Is NC in my best interest?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

For the most part, I've been maintaining NC with hwBPD even though he keeps texting me for a variety of reasons. He also includes mementos in my monthly support check, I believe to get me to re-engage.

I contacted my L office asking if they could 1.) contact H attorney and request he not text me and, 2.) set up an alternate way of receiving support checks. I'm not sure if they followed through because friday I got another text asking if conversation was still out of bounds. So I'm a little frustrated.

I'm trying to maintain the NC but wonder if at this point, I should talk with H to negotiate terms of divorce. Next month will be one year from the date he was served divorce papers and things aren't looking great for me. Our home has been our biggest investment; however, when H got an appraisal it was 150,000 less than one year prior. My hunch is H was there pointing out everything wrong with the place and exaggerating every little thing as well.

I posted before about the appraisal and after much consideration decided to get a second appraisal and be at peace with the outcome. I told my L that I did not want to try and buy out H (that was an option I considered) and wanted to go the second appraisal route. NOW L tells me he anticipates a new appraisal, if differs from first, may be contested which could be costly. I don't know why he didn't tell me that before.

At this point, I'm not sure if the NC is in my best interest. Maybe if I try to negotiate with H or at least find out what he has to offer, I can avoid the continual battle and legal cost.

[Awakecj]

For the most part, I've been maintaining NC with hwBPD even though he keeps texting me for a variety of reasons. He also includes mementos in my monthly support check, I believe to get me to re-engage.

I contacted my L office asking if they could 1.) contact H attorney and request he not text me and, 2.) set up an alternate way of receiving support checks. I'm not sure if they followed through because friday I got another text asking if conversation was still out of bounds. So I'm a little frustrated.

I'm trying to maintain the NC but wonder if at this point, I should talk with H to negotiate terms of divorce. Next month will be one year from the date he was served divorce papers and things aren't looking great for me. Our home has been our biggest investment; however, when H got an appraisal it was 150,000 less than one year prior. My hunch is H was there pointing out everything wrong with the place and exaggerating every little thing as well.

I posted before about the appraisal and after much consideration decided to get a second appraisal and be at peace with the outcome. I told my L that I did not want to try and buy out H (that was an option I considered) and wanted to go the second appraisal route. NOW L tells me he anticipates a new appraisal, if differs from first, may be contested which could be costly. I don't know why he didn't tell me that before.

At this point, I'm not sure if the NC is in my best interest. Maybe if I try to negotiate with H or at least find out what he has to offer, I can avoid the continual battle and legal cost.

[Matt]

I see two issues here:  how you move forward with the divorce, and how you communicate with him about non-divorce matters.

If he has BPD, or BPDish behaviors, and he hasn't been in treatment for a long time, it's probably not practical to negotiate directly with him.  You want to minimize your legal costs.  Maybe you can work out a plan with your attorney, so you do as much of the work as possible - figure out your proposal and other steps - but let the communication go through your attorney to the other attorney.  Make sure you are copied on everything, and make sure nothing goes to the other side without your approval first.

That's for divorce-related stuff.

For other stuff, if you don't want to communicate with him, you don't have to.  You can ignore all his texts, or maybe there's a way to block his texts - ask your phone carrier.  You can ask your attorney to ask his attorney to advise him that he shouldn't communicate directly with you.  You can probably get a restraining order;  maybe the message he needs to hear is, "If you continue to text CJ and send notes with your checks, she will get an RO preventing you from doing that."  A boundary.  Then be prepared to follow through if necessary - don't accuse him of anything he hasn't done, just tell the court, "I do not want to hear from him and he refuses to accept that so please tell him not to contact me."

Don't get these two issues confused.  Communicating about the divorce is necessary and can be handled through attorneys.  Communicating about other stuff is not necessary and is your choice.

[Awakecj]

Thanks Matt for identifying the two separate issues.

Regarding the divorce. I have strictly communicated through my attorney and H through his even though he kept pleading with me to talk & negotiate to avoid attorney costs. I believe H is primarily doing the work on his end because much of the stuff that comes through doesn't make sense but I've relied on my L because I'm dealing with hwBPD. Maybe I'm lazy but I don't have the energy to keep digging up stuff. I did a lot of work at the front end of the divorce and feel kind of beat down and very stuck (kicked out of the house by H's attorney and living with sister until divorce is complete). I'm tired of fighting a battle with H who's sense of right and wrong is skewed and thought if I listened to what he has to offer it might be easier. I don't think I'm a fighter and I'm sure H knows that.

Regarding communication. I checked options on my phone to block numbers but was unsuccessful so I will call the carrier and ask if there is a feature to do that. I thought the attorney might view my request about texting as non-divorce related but I relayed that I am feeling harassed by it so I thought they would act on my request. I like your approach to setting a boundary, thanks for the recommendation.

I have other issues going on right now as well that most likely are contributing to my feeling of being overwhelmed but I feel like throwing in the towel. I'm drowning, spent, and just done.

[Matt]

If he makes an offer, it's probably best to consider it carefully.  If it's way off of what you think is best, you can just reject it:  "Thank you for this offer but my client does not consider it helpful.  We will entertain an offer from you which is more in line with court guidelines."

If it's reasonable but not perfect, you can say that:  "Thank you for the offer.  We consider it helpful.  Please see if your client is willing to go further on Issue such-and-such.".  Or you can make a counter-offer, by changing just some of the parts that you don't agree with, and leaving the rest of their offer as is.

Or you can start from scratch:  "Thank you for the offer, but my client does not consider it a good starting point for discussions.  Enclosed please find an offer for your consideration."

Usually it's best to build on what the other side offers rather than start from scratch.

We all feel like throwing in the towel at some point, but it probably isn't really an option.  If the other side makes an offer that is pretty good, and you accept it with no changes at all, then you could save a lot of hassle and money.  But if you think that just caving on every issue will lead to a quick settlement, it probably won't - someone with BPD is likely to find other ways to drag the process out.  Make sure you are responding only to written proposals, or the process can go on forever.

[Awakecj]

The proposal from H was unreasonable. It included nickel and dime stuff and he went back over 10 years to bring up financial stuff so he wouldn't have to pay for half of the family debt.

Our case if fairly simple except for two things:

1. Our home was our only investment and the value of that is being disputed.

2. There is debt that is being disputed.

The appraisal he got on the house, as I mentioned, is so far below what it was appraised for last year. Of course he was in the guy's ear the whole time playing up whatever was "wrong" with the house.

My H inherited money from his grandfather over 10 years ago; however, he never told me how much. I thought he used all of it to help pay for kids college expenses (which he can't get back) but now he is claiming he used some of it to renovate our old house which increased the value and equity that we used to buy current house.

We separated in 2008 and during that time I accumulated some debt, some of it due to H's shenanigans. When we got back together, I nearly paid it off by myself; however, H insisted I pay half of EVERYTHING else as well such as, daughter's college, son's marriage/honeymoon, and a huge remodeling project. Of course I could have said no but he raged and bullied me into compliance. I couldn't manage it all so the debt increased. The law says he is responsible for half and he is fighting that tooth and nail.

Originally, my first L mentioned H didn't want to increase his monthly debt and she indicated there was talk of increasing his retirement payout to me. Back when I was speaking to H, I objected to that offer telling him I needed cash so I could purchase my own home. Now that he knows I wouldn't accept that he is doing all that he can to keep the cash from me.

At this point, from what my L says, it looks like H will have to come up with half the cost of debt which will be helpful but I was really counting on the equity of the house to get me into a new home, nothing like what I came from but my own home. Because of the appraisal issue, I may not get much at all so I wonder if a conversation with H about the retirement would be helpful at all. I'm just feeling desperate at this point.

[Matt]

How to get past the impasse on the value of the home:

If you truly believe the initial appraisal was wrong, say so.  "My client does not believe the appraisal done by X Company was accurate and unbiased."

Then offer an unbiased way to get a value.  For example, maybe "Each party will offer three appraisers, and choose one of the three proposed by the other side.  Those two appraisers will do appraisals supervised by both parties.  Then the appraisals will be averaged to get the agreed value of the home.  Both parties will be obligated to accept that value and pay half the cost of those two appraisals."

Or maybe you can come up with a simpler method.

Make a proposal to handle this issue which you believe is fair, and explain it to your attorney so she can explain it to the other attorney.

How to get past the impasse on debt:

Have your attorney explain to you what the law in your state says about this issue.  If the law is clear, then that should be your position:  "According to State Law Such-And-Such, the debt will be handled as follows... .  ".

But maybe the law isn't so clear.  Then analyze the different ways reasonable people could interpret it, and put those down in numbers - how each interpretation would work out in your case.  Offer a solution which is in the middle of those interpretations.

I had one like this:

I had received a large bonus after we separated - about one year's pay.  Since my wife had already filed for divorce, this bonus wasn't received during the period of community property;  it should be all mine.

But the other side argued that even though I got the bonus after we separated, it was earned mostly while we were together.  So it should be considered mostly community property.

The law in my state was kind of complicated and unclear.  My lawyer told me if we went to trial on this issue, we might win, but probably not.  She offered a deal that was about 3/4 the way they wanted (all the bonus should be community property) and 1/4 the way I wanted (it's all mine).  The other side said OK;  they figured if it went to trial they would win on this issue, but the cost of the trial was more than 1/4 the amount being disputed.

See if you can figure out the debt issue - who would probably win if it went to trial, and what the $ implications would be if each side got their way.  Then propose a settlement that is aligned with what you figure out about it.  If the other side doesn't accept that proposal, or make a counter-proposal you think is reasonable, you go to trial on the issue.

[Rose1]

Is there something he really doesn't want you to touch? ie 401k? Go for it. He will likely try to protect "his possession" and may give up some other stuff. BTW sounds like a possibility that his inheritance became co-mingled funds. Not sure if that matters in your state, it might.

Basically I have found out that a BPD considers everything as theirs, only some things more theirs than others and will sometimes make mistakes in their eagerness to protect "their" favourite current flavour of the month possession. In my exBPD's case it was a new business he was starting up (which I knew he wouldn't keep going long term) and was very emotionally entangled with - I said if he didn't lay off I would go for half as I was entitled to it since I had supported him. He backed off.

[Awakecj]

 

How to get past the impasse on the value of the home:

Make a proposal to handle this issue which you believe is fair, and explain it to your attorney so she can explain it to the other attorney.

Matt, thanks for all the suggestions. I am supposed to have the best lawyer in town but it seems my H attorney is the aggressive one.

I wonder if the money recently invested in the remodel would make a difference, it cost over 70,000.

[Awakecj]

Is there something he really doesn't want you to touch? ie 401k? Go for it. He will likely try to protect "his possession" and may give up some other stuff. BTW sounds like a possibility that his inheritance became co-mingled funds. Not sure if that matters in your state, it might.

Basically I have found out that a BPD considers everything as theirs, only some things more theirs than others and will sometimes make mistakes in their eagerness to protect "their" favourite current flavour of the month possession. In my exBPD's case it was a new business he was starting up (which I knew he wouldn't keep going long term) and was very emotionally entangled with - I said if he didn't lay off I would go for half as I was entitled to it since I had supported him. He backed off.

I've got to think about what he favors and maybe use it as a bargaining tool - great advice. He does have a 401k but I'll get half of that and he knows that. Regarding co-mingled funds, yes it does matter in our state. He has tried to prove some of the inheritance was used to increase the value of our last home but his documentation is pretty weak so I don't feel too threatened by it.