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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Conflicting messages- how to respond?  (Read 643 times)
Rhymes w/Orange
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« on: January 30, 2013, 06:41:42 PM »

Hi

I am seperated from dBPDh. H hasn't made any contact with me for a while, acually cancelling his email account so I couldn't email him anymore. OK, fine.

So now he sends me a letter filled with conflicting statements. One part is about his love and dedication for me, how he wants me to come back, etc. The other is statements of anger, blame and hate. This combination has been the content of all contact I have received from him since I have been gone.

I don't want to throw out his "good" statements just because there are "bad" ones along with them. I DO want to reconcile and save our marriage. I have outlined the specific things I expect him to do in order for our life together to be possible. However, he is really out of it and I don't think the message is getting through to him no matter what I do.

I am assuming that this contact is his attempt to  show love. But that in doing so, he feels vulnerable, so he adds the hate/blame to protect himself.

My objective is for him to agree to the therapy I have outlined. Then if possible rebuild our marriage. The relationship isn't possible without him going through the therapy program first. That's the part he doesn't seem to get at all.

Any suggestions on how to handle this?
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Clearmind
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 08:34:28 PM »

“Splitting” is a term that describes difficulty with the ability to hold opposing thoughts, feelings, or beliefs about oneself or others. In other words, positive and negative attributes of a person are not joined together into a cohesive set of beliefs.

We may hear it a lot when we talk about folks with BPD – however we can split too.

BPDhope, your partner is all those things – the good and the bad and indifferent – just like you are – we cannot split out the good or the bad – he is who he is in its entirety.

When we accept that our loved ones are BPD we also accept the good/bad. We need to learn to accept they do not think like we do. Splitting can cause us to build resentment towards our partners because our own expectations. Accept what he is showing you.

When he talks about love and dedication – he feels that. When he talks about anger, fear and resentment – he feels that too. He cannot hold two conflicting feelings at the one time – this is confusing for you and him.

His message isn't actually conflicting for him - its how he feels. Have you inquired into why he feels angry, hate? - dig beneath the emotion to a reason.

What can you do? My suggestion would be 4 things:

1.   Accept your partner as having BPD and try to accept him for who he is

2.   Don’t try and change how he feels – not our role

3.   Don’t take his accusations to heart – they are not yours to own

4.   Validate his feelings.

Once you have mastered these and you begin to talk about reconciliation – him seeking therapy maybe a boundary for you getting back together. he may have his own set of boundaries for getting back with you - these maybe acceptable to you or not.

What happens if he refuses therapy?

Thoughts?

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Rhymes w/Orange
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 09:06:32 PM »

Thanks Clearmind.

I do accept him for what he is. I do understand that he has these conflicting feelings. I have wrestled with my own conflicting feelings for years. I know all about it and I can allow him to feel conflicted. I'm not splitting here. I have validated like it's the only language there is. Of course I can and will continue to do so, but from my experience it does not get me anywhere.

Other than validating his feelings is there anything I can do?

Just SET? Validate the bad feelings, maybe validate the good (?) or at least agree? And then remind of the truth of the boundary? This is what I have been doing with him in all my contact so far. And here I am, same place.

He hasn't voiced any boundaries. I don't think he has any, he just wants me to know I am the one at fault and I had better take 100%responsibilty, and pay for all the pain I have caused him by all the things he imagined I did.

I'm sorry if I sound angry. I'm not, I am just really tired of not being able to say even one thing to him and have him listen to me and understand. It has been a few years since I was even able to have a real conversation with him. He could only attack me or assume I was attacking him. I have tried so hard, and I just can't get a thing through to him.

What happens if he refuses? Well he has so far and here we are. If he continues, this stupid stalemate will continue for a while... .  who knows beyond that.
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Clearmind
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 08:56:42 PM »

Not feeling heard by your partner hurts I know.

Being separated allows you some time to start looking out for you. Being separated also helps to learn to accept BPD and that his actions are part of the disorder.

Where to from here? You cannot make things better for him. You can however set boundaries - if you are separated you have the luxury of having your own space.

If he is accusing/blaming on the phone advise if he doesn't stop the accusations that you will hang up.

If its in person - leave

Are you in therapeutic separation? What changes or boundaries are being discussed for you to reconcile?
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Rhymes w/Orange
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2013, 11:52:25 AM »

Thanks clearmind.

I know I am not explaining myself very well here, I'm just too tired of the "explaining" process.

Anyway, yes I am seperated physically, but not a theraputic seperation because he refused. The talks about reconciliation have all been from me and it is like this- you agree to go to the treatment I outlined, and we can work on reconciliation. This is just the way it has to be, the situation is too dangerous for me to do anything else. No we do not talk. Yes I have tried to keep in touch by email. He cancelled his email account so he would not have to get emails from me (which were neutral and non- confrontational by the way). I had not heard a word from his direction in months. Then this letter. I realize that this is probably his attempt to reach out to me, and show love. It's probably the best he can do. I feel for him, his world is so difficult and horrible, and he doesn't know anything else, he doesn't know there is something different.

I do love him, and I do want to reconcile. I do want to be healthy, and I do want him to be healthy. There are some issues that he needs to deal with before it is safe for us to be together. But I do want to be with him, I didn't want to leave in the first place.

RWO
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schwing
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2013, 01:50:49 PM »

Hi BPDhope and  Welcome

So now he sends me a letter filled with conflicting statements. One part is about his love and dedication for me, how he wants me to come back, etc. The other is statements of anger, blame and hate. This combination has been the content of all contact I have received from him since I have been gone.

It may be helpful to understand that he is not "conflicted" in the same way we (non-disordered) are conflicted.  When we are conflicted, we are balancing between different thoughts and feelings simultaneous: "I love him but I don't like certain behaviors."  For people with BPD (pwBPD) they *alternate* between their conflicting feelings.  One second he feels his love and dedication for you, and the next second he feels only anger, blame and hate.  It is literally either one or the other.  Which is why when we feel their idealization, it seems to us sincere, heartfelt and true, but then when we feel their devaluation, it can be extremely hurtful.  And their feelings towards us (both the idealization and the devaluation) has no temperance just like any of their other intense feelings.

His letter should indicate to you how often and quickly he makes these alternations between idealizing and devaluing you.

I don't want to throw out his "good" statements just because there are "bad" ones along with them. I DO want to reconcile and save our marriage. I have outlined the specific things I expect him to do in order for our life together to be possible. However, he is really out of it and I don't think the message is getting through to him no matter what I do.

You cannot throw out the "good" just because of the "bad", but you cannot expect him to stop thinking or feeling the "bad", not so long as he is not truly recovering from his mental disorder.  This is part of what you must consider if you wish to reconcile with him and save your marriage.

I am assuming that this contact is his attempt to  show love. But that in doing so, he feels vulnerable, so he adds the hate/blame to protect himself.

I would not agree with this assessment.  He is showing you *all* his feelings which is difficult for you to fully understand because you do not suffer from BPD.

Other than validating his feelings is there anything I can do?

Just SET? Validate the bad feelings, maybe validate the good (?) or at least agree? And then remind of the truth of the boundary? This is what I have been doing with him in all my contact so far. And here I am, same place.

Perhaps it might be helpful for you to start determining what you do that triggers his disordered "splits"?  Here's a common misunderstanding I can anticipate:

As non-disordered, our inclination is to believe that when we feel closer and more intimate, then the relationship is more solid and stable.  This is the case of us.  But not necessarily so for pwBPD.  Too much feelings of intimacy and familiarity can trigger them.  What I find to be helpful is to maintain formal and distant interaction.  And consistency and predictability helps as well.  Remember it's not how close *we* feel, but how close *they* feel.  And depending upon how self-aware and honesty your partner is, he may or may not be forthcoming about his true feelings, at least not until they are so intense that he cannot help himself.

Here's the thing, he's not going to change until he decides for himself that he wants to change.  He might *tell* you that he wants to change, but if he's telling you this after you've given him an ultimatum (change or the relationship is over), then chances are he's acting out of fear of abandonment and not out of his own personal desire to change, to recover from disordered feelings and behaviors he may or may not accept in himself.

If he chooses to be in denial of his disordered feelings and behaviors, then this is his choice.  And I think you should make your appropriate corresponding choices.  You can bring a horse to water... .  

He hasn't voiced any boundaries. I don't think he has any, he just wants me to know I am the one at fault and I had better take 100%responsibilty, and pay for all the pain I have caused him by all the things he imagined I did.

You see this kind of distorted perspective, that he wants you to "take all the blame" is another expression of "splitting" behavior.  You so, so long as he has you to devalue, then he can devalue himself less often (or perhaps not at all).  You see, if you were not there to take 100% of the blame, then he would take all of that, and he would devalue himself to the point where suicide may be contemplated.  But so long as there is someone else to devalue, he can avoid devaluing himself.

The alternative is to develop new emotional tools to help him better manage, limit and temper his disordered feelings, tools such as those one might learn in DBT.  But until he becomes adept at using such new tools, his inclination will be to fall back on the old tools: such as "splitting" "projection" "dissociative behavior" "gas lighting" "distortion campaigns" etc... .  

I'm sorry if I sound angry. I'm not, I am just really tired of not being able to say even one thing to him and have him listen to me and understand.

It can understand it is tiring to be in a relationship when your partner demands so much support and is not able to give the support you need.  The trick is to know what he is incapable of giving you... .  perhaps he is capable of occasionally simulating the appearance of such support, but not truly able to give it to you.  In which case, you will need to find another more reliable source of such support.

What happens if he refuses? Well he has so far and here we are. If he continues, this stupid stalemate will continue for a while... .  who knows beyond that.

This is a decision only you can make.  I don't know what is in his heart.  I don't know if he has it within him to recover.

I had not heard a word from his direction in months. Then this letter. I realize that this is probably his attempt to reach out to me, and show love. It's probably the best he can do.

In my experience, pwBPD love you when they need you.  When they don't need you, they don't love you.  Those months you did not hear from him, I suspect he was getting his needs met somewhere else.

I feel for him, his world is so difficult and horrible, and he doesn't know anything else, he doesn't know there is something different.

His word is difficult and horrible and perhaps he doesn't know anything else.  But it is his choice to stay there and not find some other way.

Best wishes, Schwing
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momtara
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« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2013, 02:15:43 PM »

my husband started off blaming me for everything.  i kept being consistent and pointing out things he had done to cause the separation, all while telling him i know he is a good person and does what he does out of fear and i see so much hope and love in him, and it's too bad that he can't always share his fears with me.  i tried to be non condescending and encouraging.  he wanted to come right back into the house.  it was only when he realized i wanted to keep the separation that he woke up and started admitting his problems and got therapy and said he wants to change.  i am not sure he's getting therapy for BPD but he has finally admitted to all his problems.  still, we have little kids so i may not be able to take him back as soon as he wants, if ever.  i have to see if the therapy is really working.

here's what i see about your situation: 

1.  you are right to insist on therapy.  but in order to get help, he has to see his faults and things he did wrong too, so he knows what to work on.  he will deny certain incidents you tell him, so you have to use the recent ones that are more obviously a problem and obviously his fault.  refer to them calmly. 

if he is going to continue the delusion that you are at fault for most of this, it may be hard to solve until he realizes in time how good you really are and how well you treated him.  so don't mirror his bad behavior - just keep being consistent and good and the way you are.

2.  don't count on him to come around, especially not right away.  but it may happen when he feels he'll lose everything. or it may not.  no way of knowing.

3.  just behave so that you will have no regrets down the road.  tell him the things you want to tell him, things you'll be proud of later, even if you never get to tbe with him again. 

Unfortunately, some of these folks just don't realize how good they have it until it's too late.  My husband is probably only working on changing because of the kids.  Not sure what might happen if it was just me.  But who knows?

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Rhymes w/Orange
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« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2013, 07:57:23 PM »

Thank you Momtara, I wish you the best with your family. I appreciate what you have said, especially #3.

And Schwing, you are right on. And I know a lot of this too. But truthfully I have been working on myself a lot during this time apart, and also helping my kids work on their own issues. It's been pretty much about that lately. Before this, it was only about dBPDh, all the time.  I know it is good to work on myself and to help my kids. Believe me, it was a big change in protocol! But the fact is that as I gain more normal thinking, I get out of practice with the world of BPD. And I need to keep my skill up if I am going to continue to care about him and interact with him. Ahhh... .  need to keep working. Need to find balance.

Thanks for everything.
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