How to convince BPD hubby legal battle with psych evals unneccessary

[hurtinglove]

I am 100% sure my husband (currently waiting for temp hearing for contested divorce) is a BPD but he think i am citing i rage frequently for nothing. i do not want conflicts and am willing to give 50% of custody to him (although i do not want his influence on kids) but i will never give up physical custody. he demands psych evaluations on me and if he insists then i have to demand the same thing. I am sure it will pick up something on his side but i do not spend months and years trapped in this legal battle and 50 grands (my lawyer told me if we go to that route) on such things. Is there anyway to persuade him we employ a peaceful resolution without a lengthy and costly legal battle?

[Exonerated]

Not a worry. I had called one of the foremost psychiatrists in the country and had a chat. He suggested that I do the following.

In the presence of the divorce court judge, I offered to go with my ex-wife and both of us get an evaluation. I explained that should answer any questions about parenting. She immediately refused so adamantly the judge asked why the sudden refusal.

Soon, I had physical custody. You see, BPDs don't handle that sort of thing well. It became obvious she had some very serious problems. I hope all works out well for you.

cheers,

[ForeverDad]

Sadly, you were in too close a relationship for him to 'listen' to you.  He can't see past the perceptions of emotional baggage.  Exonerated had a nice suggestion, let the court do what it will, let court or the lawyers be the 'bad guys' as much as you can, just put forth your case as best you can.

You mentioned 50% custody (for major decisions, not parenting time).  Let me expound on this.  I agree that many courts like that, they don't want either parent to feel like they 'lost'.  I'd recommend you and your lawyer seek a little extra.  You can clearly expect conflict, so what will happen if/when that happens?  Got back to court?  That's expensive.  Try to get a resolution process specified by the court, perhaps mediation or a parenting coordinator, as applicable.  (Some things, such as not following the order, may not qualify for mediation, etc.)  However, best is if you can get some sort of 'tie-breaker' status.  That is, if you two can't agree, then you can go ahead and just follow up with the details and/or results.  If is far simpler and cheaper that way.  Yes, if he's really stubborn, he can try to take it to court but odds are the court would say you weren't irresponsible or abusive/neglectful in your decisions.  In effect, it sounds equal since 50% is specified, exH saves face since he has 50/50, but you end up getting to make the major decisions.

[hurtinglove]

i agree. BPDs are known to create problems just to torture ex. i will seek more than 50% for decisions, at least a tie breaker. i am wondering how much it costs to do the court appointed psych evaluations and court cost, legal fees etc for both parties. any idea?

[Matt]

You should probably have the psych evals done.

I filed a motion to have a Custody Evaluator appointed - a Ph.D. psychologist who administered the MMPI-2 to both of us.  The MMPI-2 is an objective test - not just talking to the psychologist which doesn't always uncover all the problems.  The test showed my wife has "multiple psychological disorders".  The psychologist recommended she get psychotherapy, which was written into the judge's order.

That's probably the best way to get things to be more objective - not just he-said/she-said.  If it shows BPD or something similar, you could then say, "90/10 for now but he can get therapy and then it can be more balanced."  He probably won't get the therapy - my wife never did even though she was ordered to by the judge - so you'll stay at 90/10.

Our Custody Evaluation cost $5,000, plus $500 for each test.  The testing can be done in a couple hours, and then takes a couple weeks to get the results.  The whole custody evaluation took about six or eight weeks.

[Exonerated]

If you can get them, the psych evaluations are valuable. There is one caveat. In some states (Michigan for example) if your spouse has been diagnosed with mental-illness, you could be stuck with lifetime care expenses.

I'm told they do this to keep mentally-ill people off the state's budget, so pin their costs to the spouse for a lifetime.

I moved to Texas which does only orders for lifetime-support if there is a disabled child.

This explains my username EXONERATED. I was ordered lifetime alimony, lifetime healthcare, and lots of other monthly expenses. My divorce in Texas EXONERATED me from all obligations to ex-wife.

Ethically, I had a major problem with paying ex-wife anything at all. Her conduct during the marriage was severely abusive, both to me, and to some of our children. She got a concealed weapons permit, threatened to kill me, and began actively hunting me. I had to stay hidden, keep my address a secret etc... .  It could be compared to paying a robber, rapist, murderer for the rest of your life, because you didn't agree with robbing, raping, and murder.

Cheers

[ForeverDad]

It's also important to determine what a "psych eval" mean in your state or court.  In most places it just means the tests.  In a few places it is equivalent language to a custody evaluation.

While a "custody evalution" may or may not automatically include the psych eval testing, it's important to make sure the comparatively inexpensive testing such as MMPI-2 is included and not just assumed.

Often when a relationship is ending, horrendous allegations are made by the disordered person, typically they have no compunction against lying since it matches their perceptions, sense of entitlement, need to control/punish or postures that you're the problem person.  So the court may want you to undergo a psych eval, which on the surface seems appropriate.  However, it is very important that you try your best to get the court to order both of you to be tested, if you voluntarily undergo testing and then later want the ex tested, court may not see a need at that later time.  So you may end up showing you don't have major issues, but there's nothing documented about the ex and no one but you is inclined to find out.  So if you have to get tested, make sure both of you get tested!

[Matt]

It's also important to determine what a "psych eval" mean in your state or court.  In most places it just means the tests.  In a few places it is equivalent language to a custody evaluation.

While a "custody evalution" may or may not automatically include the psych eval testing, it's important to make sure the comparatively inexpensive testing such as MMPI-2 is included and not just assumed.

Often when a relationship is ending, horrendous allegations are made by the disordered person, typically they have no compunction against lying since it matches their perceptions, sense of entitlement, need to control/punish or postures that you're the problem person.  So the court may want you to undergo a psych eval, which on the surface seems appropriate.  However, it is very important that you try your best to get the court to order both of you to be tested, if you voluntarily undergo testing and then later want the ex tested, court may not see a need at that later time.  So you may end up showing you don't have major issues, but there's nothing documented about the ex and no one but you is inclined to find out.  So if you have to get tested, make sure both of you get tested!

Yes, I think this is very important - objective testing like the MMPI-2, and if you both get tested that's OK.  I did it and it didn't hurt!

[livednlearned]

I am 100% sure my husband (currently waiting for temp hearing for contested divorce) is a BPD but he think i am citing i rage frequently for nothing. i do not want conflicts and am willing to give 50% of custody to him (although i do not want his influence on kids) but i will never give up physical custody. he demands psych evaluations on me and if he insists then i have to demand the same thing. I am sure it will pick up something on his side but i do not spend months and years trapped in this legal battle and 50 grands (my lawyer told me if we go to that route) on such things. Is there anyway to persuade him we employ a peaceful resolution without a lengthy and costly legal battle?

In my state, there is physical custody, legal custody, and then visitation. For example, I am the primary physical parent (custodial parent). I share joint legal custody with N/BPDx. Initially, visitation was every other weekend plus one overnight with N/BPDx. When we drafted the custody agreement, I would not agree to joint legal, so we now have a Parenting Coordinator who is making decisions when we cannot agree, and who is also making a recommendation about visitation, and ordered a psych eval for N/BPDx because he had some kind of manic episode last summer.

Just mentioning this because I was overwhelmed at first when meeting with Ls. I kept asking about sole or full custody, and it took me a while to figure out how in some states, including mine, you don't actually "win" at this. You just chip away at a lot of small things until you have majority time and decision-making so your child can grow up healthy.

And you read Divorce Poison cover to cover so your child doesn't get alienated from you.

No one wins here. We just fight for some sense of normalcy for our kids.

I'm getting close to $50K in my case. We're 2 years and 3 months into it now. If you figure out how to peacefully end conflict with someone with BPD, please write a book and send us all copies.