Pregnant dd wants... mommy

[frustratedmom]

My dd19 finally emailed the other day... .  after days of no contact, and her phone is shut off.

"I called the bank and they said they have no record of my account! I am Soo pissed off at you for taking MY money! I EARNED it! I need it for baby stuff, and you STOLE it from me! It is a felony to steal it, and I'm going to take you to court."

Ummm... .  different bank, money still there, meant for whe you graduate from high school or get your GED... .  and, it's actually money we made you save,  from allowances over many years.

Would you like to talk about the hundreds of dollars you stole from your brother?

No... .  I didn't say any of that to her.

I said: The money is still available. When you would like to talk calmly about it, I would be happy to talk to you.

More ranting... .  I'm terrible, I'm disgusting, I'm heartless... .  real mothers show they care... .  

So I did not respond. She called my dh and ranted at him, at work. He always picks up the phone. He told her it was at another bank, and it was for school. She hung up on him.

That was two days ago. Today I emailed her and said:

"You were really angy. I remember that when you get scared, you can get angry. Are you scared about having the baby?"

She responded half a day later, and said yes. She is frightened and totally stressed out researching all of the things babies might need when they are born and she only has a few things and she needs so much stuff and she will try to help her daughter when she has children and that's the way mothers are supposed to be with their children. And what was it like when I was a new mother?

She wants her mommy.

So I reassured her that babies don't need that much "stuff" and we hardly had anything when she was born... .  and she was in a bassinet until she was 8 weeks old because she was so tiny.

I also said that we would be happy to go shopping for specific items with her so we could experience that fun together... .  but the truth is that I don't want anything to do with it or her bf or her place, so what do I do?

No response. Maybe she just wants to know that she doesn't need a stroller yet .

She thinks this might be the only baby she ever has. That would probably be a good thing, but I don't know why she thinks that... .  other than the docs might have told her it is too hard on her joint condition... .  

I feel a little like I'm reassuring a terminally ill person that everything is going to be alright, or proposing putting bandaids on a shark bite... .  it feels so strange, but if these are her last days at least she can focus on stuff that doesn't matter, instead of the reality of where this child is going to live.

FM

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[griz]

FM:

Having a baby must be so scary for her and like my DD when she is scared she often will lash out at me.  It is like she doesn't know how to express her emotions.  Instead of calling you and saying I'm scared because I am going to be a new mom and there is no manual for this and I don't know what to do she lashed out.  I think you handled it wonderfully. 

Griz

[frustratedmom]

Griz -

That's it isn't it - they can never verbally express their feelings because somehow saying things directly somehow invalidates their emotions? So we have to figure out, through the cloud of toxicity, what the emotion is and validate it for them.

What is she going to do when she feels emotional towards the baby because it is crying and clearly not happy? She is thinking if she just has all the right "stuff", it will be a breeze. It's almost like when she was in school, if she had the right pencils and notebooks and clothes, she would get A's. When she actually had to work, had expectations of her, and the worst of all felt criticized... .  she fell apart.

She always liked the special times, going out to eat, holidays, vacations... .  and she wants me to join in this pre baby special time with her... .  I feel so... .  dishonest? Disingenuine? It's like going on an expensive vacation when your house is in foreclosure, or crossing the podium to graduate when you know you haven't earned the credits... .  

And when I don't do what she wants? Nasty nasty. Isn't that blackmail ? A precursor of what will happen when this child actually gets here?

So what validation gets me is... .  manipulation. A move forward on her dysfunctional terms only card, because she is pregnant, and it is all about her.

Hmmm.

FM

[Thursday]

I feel so... .  dishonest? Disingenuine? It's like going on an expensive vacation when your house is in foreclosure, or crossing the podium to graduate when you know you haven't earned the credits

fm,

I understand and struggle with being the cheerleader for the same reasons. The insincerity truthfully erodes any chance of a more meaningful exchange, doesn't it? I don't like this at all, on the deepest level and it goes against my nature.

I hate that her father feels this way too. He is so conflicted.

Barfy feelings.

Thursday

[qcarolr]

fm - I think you gave a great response to your D -  Today I emailed her and said:

"You were really angy. I remember that when you get scared, you can get angry. Are you scared about having the baby?"

And she played the "and this is how a mom is supposed to act... .  " buried in her response. That one always raises my hackles, puts my mind in defenseive mode -- and I hope I can take some time to not respond in my own defense because my D would not be able to hear it anyway. Maybe it is a good thing there is a long delay between your messages with each other.

It so hard sometimes to seperate out my own feelings and resentments and values before I am able to be validating with my DD26 - and accept/let go of her whacky choices and actions at the same time. ie. not allow myself to get sucked into taking actions I believe I don't want to take. Whew, is this a big circle of thinking?

I also understand the mixed up feelings from when my DD was having a second child that dh and I had been clear we would not get too involved with. We did do some things for them - well lots of things. But when it came down to rescuing them from the child being placed in foster care, and ultimately adopted by foster parents -- we stayed out of the way. Yet, I was able to be there in a validating way for DD when she asked me - even though I did not know this was what I was doing at the time. I gets all so mixed up.

Give yourself a pat on the back for the things that come out well - be kind to yourself about those things that feel yucky.

qcr  

[frustratedmom]

Thanks qcarolr -

I really have to bite my tongue... .  and for someone who grew up with three older brothers who always tested my gullibility, it's a tall order for someone who hates being "had".

So when she started asking for her savings for baby stuff... .  even tho I validated her planning efforts, I smelled a rat. Or rather, PJBF. Why now?

Well after my dh went to see her today, we knew... .  their Internet, TV and phone cable is about to be shut off for non payment for the last six months. Couch potato video god weed farmer bf is going to have his toys taken away.

But dh thought he had a pretty good visit with dd, said she seemed coherent and didn't smell like weed, and was interested in renewing a relationship with us that does not include bf. Dh told her he would be happy to take her shopping with her food stamps and WIC a couple times a month, so she doesn't always eat burritos from 7-11 at three times the cost. She liked the idea... .  then she mentioned that they have 800 watts for their grow lights.

WHAT? no wonder the electric co is banging on your door !

He left her off feeling pretty good, then got a phone call from the bf shouting at him for not giving her the money... .  "I'm sick and tired of paying for everything around here (!) and as a "caregiver"  I don't have to buy any supplies, just use ones that are available to me... .  bla bla bla"

Match made in heaven... .  no?

Anyway, now the landlord has also found out about the savings account, which is custodial, but they are now accusing her of fraud, and she is now freaking out because they are threatening eviction... .  so she thinks she will give notice.

What?

Fun fun fun!

FM

[GreenMango]

Hi Frustratedmom,

I was posting this as you were posting.

My experience with someone with BPD is it can feel very much like a no-win situation when we aren't doing so great ourselves.  And when an emotional crises pop up a lot of "other" issues can get pulled into making the interaction more complicated.  Unfortunately like you said the nature of the disorder is a low threshold for stress and emotions and poor coping skills.  It's can be really hard on those closest.

My dd19 finally emailed the other day... .  after days of no contact, and her phone is shut off.

"I called the bank and they said they have no record of my account! I am Soo pissed off at you for taking MY money! I EARNED it! I need it for baby stuff, and you STOLE it from me! It is a felony to steal it, and I'm going to take you to court."

Ummm... .  different bank, money still there, meant for whe you graduate from high school or get your GED... .  and, it's actually money we made you save,  from allowances over many years.

Would you like to talk about the hundreds of dollars you stole from your brother?

No... .  I didn't say any of that to her.

I said: The money is still available. When you would like to talk calmly about it, I would be happy to talk to you.

More ranting... .  I'm terrible, I'm disgusting, I'm heartless... .  real mothers show they care... .  

So I did not respond. She called my dh and ranted at him, at work. He always picks up the phone. He told her it was at another bank, and it was for school. She hung up on him.

It can be hard to depersonalize a lot of this stuff.  But you pegged the "real" issue here.  She's scared and seems to be unprepared for not only the logistics of having a baby but the emotional stressors too.  Separating the chaff from the grain is important when dealing with a person that will dredge up resolved/closed issues if and when they are having a hard time emotionally.  Being nervous about this impending responsibility is fairly common with many new parents.  But she also has an emotional disorder that makes this even more distressing.

Not adding fuel to this argument was a good way to handle it.  And practicing the boundaries/values in a firm but kind way.  It looks like this was an extinction burst from her.

That was two days ago. Today I emailed her and said:

"You were really angy. I remember that when you get scared, you can get angry. Are you scared about having the baby?"

She responded half a day later, and said yes. She is frightened and totally stressed out researching all of the things babies might need when they are born and she only has a few things and she needs so much stuff and she will try to help her daughter when she has children and that's the way mothers are supposed to be with their children. And what was it like when I was a new mother?

She wants her mommy.

So I reassured her that babies don't need that much "stuff" and we hardly had anything when she was born... .  and she was in a bassinet until she was 8 weeks old because she was so tiny.

I also said that we would be happy to go shopping for specific items with her so we could experience that fun together.

This is a very honest moment.  You were able to validate her by just by asking if she was scared.  It looks like validation worked well.  

And she opened up and asked you how about your experiences.  This conversation sounds like a good mother/daughter talk.  

Your baby is having a baby and she needed some motherly advice and reassurance.  

... .  but the truth is that I don't want anything to do with it or her bf or her place, so what do I do?

This is a tough spot.  Betraying our own feelings creates resentment and causes us to do contradictory things that eventually spill out into our interactions with people.  Like qcarolr mentioned resentment can start things off on the wrong foot, yet if you read around the boards a bit you may notice that resentment among parents, partners, adult children is not uncommon. I felt resentful and it can really undermine golden opportunities moving forward in a productive and honest way.   Part of maintaining a relationship with a high conflict person is learning some new tools, and the other part seems to be how we deal with our own feelings.  

It takes stamina, and getting ourselves into a better spot emotionally, which can be difficult.  :)o you have some support in that area?

No response. Maybe she just wants to know that she doesn't need a stroller yet .

She thinks this might be the only baby she ever has. That would probably be a good thing, but I don't know why she thinks that... .  other than the docs might have told her it is too hard on her joint condition... .  

I feel a little like I'm reassuring a terminally ill person that everything is going to be alright, or proposing putting bandaids on a shark bite... .  it feels so strange, but if these are her last days at least she can focus on stuff that doesn't matter, instead of the reality of where this child is going to live.

Sounds like she wants to be heard that this is a stressful time.  Some acknowledgment that a baby is a lot to take on because it is even without a mental illness.

Validating her doesn't mean you tell her unrealistic fantasies... .  it can be as simple as hearing her and acknowledging her concerns.  The bonus in it is it allows her to figure out what she needs to do (mature) and takes the pressure off you to resolve her problems/emotions while still being supportive.

I apologize for not knowing the whole background can you explain what "last days" means?  

[frustratedmom]

Green Mango -

Thank you for your comments. I think part of my conflict is that though I may know how to validate her emotions and get to a place of conversation, I feel forced into it.  She has always wanted agreement / approval / assent... .  no matter what she does, no matter whom she hurts.

But she didn't want that validation. She wants validation for sitting around, pregnant, and smoking / growing weed. Up until this point, I have not acknowledged her pregnancy, but I have consistently said I support her. That was infuriating to her, so she went n/c. When she contacted me about the money, I knew she was getting desparate enough to make contact, albeit nasty. I decided to do what she wanted so I could understand what was the matter.

Of course everything is the matter.

Tonight  my dh had a conversation with the bf, and been told that my dd is spending over $200 a month on weed, owes several hundred dollars in back utilities, and overspends by at least $400 a month. He sold his guitar, his video games, some other stuff. I think this is fine as he is getting a free place to live and I'm sure smoking half the weed.

But where do we go from here.

She is so ill prepared to take care of a baby. Her apartment is a marijuana grow site, and we dont want to pay utilities for that. Do we enable her? Do we believe him? Do we let her get evicted? How do we control the bleed?

Here's the kicker, she doesn't want our help, because she doesn't want to be indebted to us. But also doesn't want to be on the street.

Is this the point she has to come to grips with reality... .  the REAL reality? If we do not help, she will blame us forever for whatever happens.

So hard.

But one thing I have decided. We will not give them money without sitting down with both of them, to list everything they owe, project future expenses, and discuss what she can and cannot afford... .  basically nothing. Someone needs to gets a job?

And the comment about last days... .  unfortunately she has the same condition as her biological mom, which caused an aortic hemorrhage and put her in a coma for several days. Pregnancy is very high risk for her.

FM

[GreenMango]

I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to be in a situation like this watching your pregnant child make these decisions.

I enabled the crap out my ex, looking back that included drug use.  At first I thought it would quell the outbursts and conflict, etc.  It didn't it made it worse and seriously the demands got even more outrageous.  And I got frustrated, exhausted, and quite frankly angry.  And it circled around and around.  This builds the kind of resentment you are experiencing.

Thank you for your comments. I think part of my conflict is that though I may know how to validate her emotions and get to a place of conversation, I feel forced into it.  She has always wanted agreement / approval / assent... .  no matter what she does, no matter whom she hurts.

But she didn't want that validation. She wants validation for sitting around, pregnant, and smoking / growing weed. Up until this point, I have not acknowledged her pregnancy, but I have consistently said I support her. That was infuriating to her, so she went n/c. When she contacted me about the money, I knew she was getting desparate enough to make contact, albeit nasty. I decided to do what she wanted so I could understand what was the matter.

I'm pretty sure nobody here would advocate for you to validate her drug habit or these choices.  There's a balance in this stuff and a where and when to apply the tools. 

Validating doesn't mean you don't speak truthfully.  This is where SET (Support Empathy Truth) is really helpful.  It communicates that supportive intention, validates some of the feelings, but allows you to communicate the truth or your boundaries/values or expectations. 

The hangup in the Truth aspect is if we have an expectation that these conversations will always go smoothly.  Honestly, they wont always.  Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.  But we can't rush in after when they are upset to fix their upsetness, sometimes we have to let them deal with it.

So if your daughter approaches you about the pregnancy and housing situation looking for you to pay/fix/solve this you could use SET:

S-I love you and I also would like to see your housing situation settled.

E-Being pregnant and having financial problems has to very stressful.

T-I am concerned about your finances and how you are managing them.  I feel uncomfortable lending you money at this time.  Can you help me understand how you are working on this?  Seeing this will help me feel more comfortable and we can talk about it more then.

I almost guarantee this still won't go seamlessly, but it's gonna go over a lot better than saying you blow your money on weed.  But if you wait it out and don't solve this for them offering support and not enabling it allows both these two to figure it out a little step by step.

Have you read the workshop on the difference between support and enabling?  It's good.

Tonight  my dh had a conversation with the bf, and been told that my dd is spending over $200 a month on weed, owes several hundred dollars in back utilities, and overspends by at least $400 a month. He sold his guitar, his video games, some other stuff. I think this is fine as he is getting a free place to live and I'm sure smoking half the weed.

But where do we go from here.

She is so ill prepared to take care of a baby. Her apartment is a marijuana grow site, and we dont want to pay utilities for that. Do we enable her? Do we believe him? Do we let her get evicted? How do we control the bleed?

Sounds like she's going to have to make some hard choices.  You can validate that really easily and still be supportive, but not enabling.  It means though you might have to bite the bullet and step back a little to let the chips fall where they may.  It might mean developing a contingency to care for the baby if she bottoms out. 

It also means not covering for her illness, her drug use, poor choices, her boyfriends illegal activity, but letting the natural consequences if it finds these two to let them happen.  It's hard/painful to watch.  But, enabling builds resentment and it robs her of the opportunity to learn the lessons.  I think many of us can attest to watching this with the person with BPD in our life.

Here's the kicker, she doesn't want our help, because she doesn't want to be indebted to us. But also doesn't want to be on the street.

Is this the point she has to come to grips with reality... .  the REAL reality? If we do not help, she will blame us forever for whatever happens.

So hard.

But one thing I have decided. We will not give them money without sitting down with both of them, to list everything they owe, project future expenses, and discuss what she can and cannot afford... .  basically nothing. Someone needs to gets a job?

And the comment about last days... .  unfortunately she has the same condition as her biological mom, which caused an aortic hemorrhage and put her in a coma for several days. Pregnancy is very high risk for her.

She wants your help on her terms.  You've seen her terms it's really destructive.  It's hard to not be destructive with them.

You could totally do the sit down and make this a conditional thing.   Think about the conditions clearly and the values based boundaries around this support - DEARMAN is a great one on communicating something you want.  It's also probably a good idea to accept now, that there is a real possibility that this may not work out well and ask yourself how the resentment/feelings are going to be then and what you will do if they can't keep up their end of the bargain.

On a side note, growing weed in an apartment, smoking weed and pregnant, paying for your daughters boyfriend to not work etc would be a huge problem for most parents, not many parents would say "gee honey that's awesome" so you aren't wrong here.  But validating her feelings, like when she's upset she can't pay the rent is easy... .  It feels really awful to have money problems it would give me a lot of stress too.  Do you know what you are going to do?

The only other question is I have is why not acknowledge her pregnancy?  Not acknowledging it does a couple of things:

1. communicates rejection, to a person highly sensitive to rejection, through ignoring... .  regardless of if she's taking it seriously.  What's done is done, she's pregnant.  Your baby is going to have a baby.  How this is handled my play a very big role on how much you get be in this little one's life.  Not trying to be a downer here or scare you.  Just the possible realities.

2. kind of participates in the if we pretend like it isn't there then it isn't happening... .  so all the other poor choices she's making gets a free pass - does this make sense?  You inadvertently end up participating in her denial of responsibility.  She gets to be pregnant when it's convenient.

It's sound like you are tying validating and solving things for her, it's not; but if we treat it like that or think we have validate things that really shouldn't be validated then we can get resentful.  Mom's can have that motherly instinct.  Do you know when you just want your husband/partner to listen to you or hear you and that would make things better, you don't necessarily need him to do anything... .  maybe think of it like that.

I'm very sorry about your daughter's health and all this is going on.  I don't think you would be on these boards if you didn't care even being as frustrated as you sound.  You care, it's obvious; this stuff wouldn't piss you off this much if you didn't care.  And it's not easy, but little moves for yourself can make it a little less emotionally stressful for you too and may make the relationship with your daughter a little more manageable.  One day at a time.

[frustratedmom]

We've decided, since the money in her bank account is earmarked for education... .  or rather a reward for graduating, that we will use part of it to pay for the utilities, with the idea that she is going to start actively working on her GED or high school diploma. This way it keeps the money within the spirit of the reward.

The catch is that if she does not show work on her GED, there will be no more money next month.

Hopefully, since she actually liked the academics of school, she will be bitten by the learning bug again.

The issue with the pregnancy is that sex has been her main method of self harm (besides cutting) for a long time now. She has brought the underworld into our lives, and has ruined every Christmas for the last five years either because she was pregnant, or running away to have sex with creeps she met online or in school. She had sex with numerous guys in the nice park behind our house, and was picked up by 40 year old jerks in the middle of the night in front of the elementary school she went to across the street.

I had to go to see ultrasounds when she was 15. I had to meet with parents and doctors. I suffered a dislocated elbow when I slipped on the ice while preparing for a third trimester abortion after she kept the pregnancy hidden for six months. I had to hear her scream.

She has had IUDs displaced because the guys she has sex with are so big and she is so tiny, and they stick other things inside her for fun. They have burned her and tattooed her and gang banged her. And she always went back for more.

So when she quit taking the pill so she could get pregnant, again, she did so because she wanted something to do, to get attention for, to be admired for. A new toy.

I don't really have much space for her abuse of us anymore, so I'm not interested in having a relationship with a child who will be used as a pawn. The best thing that could to this child is that it will be taken by authorities and placed for adoption. But I doubt it will be that lucky.

FM

[qcarolr]

fm - ouch. You have been through a very very long and painful time with your D. Still, why are you giving her money for utilities with strings attached? She is having a baby, is stoned, etc etc etc - what is the likelyhood that she will be able to do any kind of educational activity in next 30 days?

I know this may sound harsh, it is a harsh situation. What happens if they have no electricity, no food, etc. - will bf bail out? will social services get more involved? Could this lead to greater supervision for this baby when it is born from social services? Do they know she is doing mj while pregnant?

I have given DSS anonymous information a couple times in the past when I believed that a soon to be born child was already at risk or would be immediately at risk when born. The heads up worked to put people in the mom's life that needed to know. In one case it was a 14 year old that needed to have her family know she was 6 mos. pregnant - she got the support she needed, moved in with the daddy's family and this autistic son is now 10 years old and doing OK. The other was stopped from doing cocaine at least during the final 60 days of the prenancy and the adoptive parents that were paying to full bill were let in on the risks they could look forward to with their new daughter. Plus there was greater supervision of the two kids already in this cocaine addicted moms life. Both of these were friends of my DD26 - both her age.

Don't know if this story is really relevant to your situation. Just know my heart is with you, and my support in the tough choices you are having to make. So hard to love them when they feel so lost to us.

Take care of yourselves - your and dh.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[frustratedmom]

Qcarolr -

With the education, are just trying to get her started... .  to see her way beyond this mess. Even if she calls the school and sets it up herself, that is much more initiative than she has ever had before when I did all of the research and organizing.

She likes the idea, and since it made sense to us we were able to offer it.There is no deadline, its available locally and it's free until she is 21.

As for DHS, we have given them so much info they are sick of hearing from us. First it was her case worker, then it was the adult abuse division, who went and talked to her and at that moment she said she was fine, she was 18, and she could abuse her body any way she pleased thank you very much. They dropped the case. We asked DHS how they could assign her stoner bf to be her caregiver, as he was being paid to grow and smoke weed, as well as get her pregnant. They said because he had no record and nobody challenging his placement when he signed up, they could not take it away now, even though the police have been several times.

Their apartment is registered as a "legal grow site" as they both have MMJ cards. There doesn't appear to being anything illegal about having a child living in a "grow site" and she says her ObGyn would rather she smoke weed for pain than use other drugs.

She is addicted to weed, but she says it's her "medicine" and there is nothing anyone can do about it. When she was stronger and doing physical therapy, she got by on ibuprofen. But she is now in such bad shape AND pregnant so I have no doubt she is in pain. Unfortunately, her anxieties from BPD produce tension, and then her muscles contract, dislocating her joints. She's a mess physically.

On the other hand, we don't want her evicted so she didn't have a place, because she would not come home and we would not support her addiction if she did.

We spent so much time and effort trying to get her to see the possibilities in her life, without medication. But she likes the stoner cult. The people, the pipes, the fancy weed names, the munchies... .  the idea that it is MEDICINE makes it ligitimate for her.

Eventually, her friends in school not only had parents who accepted weed, they happily smoked with their kids, and at least two of them were growers. Some of the kids finished school, others got kicked out or sent other places.

Thankfully she left before they busted the lot of them... .  at least I didn't have to go through that too.

FM

[GreenMango]

I thinks it's a good thing you offered the school and are letting her do the legwork.  It's there if she wants it.  It's supportive but not fixing it.  I'm with qcarolr it may not happen for awhile.

I would be worn out too by all this too.  Going through this year in and year out can really tap a person's well. 

As I read her background, I think how much more can this kid put herself through?  It was horrible and so very sad.

On the other hand, we don't want her evicted so she didn't have a place, because she would not come home and we would not support her addiction if she did.

I say this with the utmost respect, it sounds like you are dealing with an addict too (I know people like to paint cannibis as all natural, but most of can tell the difference between the recreational occasional user and someone who's self-medicating with it).  This is rough.  Have you looked into Alanon at all?  It could be a good thing.

It sounds like one of those spots where the options are bad, and bad.  This is one of those where loved ones are making hard choices.  The "legal" aspect of the pot industry keeps the authorities from intervening sadly.  

It's a scary choice you guys are faced with because the consequences of withdrawing support or drawing boundaries, because of what she might do or run off to.  It's the a prime situation when our (because a lot of us here on these boards can be enablers) enabling instincts start to kick in.  The saying on the staying board is nothing changes without changes, we keep doing the same things the same things keep happening.

I think it's even more difficult for parents because of the parental instinct.

My thoughts are with you.  How's your support through this?

[frustratedmom]

So sorry for all the graphic venting. But I realized last night the crux of my problem with the pregnancy... .  

I do not want to fall in love again, only to have this precious little girl turn into a pwBPD and slaughter her future in the same way,  and turn on us like we caused it all. It is too much to go through again, even knowing what I know now.

Sounds so melodramatic geez.

This site lets me get to the root of my thoughts, and reading everyone else's posts gives me perspective and hope for my once beautiful and innocent daughter. She is trying to be positive about things right now and we do want to support that.

One day at a time!

FM

[qcarolr]

So sorry for all the graphic venting. But I realized last night the crux of my problem with the pregnancy... .  

I do not want to fall in love again, only to have this precious little girl turn into a pwBPD and slaughter her future in the same way,  and turn on us like we caused it all. It is too much to go through again, even knowing what I know now.

Sounds so melodramatic geez.

This site lets me get to the root of my thoughts, and reading everyone else's posts gives me perspective and hope for my once beautiful and innocent daughter. She is trying to be positive about things right now and we do want to support that.

One day at a time!

FM

This site helps me too - open my mind to broader perspective, new ideas, others pain - then I can sort it all out for my situation.

I believe that doing what we can to stay connected within our boundaries is so very very important. This is the first step our kids can choose to accept to begin changing how they repsond to their world. I have become very ambivelant about the pot issues - it is now legal in our state - I have seen how moderate use can really help DD's anxiety with less hangover and fewer side effects. I have also seen her stone herself out. So many of her friends that have passed through our life state they will not give up the mj as it helps them function better than anything else. If used truly as medicine - not overused to point of abuse and psychological addiction.  Enough of my lecturing for today!

Getting you D out of the apt for errands away from bf - this is also very valuable is allowing her the space to begin making independent choices. Like the idea of shopping trips.

Also know the need to guard our hearts from gkids. And the fears of 'doing it all over again'. I struggle with this with gd7's ADHD dx, meds. and learning difficulties that are so similar to both her parents. And her strong will. Pray for courage to keep calm and teach her coping skills. Do not look forward to puberty at all. Am thankful for DD's improving r/s with gd with hope for the mom to be involved when I am older and Gd is  a teen.

Kept my direct contact with my gs5 to a minimum. Kept him overnight only one time - did not rescue him when things started to go bad in the apt. with alcohol and cocaine. He was in our home often with DD so could see that he was not abused, though there was some neglect. When police responded to a suicide threat from DD and called us to get baby (5 mos.), we told them no and to call social services. He was place in foster care - DD went NC for 6 months - well other than calling to blame me for all. He is a happy boy with his new family from what is on the mom's facebook.

Do what you need to do to take care of yourself and love your D as able. You and your dh seem to be on a reasonble path.

qcr  

[mary290]

FM, in reading through this thread all I can say is you sound like a saint and my heart goes out to you.  I have been through a fraction of what you have endured and I feel like I have been run over by a train.  Unless someone has walked in your shoes it is hard to say what should or should not have been done in the various situations.  You seem to have done everything you could for your daughter.  We are battling with ours at this point too.  Not quite to the same extent as you but the bottom line is the pain they cause us hurts so much and when you talk about bringing a baby into the mix... .  oy.  Hang in there and know you have a lot of people cheering for you.  Not sure if you are a religious person but I will certainly keep you in my prayers.

Mary

[frustratedmom]

Qcr -

I hope that my dd and I can do some shopping together, go to another library, wherever that isn't stuck in that hole of an apartment. The idea that she will never get better if she forgets us has driven me to ignore her normal defensive nastiness to try to get to a higher ground of communication. It has only worked that way a couple of times.

I am making a scrapbook of her life for her, both to remember what her upbringing was really like, and for something to show others of happier times. It makes me sad to see all the photos of her as a little girl, but then I remember some funny story and try to focus on that.

She has not returned emails today... .  I suspect she has gone n/c again after getting what she wanted. I would not put it past her planning with her bf to dupe us, playing nicey nicey, to not have her electricity shut off. I will be completely surprised if she does anything about school, but then she knows the conditions of the payout.

My dh feels so lost when I talk about her like this... .  it's just that I've seen the pattern too many

times before. He thinks when she finally agrees to meet with him and have these chats that she hears him because she agrees with everything he is saying, but she only does this when she is desparate... .  and he is completely blinded by it. He just wants her to understand how he feels. He cannot believe that she does not care about him at all, even though she lies to him and about him, and would never stand in the way if somebody wanted to harm him.

Mary -

I am no saint - just a mom who endures whatever comes in one way or another... and sometimes it's not pretty! Really if you had told me ten years ago that I would survive this, I would not have believed you... .  I think the only way is to have it creep up on you... .  then just when you think you might have a handle on it... .  the dam breaks. Then you just swim for your life!

Thanks for all of the good thoughts!

FM