Convincing Partner that Child Needs Therapy

[ExtraMom]

I touched on this before:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=178867.msg12081188#msg12081188

But could use some advice... .  

My boyfriend, GoodDad, has done a great job with his daughter, Girl9. He has had full physical and now legal custody of Girl9 for the last three years. Girl9 has definitely been affected by her mother's (BPDex's) behaviors. She has also had to deal with being separated from her two half-siblings, who are currently in foster care. Before GoodDad got custody of her, Girl9 had been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. She has improved drastically, but there are still problems.

Since her mother moved back to this state and began getting weekly, court-supervised visits, Girl9's behavior has taken another dip. She has been having problems at school that were significant enough that her teachers and principal had an extended meeting with us to come up with solutions.

GoodDad has been following their suggestions and the behaviors have been improving.

He has been following all of their suggestions EXCEPT one... .  it was determined, in the meeting and after the school system's traveling therapist met with Girl9, that Girl9 would benefit from receiving regular counseling sessions with a psychologist or therapist.

GoodDad had initially agreed to this suggestion, but his method of resisting is to deflect and procrastinate until an issue is forgotten about. He gets very defensive and shuts me down if I even mention the "therapist" issue. He agreed to it because the authority figures at the school suggested it, but he hasn't taken any action. Initially, he asked me to research and suggest a good therapist, which I did. But he keeps putting off calling her. For four months now... .  which is a long time in the life of a child. There is always some excuse as to why he's too busy to make the call.

Every person who has worked with Girl9 has warned that if the underlying issues she is struggling with aren't addressed now, her teen years are going to be incredibly difficult. But GoodDad seems to be in denial. I think part of him thinks he can deal with it, part of him is simply distrustful of therapists (BPDex was an aspiring therapist, for a time), and part of him is scared and wants to just hide from the problem and hope it will go away. I know he wants what is best for Girl9, but I think he is going to cause more harm than good with his inaction.

Has anyone else dealt with this sort of thing? How can I possibly spur him into action without causing him to rebel against the idea entirely? 

[asunder]

I'm in the camp that isn't sold on therapy (at least in most cases)- I came from a family of therapists and I know the industry and how it works pretty well.  If he is changing the subject and getting defensive, most likely he is having reservations about putting his daughter in therapy.

[mamachelle]

Hi ExtraMom

Here are 2 great resources:

"I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better"  it's an easy read with clear directives in validation

"Parenting a Child Who Has Intense Emotions"  a dbt skills basic for using to parent highly emotional children.

I would get both of these books ASAP and read them.

They have helped me so much with my SS 8,10 and 15.

SS10 is an emotionally dysregulated kiddo

As far as therapy, well, my NonH usually waits for a crisis to take action.

As Smom I have no problem with scheduling and initiating therapy and doctor's visits.

As a GF, though what you can do legally is harder.

A possible route, if you are secure in your relationship is to schedule consults with 3 different child therapists for you and your BF to meet over a period of 3 weeks when you know he is available. Then he would have a choice and it is harder to turn it down when it is staring you in the face so to speak. 

You want to make sure they take your insurance, and have the same kind of philosophy on parenting  as you do. You want someone that will work with your kiddo. We have a number of therapists in the mix in our family and everyone is a little different. You want someone that understands BPD, that also does not blame you as parents for your kids bad behavior. Check web sites. check references. Go with your gut.

If your BF is still resistant another tactic is take it from a more medical perspective and see if he will go for neuropsych testing for his D9. THat would give an avenue into therapy that is more medical.

asunder:

Not all therapy is created equal. It is indeed buyer beware. But I can say that the right therapist, the right therapy can save lives and has for so many here affected by BPD.

[ExtraMom]

Well, believe me, I have my own skepticism about therapy. I have known way too many people who have pursued careers in psychology primarily because they were so messed up, themselves.

But then I encountered BPDx and the bizarre psychodrama of her family and their effect on people I love.

I don't recommend therapy lightly. And I have worked with children before, so I'm not just a n00b, stumbling unknowingly into normal childhood behavior. Girl9's behavior is significant enough to alarm me. In the meeting with her teachers, she had to be sent to wait in the office several times. She was refusing to respond to the teachers or principal. She refused to go through the worksheet that they have the students go through in these meetings. She spoke in "baby talk," shouted at the adults in the room, crawled under the tables, refused to stop spinning in her chair, got up repeatedly to wander around the room, and alternately tried to crawl into GoodDad's and my lap. She was stressed, yes, but her behavior was shocking. Her principal said that she had been in education for decades and had never encountered a child who reacted to these meetings in such an age-inappropriate manner. Her teachers chimed in that this is how she had begun acting in class, to the point where the other children were now shunning her.

I taught school-age children for a few years and I only had two students who acted even close to this way. Both of them were from abusive homes.

I don't think I am overreacting to be alarmed and I do worry that GoodDad is in denial. He keeps saying, "She's been doing better," since that meeting. But I still believe that although her "symptoms" are improving, that there is still a need to treat the underlying causes. I love her so much, yet I am stymied.

Thank you for the book recommendations. I will read them ASAP.

[asunder]

Speaking for myself, I'm kind of changing my tune after researching BPD.  I've read enough from the sufferers themselves to know that most of what I thought I knew doesn't apply in these situations.  Perhaps your husband is like me?  The standard that he may be applying may be prudent for MOST people, but imprudent when it comes to people with BPD.

[bpdex]

Not sure what I'd recommend to change your SO's opinion on it.  I know that therapy has been a great benefit to my S12 in a couple of ways.  It's given S12 a safe place to work out his feelings about xBPDw.  He's also been much better in school, because he's learned coping strategies.  The T has also helped me be a better parent as well.  No parent is perfect, and I know, in my situation, it was hard to accept that I might be doing something wrong as parent.  It's hard to admit that, because it in some way it could be translated as "I'm the bad parent and thus the problem while BPDmom is not." In the end, I had to get over that, swallow my pride and realize it isn't about me or my perception of the situation, it's about my S12.

Not sure if you feel that you'll be back in court or not at some point in time over custody issues.  However, another unintended benefit was the therapist herself and her willingness to go to court on behalf of S12 to make recommendations to the court.  Obviously, this shouldn't be the reason for getting a T put in place, but the courts will always give weight and listen to an "expert" nonpartisan opinion.  It's also important to note, that by not taking the child to therapy, as recommended by the school, that BPDmom then has an argument against SO in court for not following the school's recommendation whether or not she supported idea or not... .  just saying.  If I were BPDmom's attorney, I'd be jumping all over that one, so I'd be asking myself... .  why open yourself up to that?

Sounds like a good opportunity to talk to your SO and just let him know your concerns.  Make sure you do it in a non-threatening environment without any distractions.  Date nights are always the best time for my SO and I to talk.  Then just let him know what you've learned from these boards and other research you've done.  Perhaps ask if you can schedule a couple of appts with T's for you and him to go an do some initial screening.  Maybe meeting with them will ease his concerns.

[mamachelle]

Hi ExtraMom,

Yes, it does sound like Girl9 needs even more than just talk therapy. She needs an IEP/ behavior plan put into place. The school should be taking action on this already. If not, then there is another concern as the school needs to identify the triggers for her behavior and give her more support. She needs testing done by the school to determine what other things are going on that may be causing her distress. Right now her learning is affected.

I can only say your GoodDad is hiding his head in the sand. My NonH does this as well but he does let me schedule therapy and does not obstruct.

The question is really not if Girl9 will end up in therapy-- it is when... .  Better now than later. If GoodDad is not doing what he should now then it bodes not so well for the future. It's something to consider... .  when neither parent is doing what they should be and you, a SO is the only one close to her doing something, then there is really a bigger problem going on.

I am in that position in my own marriage in terms of taking initiative. If I did not have so much invested in my blended family already and have my own 2DD and now a S with my NonH -- all the work with my 3 SS -- in terms of getting them a lot of support and therapy-- would not be worth the toll it takes on my life. It is very frustrating being the only 'parent' in the mix willing to take action. It is not territory to enter lightly as you will probably become resentful as you see the inaction of Girl9's parents. I do what I do not just to help the kiddos but to help restore peace in my house and so far my hard work has paid off. My SS are doing a lot better, but SS10 and SS15 have some serious psychiatric and neuro issues including autism and bipolar and so I know I'm making a lifetime commitment with these boys at this point. That is my choice.

So- that being said, I would see what you can accomplish directly through working with the school and bypassing Dad for now if any of the other suggestions above are not working.

[ExtraMom]

Girl9 had her first meeting with a child psychologist this week. 

GoodDad feels good about it. I feel good about it. And I think, ultimately, it's going to be great for Girl9.

Big sigh of relief before pressing onward.

[mamachelle]

EM

Great great news. So happy to hear. 

How did this all happen if you don't mind sharing a bit of the past few weeks?

I've had a breakthrough this week as well with my SS10's therapist(s) and will be able to get him the help he needs. It took a lot of persistence but I will be able to get him a behavior therapist coming into the house as well as continuing on with his T and pdoc. Also looking at some med changes or additions.

All stuff you hopefully will not have to deal with, but for me it was a "big sigh of relief" this week as well.

[DreamGirl]

Girl9 had her first meeting with a child psychologist this week. 

GoodDad feels good about it. I feel good about it. And I think, ultimately, it's going to be great for Girl9.

Big sigh of relief before pressing onward.

Awesome! 

[ExtraMom]

Well, I backed off, since making a big deal of it would have just caused him to shut down.

I contacted the principal shortly before parent/teacher conferences and enlisted her help in just reminding him of the need to act soon (as long as she still felt it was necessary). She agreed that it was still quite important that Girl9 get into therapy. The day of the conferences, she sent him an email to "check in" and see where he was on seeking a therapist.

At the conferences, she pulled us aside and reiterated some of her concerns in a very friendly but serious manner. Girl9's teacher showed us her amazing test scores and stressed that the ONLY thing preventing her from being in the gifted class was her behavior.

I think the key was not to focus on Girl9's poor behavior and her faults but to stress all of the potential and strengths she had and then just show him how the behavior issues were seriously holding back a really bright, wonderful kid with a potentially great future. He has always believed in her, but I think he believes so much that he didn't really see the obstacles as clearly as others might have.

I let the information percolate for a couple days without comment and then re-sent him the number for the psychologist and requested that he set it up ASAP so that I could set my schedule around it. The reasons were there and the excuses were eliminated and it I think he had finally made peace with the idea of it.

Good to hear of your breakthrough as well.  

[Free One]

Well, I backed off, since making a big deal of it would have just caused him to shut down.

I contacted the principal shortly before parent/teacher conferences and enlisted her help in just reminding him of the need to act soon (as long as she still felt it was necessary). She agreed that it was still quite important that Girl9 get into therapy. The day of the conferences, she sent him an email to "check in" and see where he was on seeking a therapist.

At the conferences, she pulled us aside and reiterated some of her concerns in a very friendly but serious manner. Girl9's teacher showed us her amazing test scores and stressed that the ONLY thing preventing her from being in the gifted class was her behavior.

I think the key was not to focus on Girl9's poor behavior and her faults but to stress all of the potential and strengths she had and then just show him how the behavior issues were seriously holding back a really bright, wonderful kid with a potentially great future. He has always believed in her, but I think he believes so much that he didn't really see the obstacles as clearly as others might have.

I let the information percolate for a couple days without comment and then re-sent him the number for the psychologist and requested that he set it up ASAP so that I could set my schedule around it. The reasons were there and the excuses were eliminated and it I think he had finally made peace with the idea of it.

Good to hear of your breakthrough as well.  

What a wonderful way to handle it while accepting GoodDad's reluctance. You were able to influence in a positive way, not damage your r/s and benefit the child, while helping Dad feel safe and respected in the decision. I think us Nons need treatment like that while recovering from a pwBPD.

I too was turned off of therapy after a bad encounter with a T and my uBPDexh. Almost 2 years later, I am still dealing with the effects of a damaging T experience, even though I have a new T who I trust and respect. There's something extra damaging about a mental health professional justifying a pwBPD's behavior.

[mamachelle]

Hi EM

Sounds good. I like how you phrased it with Dad that  you needed the date for the T to plan your schedule. Also interesting that you contacted the principal beforehand. You really really seem invested in Girl9.

I will say that dx of AdHD as well as ODD as well as her gifted intelligence seem to possibly be leaning towards aspergers like traits. I'm not a therapist but I do have 2SS on the autism spectrum apparently. That was part of my breakthrough this week was having my long standing suspicions that SS10 was on the spectrum validated by his neuropsych.

How does girl9 do socially ?

Does she have friends or has life been too traumatic for her to make friends lately ?

Also, with dx of ADHD and ODD and all her school behavior issues she probably should have an IEP to help her meet behavior goals.

Good work EM though, you should definitely pat yourself on the back. This was huge progress!

[Free One]

I think one thing to consider with ADHD and ODD is that the symptoms are very similar to those of PTSD and stress. My S8 was having behaviors of both, but now that I am out of the r/s with uBPDexh and have worked on myself, gotten rid of a lot of fleas and worked very hard at being a stable, consistent and safe parent, I can see how stress in S8 brings out these traits. He too is very smart, but the behaviors hold him back. When I am able to get him to open up and talk about his feelings, the stress is reduced and the behaviors diminish.

Also, there was a time in all this I wondered if I had ADHD, but once I began EMDR for PTSD, the symptoms started to go away and I could function normally again.

[mamachelle]

I think one thing to consider with ADHD and ODD is that the symptoms are very similar to those of PTSD and stress. My S8 was having behaviors of both, but now that I am out of the r/s with uBPDexh and have worked on myself, gotten rid of a lot of fleas and worked very hard at being a stable, consistent and safe parent, I can see how stress in S8 brings out these traits. He too is very smart, but the behaviors hold him back. When I am able to get him to open up and talk about his feelings, the stress is reduced and the behaviors diminish.

Also, there was a time in all this I wondered if I had ADHD, but once I began EMDR for PTSD, the symptoms started to go away and I could function normally again.

yes, Free One, you are right about ADHD, ODD and PTSD looking very similar and sharing symptom traits.

Therapy does help kids process emotions, teaches them a language to talk about their feelings, and gives them a safe place to work through their feelings.

Along with what your are saying about your S8... .  my DD 13 and 16 as well as my SS8 benefit and DO learn more effective ways of coping from talk therapy as well as removal of the stressors. They do not have any psychiatric diagnoses although they have a BPD parent and suffered similar traumas to their siblings.

However, both my SS10 and 15 who have PDD-NOS traits suffer also from comorbid dx's (Bipolar and others including ADHD and ODD) that make learning new more healthy ways of functioning hard. I have noticed that with my kiddos on the spectrum that talk therapy or removing stressors alone does not diminish the behaviors unfortunately. I think you can only see this in retrospect.


My concern too is that EM's Girl9 appears to be struggling in school. A behavior plan would help her immensely and I am not sure there is one in place. Having an IEP will help her throughout her schooling, not just this year as they stay in place for 3 years. Focusing on a new dx is really not important, I just brought it up since I am dealing with it right now and it has been key for getting the schools to help my SS rather than putting it all back on the parents and the child herself/himself to fix her behaviors.

I hope this makes sense.