Is there any reason to stick with an udBPDgf who refuses therapy?

[nowwhatz]

Ok is seems like many of us know the drill... .  especially if we have a BPDgf... .  diagnosed or not.

As soon as they get close and intimate they flake, then after a few weeks (in my case) them come back as gf or at least friend with benefits.  Either way you hear the I loves yous blah blah.

It is always very confusing and very hurtful depending on our level of attachment.

Then the process repeats itself.

In the prior recycle I blasted the exgf for her behavior at the end... .  like a lovable dog that gets kicked everyday and finally bites back. I bit back hard and hurt her probably as bad as she hurt me.

This time I have way less anger and an doing a great job of detaching in a semi controlled way.

Still I am in pain and not sleeping great... .  still thinking about the person who does not really exist or cannot exist for more than a flash before the fears of abandonment kick in and she pushes away abruptly (I love you I love you and the next day I am not ready for a r/s etc).

So that is the deal. I am sure many of us have dealt with something similar.

My hope is that this exgf can one day get into therapy. I am probably the only person in her life that has some understanding of BPD (thanks to this site)... .  so I feel somewhat responsible to stick with her to try to help make her aware and get help.

Am I as crazy as the exgf?

[Rose Tiger]

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder [NEW]

Hey Nowwhatz   the link above is to the article with 10 Beliefs that can keep us stuck.  Pay particular attention to Belief #9.  I think that will answer your question. 

[seeking balance]

Hi nowwhatz,

Well, you ask a good question here:

Am I as crazy as the exgf?

The truth?  You are having an emotional hard time by your own admission, you are here because you believe she has BPD - 2 highly charged emotionally challenged people are not going to be able to have a functional relationship.

So, what can you control?  You - that is is.

How are you doing with the tools on the staying board?  Lessons making sense?

Many people are able to find a tolerable relationship when they learn the skills to not make it worse and to depersonalize when your ex is triggered.

Most people who go to therapy and really work it - things may get worse before they get better.  If your ex goes into DBT or some other therapy, are you getting the help you need to be a supportive partner?

If you ex never goes into therapy - is this a relationship you want?  Ultimately, this question is really the key - therapy is not a golden ticket to a happy relationship (I wish it were though).

Keep reading here, keep processing what you want and what you are willing to do to have what you want.

10 beliefs that Rose Tiger gave you was my lifeline when my relationship ended - but I was on the leaving board then.  This is undecided board - so if you are truly undecided, focus on the staying so you understand the tools you need.  If you are ready to detach, leaving is your place... .  I will say, I personally find the undecided a very hard place to be when I was there - take good care of YOU right now.

Peace,

SB

[nowwhatz]

Hi nowwhatz,

Well, you ask a good question here:

Am I as crazy as the exgf?

The truth?  You are having an emotional hard time by your own admission, you are here because you believe she has BPD - 2 highly charged emotionally challenged people are not going to be able to have a functional relationship.

So, what can you control?  You - that is is.

How are you doing with the tools on the staying board?  Lessons making sense?

Many people are able to find a tolerable relationship when they learn the skills to not make it worse and to depersonalize when your ex is triggered.

Most people who go to therapy and really work it - things may get worse before they get better.  If your ex goes into DBT or some other therapy, are you getting the help you need to be a supportive partner?

If you ex never goes into therapy - is this a relationship you want?  Ultimately, this question is really the key - therapy is not a golden ticket to a happy relationship (I wish it were though).

Keep reading here, keep processing what you want and what you are willing to do to have what you want.

10 beliefs that Rose Tiger gave you was my lifeline when my relationship ended - but I was on the leaving board then.  This is undecided board - so if you are truly undecided, focus on the staying so you understand the tools you need.  If you are ready to detach, leaving is your place... .  I will say, I personally find the undecided a very hard place to be when I was there - take good care of YOU right now.

Peace,

SB

Thanks so much SB!

Yes undecided sucks. But there are some factors which are nudging me towards a permanent termination of the 'romantic' r/s.   

I have not seen her for a few days and probably won't for a while. I miss her. I am attached to her but the sexual attraction I had before is not as strong... .  and that was the glue.

Plus the exgf's hopelessness and problems is starting to bore me and is becoming kind of a joke. I am trying to be nice and send a positive text message every now and then.

I have plenty of my own problems and I am not sure I can take care of myself if I have to be the caretaker of a BPD person.

The staying tools are super helpful.

I did not discuss BPD with the exgf this time. Do you think there is any value in ever discussing the subject with an udBPD person if they refuse even getting a proper diagnosis?

[cookiedough]

Obviously I'm not an expert at this at all because I'm still hurting, can't sleep, and confused a month later.

They will always do this. Mine I believe was going to go to therapy after the hospital but that process is going to be long and hard and their emotions will change all the time through the therapy... .  and then in the end even if you stick by them through all of it they still might/will leave again!

I visited mine in the hospital every day for two weeks (40 min drive there and back) and in the end he still pushed me away... .  again.

I guess you have to see where you are in life and if you have the time/energy to deal with the roller-coaster.

The I'm in love with you/I'm not in love with you is exhausting and them leaving you is hurtful and it messes with your emotions and confidence.

It's not that we don't love them/are in love with them it's just too much... .  I lost myself in the relationship and I think a lot of people in these types of relationships do lose themselves.

The hardest part is that they always want you to stick around as something... .  so if they are not in love anymore they want you to be their friend... until they are in love again... .  I mean how selfish is this!

So if you have to leave to take care of yourself for a change then that's that.

[MontyD]

Hi Nowwhatz ,

To answer your question "Is there any reason to stick with an udBPDgf who refuses therapy?" ,  NO.

My dBPDgf has been in therapy since last August and has improved so much that I'm about to shift to the staying board.  I would think now that our r/s is almost "normal". When she becomes stressed, for the want of a better word, she asks me if we can have a chat and we get pass the problem.

To get her to therapy I set strong boundaries after she said she wanted to go and get fixed. ( I know there is not a complete "fix".)

If she didn't continue with the therapy, I would leave, permanently.

I maintained limited contact. A visit maybe every second or third day.

Limited texts. Only important stuff. Relationship matters were off limits.

I went along to the same therapist to get help for me.

Through the therapist I was able to check her progress and learn some more things I could do to, other than what I had learnt  here on these boards.  Things that were more specific to us.

Maybe come February when her sessions finish, we may just move in together. (again).

If your udBPDgf refuses help, you can't give it.  The desire to get help has to come within her.  If she doesn't recognise the problem, then walk, and don't look back.

MontyD

[kl315]

I wold have to agree with Monty. Appropriate therapy seems to be the only thing that can have a significant impact on this disorder. I saw tremendous progress in my exdBPDbf during the year he was in therapy. However, it still crashed and burned in the end. Without therapy? I can't imagine.

Setting that boundary and sticking to it may well get her into therapy... .  but it may not and you need to be prepared for the consequences if she refuses to get help.

Good luck and I hope you can convince her.

KL

[HarmKrakow]

Is there any reason to stick with an udBPDgf who refuses therapy?

1) Yes, because being in a relationship like that gives you the most intense feelings ever. Your living in the clouds, you feel fantastic, everything is just merely awesome.

2) No, because you end up in the gutter after a while, with screwed up emotions, no energy, headache, money issues, carreer issues, lose of friends, etc.

[waverider]

To stay in such a relationship take an enormous amount of changes to what you would normally accept. It will be a mixture of boundaries to protect yourself, learning new skills to avoid/reduce uneccessary conflict, and a large dose of acceptance that things will not be fair and it will never be a "normal" arrangement, and truely accept that it doesn't matter. Effectively taking on the role of carer

[nowwhatz]

I wold have to agree with Monty. Appropriate therapy seems to be the only thing that can have a significant impact on this disorder. I saw tremendous progress in my exdBPDbf during the year he was in therapy. However, it still crashed and burned in the end. Without therapy? I can't imagine.

Setting that boundary and sticking to it may well get her into therapy... .  but it may not and you need to be prepared for the consequences if she refuses to get help.

Good luck and I hope you can convince her.

KL

Monty and KL thank you.

She was in therapy years ago in mexico and she says it does not help her. I believe she was not in the right type of therapy.  The problem is she does not have any understanding of BPD... .  just thinks she has depression.

I am at a spot with her where my protective wall is up so my contact is very, very limited. And I am starting to look at her as simply a sick person.

I want to help make her aware when the time is right that there are other forms of therapy specifically... .  like DBT etc.

She does not know about that type of therapy. How do I relay information to her about DBT without coming across as judgmental?

My thoughts were to meet up with her someplace and say no hard feelings here, I care about you and want you to be well etc.  I feel like I am in a pretty good place emotionally to talk with her about it just not sure how. Thank you.

[nowwhatz]

Is there any reason to stick with an udBPDgf who refuses therapy?

1) Yes, because being in a relationship like that gives you the most intense feelings ever. Your living in the clouds, you feel fantastic, everything is just merely awesome.

2) No, because you end up in the gutter after a while, with screwed up emotions, no energy, headache, money issues, carreer issues, lose of friends, etc.

Yes this is accurate.  Everything you described in 1) and 2) has happened to me.

I even picked up one of my exgf's bad habits... .  playing slot machines at the casino... .  although there is a silver lining to that one... .  if the gf asks me for money I can always say no I lost it all at the casino .

[hithere]

Am I as crazy as the exgf?

I don't think you are crazy but I would advise you to cut your losses and move on. Better to hurt for a few months now than to be unhappy the rest of your life.

You can't force her into therapy and even for BPD's in therapy it is a long, long road to improvement and you might have to still put up with most of this crap anyways.

[nowwhatz]

Am I as crazy as the exgf?

I don't think you are crazy but I would advise you to cut your losses and move on. Better to hurt for a few months now than to be unhappy the rest of your life.

You can't force her into therapy and even for BPD's in therapy it is a long, long road to improvement and you might have to still put up with most of this crap anyways.

Yes easier said than done but maybe a little easier this time.

[SeekerofTruth]

(Rhetorical Q)

How would you self-rate your executive ego functionality regarding your "planning" & "monitoring" (effort & skill) on a scale of 1-10?

(Loaded Q)

5 years from now, would you rather spend time on managing your relationship with your BPDso, or on something else?

[nowwhatz]

(Rhetorical Q)

How would you self-rate your executive ego functionality regarding your "planning" & "monitoring" (effort & skill) on a scale of 1-10?

(Loaded Q)

5 years from now, would you rather spend time on managing your relationship with your BPDso, or on something else?

On question 1 probably a 3.5... .  used to be higher. Not to play blame game but my general life attitude has changed dramatically over the last 2 years since I have been involved with the BPDso. And not for the better.

For loaded question... .  five years from now I will be 55 years old... .  you would think by now I would be smart enough not to be involved with a BPDgf... .  .   

No reasonable person I know encourages me to stay involved with her.

I can foresee a nightmare scenario trying to manage my r/s with this person which could lead me to an early grave.

[Newton]

nowwhatz... .  my T (who met my ex briefly)... .  said "Newton, to make this relationship work... .  you will have to be superman... .  and at the same time expect very little in return for that effort"... .  

It was a combination of seeing zero change from ex, and starting to shift the focus away from her... .  and on to me (quite an alien concept initially)... .  that the futility of the situation became clearer.

No matter how long it takes you to arrive at your conclusion either way... .  that decision will happen when you are ready for it... .  and there will be support here for you every step of the way... .  

[nowwhatz]

nowwhatz... .  my T (who met my ex briefly)... .  said "Newton, to make this relationship work... .  you will have to be superman... .  and at the same time expect very little in return for that effort"... .  

It was a combination of seeing zero change from ex, and starting to shift the focus away from her... .  and on to me (quite an alien concept initially)... .  that the futility of the situation became clearer.

No matter how long it takes you to arrive at your conclusion either way... .  that decision will happen when you are ready for it... .  and there will be support here for you every step of the way... .  

Thanks so much Newton! I appreciate all the support  I think I am starting to focus away from her to to myself.

Well I think I am close to arriving at a conclusion thanks to another 'experience.'

My udBPDexgf invited me to meet her at the casino for coffee. I did so and met her playing a slot machine. She was uncharacteristically nice and interested in me even asking me how my day was.  Then after she lost her $ she said prestarme dinero which I am pretty sure means loan me some money. Then she said she would pay me back on Friday. I found her request distasteful and ignored it completely and played a penny slot machine for a few minutes. Her mood changed to not so great.

I did buy her some coffee and my timing being bad as usual I took the opportunity to talk with her about her sudden dramatic changes in feelings and said if she is ever feeling very stressed she should call me and talk before she makes any sudden decisions etc... .  and related how I had been trying to do the same... .  take a step back and wait... .  or wait a day and talk to a friend before making any kind of 'panicky' decision.  I told her I had a lot of confidence that she could recognize when she is stressed and manage it and encouraged her to call me as a friend if she felt out of sorts.

Immediately she took it as being judgmental and an attack and she brought up a prior text I had sent her in the past which was defensive on my part and said she wants to push me away further when she saw that text. And she said I don't need to be treated like that etc. And also reminded me that she has saved those texts as if to use them against me in some way.

I agreed with her that the text was insensitive and told her that I have been working hard to take care of my emotional health and impulsive defensive reaction to her push aways,  but explained that I have never experienced recycles with any other woman in my entire life so it has taken me time to get used to the behavior pattern, not take it personally, and manage it properly. I told her I am not superman... .  (expect maybe in bed haha)... .  just human.

She got pissed off and we left and later I decided to send her a text (which she hates) explaining that no matter what has happened and even though our r/s has always been one sided I am thankful for it because I think highly of her and discovered that loving another person can be a source of happiness and that through meeting her I found out I can love a person completely again.

I told her I had forgiven her of all and asked her to consider forgiving me and also to consider a trusting friendship only.

I mentioned that I am dating another person non-exclusively and did not wish to close the door but would like to establish a trusting, caring friendship first before ever considering another romantic relationship.  I said I love her now as a friend and not in a romantic way (which is the truth).  

I expressed that I am still willing to be there for her, will not abandon her but also requested some reciprocity in the friendship as I have needs too and appreciate her when she listens to me.

I ended it by saying if she is totally uncomfortable with me to feel free to block my phone number, I did not want to add to her pain... .  but if not let's move forward to build a real friendship based on trust and mutual respect. I don't expect her to block me but if she does so be it.

Anyways the ball is in her court but asking me for money left a bad taste in my mouth and further eroded my romantic interest in her. (not a bad thing).

I will try hard to leave her alone, not contact her etc. for a while.  She will be mad about the text but I feel like I am establishing more boundaries for the r/s. If I can find the strength to refrain from initiating contact for a while that will be good.

I know, I know... .  what a royal pain in the ass right? .   Well somewhere through all of this I am learning to be a better person I hope and learning to identify my needs.

[SeekerofTruth]

 

On question 1 probably a 3.5... .  used to be higher. Not to play blame game but my general life attitude has changed dramatically over the last 2 years since I have been involved with the BPDso. And not for the better. 

Well said.  I know what you mean.  I also struggle with "not to play game, but... .  " reality is, there's this thing I got myself into called a relationship, and on one hand, while I knew I was losing ground on the things most prominant in my mind, on the otherhand, I didn't know wth was going on and How ITF did I get here... .    Oh, so looking and needing to grow from this pain, learning... .  deeper self-examination, in process of reclaiming responsibility in order to transcend victimizationhood.

[HarmKrakow]

Is it really harsh to say, RUN!  when a friend of yours comes to you; "Hey mate, my udBPDgf refuses therapy? I mean, my shrink even said it in a 'covered' kind of way. Not like he mentioned RUN! but the message was loud and clear.

Also something i've heard from other people who had therapy with 'crazy' BPD's where the shrink literally told them; "Go away! I would even pack your bags if neccesary!"

[Newton]

I appreciate the sentiments of wanting to say "run"... .  as advice to people when we perceive an abusive relationship situation as a third party observer... .  

A word of caution... .  (not relating precisely to this thread as the circumstances seem different).

If a friend is seemingly entrenched in an abusive relationship... .  and they are financially dependent, trauma bonded, or have little to no support network, then "running"... .  without a safety plan to make a clean... .  safe break can often result in a need or desire to return to said abuse... .  thats when things can escalate very quickly... .  and very badly.

Obviously if someone feels in imminent danger then removing themselves from the situation is priority!... .  

If, however, there is adequate time to put things in place to make a transition to leaving easier (even if it results in walking away with NC at a given time)... .  it would be preferable to plan carefully.

Alternatively... .  if a couple are not cohabiting then an eased transition from the intensity and drama... .  to LC... .  then possibly NC... .  is also an option.

Just because pwBPDs behaviour is often dramatic and OTT... .  it doesn't mean we have to reciprocate 

[HarmKrakow]

I appreciate the sentiments of wanting to say "run"... .  as advice to people when we perceive an abusive relationship situation as a third party observer... .  

A word of caution... .  (not relating precisely to this thread as the circumstances seem different).

If a friend is seemingly entrenched in an abusive relationship... .  and they are financially dependent, trauma bonded, or have little to no support network, then "running"... .  without a safety plan to make a clean... .  safe break can often result in a need or desire to return to said abuse... .  thats when things can escalate very quickly... .  and very badly.

Obviously if someone feels in imminent danger then removing themselves from the situation is priority!... .  

If, however, there is adequate time to put things in place to make a transition to leaving easier (even if it results in walking away with NC at a given time)... .  it would be preferable to plan carefully.

Alternatively... .  if a couple are not cohabiting then an eased transition from the intensity and drama... .  to LC... .  then possibly NC... .  is also an option.

Just because pwBPDs behaviour is often dramatic and OTT... .  it doesn't mean we have to reciprocate 

It would of course makes sense to make an escape plan while being with your looney BPD. Build a foundation next to the toxic relationship and therefore have somewhere to run to the moment you escape.

[waverider]

I appreciate the sentiments of wanting to say "run"... .  as advice to people when we perceive an abusive relationship situation as a third party observer... .  

A word of caution... .  (not relating precisely to this thread as the circumstances seem different).

If a friend is seemingly entrenched in an abusive relationship... .  and they are financially dependent, trauma bonded, or have little to no support network, then "running"... .  without a safety plan to make a clean... .  safe break can often result in a need or desire to return to said abuse... .  thats when things can escalate very quickly... .  and very badly.

Obviously if someone feels in imminent danger then removing themselves from the situation is priority!... .  

If, however, there is adequate time to put things in place to make a transition to leaving easier (even if it results in walking away with NC at a given time)... .  it would be preferable to plan carefully.

Alternatively... .  if a couple are not cohabiting then an eased transition from the intensity and drama... .  to LC... .  then possibly NC... .  is also an option.

Just because pwBPDs behaviour is often dramatic and OTT... .  it doesn't mean we have to reciprocate 

This is sound advise, basically fix yourself, then not only will you then be perfectly clear what can be achieved by staying, you will also be clear of the reasons as to why you leave, if thats your choice.

It also ensures that if you leave you do it with a plan, an agenda and direction. Leaving a normal relationship is hard enough, leaving when you are emotionally crushed and confused, while under attack from an aggravated BPDex makes you extremely vulnerable.

This often results in being trapped in endless recycling as the BPD "charms" you back with promises of the old idealization phase.

[nowwhatz]

I appreciate the sentiments of wanting to say "run"... .  as advice to people when we perceive an abusive relationship situation as a third party observer... .  

A word of caution... .  (not relating precisely to this thread as the circumstances seem different).

If a friend is seemingly entrenched in an abusive relationship... .  and they are financially dependent, trauma bonded, or have little to no support network, then "running"... .  without a safety plan to make a clean... .  safe break can often result in a need or desire to return to said abuse... .  thats when things can escalate very quickly... .  and very badly.

Obviously if someone feels in imminent danger then removing themselves from the situation is priority!... .  

If, however, there is adequate time to put things in place to make a transition to leaving easier (even if it results in walking away with NC at a given time)... .  it would be preferable to plan carefully.

Alternatively... .  if a couple are not cohabiting then an eased transition from the intensity and drama... .  to LC... .  then possibly NC... .  is also an option.

Just because pwBPDs behaviour is often dramatic and OTT... .  it doesn't mean we have to reciprocate  

I am in no imminent danger and feel closer to being personally ready to try to establish a legitimate friendship... .  although I expect to not hear from her for a while unless she tries to call for $ (a good possibility).

I left the door open to her in my text for a possible friendship which I think is the right thing to do.  I hope to build up another foundation like was mentioned.

For me the biggest challenge will be to resist the temptation to try to contact her from this point forward. At least on my end I need to be NC until I see some evidence of positive action on her part.  

That means I will be working 15 hour days, working out, playing my music with my band, go dancing with the other girl (a non-crazy... .  I am attracted to her but my spanish still sucks and her english is not that great but  a fun girl nonetheless)... .  keep around people.

I will stay on this board as I am still undecided whether or not to totally end all involvement.

I kept the door open for her... .  we will see what happens but she annoyed me by asking for money last night so I am in no rush to see her.

[Newton]

It seems from your post you are keeping the door open solely for her needs... .  

What about yours?... .  (or are there some of those involved too?)

[nowwhatz]

It seems from your post you are keeping the door open solely for her needs... .  

What about yours?... .  (or are there some of those involved too?)

Newton you are painting me into a corner haha... .  I appreciate it.

I have this 'fantasy' of have an actual friendship with the person (or more) where good times and support can be shared. In my text to her I said I will be there for you but I want you to also be there for me... .  as friends... .  

There is no way I can ever really expect her to meet many of my needs... .  maybe a few.

I do feel there is some moral obligation on my part to have an open line of communication in case of emergency. Maybe being there for her fills one of my needs? I don't know... .  gets complicated.  There is also the possibility of her meeting my sexual needs at one point.

But for now I suppose I have to figure out what I need.

[Newton]

I hope you appreciate that my questions are from a place of understanding (I've walked in your shoes)... .  and I get the feeling if you are cornered you are far more interested in being introspective... .  than coming out fighting ... .  it certainly seems that way anyway  and i'm glad for you that you are in such a self analytical place 

Exploring these ideas is important and healthy... .  as SB implied recently... the undecided board isn't a great place to be long term... .  it's a great board... .  but being stuck in internal conflict isn't healthy... .  

I've really struggled with the "moral" challenges of "being" there for someone... .  only last week in fact as my close friends know... .  it's a tough call.

The answers are in you... .  they are your choices to make... .  it's your life 

[nowwhatz]

I appreciate the sentiments of wanting to say "run"... .  as advice to people when we perceive an abusive relationship situation as a third party observer... .  

A word of caution... .  (not relating precisely to this thread as the circumstances seem different).

If a friend is seemingly entrenched in an abusive relationship... .  and they are financially dependent, trauma bonded, or have little to no support network, then "running"... .  without a safety plan to make a clean... .  safe break can often result in a need or desire to return to said abuse... .  thats when things can escalate very quickly... .  and very badly.

Obviously if someone feels in imminent danger then removing themselves from the situation is priority!... .  

If, however, there is adequate time to put things in place to make a transition to leaving easier (even if it results in walking away with NC at a given time)... .  it would be preferable to plan carefully.

Alternatively... .  if a couple are not cohabiting then an eased transition from the intensity and drama... .  to LC... .  then possibly NC... .  is also an option.

Just because pwBPDs behaviour is often dramatic and OTT... .  it doesn't mean we have to reciprocate 

This is sound advise, basically fix yourself, then not only will you then be perfectly clear what can be achieved by staying, you will also be clear of the reasons as to why you leave, if thats your choice.

It also ensures that if you leave you do it with a plan, an agenda and direction. Leaving a normal relationship is hard enough, leaving when you are emotionally crushed and confused, while under attack from an aggravated BPDex makes you extremely vulnerable.

This often results in being trapped in endless recycling as the BPD "charms" you back with promises of the old idealization phase.

Yes I agree and thank you.   Yeah well I shouldn't see or hear from her for a while now so I should have some time to grieve again and 'fix' myself.  I'd like to think I am handling every recycle a little better. Unlike the last time I have not been beating myself up at all after this 'break up.'  I think I have done my best to treat this person with love and respect (thought not behaved perfectly) and feel that my intentions have been honorable.

There is nothing more I can say or do at this time that can really help this person. Will try to help myself.

[nowwhatz]

I hope you appreciate that my questions are from a place of understanding (I've walked in your shoes)... .  and I get the feeling if you are cornered you are far more interested in being introspective... .  than coming out fighting ... .  it certainly seems that way anyway  and i'm glad for you that you are in such a self analytical place 

Exploring these ideas is important and healthy... .  as SB implied recently... the undecided board isn't a great place to be long term... .  it's a great board... .  but being stuck in internal conflict isn't healthy... .  

I've really struggled with the "moral" challenges of "being" there for someone... .  only last week in fact as my close friends know... .  it's a tough call.

The answers are in you... .  they are your choices to make... .  it's your life 

I appreciate your input very much and realize your questions come from understanding.

The last time I was painted into the corner by this person I didn't just come out fighting... .  it was more like a massive nuclear retaliation.  So much so I was amazed that she called to recycle again.

This time yes... .  I have little or no bad feelings towards her (most of the time). I have taken a couple of jabs at her (told her to have fun with the re-re-re cycle guys and make them buy your hair extensions)... .  not proud of that but I have done a pretty good job being respectful and looking inward without being too hard on myself (unlike the last time).

I know I have annoyed her by first saying I needed space then staying in contact but that is natural in grieving I think to be confused, bargain etc.

[Newton]

Of course... .  I am far from proud of some of my behaviour in response to ex's pushing my buttons... .  people with BPD seem to be able to read between the lines though and get to our deepest darkest buttons!.  I've always maintained that they bring out the best, and worst in us... .  (or perhaps shine the mirror on those parts of us)... .  

I too was stunned that my ex's were willing to "forgive and forget" after huge blow ups... .  but I believe that was down to how quickly their feelings/facts change... .  (and when they needed to they had never really done either)... .  

You mentioned a new girl in your life?... .  

[nowwhatz]

Of course... .  I am far from proud of some of my behaviour in response to ex's pushing my buttons... .  people with BPD seem to be able to read between the lines though and get to our deepest darkest buttons!.  I've always maintained that they bring out the best, and worst in us... .  (or perhaps shine the mirror on those parts of us)... .  

I too was stunned that my ex's were willing to "forgive and forget" after huge blow ups... .  but I believe that was down to how quickly their feelings/facts change... .  (and when they needed to they had never really done either)... .  

You mentioned a new girl in your life?... .  

Yes they can push our buttons for sure! During my conversation last night with the exgf she said I was weird because I said I needed space then felt differently. I told her I am doing a lot better managing the recycles and had never experienced a r/s before where one partner loves the other intensely then doesn't then does then doesn't and so on... .  and that if even her and I were married I expect it would be no different for the rest of our lives.   And also that I accept that this is just how it is. 

Now of course she took this as a big attack when it was actually the opposite but my acceptance of the reality of her condition is helping me to keep it together.

There is a 'new' girl that I have known and dated casually between recycles over the last year.   This 'new' girl is pretty, younger than my exgf, has boobs , is financially and emotionally stable, fun (loves to go dancing), likes music, healthy (in great shape), can cook, doesn't gamble, is a great mom, ... .  other than being pretty she is nothing like the exgf.  Plus she is crazy about me.

Last Nov I started going out with the 'new' girl again but had never really felt a strong attraction to her (how could normal compete with bat___crazy?)... .  BUT... .  as I got into my last recycle starting in December I began getting bored with the BPDgf and her 'problems' and found myself thinking about the normal girl.   This had never happened before.

So the normal girl and I have some history. We went dancing last Saturday night and had a great time and ended up in a rather torrid makeout session at the end of the night (never happened before).

The only thing preventing me from being with the normal girl a little more seriously is the crazy girl being involved in my life. 

But I am going to pursue the normal girl on a casual and slow basis because I think we have some chemistry now.

The only issue I have with seeing the normal girl is that I feel like I am the crazy person compared to her... .  not far from the truth... .  .

When I saw the T last week I told her I thought about the normal girl and the T said maybe you are changing to like "the normals."