My ex knows he can't accept love- it helps, might help you

[maria1]

Hi all

I just posted this on detaching but can't help wondering if it might help on this board too. I have some contact with my ex who has BPD traits. We split last May after a 10 month r/s. I was NC for 3 months but am ok with some minimal contact now. I have my boundaries better defined and he works hard to respect them. I respect his effort.

He emailed me the other day  after not hearing from him since before Christmas. Just hi- hope you're OK, it's cold.

I have been going through a r/s break up with someone who accused me of pushing him away and I was finding it very hard to really confront the stuff in my new r/s that was upsetting me. It got me thinking. I never confronted stuff properly with BPDex; I am not good at doing it in intimate relationships.

I emailed and asked my BPDex why he had ended our r/s. Yes I know I took a risk and I know I could have got any number of different answers. But I needed something from him, and he gave it to me. At the time of the split the reason kept changing and he was seeing someone else anyway. I want to share with you what he replied now because it helps me and I think it may help some of you. My ex doesn't understand BPD but he does understand that he cannot let love too close. I include my question:

Me:

Hiya

You said once I could ask you anything so... .  

Why did you end our relationship?

Was it something I did or didn't do?

I don't ask to try and fix you and me-I know we are way past that. I'm asking because I am trying to fix myself and I never really asked you why. I mean, I did at the time but the answer you gave kept changing then and you were with (replacement's name) anyway.

Hope you're doing ok.

Him:

Because you loved me. It's that simple. You loved me, so I pushed you away. When I was with you, everything was perfect. The whole fit was just perfect between you & me. You were beautiful, you looked after me, we had the same interests, the sex was fantastic, I loved your kids. It's classic behaviour. It's like I had to treat you like ~, otherwise you wouldn't walk away. That (replacement's name) thing was a total disaster! But hey, better to have loved & lost... .  

That's the total honest truth. Hope it helps

It's what I've always known and why I have resisted recycles but managed to accept him as he is and move on in my healing (still getting there, working on me). I know he can never love me properly because of his inability to let people close. He told me right from the start he pushes people he loves away. He used to describe me as the last one standing. Even as he left me to be with replacement it looked like it was killing him to hurt me.

His admission is quite unBPD like. His description of pushing away the intimacy describes exactly an attachment disorder.

Poor man. Don't worry- I'll never go back but compassion and understanding help us both.

[mitti]

Hi Maria1, 

Thank you for posting your ex's reply. It did help to read it, so clearly. My uBPDbf, possibly ex, we don't really know where we stand at the moment, has always told me he is scared of intimacy, pretty much the same way you describe your x when you were together, but to read it in your post just made it seem that much clearer. So sad they can't accept love. I used to think my bf was in a better position to get helped, and he has sought T for himself, but I am no longer sure it is something he can combat. Every time he has tried, and we were in T for almost a year with a BPD specialist, it gets to a point where it is to painful and scary for him.

Mitti

[maria1]

Hi Mitti- glad it helps to read it- quite a big decision to post as I'm quoting something very personal from him but I really did think there is so much pain on these boards of people trying to get through to the other side of something which may ultimately be almost impossible to get to.

For me I know I can't get through to the other side of my ex's attachment disorder because he knows he can't, even though he doesn't have a name for it except depression. So I have no hope of him transforming and changing. I have no hope of me changing so that I want to be in a r/s with him. That really has helped me detach and I've managed to do that whilst maintaining a little contact which has probably helped both of us.

I value stuff about him and I value what we can give each other at times. But I need to value myself and find what I need from myself.

I'm so sorry for your situation. It must feel dreadful to get to a point of what feels like breakthrough to just pull back again. Hope you are managing to look after YOU x

[mitti]

Thanks for sharing. I understand your thinking twice about posting it. I have often felt the same about posting personal stuff here and feel sometimes it is not fair to my bf but then again I have always been attempting to help the both of us.

Everybody's story one these boards is heartbreaking. I am glad to read though that you seem to have reached a point where you have accepted where the two of you are. For years I fought for my r/s, with little to no help from my bf. All he could do was to go through his push pull and tell me how panicky he felt. Then he decided he wanted to be in the r/s and really worked hard on himself and made significant progress and was able to change some of his disordered behavior. But then we had a crisis and he is again experiencing panic, feeling the need to push me away, not as badly as before though. And I don't know if it is just a setback or if it is time to give up.

I am taking care of myself a lot better than before. I am in T and it is helping. I am able to be without him and if this is the end I will be alright. I am just so sad if I will be losing the love of my life.

[maria1]

I'm so sorry Mitti- I still feel like my ex is the love of my life. But I was lucky I got out when I did and my children saved me from destroying myself. My ex has such an emptiness inside him and loved me in such a way that I do believe he wanted me to die loving him. He used to tell me he would die for me.

It's such a destructive disorder. It's important to share the positives too- they don't seem to last that long. Wishing you strength and peace as you move forward x

[mitti]

Thank you!   I am sorry that you have had to experience this kind of destructive r/s in your life too. My bf used to tell he felt empty inside too, that he wasn't sure who he was and this was early on in our 4-year r/s. In CT about 6 months ago when he was yet again back in the honey moon stage he said it scared him how dependent of me he felt and that he wasn't sure where he ended and I began. That was an eye-opener into how scary it is for him to love and be loved. So extremely sad that they should destroy what is security for most other people.

[maria1]

One time when I asked him why he ended it before the final ending he said 'because i was starting to rely on you and I can't have that'

These stories are so similar. It's interesting for me that I can feel for your pain and remember my own but I don't feel sad any more. I don't feel a physical high when he contacts me or fear. I do think I've managed to detach. But I still care about him and respect that he tries every day when it is so hard.

[mitti]

Yes, it is uncanny how similar all of our stories are. My bf has said exactly the same things to me, he can't accept that he is dependent on me. I am glad for you that you have come so far, that you have detached and I know I am not there, yet. Sometimes I want to be and sometimes I want us to be able to work it out still.  And I have no idea how to make a decision. I can't stay there forever.

[maria1]

My tipping point was easy because he pushed me so far away I had no choice. But at the same time he couldn't bear me going.

My children saved me too. Their father is a drinker and I didn't want them to have any more dysfunction in their lives. I need to model healthy to them and I was starting to unravel in front of them.

I suppose you will get there when you get there. I think there will come a time when you sense a world outside of this- when you remember the possibility of a you before this relationship. I sniffed that wind and it felt exciting- it felt more appealing than staying with the madness- so when he pushed I at least felt some positive feelings about a life without him.

I'm sure you are getting wherever you need to be.

[patientandclear]

Maria, hi!  Thanks so much for posting this, & thanks to your ex for sharing it, even if he doesn't know how mnay people he may help by having done so.

This helps me. As you know this has also been my sense of what goes on with my uBPDex, with whom I am still carrying on n intimate friendship.  But almost every time we see each other (& it's always great, as it always has been w/us), he ratchets up to an intense level of communication & then disappears or backs way off for a while. At first he would explain this almost in break-up terms ("I need to clarify w/you that I am only interested in friendship" now he just goes away, coming back when the bad feeling ebbs.

Much as I understand that closeness threatens him, this pull-back still hurts, so reading your ex's explanation of what caused him to push you away really helps.

[maria1]

Hi P&C! 

I've followed your 'staying' story with interest. I'm very glad if this helps you. I admire the strength you are utilising in staying. In our interactions I have tended to concentrate on keeping my ex at a certain emotional distance so I've not felt the push/ pull in the same way but the dynamics of coming and going are the same. I feel it much less.

I hope things are becoming less intense for you and you are looking after yourself 

[benny2]

I use to hear all the time how he did not want to bring me into his nightmare. I thought he was making up excuses not to be with me. Now I know, it was not excuses, he really lives a nightmare.

[maria1]

What is important here is that this man is telling me he is unlovable. He told me this over and over again when we were together.

Why oh why oh why do we choose to love people who cannot accept our love? That's the money question- that's where the change lies. I think for me it's because I didn't feel my father's love as a child. Not hugely, not abusively, just calmly and quietly- I didn't matter in the eyes of my father. EVERYBODY else was more important.

So here I am, deeply in love with a man who loves me deeply and constantly triangulates me with other people. Constantly tells me 'you're the best maria'. Goes off, tries out those other women and comes back to me 'you're still the best maria'. It's you, YOU MATTER, I SEE YOU.

I don't believe him of course but boy does it feel great to hear it. Mean time he's hanging there, unable to love or be loved because his own father walked out the door when he was 7 years old having spent the years since his birth beating his mother black and blue.

We repeat the patterns of love we learn as children. We often don't even recognise what they are. Sometimes we don't want to recognise them because we can't believe them. How can I admit my father didn't love me? I have to go and see him in his care home later- he can't speak or walk, just looks at me and smiles, with love I think. He looks at everyone like that. And he doesn't want me to leave him on his own.

I just hijacked my own thread with a ramble. I just want to help with your undecided-ness. Because helping you decide helps me heal- limbo is a painful, exhausting place to be.

[mitti]

I didn't feel my father's love as a child. Not hugely, not abusively, just calmly and quietly- I didn't matter in the eyes of my father. EVERYBODY else was more important.

This is exactly the same for me. Everybody else was more important. My sisters were more important. The only time I got attention, and not even then always, was when I achieved. So I became a perfectionist being the toughest judge myself, never letting good enough be enough. The thing with my bf is that he is different from any previous man in my life... .  but still it turned out the same in a way.

And like yours he feels he is unlovable. He has told me that many times he hates himself. I used to think I by loving him I would somehow convince him there was no condition involved in the way I feel about him. I had no idea that that would be what would set us up for failure.

[maria1]

And we can't fix ourselves by repeating those same patterns. It feels so much like the answer though! Sending you a hug Mitti- you will get there. Awareness of the pattern is a huge step I think 

[mitti]

Thank you Maria1, 

I just wish I knew what to do though. We were in T together and he was able to make so many changes to how he reacted and behaved, as did I. Should I therefore stay or will it never get any better than this. I am still undecided and I can't be any longer.

[maria1]

Can it get better for both of you with you apart? I really think my ex and I aren't good for each other because we fit so well with our FOO stuff.

If you decide to stay does it feel like you are permanently undecided?

[mitti]

I think he felt we would be better apart when he left me 2 years ago. We were apart for 7 months with him having split me the darkest shade of black. When he came back all was different for him. He has never recycled anybody and not getting over me was huge for him. He made a commitment to stay in the r/s and he has.

He suggested CT for us and was totally committed to doing the work. We do have a dilemma and we are at a stalemate at how to solve it. Truthfully this is what has been causing the crises we have been through since back together. I have been moving towards feeling undecided since Xmas when he made plans to spend Xmas apart from me behind my back. I felt it was just getting worse and I was becoming increasingly uncertain about whether we are experiencing a setback or whether we had reached the limit as to what is possible.

If things don't get any better than this, than I would probably feel permanently undecided. This is so far from acceptable for me. But all in all our r/s has been better than this, so I felt sure that this was just a phase and we would soon be out of it.

[maria1]

It must be very hard to feel something is unacceptable but stay.

I can't help thinking if he is choosing something that you cannot accept then you are actually both choosing to be apart really but not wanting to accept that because the pain of separation is too great.

In a way we have to consciously choose pain in order to leave and that is alien. If you are going to be together in the end then you are going to be together in the end.

You have to make this decision for you and NOT for him. It's easy to say that I know, so, so difficult to do.

[mitti]

When something is unacceptable, how long do you stay? All of us accept unacceptable for a time but if there's no change we need to move on. That's where I am at.

Exactly, choosing the pain of separation feels alien so you stay and hope and work for some kind of improvement. The one thing I feel sure of now though is that however I choose it will be for me.

Thank you so much for your support 

[maria1]

I appreciate the incredibly hard place you are in. Not sure I can ever fully turn away from my ex although I do know I have to set strict limitations for myself on what we can be to each other. That has helped me. Good luck with it all 

[Cardinals in Flight]

What is important here is that this man is telling me he is unlovable. He told me this over and over again when we were together.

Why oh why oh why do we choose to love people who cannot accept our love? That's the money question- that's where the change lies. I think for me it's because I didn't feel my father's love as a child. Not hugely, not abusively, just calmly and quietly- I didn't matter in the eyes of my father. EVERYBODY else was more important.

So here I am, deeply in love with a man who loves me deeply and constantly triangulates me with other people. Constantly tells me 'you're the best maria'. Goes off, tries out those other women and comes back to me 'you're still the best maria'. It's you, YOU MATTER, I SEE YOU.

I don't believe him of course but boy does it feel great to hear it. Mean time he's hanging there, unable to love or be loved because his own father walked out the door when he was 7 years old having spent the years since his birth beating his mother black and blue.

We repeat the patterns of love we learn as children. We often don't even recognise what they are. Sometimes we don't want to recognise them... .  

I just hijacked my own thread with a ramble. I just want to help with your undecided-ness. Because helping you decide helps me heal- limbo is a painful, exhausting place to be.

Wow maria, just WOW.  If I changed a couple of key players, I could have written every word and thank you, thank your x for sharing what your wrote in your OP.  I feel less 'flawed'.  Limbo does suck, but I think I'm not in limbo as much as in a r/s that is going nowhere, a ship with no destination.  Figuring out if it is enough for me.

Thank you again, and please hijack and ramble anytime, it's helps all of us.

CiF

[maria1]

Hi CIF

You are more than welcome if it helps! It sounds as if you know where you are and you know that you want to be some place different. That's important work that you've done. I hope you find your way  - It sounds like you will x