How to Handle an arguement? Advise please

[AnnePort]

Hi Everyone,

I have an 18 year old daughter, not officially diagnosed but we think BPD, in the first few months of therapy for her and us (me and Dad)

I'll try and keep this brief, an incident that happened yesterday.

PLease bear in mind the therapist has said she is 18 still in school, your house your rules, she needs to treat us with repsect. Also we have to "not let her see us sweat" keep our anger and emotion from her.

Yesterday she puts water on the stove to boil, goes to her room and leaves it. I come home from work she cleaning up the mess, burnt and spilt all over the stove. This is an issue she has, not finishing tasks. When house safety is at stake I draw the line. Long story short later she comes back to clean the stove some more. I tell her to leave it, like I say long story but she was making me furious. I tell her to stop what she's doing and get out of the kitchen. She argues with me, I tell her enough she needs to go to her room as I'm getting upset. She still argues with me.

This is where Dad steps in and tells her to go and she goes.

His opinion is that I should have walked out of the room. If my other two kiddos acted that way I would have made them get out, but Dad's opinion is she's BPD we have to treat her differently so I should have stepped out.

I understand she is different but how to handle this. Let her get away with being disrespectful or be a parent?

I would love some outside opinions on this, I know there is no one correct answer but I am having such a hard time with this. We do everything for her, just like our other children but she is slyly spitting in our faces. I can't stand being two faced, that's how she acts but we are expected to smile and be nice to her while furious on the inside.

Luckily we have a therapist apt in the morning, hopefully he can help.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

I think you need to try and understand how what you said impacted her... .  by not allowing her to help clean up... .  in her head she hear a voice saying you can't do anything... .  you are such a loser... .  etc... .  I really don't see the reason for not letting her clean... .  what harm would that have done.

So yes first I would have let her clean and left the area if things got too emotional... .  could it be your expectations are too high... .  I hear in what you are saying that you feel she did this on purpose? You sound angry... .  you want to control the situation? Let go of those notions.

There are probably many things your daughter needs to change BUT I have learned there are also many things I need to change as well. Is she in DBT therapy? Have you read Valerie Porr's book... over coming BPD? It is important you get the right kind of therapy... .  it is important to read as much as you can... .  I only recently found out my daughter is BPD and I am still learning... .  I hope you will not take my comments to harshly... .  I have been where you are... .  I was angry... .  then sad and grieved for my daughter and the thought she would not have a full life... .  then we are where we are now... .  making baby steps... .  something two steps ahead on one back but keep going forward and stay positive... .  the sooner you can put some boundaries in place the less angry you will be... .  

take care AnnePort... .  this board is so helpful and there is a lot of good advise from people who have been doing this a long time... .  stay positive...  

[AnnePort]

Yes you are right, I am angry, emotions run on a daily basis from mad, sad devestated, worried and at times disgusted. This is what is getting to be hard, we have to turn off our emotions while she gets to do what she wants, whatever makes her feel good. There has to be some balance in this too.

Like I said the situation last night was a long story, more than just I wouldn't let her clean. And I never said she does this on purpose although it is hard to understand why she has such a hard time coping with tasks sometimes.

She hasn't even been formally diagnosed yet, it's only been since november that we've been trying to get to a therapist.

My reason for posting this situation was asking if anyone had thoughts about who should walk away and how to handle this as a parent. Thank you.

[cfh]

anneport

I don't know if this will help but when my ds was living with us last year he was always in the kitchen cooking, then would leave and forget that he had something on or in the stove and we had such messes on our hands.  Food explosions everywhere.

I also would not let him clean up because he was destroying my kitchen during the clean up.  I had a new oven and he was putting huge scratches on it trying to scrape off food. He broke the knobs trying to get them back on, I had a new countertop that he ruined by using a knife to scrape up food spills. 

Maybe this sounds silly but we have our house on the market and made these updates to the kitchen to help it sell.

The logical consequence to his making a mess is=clean it up!  But he was causing even more damage.

In the end I had to calmly ban ds from cooking because he would not comply with my requests to clean up properly.

If my non ds had made a mess I would have made him clean it up and he would have done it properly with no further damage.  But he doesn't have BPD.

Each situation is different and not every one can be handled with ease.  In my case I had to ask BPDson to leave.

[AnnePort]

Thank you thank you, That is why I am here!.

That's the long story I wasn't going to sit and type LOL. Nice new glass top stove, she was going to clean it potentially ruining it. Don't want to sound petty but we work our butts off to have the few nice things we have and would like to keep them that way for a while at least.

She has a problem reading instructions on packaging, worries me about how she will cope alone ( she wants to be a nurse btw) That's why I told her to leave the kitchen, she was trying to argue with me that she had read the instructions, but she either read incorrectly or she didn't read, and like I said this is an issue she has. It wasn't really the instruction situation that set me off but the arguing.

That's the hard part in all this, these things seem petty to an outsider but when it's the same thing day in day out it's hard not to be angry sometimes.

She aslo left her lights on her car yesterday, ran the battery flat. Ddin't have a problem asking Dad to fix it or tonight to put it back but she'll get on FB and bad mouth us to her friends and other family members.

Just been reading about validation... .  hard for me to do right now... .  but trying. Thanks again

Oh and btw way, yes set a boundary, she is not to use the kettle anymore. Hard for me as a MUm, trying to teach my kids to fish, not just feed them but the only reason the kettle got turned off was my 12 year old found it, thank goodness she was home. Like I said safety is an issue now.

[mick37]

Not sure if this helps or not but just bought a book myself to learn how to deal with arguments, emails, texts, etc.  BIFF is the name.  Stands for Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm.  Give you guidelines on how to respond even when face to face with someone like your daughter.  Might be worth the read.  Can't claim I'm an expert by any means but it seems helpful so far.

[pattyt]

Anneport,

You've gotten good advice.  A direct, unemotional approach is the best.  Less words the better.  :)on't engage.  Read, read, read this site.  You'll find lots here to help.  

That said, I'd like to address your feelings in all this.  These were my same feelings, too, when my dd (now 21) "changed" at the age of 18 and became someone so different from the girl we knew before.  Anger, confusion, desperation, sick-to-my-stomach fear, grief... .  these were all emotions I experienced.

I can tell that you are new to this journey because I think you are struggling with trying to reconcile this thing with your daughter to something logical you can accept - something that makes sense.  I suppose this because this was (and continues to be) one of the hardest things for me to deal with.

So when your dd behaves like this, what should you do - let her get away with being disrespectful or be a parent?

The answer is neither.

What I've learned in these few years is that you can drive yourself crazy trying to approach this doing what you believe a parent should do.  Yes, it doesn't seem fair or right.  It seems illogical and downright flies in the face of everything you know as a parent.  You hesitate and start to question everything you've ever believed about how to parent.  You question yourself, too, because after all these years of playing this role of parent it becomes a part of who we are.

And so, you must forget what you know to be the correct reaction of a parent.  You must learn all you can about how to be a parent to this.one.child.  It is not intuitive (at least, not for me), but you must learn a whole new way to relate to this dd in a way she can understand.  Like any change, the hardest part is wrapping your mind around it.

Here is how it was told to me:

You've tried your way and it didn't work.  Learn what will work.

Your way might be "right", but would you rather be right or help your daughter?

[jellibeans]

pattyt... .  you said it way better than i... .  

really it does come down to that... .  what is important? being right? Helping my dd really ends up helping my whole family and everyone is happier... .