Could use some ideas/grounding

[DreamGirl]

My husband and I are really emotional about some recent events - and I feel like we're getting caught up in "rescuing".

It's also about my least favorite subject... .  money.

Here goes:

My family, for Christmas, gave all the kids (bio and step) cash. $250 each

SD16 bought a laptop (she had some other money saved)

SD13 is saving up for a trip to New York (she has $1,400 of the $2,000 needed) - deposited the money in her bank account

SD10 has spent part of it - bought some clothes, has about $135 left

Last week:

SD10 left the $135 at her mom's - mom took it. Mom told SD10 that she used it to pay bills and that she'd pay her back. SD10 was upset and told her Dad and me that her mom "stole" her money. SD16 was really mad and they both got riled up - Dad explained that no, mom should not have taken it without asking... .  and that she probably will pay it back.

I asked what lesson SD10 learned... .  

"I'm never bringing money to Mom's again."

Friday:

Mom called saying child support hadn't been deposited. I checked, she was right, we pay it thru the state's registry and it hadn't been disbursed.

Her rent is due. My husband lent her the money in exchange for a check (not a big deal).

Yesterday:

Mom called again, and I quote "You need to write me a check for $250, SD13 said I could borrow it from her, and you can just get it from her account on Monday".

My hubs - "I'm really uncomfortable with that."

Followed by a (mutual) tirade where he eventually said "I'm hanging up now."

Today:

We're picking up the girls for a Superbowl Party. Mom's called twice, left two messages along the lines of "Make sure you bring me that check when you pick them up". She can't get to SD's money without my husband's assitance - he's the only signer on the account with SD13.


Here's where we're at.

I want to just lend her the money myself.

My husband wants to tell her "no way".

Logic (and mom) says - "it's SD13's money".

My wise friend told me, "it's lesson time". Just like my youngest SD.

My oldest SD told her little sister (SD13) - "you're stupid if you give her that money".

I'm at a point where I think it's time to let SD13 make a choice - and let her know that if she's $250 short for her trip, her Dad and I won't give it to her.

I'm really, really, angry at their mom.

I also will not be writing a check today. No matter what. She can wait until tomorrow - and I think SD13 should go to the bank and be the one to hand over "her" money to her mama.

I feel cruel.

My husband is livid and in a knee-trigger rant told her she was pathetic for involving her daughters in her money problems.

Can I get some feedback please?

What would you do?  

[DivDad]

I divorced a Bline. Two kids.

Been where you are at.

The bigger issue is that the Bline put the kids in the middle of a parent money issue.

Courts don't like that.

You might want to just converse with Bline via email so you can have a record (and document trail) of her putting the kids in the middle.

Nicely re-interate in the email all that she did... and ask Bline to respond back via emai.

Blines are clever at ranting over the phone and leaving no record of their behavior.   If she keeps it up, get caller ID and have her leave voice recorded messages.

Start tracking her thnking and behavior.

Since your D's are teenagers... .  this is going to happen time and time again.

You need to start documenting what the Bline is doing.

But do it quietly.

Again, the issue is the Bline putting the kids in the middle of parent issues. 

The Bline is NEVER going to repay the daughter's money.

They will blame you... .  and they will make sure the daughters know that it is your fault that they

lost the money.

Remember, Bliners do not think rationally.

They are not governed by univerasal rules of what is right and wrong.

The borderline can wait until Monday for her money.

Blines lie all the time.  You really don't know if the rent is due or not.

What you do know is that she put the children in the middle of an adult issue.

Think down the road as to what you want to document for the courts... .  rather than

the created crisis at the moment.

All the normal people around you are right about how to handle and resolve the money issue with the daughters.

Your job is to keep the children out of the issue. 

[tog]

I wouldn't give it to her. I assume you wouldn't let SD13 lend that money to a friend, right? So why mom? Not only that, I'd want to let her know that we expected the $135 to be paid back by X date or SO would be filing a court motion and/or police charges (penny wise and pound foolish, I know, but it would be for effect).

Then I'd have a talk with both girls (without slamming mom) about how sometimes mom struggles with managing her money the right way but that doesn't mean they have to give theirs to her.

In our case, she would rant and rave and rant some more but if she was ignored, she would pay the money back.

[Matt]

What about just being very passive - don't do anything.

Then if SD13 comes to you and says, "Will you please take me to the bank, so I can get my money and lend it to Mom?" - that is, it's SD13 asking you to help her do what she is choosing to do with her own money - you can maybe do that, if you have the time.  You're helping SD13 by giving her a ride to the bank.  Not helping Mom - that's SD13's choice.

The bigger picture... .  maybe get more distance in terms of communication.  Don't be so available for these conversations.  Don't pick up when she calls - let it go to voice-mail, and listen to that, and decide if it's a good subject to call her back about.

It sounds like way too much interaction between Dad (and DreamGirl) and Mom.

Focus on the kids.

[sanemom]

What about just being very passive - don't do anything.

Then if SD13 comes to you and says, "Will you please take me to the bank, so I can get my money and lend it to Mom?" - that is, it's SD13 asking you to help her do what she is choosing to do with her own money - you can maybe do that, if you have the time.  You're helping SD13 by giving her a ride to the bank.  Not helping Mom - that's SD13's choice.

The bigger picture... .  maybe get more distance in terms of communication.  Don't be so available for these conversations.  Don't pick up when she calls - let it go to voice-mail, and listen to that, and decide if it's a good subject to call her back about.

It sounds like way too much interaction between Dad (and DreamGirl) and Mom.

Focus on the kids.

I really like this idea because it gives the kids some options... .  they may feel forced to give mom the money, but if they have to bring it up for you to bring them to the bank, they may "forget" as a safer way to say no.

Then if you bring SD13 to the bank, you can always give her the generic lecture that she should never loan anyone anything unless she is ok never getting it back.  Actually, you can give her that talk without going to the bank... .  you can give it to her in the framework of never loaning to friends unless they are ok not getting it back, and let SD13 connect the dots herself.   That way you are not slamming mom.

[DreamGirl]

Well, no check was written yesterday.

My SD13 did arrived at my house this morning with her mom's reimbursemnt check dated for the 15th.

She asked if I could write her mom a check - and I said "nope, that's your deal and I'm not a signer on your account, your dad is. You'll have to go after school with your dad to get it".

"Can't I just pay you back?"

"Nope, I won't have any part of it. Sorry."  

I felt so angry that I couldn't even see straight. I had to stop myself from texting, calling and just expressing that I think that she's just so... .  wrong.

Courts don't like that.You might want to just converse with Bline via email so you can have a record (and document trail) of her putting the kids in the middle.

I don't think she was putting her in the middle of the adult's child support issue.

She's borrowing money to pay her rent. It's not really against the law or anything... .  it just makes you a crappy parent. (in my book) I've also learned that in accordance with our judicial system, the standard for parenting is set so low, you could trip over it.

I also don't know that we're building a case against her. Court enforcement isn't really necessary I don't think? We've had the same schedule for over 6 years - it really works for us (and the girls). We're at 50/50 with the two younger ones - and she has voluntarily let the oldest live with us full time (not that my 16yo stepdaughter really gave her a choice in the matter).

Would court be an option? Sure.

Over her putting her daughter's in a tough place by borrowing money from them?

I don't know that it's worth it?

I wouldn't give it to her. I assume you wouldn't let SD13 lend that money to a friend, right? So why mom?

I wish I would have thought of this. It's a really good point.

Then I'd have a talk with both girls (without slamming mom) about how sometimes mom struggles with managing her money the right way but that doesn't mean they have to give theirs to her.

In our case, she would rant and rave and rant some more but if she was ignored, she would pay the money back.

I usually stay out of it - but I couldn't help myself. I told her that I commend her for wanting to help her mom out, and that she gets to decide... .  and that she should always be mindful of what's OK and what's not OK.

I was honest. I don't think that her mom should borrow money from her - and I wouldn't support it by writing her mom a check. I don't think that it's fair that she put her in that position. I wouldn't put her in that position... .  or my own children. I also told her that I'm mad that she's being put in that position.  I would feel differently if it was her idea - I have a hard time knowing that she doesn't want to lend her mom money, but she was going to anyways...  

But those are my values. Her mom has different values then me.

She said she understands, but it's her mama. She asked me if it was my mom - what would I do?

I told her that my mom wouldn't ask me for money.  

What about just being very passive - don't do anything.

Then if SD13 comes to you and says, "Will you please take me to the bank, so I can get my money and lend it to Mom?" - that is, it's SD13 asking you to help her do what she is choosing to do with her own money - you can maybe do that, if you have the time.  You're helping SD13 by giving her a ride to the bank.  Not helping Mom - that's SD13's choice.

The bigger picture... .  maybe get more distance in terms of communication.  :)on't be so available for these conversations.  :)on't pick up when she calls - let it go to voice-mail, and listen to that, and decide if it's a good subject to call her back about.

It sounds like way too much interaction between Dad (and DreamGirl) and Mom.

Focus on the kids.

This has been really hard for me.

If it were me, and my children's savings account, and my kids' dad was asking for money (which he would never do)... .  the answer is so simple. "Absolutely not - your dad's a grown man, he can figure out his money problems"

That's my value system that I engulf my own children in.

My husband just is not on the same page and he's dealing with her in his own way.

I love him, I really do, but he has got to do what is right for him.

He pulled her aside yesterday and told her that she needs to buy a really good mirror and take a long, hard look at herself. He emotionally vomitted on her knowing that he had the power that if she tried to argue, the money would never be withdrawn from anybody's account. I think that was more for him - just to feel better about teaching his daughter a really hard lesson in her already difficult life.

I'm literally in tears over this, my stepdaughter is such a sweet, beautiful soul and I just wish that she did not have to deal with this.

As she jumped out of my car this morning I told her that she's a really good person and that I loved her.

That's about how much power I feel I have in this.

My love and encouragement... .  which is certainly a mighty force.

But right now in this moment, I feel like it's just not worth anything at all.

I feel like we all suffer and she gets her rent paid, with a set of coping skills that makes her feel justified at every point.

All I am is just a set of emotions right now, and I'll patiently wait for this just to be another memory.  

~DreamGirl

[marbleloser]

Just my opinion,but here goes :

SD just learned that her mom can't be trusted.At least with money anyway.My stbx did the same and took our D19's graduation money that I gave her.She did pay it back,but in small increments so that D19 couldn't really use it for anything. She learned not to leave money at moms.

Our S9 and S8 also learned this the hard way.She took the money they were saving as well.Never paid it back.Now,they save money at my home and know it's safe there and it won't be touched.

From the outside it appears you and H are enabling the eX. The state doesn't have her money available,so you guys jump to cover her rent. I'd say let her deal with it with the state and whomever she is renting from.Your H paid.That's the end of his obligation.He did his part.

As for her "borrowing" money from SD13,I think you handled it perfect. SD13 is making the decision to let her mom borrow the money,so you stepped aside,and told her how she'd have to go about it.If mom doesn't pay it back,SD13 learns something.Don't let mom borrow money.If she's like my kids,it'll only take one time.!

[DreamGirl]

From the outside it appears you and H are enabling the eX.

I get that a lot.

And I agree.  

I also can only "support" my husband in his decisions (maybe that makes me an enabler of my husband - I'm not sure). It was part of "our" deal - I let him handle his ex however he sees fit, understand that he carefully weighs my input when I don't agree, but ultimately he gets to decide. I'll support him as best I can.  

She doesn't call me - she already knows my answer would be no. (she's tried - and it only took a couple times of saying no)

As for her "borrowing" money from SD13,I think you handled it perfect. SD13 is making the decision to let her mom borrow the money,so you stepped aside,and told her how she'd have to go about it.If mom doesn't pay it back,SD13 learns something.Don't let mom borrow money.If she's like my kids,it'll only take one time.!

Now that it's all said and done, I feel better about it.

SD13 is also in a really good mood, so it's obviously not impacting her like it is me.  


On a side note... .  

She's going gambling in a nearby town this weekend. My oldest stepdaughter is dogsitting for her on Saturday. My husband just shook his head when she left that message. I think it kinda shows just how unaware of her actions she really is.

Onward and upward.

[Matt]

Seems like the kids might be interested in knowing that she is going gambling.

Usually best not to tell the kids everything you hear about the other parent, but in this case it's pretty relevant.

[DreamGirl]

Seems like the kids might be interested in knowing that she is going gambling.

Usually best not to tell the kids everything you hear about the other parent, but in this case it's pretty relevant.

No need for me to tell them.

She already told them herself.

Again, her self awareness is pretty limited, I think.

I'm over it.

I also think this is a motivating factor for my husband, he's formualting an action plan for re-adressing child support, custody schedule of my oldest SD and the medical reimbursements.

All things happen for a reason.

[Matt]

It's a huge asset that you and your husband are mutually supportive.

This kind of stress could drive a couple apart.