it.

About two months ago dd got married and went to a nice seaside place for a honeymoon, when she was there I knew what she would say when she got back. Sure enough I was wright, I was concerned, and upset. She said they would probably be moving down there, it was so nice, houses were cheaper and her dh misses his mum. She said it would be good because when she goes to the shops she wont bump into any horrid people from school.

I was so upset, I realised she may not do it, she often does not, she says a lot but never follows up, still I find that hard to let it go over my head and ignore.

My older non BPDd said, dont worry mum, let them go, at least you will have a break, you wont be able to help them it wont be that bad. That really helped me, I relaxed after that. Dd kept saying that they were moving there, I just gave her my blessing and she isnt going now.

I guess my point is, theres nothing I can do. Funny thing is, she couldnt cope with out all the support we give her, and his mum does not want to know I have been given that impression.