I'm so sick of validating

[Parents! Get help here!]

Sometimes the things that need validating are so REDICULOUS and I'm tired of " I hear your upset, frustrated... .  blah blah blah blah... .  "

I just don't want to do it any more.

The. End.

[almostvegan]

Sometimes the things that need validating are so REDICULOUS and I'm tired of " I hear your upset, frustrated... .  blah blah blah blah... .  "

I just don't want to do it any more.

The. End.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[MammaMia]

almostvegan... .  you made me laugh!   Thank you SO much... .  it has been waaaaay too long.

[almostvegan]

Glad to have brought a smile to your day! Though it was really just a little " Argh" moment I'm glad my venting served a " higher" purpose.

My point was I really just sometimes want to say" grow up. Shut up. The world isn't peachy and sometimes things just SUCK"! So have another laugh: imagine saying that to a BPD! Duck and cover! Incomiiiiiiiing!

BOOM



AV

[frustratedmom]

AV -

When I think about what I would rather say... .  ... .  and sometimes I do say, but with more wisemindishness?

And I know she hears me... .  whether she wants to or not!

FM

[lostchild]

almostvegan,

I love this post .  Our lives tend to be soo serious this made me smile   I agree wholeheartedly with both posts.  I don't want to do it anymore either.  I am getting too old for this stuff (and it never seems to end)!

I just turned 60 and my BPD son will be forty one this year.  I am too tired to even try anymore.  My mom was mentally ill and my sister also, as is my nephew.

Anyway, your sense of humor is like a breath of fresh air!

Thank you so much for the smiles,

lostchild

[vivekananda]

lostchild you and I have so much in common!

dd32, me 60. BPD mum and sister (at least one), BPD nephew x 3 probably, BPD niece x 1 probably (total nieces and nephews in both families 30+). BPD cousins on both sides hubby's and mine and one very dangerous, murderous NPD cousin. What fun it all is.

Just had a neighbour with a 'difficult' personality visit. I knew I should have been validating - but I didn't! I told him instead that I disagreed with him and watched him back step. Huh! It didn't hurt.

But he isn't dd. She's the one who counts (well most times  )

Shut up. The world isn't peachy and sometimes things just SUCK"! ... .  Duck and cover! Incomiiiiiiiing!

BOOM

yay 

but can I say, seriously though... .  a person who validates is a loving, kind, gentle person - the sort I want in my life and I want to be like that... .  I want it to be my default response instead of my non validating judgemental responses - and that is what I am working toward. Am I a party pooper now?

Vivek  

[lbjnltx]

Yes Vivek  you are a party pooper... .  poop away  

[mikmik]

I think the whole validating thing was great in the beginning, because it seemed to work, and it put out a raging fire to only smoking.  It saved us for a piece of time.  But, it was a tool used to stop something in a moment of desparation, perhaps.  And perhaps because we are trying to manipulate the situation, it does not feel honest or sincere?  And becasue of that, it is difficult to embody?

I resent validating all the stupid, silly, frustrating things.  But, when ViveK brings it back around, it is how I would want to be treated by others as well.  I guess we have all been pushed so far by the pwBPD in our lives that it is hard to find compassion for them (resentment yes, compassion, no).  And I think validation only works if you have compassion for the person.  Just think of your best friend going through a horrid situation.  You sit with her, hold her hand, brush away her tears, and feel for her.  It is easy and natural, because you care and have compassion for her.  I don't know if I have compassion any more for my dd.  Just a void, just exhaustion, just empty.  None of it is easy.  Nothing feel natural.

How do we get the compassion back for our kids?  I don't even know where to begin to look, or how to start.  If my heart was full again, I think I could do it all.

mik

[sam-99]

I was thinking about this last night (you guys are in my head).  I did't know what valadating was a month ago except in relation to a parking ticket.     Now as you say I am finding it a useful tool.  But, as was mentioned it is not the natural thing for me to say and does feel a little fake.  I would always like to say something different like I would to the average person. 

But, I did have a nice experience myself recently.  Someone validated me.  And I noticed, and I liked it.  It made me feel really good to hear someone say that they knew we 'were going through a lot lately'.  I do believe I gave a little sigh of relief that someone understood, at least a little.  So I got a taste of the power of validation.  It is like a little gift we can give others, not just our BPD loved ones.  And there is supposed to be more happiness in giving... .  I hope I can hold on to that view... .  but you guys have been in the game a long time... .  Wish I could say something encouraging to you.  Sounds like its time for a little R & R!  My best coping skill is to run away and do something fun.  It is my reset.  I love it!  It is a good time of year for a hike! I am ready!

[lbjnltx]

Validating can be work, it can be tiresome, it can get frustrating.

We need to be mindful that it is not the things they do or the thoughts they have that we are to validate... .  it is the emotions that drive their thoughts and actions that we validate.

Validating is less of a burden when it is authentic... .  as mikmik mentions... .  compassion is what drives authentic validation. If we are validating to affect change then it can be manipulative which causes us more pain because it doesn't work.  Authentic validation is a selfless act of love. It provides an opportunity for relationship building rooted in trust... .  from this, positive change can occur for both parties.  

We are here to be validated in our pain, we validate each other with compassion. The hope is that when we are heard and understood we can process our feelings and understand our thoughts and behaviors.  From this place of understanding we can begin to be less emotionally thought driven and achieve a state of wisemind so that we are in a balanced mental/emotional state and can learn skills to improve ourselves, our relationships with our BPDchildren/adult children, and have a positive affect on them.  

It goes back to what qcarol often refers to from the book "I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better"... .  validation begins with self.  It is up to us to replace the frustration with skills and allow the pain to be authentically expressed through validation as compassion.  

 

This is hard work

[lostchild]

Vivek ,

It's good to know always that although our lives can be very chaotic and filled with sorrow, we can still smile and laugh now and then.  Thank you for your post.

You are not a party pooper, just a compassionate, gentle, kind person.  I honor that.  My son is lashing out right now and we are basically no contact.  I came home from work yesterday to a message from him saying that because his dad is not around (never has been) that I am the head of this family and it is up to me to fix all that is wrong.  I cannot respond. 

I have listened and responded to his despair most of his life.  He has a serious substance abuse problem(pot), is selling some of his meds and is not speaking to anyone in his family.  He is writing nasty notes to his stepsister (who he never even sees), fighting with his half brother and texting angry messages to his only sister. 

I have not judged him as only God can do that in my eyes.  I have suggested repeatedly that he quit smoking pot or at the very least cut back.  He has a 7 year old son who I went to deliver a birthday present to last Friday.  I knock and my grandson asks who it is.  He opens the door to me and I ask, "Where is daddy"?  "Outside," is the response.  My son is outside in the freezing cold (we live in New Hampshire) smoking pot on the second floor porch while his 7 year old waits inside.  I gave my grandson a hug and a kiss and told him that I love him and left.  I have not heard from my son except for nasty texts and phone calls. 

I am concerned as he says he might as well be dead and has 4 suicide attempts in his past.  I am thinking about calling my t and asking for her advice.  Should I call someone? his T's office?

I don't know anymore  

I don't mean to turn what started out as a smile bringing post into something so sad and serious.  I just am tired and don't know what to do.  It is sad that our lives are filled with alot of grief. Then again maybe we are chosen by God to be the families of these special people, because he knows that we are compassionate,caring people.

Any thoughts?

lostchild 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[frustratedmom]

Vivek  MikMik Mary

Compassion is a funny thing... .  when we get kicked in the teeth too many times it gets harder to maintain. If the dog were biting us repeatedly, we would get have it put down, right? Lol.

I think there are those of us for whom the validation path is more obvious, and therefore more authentically pursued, making the results more direct and easier to obtain.

For instance, when pwBPD's are presenting emotionally, like anger or frustration about an event or subject, it may be easier to see how to validate because it is usually fear that is making them angry. However if they are angry about something you "did" or "did not" do, making it more personal, then it is much trickier isn't it... .  the dog is biting you while you are trying to calm it down!

Validation changes, or seems to become much more complex for those of us who have fleeting relationships with our pwBPD's, and since they are not, and seem to not to care to be, in our lives on a daily basis. These hermit crabs come out unexpectedly, often demanding things we cannot give, like money or drugs, and then scurry back in their holes when we don't comply. And even though we try, repeatedly, to find common ground to be authenticly validating, they don't like the values or the judgement that they think comes with a denial of what they want.

And, to make matters worse, you both don't know, and really don't want to know, exactly what has been going on in their daily lives to feel authentic when you try to validate, so the whole effort seems hollow.

Example: my dd19 has not communicated for more than a week, after the major debacle with my dh, a misunderstood "budget", and a definite "no" (said in a validating and supportive way). Yesterday she posted a photo on FB of herself half naked, giant pregnant belly, pants almost off, in a room that was a hovel. It made me sick to my stomach for lots of reasons, including one of the comments from a former 40 year old online hook up "You look so sexy babe! Let's get together!"

I shouldn't look at FB I know!... .  and I have made no comment about it. What would I say?

"It's good to see you standing up!"

"You must feel so proud that none of your FB friends has a belly like that to show off!"

"Wow you are very pregnant!"

Actually there isn't anything to say, validating or not, because she has not directed anything to me for a response. So we wait, and hope there is communication that we can actually be a part of to validate or not!

FM




FM

[almostvegan]

I agree validating can be. Great way to defuse a situation and a great way to show support.

And yes it's hard work.

Sometimes though it drains me and I just want to put my head down and cry. It's never ending. It's not like ok I solved a problem it's over.  It's like I put a small bandage on a gushing wound and  waiting till it opens again. Validating is a great temporary tool.

I wish my d would have taken DBT seriously and learned the skills to cope. Then I wouldn't feel like its all an uphill battle every day. Then the validation wouldn't be such a dreaming chore.

That's really what I meant. I think. Maybe.  ( smile)

Peace everyone

AV

[cfh]

Having learned the good validating can do I also got so sick of doing it.  Sometimes I just wanted to scream "because I said so!".

But now that ds is in jail I am so frustrated and I wish I could validate but I can't because most of what he says is in his letters. 

It's not like I can read the letter then run to the phone and call.  We have to wait for him to call us and then we have to limit it to 15 minutes because each call is $17.  What a ripoff.  Price of BPD keeps going up.

And when he does call he's very nice and so happy to talk to us that there isn't such a need to validate.

But he lets it rip in his letters and there is nothing I can do.  By the time he gets a letter from me the fight is long over and we're onto something new.

 

[vivekananda]

Ok, here goes... .  When I developed a deeper experience of what validation means to me, it involved a paradigm shift in thinking. It was as if I had been trying to start off in my car in 4th gear and always stalling, to learn how to put it into first. Validation was my way into being able to put all I was learning into practice to bring about a change in myself. Then I picked up on acceptance... .  radical acceptance as I learnt from people here.

mikmik, I believe hear what you say and I am so sorry. I hope this can make some sense for you. I have read The Reality Slap (Harris) and this is a very brief explanation of 'self-compassion'. Think of it like a calculation (I will use his words and try to explain them) C + D + E + K = Self compassion. C + D + E = mindfulness, so mindfulness + kindness = self compassion.

Connection – connection means to be totally connected with the present and the world around us. I explain connection to myself as being in touch with and open to the universe in the immediacy of the moment.

Defusion - to defuse our thoughts and emotions is the purpose here. It requires being able to stand aside from ourselves while understanding what we are experiencing. I know this as detachment, letting go of ego.

Expansion – most of us are familiar with the concept of acceptance and radical acceptance, expansion encompasses these ideas. Expansion allows ourselves to let go of the idea of controlling our world or being controlled by our world.

Kindness - no explanation needed.

To practise self-compassion means to meet our unmet emotional needs. The hard thing for me was to recognise what my unmet emotional needs were. When I did recognise them, I could deal with them compassionately. Well good enough for someone still learning how to drive!

So when dd does something I don't like and disapprove of (not that I see it anymore, too much n/c), then I recognise that is my unmet emotional need, perhaps fear and anxiety, that needs addressing.

For me validation requires me to be in touch with me (mindfulness, self-compassion) so I can be able to cope with the unmet emotional needs of others and validate them.

Of course, I do get tired of learning to drive all the time, so I stop quite a lot and rest. The point is, it's me first - I have to change. I need to become the person I want to be. Check out my avatar - within that idea there is irony, double irony and triple irony... .  Oh, by the by, I am re-examining my values now after reading that book!

[vivekananda]

ps I want to practise validation enough so it becomes my default position, unlike the usual 'judgemental' responses that make up my default. I want to be able to keep my mouth shut and to listen. I want to learn how not to respond. I want to learn how to let  of the need to hear my own voice. Thank god I have you hear so I can 'talk' interruptedly and tell you what to do   if I didn't have you helping me meet my need for that, I would be suffering 

 

[mikmik]

ViveK, FM, AV, and cfh,

I think the whole idea, as ViveK presents it, is that we must must must rememeber to put ourselves first, in a positive way.  That is why I, for one, get on empty.  It happens when I don't tend to my needs, my alarms, by inner voice.  It is easier to keep boundaries, give back, and accept when I am "full".  It appears it is just as easy for me to get off track as it is for dd to get off track.  All of this takes practice and work, and effort, and thought.  I just have to learn to read myself better, and acknowledge the signs when I am getting too tired.  Then it is time for a sauna, a cup of tea, anything that is just for me.  We all need that tender self care, radical self care as Reality says time and time again.  And, I (we) have to accept that doing that is not a bad thing.  Thanks to you all.

mik

[vivekananda]

ah mik, you are so caring, so kind and gentle. Take good care of yourself.

Cheers,

viv   

[Peaceinthehome]

Hi All

Thanks for all the posts. I too am running a little on emtpy at the moment. My daughter who is in recovery from addiction and in my opinion UBPD, is the most needy, insecure, low self esteemed little creature under our little rock.  I get tired of being the person she constantly turns to for validation and reassurance.  It is draining. lately she has been having panic attacks in the middle of the night, convinced someone is trying to break into her home, she arrives at my house covered in snot and tears and shaking uncontrollably and then wants to lapse into what a ~ her boyfriend is for not coming to her rescue and calling her crazy, all this at 2am.  Then there is the constant dripping tap relationship break ups with her boyfriend which goes round and round and round.  She totally bases her wellbeing on whether the boyf is doing all the right things or not.  Interestingly enough, on a good day, she is cock-sure of herself and can tackle the world.  Mental illness is not a walk in the park.

Right now I am under enormous work pressure and feel like I could spontaneously combust.

My son has ADD, a chronic pot smoker and stealing his father blind. Luckily I dont have to stick my head into that hornets nest.  My ex has never read up an iota on anything so he is the classic enabler.

Thanks for listening and allowing me a venting space.  I go to Al-anon and know the drill but today I just felt like having a moan

[MammaMia]

Peaceinthehome -

I have been where you are and thought I would lose my mind.  The position I had for 43 years in the medical field was one of high responsibility, and because I had been there so long, I was the person who could fix anything for anyone as well as constantly dole out advice... .  and, of course, do 3 times the work of anyone else.   When I retired 2 years ago, my responsibilities were split between 5 people.   All this was all going on while dealing with my BPD son and other family issues. Looking back, I do not know how I did what I did... .  but I would NOT do it again.  It almost destroyed me physically and emotionally.  I was divorced and needed the income.  My job was also solace from the craziness in my home and I loved it... .  but I was burning out in both places.  Fortunately I was old enough to take early retirement... .  so I did.  It saved my life and sanity.

My BPD son was sent to prison for felony DUI.  After his release, I was aware he was living at a group home in our city but he was NC.  The day I retired he left the group home and re-entered my life. The timing was pure coincidence, he was not aware of my plans and vice versa.   He now lives fairly independently in a family-owned home... we both know he could NEVER live with me. 

While he tries so hard to be independent, the rollercoaster ride continues, just not as frequently.  However, this time around I am more prepared to deal with him thanks to NAMI, this website, and other similar resources ... .  AND I have more time and certainly less stress in my life.

I wish you luck on trying to juggle all of your responsibilities.  It is not easy, especially when you have no one to help.

Your xh needs to step up to the plate and help you share the emotional burden.  Sounds like he needs to be educated about BPD and ADD... .  and if that fails, you might consider reducing your workload and seeking financial help from him to compensate you for the time you need to spend with your ill children. 

My heart goes out to you.  You are between a rock and a hard place, and I am sorry. 

[Aging Dad]

Feeling worn out and sad today...I decided to return here for support and some mental relief.
I am about to turn 68, remarried and have been a compassionate and loving dad all my life.

My daughter recently, after many stays at long stay mental facilities, told us she has BPD. Since coming home (250 miles from me), her demeanor to me has become caustic.We have had several discussions online but whenever I think I am on the right page with her...I step on a mine field. Asking her to help me understand why she is so angry with me is no help or place of discovery of what she thinks if me. She used to be 'daddy's girl', but now I think I am the reason she stays angry. Accusations of abandonment, family issues and I caused her trauma because I got cancer and was not near her. OIYYYYY! No empathy.

So, I have this great friend who is a psychiatrist who has been helping me understand why she thinks like she does. The 'validating' issue has become more prevalent with my talks with him now. I am not a hard ass by any means and have normal feelings of love for both my kids. I am struggling with the manner of soothing her with empathy and understanding to the extent of my own mental health is taking a hit. It does not feel right to coddle and always saying how you understand how she was hurt by some (unknown) issue and at some point I really feel she is using this diagnosis to be mean spirited and cruel to me. Where does respect for dad and others take the back seat? How can I stay on the path of sympathy...I am up front and open about my feelings, well cuz I'm a real Yankee, and it seems fake to act other than respectful and loving. At one point I was fed up and told her life' was not all about her and others are being hurt' with her demeanor. That is her history since a young child...everything had to be centered around her for some unknown reason. That is when all hell broke loose and we cut off the talk. I want to see a solution that she will go along with but can't see it. Talks go back and forth and seem to be going well at the time...then the big ass shoe drops on my head.

Thanks for listening to me vent in my time of despair.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Aralia]

Aging Dad, I really truly understand where you are coming from. Have you considered taking the Family Connections seminars offered by the NEABPD? There is good resource material on their website. The more you learn about the condition, the more you will be able to understand your daughter's thought process and why validation is an important part of successfully communicating with her.

Also I think you should copy your post and post it separately as a new post so more ppl see it. This is all new to you, it must be a bit of a shock. It is good that you found these boards---everyone is very supportive.

[KBug]

OMG, yes!  I just want to scream, "For f**cks sake, grow up and take responsibility for your own actions," but I don't.

Validating doesn't work for us very well. I'm not doing it in the way that she can hear. When I say things like. "That sounds really difficult," etc., she accuses me of patronizing her. If I'm calm as she's yelling, she tell me that just because I'm not yelling doesn't mean I'm right to which I respond, "I know."  I keep doing it because I'm not going to throw any more emotionally baggage on her inferno. Validating doesn't seem to calm things down but it sometimes keeps things from escalating. Sometimes it helps me to image throwing Xanax in her mouth as she is screaming at me. The screaming is mostly over since she no longer lives with us and we will either ask her to leave or leave ourselves when she starts to become verbally abusive.

[Sancho]

This is a fantastic post. I found 'validating' really hard to understand and didn't get on to it because if felt false. Then I found my own way was:

- greystone rock ie don't respond if I can't think of anything genuine to say
-validate with a general statement eg 'It is hard to cope when the pressure is on'. I never make it personal eg I understand you are hurting. I don't do this because when I tried it it just added fuel to the fire 'How can YOU understand!

I think validating this way is easier when you have 'let go'. It is easier to greystone rock when you have come to the point where you are not looking to 'fix it' or do anything much except be there.

Thanks for all these posts and especially the first! It made me think about it a lot!

[Sycamorecreek]

Thank you thank you thank you! This is my first time writing and I’m not sure if it’ll be in the right place as my phone makes seeing the formatting here difficult. I’m usually too wordy but feeling wrung out and out of words.I think I’m finally giving in to accepting what is. My 19 yo dd just called and blamed me again for her emergency hospitalization (recommended by her docs. She had a snap while away from home). Right now I’m fed up with her false memories, inability to see her own actions and blame. Her dad (my ex) is ubpd. I feel frequently invalidated and abused despite ongoing efforts to validate them. This post made me giggle AND feel understood.

[river girl]

I am getting the biggest kick out of y’all and simultaneously overwhelmed because…..we have a 17 year old. I am new to validating as a more consistent response. I find that it brings things down. However, my understanding is that ppl with BPD improve with age. Y’all are talking about your 30 and 40 somethings!

 Honestly, I can’t do this for that long. I know I won’t. I have set my sights on offering support into her early 20s or until she has gotten some education and a job. I just want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and say, “you did what you could.” I already feel myself letting go. She was never as severe as some kids can get, but she’s done some crazy, dangerous stuff.

  Then again, I don’t judge any parents that are still losing sleep and feeling the constant nag of despair. I pray for all of us. I certainly don’t know what the future holds for us. I am taking to heart all the wise words about self care. I just don’t think it’s fair to my husband and other daughters to give myself wholly to this forever. Strangely, when I do things for myself or others and she sees how that is received, she seems to notice how others see me. I like to think that gives her pause…. But I really don’t know. Hang in there my peeps and thanks for the support!

[Hiitsme]

Yes   I have a 19 yo and I've been working  hard to be validating and less argumentative but today I was driving her to her psych appt in the snow and before we even got out of the driveway she complained that my dry hands made an annoying sound and I needed to stop moving them so much.  oh Lord let me not murder her and validate how hard it must be to hear my dry hands make noise after I did her laundry, made her food and paid her copay.

Too.much?

[Tangled mangled]

Hiitsme
I don’t know how you managed to not snap at your 19o. making such judgements.
Mine are still young and my ds8 has learned not to back chat or moan unnecessarily because I have promised I have a magic wand that will make him my maid full time especially during this holidays !
Mums like you are made of metal stuff I swe**. I do understand the dynamics are different when they become teenagers and early 20s. God help!