Intention of Text from hwBPD

[Awakecj]

I'm going into month 10 from the serving of the divorce papers to my hwBPD. My last posting, is it worth the fight, references the last response from H and lawyer and my concern over the very low appraisal of our house which impacts my share of the equity of the home. I met with my L and we discussed my options, get a second appraisal or offer to buy him out (this would be challenging for me) but bottom line, L said there was no rush to respond.

Well, the Friday following my meeting with my L, my H attorney sends a follow-up letter stating there was a home recently sold on our street under foreclosure which could bring the value of our home further down. The letter states my H would "honor" the original appraisal and offer provided I respond by January 1 which was a couple of weeks away. My H took 3 months to respond to my L requests but then demanded I respond within 2 weeks, Jan. 1. I spoke with my L and decided to NOT respond at all, frankly, I think if he brought the appraisal down further, it would make it easier for me to qualify to buy him out if I did decide to do that.

I have been trying to maintain NC and have been pretty successful except during Christmas time when we had to coordinate visiting our adult kids and grandchild. Yesterday, on Dec. 31 - one day before HIS deadline to me, my H sent a text. "I understand you want no contact with me... .  I wish that was not the case... .  should you have a change of mind about any and all of this... tell me"

So I'm wondering what the intention of this text is. Is he trying to give me a final chance to take him up on his "honorable" offer or is he worried I have called him on his bluff because I didn't respond? Or, is he just reaching out to talk? I have to admit, I am a bit nervous about not responding to his Jan. 1 deadline date and wonder if I did talk with him would he be more reasonable. He keeps telling people he has no idea what I want because I won't talk with him; therefore, he is not trying to cheat me out of what I deserve just doesn't know what I want. This seems absurd to me as he doesn't get to make the decision what is reasonable as far as settlement, the court does. I'm feeling unsettled.

[Matt]

He may be lonely and hoping to re-engage with you on any level.

He may have something up his sleeve.

He may think it's in his interest to come to a deal soon, and hope you will respond so something can be worked out.

Or he may have some other motivation.

Get him out of your head.  Quit trying to figure out what he's thinking.  Just consult with your lawyer and make the plan you believe is wise for you, and then execute that.

Disengaging emotionally - getting distance - is how we heal.

[ForeverDad]

During my 2 year divorce with an intense custody struggle, I got only silent obstruction from my ex and she faced no consequences from it.  Yes, she didn't come out looking good at the end, but it wasn't due to her silence or even lack of constructive cooperation.

We had to do taxes 3 times during the separation/divorce.  The first time I just went ahead and filed online using the gov't electronic IDs, so I didn't forge her signature as she might have thought.  The next year the rules changed requiring I have paper signatures so I had to get her cooperation for the joint filing tax deductions.  She refused to respond, I filed for the standard 6 month extension, she still refused to respond and finally in October with days left her lawyer made a deal for her to share some of MY refund from MY withholding payments in exchange for her signature.  No one cared about that.  No one.

So if you want to be mostly NC, that's your decision and you shouldn't be criticized for it.  Same for who gets the house or when or whatever.  However, if he's in the house and you're not, I'm not sure how that would affect who gets to keep the house.  Typically the wife gets an extra edge, so his staying in the house might not influence who gets it in the final allocations, deals and court rulings.

A real problem with you getting the house is how to get him out and off the legal paperwork.  Look at coffee shop's current dilemma, her ex never signed the final settlement agreed upon months ago, never refinanced as required, never paid bills as required, etc.  Simply by her exH not doing anything he's caused all sorts of problems and despite that he'll likely face few if any consequences for his actions and inactions.

Reality check:  Do you need 'that' house?  Or will another do just as well?  It might be emotionally cleaner for you to find your own home as a fresh start without the emotional memories, perhaps also a conservatively sized and priced home.

[scraps66]

In your situation it may be financially better to have him buy you out of the house and you go on your merry way, get your own house, and let him stay.  Plus the converse is true, though your home may have low value, house prices are also low.

My situation was the reverse, I got booted, ex stalled the divorce and stayed in the house with me paying the mortgage fro 15 months.  She somehow got funds to buy her own house - but balked at the idea of settling.  The court was also dragging feet, so, my name was one the mortgage and her name was on the deed.  I could not refinance even long after I moved back in and she held out - by doing nothing and the court allowed her to stall - and I went months not knowing when it would end and whether I coudl take advatnage of the historically low interest rates.

Now I am back in this house, house that I bought, for about 1.5 yrs and it is still odd.  She had her way with the neighborhood for 15 mos. and I am sort of a social outcast in the neighborhood after she left.  If I had it to do over, I would have sold the house and started anew. 

What Matt says is correct, these people seem to avoid all consequence all the while doing so much damage by not communicating.  I mean basically by cutting off all communciation when it's convenient.  However, if you ignore a text message about some mundane senseless topic like S5's winter boots, you can be punished for weeks.  (This just happened tome this week.) 

[Awakecj]

Get him out of your head.  Quit trying to figure out what he's thinking.  Just consult with your lawyer and make the plan you believe is wise for you, and then execute that.

Disengaging emotionally - getting distance - is how we heal.

Thank you Matt for being so frank. I think the holidays, even though I managed to avoid seeing H, hit me kind of hard. I started questioning my decisions AGAIN and getting a bit depressed over it all. It is hard to remember how bad it was and how very miserable I was so he is back into my head. I didn't respond to his text and did things for myself today to avoid idle time, hopefully I'll get back on track - thank you for the good advice.

A real problem with you getting the house is how to get him out and off the legal paperwork.  Look at coffee shop's current dilemma, her ex never signed the final settlement agreed upon months ago, never refinanced as required, never paid bills as required, etc.  Simply by her exH not doing anything he's caused all sorts of problems and despite that he'll likely face few if any consequences for his actions and inactions.

Reality check:  Do you need 'that' house?  Or will another do just as well?  It might be emotionally cleaner for you to find your own home as a fresh start without the emotional memories, perhaps also a conservatively sized and priced home.

Thanks ForeverDad, I have read coffee shop's posting and went through something similar in my situation. In July 2011 we re-financed our home to pull out some equity to finish remodeling. The mortgage broker suggested we refinance in my husband's name only because his credit was slightly better and would qualify us for a better interest rate. I was hesitant because I thought that left me vulnerable if anything should happen to our marriage (I guess I instinctually knew) but he assured me my name would be on title. Well fast forward 6 months when my world came crashing down around me when I found postcards from another woman at the same time as I thought I was going to DIE emotionally from my r/s with HWBPD. I started to contemplate needed steps towards a divorce and followed up on the title. Lo and behold my name was not on it. It was an error on the title companies end but nonetheless, I was very vulnerable. This is how I started my divorce and I had to be stealth about how I proceeded so as not to give my H any warning. It was incredibly hard because I had to sit on a couch next to this man who I wanted to attack because of how he treated me while cheating on me and the feelings of betrayal were overwhelming. Honestly, I think I went into shock because I didn't cry for quite some time but was motivated by major anxiety. I got this crappy lawyer who turns out shared some of my strategies with a colleague who turned out to be my husband's attorney (names were not shared)! The whole thing was quite dramatic because I had to blind side my H with divorce papers but I still got booted out of my house because of my first attorney. I don't know how I made it through but at least my L was able to serve him with a document that required him to put me on title so he had no choice but to sign. He actually told me he was planning to sign, how could I think he wouldn't  Later I found evidence that he received the title long before and was well aware I wasn't listed. So I guess it is good to share this because it reminds me of what lengths my H will go to, to try and cheat me out of what the law says is fair. His idea of fair by the way does not align with the law.

I think you are right about the house - I really don't NEED it, I just hate to see him get the better side of the finances after all he put me through

In your situation it may be financially better to have him buy you out of the house and you go on your merry way, get your own house, and let him stay.  Plus the converse is true, though your home may have low value, house prices are also low.

Now I am back in this house, house that I bought, for about 1.5 yrs and it is still odd.  She had her way with the neighborhood for 15 mos. and I am sort of a social outcast in the neighborhood after she left.  If I had it to do over, I would have sold the house and started anew.   

Sorry about your situation scrapps66, although I was booted as well, I have to admit I knew it was in my best interest to be out of the house versus stay because the last time we separated, I stayed and had to pay for everything with my husband coming and going at will. The advantage for me this time is I had control over my finances which I didn't last time and that got me in debt. I moved in with my sister and her husband so hwBPD couldn't just stop by and it has made it easier to disconnect. It was still hard but I can't imagine how I would have done it with him popping in and out all the time.

I know what you mean by going back to the house, my H was a social butterfly to the neighbors, helping them out all the time and then he'd come in the house and verbally abuse me but they didn't know that. The neighbors see him as prince charming and he built up his connections so it would be weird going back to the house. I have just been appalled at the thought of him getting that house for basically nothing and me not having equity to purchase a new home.

[theodore]

I agree with the other posters, get him out of your head and don't try to analyze his intentions.  Follow the legal path to secure what is rightfully yours.

He keeps telling people he has no idea what I want because I won't talk with him; therefore, he is not trying to cheat me out of what I deserve just doesn't know what I want.

If anyone asks me what I want, my answer is: "I want half of everything and I don't care which half I get".

[BentNotBroken]

In your situation it may be financially better to have him buy you out of the house and you go on your merry way, get your own house, and let him stay.  Plus the converse is true, though your home may have low value, house prices are also low.

Now I am back in this house, house that I bought, for about 1.5 yrs and it is still odd.  She had her way with the neighborhood for 15 mos. and I am sort of a social outcast in the neighborhood after she left.  If I had it to do over, I would have sold the house and started anew.  

This is something to give serious consideration to. My BPDexGF basically destroyed the relationships with neighbors I had known for 10 years. She convinced some of them to commit perjury and file false affidavits with the court, knowing that they would get thrown under the bus during a trial, and I would be the bad guy for proving they committed perjury.

I had the opportunity to buy her out of the house, but decided against it because in a matter of a few weeks, people I had known for 10 years refused to even speak to me based on the lies that my ex spread about me. It is very strange, because I was a good neighbor and never failed to help any of them whenever they needed it. No one will even tell me what she has said to them, its just a general hatred of me for things I have allegedly done that never actually happened. I don't think I would ever feel at home again in that neighborhood, and I would not want my son growing up there, either.

I don't think my experience is unique. Just remember that a house is just a house. There is a lot of baggage, good and bad that goes with it being a home. If you want a clean break, let him have it and take the cash.

[Awakecj]

Everyone is so right recommending I get him out of my head. The ability to do that seems to come and go and I don't always know the reason why. Sometimes just the change in weather, seasons, or songs can bring him back in and it is frustrating.

This is something to give serious consideration to.

I don't think my experience is unique. Just remember that a house is just a house. There is a lot of baggage, good and bad that goes with it being a home. If you want a clean break, let him have it and take the cash.

You are absolutely right a house is just a house. I was so driven to have this place where our family would gather and create wonderful memories I overlooked the fact that the house couldn't cure the problems. If the family isn't well, a house sure can't fix it.

[livednlearned]

Everyone is so right recommending I get him out of my head. The ability to do that seems to come and go and I don't always know the reason why. Sometimes just the change in weather, seasons, or songs can bring him back in and it is frustrating.

This is something to give serious consideration to.

I don't think my experience is unique. Just remember that a house is just a house. There is a lot of baggage, good and bad that goes with it being a home. If you want a clean break, let him have it and take the cash.

You are absolutely right a house is just a house. I was so driven to have this place where our family would gather and create wonderful memories I overlooked the fact that the house couldn't cure the problems. If the family isn't well, a house sure can't fix it.

Time will help you get the hang of it, and so will therapy. For me, because there are some elements of PDs that are just extensions of "regular" behavior, I found it easy to get sucked in. When you add that to the legal system, it's sometimes hard to get them out of our heads because we can't believe our BPD person would do xyz in front of a judge, or L, or police officer, or xyz. Sometimes I read things from my ex (divorced 2 years, 3 months) and still have to go through a 3-step process to take his reasonable-sounding crazy logic, make sense of it in terms of BPD, and then decide whether it's something I need to deal with or not, usually by contacting my L. More often than not, it doesn't require an L, although the year after I divorced him, I thought everything required my L's intervention. Ka-ching for the L!

I hope you find peace about the house no matter what you decide to do. I left my home behind and couldn't be happier. It was hard at first, especially since I had renovated it and poured sweat equity into it to make it the home I wanted. But the symbolism of leaving it behind and starting fresh in a new place has ended up being one of the best decisions I made.

[Awakecj]

livednlearned,

I'm better off this January than I was last January that's for sure and I have been going to therapy usually once a week for some time now. Thank god for therapy and my therapist! While reading your response I was amazed at your comments that identify some of my own thought processes. The "extensions of regular behavior" and the "3-step process to take his reasonable-sounding crazy logic, make sense of it... .  " comments are things I struggle with daily. I'm still in the space where I occasionally wonder if H really has BPD. I have to think about everything that he has done and decide if it is normal, am I crazy or what. I think I still am trying to rationalize his behavior for some reason. I really have no intention of going back with him but still defend him. Maybe it is to validate that we had a real life, he was a real person, otherwise I couldn't handle the whole idea, not sure.

I understand needing to call the L as well. If there is one thing I do feel by having a lawyer is I'm legally protected and I look to him to interpret what are normal responses from H. As far as the house goes, I too designed the renovation and that is hard to leave behind but I'm finding myself accepting that I may lose out financially with the divorce. I'm not happy with it, just starting to accept that some things are out of my control. I'll use my lawyer to help protect me as much as possible but that's about all I can do without a costly war.

Thanks for your post

[theodore]

I'm still in the space where I occasionally wonder if H really has BPD. I have to think about everything that he has done and decide if it is normal, am I crazy or what.

My solution to this is journaling. I journal every day.  I seldom write my feelings, I always write about the facts.  My feelings will often waver, but the facts never change.  The facts show she was and is crazy.  I don't have to think about that or rethink it.

[livednlearned]

livednlearned,

I'm better off this January than I was last January that's for sure and I have been going to therapy usually once a week for some time now. Thank god for therapy and my therapist! While reading your response I was amazed at your comments that identify some of my own thought processes. The "extensions of regular behavior" and the "3-step process to take his reasonable-sounding crazy logic, make sense of it... .  " comments are things I struggle with daily. I'm still in the space where I occasionally wonder if H really has BPD. I have to think about everything that he has done and decide if it is normal, am I crazy or what. I think I still am trying to rationalize his behavior for some reason. I really have no intention of going back with him but still defend him. Maybe it is to validate that we had a real life, he was a real person, otherwise I couldn't handle the whole idea, not sure.

I understand needing to call the L as well. If there is one thing I do feel by having a lawyer is I'm legally protected and I look to him to interpret what are normal responses from H. As far as the house goes, I too designed the renovation and that is hard to leave behind but I'm finding myself accepting that I may lose out financially with the divorce. I'm not happy with it, just starting to accept that some things are out of my control. I'll use my lawyer to help protect me as much as possible but that's about all I can do without a costly war.

Thanks for your post

Personality disordered behavior is stealthy! It can really mess with your head. The more I learn about codependency, too, the more I realize how susceptible I was to letting PD behavior lure me in and make me feel crazy. Nons don't tend to be people who learned healthy emotional behavior in our families of origin, although we somehow end up being willing and able to learn (the upside of all this drama, imo), and in my experience, that allowed me to have one foot in the crazy and one foot out. I am bilingual with crazy  

I work closely with my L, and a Parenting Coordinator, and they see the crazy like it's wearing giant clown shoes and big red squeaky nose. It took me two years and a LOT of therapy to see the disordered behavior clearly, although I still seem to take a quick detour through doubt, guilt, regret, and fear before I can see things for what they are.

Being better off now than last year -- that's a great sign and something worth celebrating.  

[ForeverDad]

I'm still in the space where I occasionally wonder if H really has BPD. I have to think about everything that he has done and decide if it is normal, am I crazy or what. I think I still am trying to rationalize his behavior for some reason. I really have no intention of going back with him but still defend him. Maybe it is to validate that we had a real life, he was a real person, otherwise I couldn't handle the whole idea, not sure.

Family courts in most cases don't care if a person has BPD, NPD, HPD, APD or whatever.  They stick with the behaviors.  If ex has never been diagnosed, you do the same.  Try to ignore the words and just pay attention to the actions.

Once you make a decision, don't go back and question it or undo it over and over.  That's a recipe for continuing distress and failing to give yourself closure.  (You won't find closure with ex, closure is up to you, for yourself.)

Accept that it failed.

Let Go and Move On.

[Matt]

You don't know for sure what the name of the problem is, but you know how he behaves.  These behavior patterns don't change without help, and he isn't getting help.  (And if you suggest it then it's even less likely.)

As others are saying, you have to accept that his behavior is what it is, and deal with it as it is.

Of the thousands of stories I've read here - most of which do not involve a diagnosis - there is not one member who has described these dysfunctional patterns of behavior, and then said that the person showing those behaviors changed without professional help.  "He realized his behavior was causing problems, so he stopped doing that, and now things are fine."  Not one.

(On the other hand, when someone gets professional help, and stays with it for a few years, the changes are very good.)

[Awakecj]

My solution to this is journaling. I journal every day.  I seldom write my feelings, I always write about the facts.  My feelings will often waver, but the facts never change.  The facts show she was and is crazy.  I don't have to think about that or rethink it.

I've been told for so many years to journal and have always wanted to get into that habit but for some reason didn't. What I have done that I'm thankful for, is take notes at all my T sessions and I have filled multiple small notebooks with that info. For some reason I forget how bad it really was for me with H but having the notebooks to refer has helped me remember and not think or rethink about it. I really like the suggestion of just journaling facts, it might make it easier for me to follow through on. Thanks theodore

[Awakecj]

Personality disordered behavior is stealthy! It can really mess with your head. The more I learn about codependency, too, the more I realize how susceptible I was to letting PD behavior lure me in and make me feel crazy. Nons don't tend to be people who learned healthy emotional behavior in our families of origin, although we somehow end up being willing and able to learn (the upside of all this drama, imo), and in my experience, that allowed me to have one foot in the crazy and one foot out. I am bilingual with crazy 

I work closely with my L, and a Parenting Coordinator, and they see the crazy like it's wearing giant clown shoes and big red squeaky nose. It took me two years and a LOT of therapy to see the disordered behavior clearly, although I still seem to take a quick detour through doubt, guilt, regret, and fear before I can see things for what they are.

Being better off now than last year -- that's a great sign and something worth celebrating. 

Yep, my family of origin was dysfunctional and I am on a quest to becoming emotionally educated Lol to being bilingually crazy, I can't say I had one foot out (at least a healthy foot) until I started to address my codependency issues. And when I did finally eek my foot out a bit, the H would reel me back in with the craziness. What a process getting to the point where I could put one foot out and follow with the other! It is so interesting to hear that others can see the crazy so well, actually it is shocking to me that I couldn't and a lot of the times now, still don't. Sigh, still a lot of work to do on myself but I guess I can celebrate being better off this year because last year at this time was he!

Thanks again livednlearned for pointing out how stealth PD is, really helps me be easier on myself.

[Awakecj]

Family courts in most cases don't care if a person has BPD, NPD, HPD, APD or whatever.  They stick with the behaviors.  If ex has never been diagnosed, you do the same.  Try to ignore the words and just pay attention to the actions.

Once you make a decision, don't go back and question it or undo it over and over.  That's a recipe for continuing distress and failing to give yourself closure.  (You won't find closure with ex, closure is up to you, for yourself.)

Accept that it failed.

Let Go and Move On.

Yes, it is the actions isn't it? The words have always been the hook that drew me in but the actions continually failed to support the words.

A recent example, H sent me another text asking if I want to share the cost of adult daughter's medical and car insurance. Initially I thought I "should" respond but gave myself time to give it more thought. Here he is trying to nickel and dime me out of my fair share of the equity of our house (that he kicked me out of) - action, action, and I think he "deserves" a response to his text - words. It is such a process for me to pull those two things apart, examine, and come to the conclusion that I can just ignore the text and go straight to my daughter to discuss. I still get stuck in the "shoulds" from HIS perspective.

Ok, I made the decision to not respond and I'll try to not keep questioning myself about it but it doesn't come naturally to me. I tend to try and get other people's opinions that agree with me before I can put it to rest. Tough to break that habit but I'll work on it.

Closure, I would like that but don't know what that might look like. Will it mean I won't keep thinking about how he betrayed me and treated me so badly? Because sometimes I feel like I'm getting closer to really detaching, letting go, and moving on and then my head jerks back into thinking about all those hurtful things. So I guess I'm still struggling with just accepting that it failed, regardless of what was done. I still want to place blame and maybe that's what is holding me back.

Thank you Forever Dad for pointing out bottom lines because by hearing them I become more aware and with every new awareness, I can move a step closer  to closure.

[Awakecj]

You don't know for sure what the name of the problem is, but you know how he behaves.  These behavior patterns don't change without help, and he isn't getting help.  (And if you suggest it then it's even less likely.)

As others are saying, you have to accept that his behavior is what it is, and deal with it as it is.

Of the thousands of stories I've read here - most of which do not involve a diagnosis - there is not one member who has described these dysfunctional patterns of behavior, and then said that the person showing those behaviors changed without professional help.  "He realized his behavior was causing problems, so he stopped doing that, and now things are fine."  Not one.

(On the other hand, when someone gets professional help, and stays with it for a few years, the changes are very good.)

I don't know for sure if he has BPD and most likely never will I guess but it has been helpful for me to think that his behavior has been the result of a PD. Otherwise, coping with what he did to me would have been so much harder, harder to accept coming from a "normal" person. It just seems more insulting. I used to blame his behavior on the alcoholism but in reality it was his behavior towards me that made me miserable - more than miserable and I don't want to be that anymore.

You know even when he agreed to stop drinking, he agreed to go to AA, etc., he couldn't maintain the program for long. He did stop drinking (I think) and was quite proud of that but the behavior remained the same. I don't think he was/is willing to face the hard stuff required to really work the program or go to T on a consistent basis. He realized way back that his behavior was causing problems, actually I have letters from more than 20 years ago where he admits that but even when he admitted, you're right, things did not suddenly become fine. So maybe it's time for me to stop questioning whether he has BPD just accept that his behavior, regardless of the title, wasn't good for me. I often want to prove myself right but that's not going to get me anywhere.

Thanks Matt

[Matt]

Closure, I would like that but don't know what that might look like. Will it mean I won't keep thinking about how he betrayed me and treated me so badly? Because sometimes I feel like I'm getting closer to really detaching, letting go, and moving on and then my head jerks back into thinking about all those hurtful things. So I guess I'm still struggling with just accepting that it failed, regardless of what was done. I still want to place blame and maybe that's what is holding me back.

Thank you Forever Dad for pointing out bottom lines because by hearing them I become more aware and with every new awareness, I can move a step closer  to closure.

The "C" word is the cause of many bad decisions among us here.

There is no closure.  You accept reality and move forward.

Seeking "closure" is a pretty sure-fire way to make mistakes you'll pay for.

[Awakecj]

The "C" word is the cause of many bad decisions among us here.

There is no closure.  You accept reality and move forward.

Seeking "closure" is a pretty sure-fire way to make mistakes you'll pay for.

I don't know what is meant by closure really but I do get that there are things I would do seeking validation, so is that closure? Like convince him he was wrong, that his thinking is crazy, know for sure that he is taking full responsibility for his actions (not just words) and tell others the "truth" about who he really is, etc. If that's it, I think I'm coming to understand I will never get the "C" word and I have to be at peace with that.

[Matt]

The "C" word is the cause of many bad decisions among us here.

There is no closure.  You accept reality and move forward.

Seeking "closure" is a pretty sure-fire way to make mistakes you'll pay for.

I don't know what is meant by closure really but I do get that there are things I would do seeking validation, so is that closure? Like convince him he was wrong, that his thinking is crazy, know for sure that he is taking full responsibility for his actions (not just words) and tell others the "truth" about who he really is, etc. If that's it, I think I'm coming to understand I will never get the "C" word and I have to be at peace with that.

You got it.

We have these fantasies that the other party is going to be "fixed", or that he will see things like we do, or that everybody else will see what's really going on, etc.  It ain't going to happen, and keeping our focus on "closure" keeps us from dealing with what's real, and the choices we really have.

[ForeverDad]

If ex didn't accept responsibility for his actions while you were together and you couldn't reason with him either, it would be illogical to think he would listen to you now or accept responsibility now.  If that were possible, then the relationship wouldn't have failed.  But it did fail.  It was a dysfunctional and unhealthy relationship in whatever ways.

So you simply would be inviting more pain (or even trouble) by trying to get something not you couldn't get before.  Some have composed letters.  But knowing the folly (and even risk) of sending them to the ex, burned them or did whatever.  It is symbolic for us to do things like that.

When I mention risk, it's to remind you not to write "I'm Sorry" or "I did some things wrong" since some did that and then had restraining orders or charges filed against them alleging they had abused the ex.  That's why we say never send anything to ex (other than basic child exchange or necessary child related information) without making very sure nothing in the contents can bite us back.  Remember, us Good Guys and Good Gals, nice as we are, can innocently write things with good intentions that can get us into legal trouble.  Be aware.  Beware.

[Awakecj]

You got it.

We have these fantasies that the other party is going to be "fixed", or that he will see things like we do, or that everybody else will see what's really going on, etc.  It ain't going to happen, and keeping our focus on "closure" keeps us from dealing with what's real, and the choices we really have.

Fixed, I don't think I expect that anymore but hope that he sees things like I do, yes I'm kind of stuck on that. As horrible as the r/s was and how he treated me, I keep coming back to the pain of him cheating on me and I'd like him to be totally honest with me about it. That is where my fantasies are hung up. Maybe because it's the new awareness of how deceiving he is that I haven't or can't desensitize like I did with the emotional abuse that went on for years.

If I could only turn off thinking about the cheating - now that would be closure for me. I'm struggling with it today.

[Awakecj]

If ex didn't accept responsibility for his actions while you were together and you couldn't reason with him either, it would be illogical to think he would listen to you now or accept responsibility now.  If that were possible, then the relationship wouldn't have failed.  But it did fail.  It was a dysfunctional and unhealthy relationship in whatever ways.

So you simply would be inviting more pain (or even trouble) by trying to get something not you couldn't get before.  Some have composed letters.  But knowing the folly (and even risk) of sending them to the ex, burned them or did whatever.  It is symbolic for us to do things like that.

When I mention risk, it's to remind you not to write "I'm Sorry" or "I did some things wrong" since some did that and then had restraining orders or charges filed against them alleging they had abused the ex.  That's why we say never send anything to ex (other than basic child exchange or necessary child related information) without making very sure nothing in the contents can bite us back.  Remember, us Good Guys and Good Gals, nice as we are, can innocently write things with good intentions that can get us into legal trouble.  Be aware.  Beware.

Thank you for the suggestion of composing a letter and burning it. At the beginning of the split when I was overwhelmed, I did write letters to H but kept them as a reminder of the pain he put me through. I'd like to think someday I can burn them as a final gesture of freeing myself from this man. The past couple of days I've been thinking about the cheating a lot and wishing for more information from him to validate my suspicions but you're right, I'm creating more pain for myself as a result. And it IS illogical to think after 30+ years he would listen to me and accept responsibility but the hope keeps creeping in. I think his text and recent text are behind my regenerated illogical thinking.

I'll be aware and beware for sure because I wasn't at the start and it did come back to bite me!

[ForeverDad]

And you may never confirm whether he had affairs or not, or how many.  Why should he give you the satisfaction?  From others I know my ex has had multiple relationships post-separation, yet she's never mentioned them.  No, I haven't even asked her and if I did I'd expect a denial.  It's awfully hard to admit something so culturally ingrained in us to keep super private.

I can think of one reason he might admit it, to hurt you, make you feel bad, as though you made him do it.  Remember the need for blame-shifting.  Especially if he wants to claim he "rejected" you before you "rejected" him.

And would knowing make that much a difference?  He lost your trust.

Let Go.  It's hurting you more than helping you.

[Awakecj]

I think that I want to know because I'm hoping H wasn't as bad as I suspect but intuitively I'm pretty sure he was. That is what is SO painful.

He did lose my trust completely, there's no turning back but it's hard to let go of craving the truth. I'll work on letting go.

[BentNotBroken]

Some of the stuff you just have to write off as a loss. My BPD ex has cost me 15+ years of my life, the 1st 2 years of my son's life, hundreds of thousands of dollars (and I am not a rich man), my good name, and almost pushed me over the edge into suicide.

BPD is a very serious mental illness. It did not get its name because it was merely a problem with "unstable emotions." It is an all pervasive mental illness that can have severe and sometimes fatal consequences for the sufferer and those in close proximity. Be glad you can see the truth, even if you don't know all the particulars of your spouses infidelities.

I had to learn the hard way that everything out of my BPDexgf's mouth after she painted me black was either a lie or a manipulation. Even when it is regarding our son, I keep that idea in the background so I don't give her more information than absolutely necessary about out son. Even basic common decency is twisted around and thrown back in my face on a regular basis. You can hope your stbx will behave better, but I wouldn't count on it.

I don't hate people with BPD, but I am going to make sure I give them a wide berth for my family's sake.