parenting coordinator wants to withdraw from my case

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have a hearing next Tuesday. Just talked to my L and my head is swimming in the turn of events, so I thought I'd dump my thoughts here. My case seems to be a bit of an outlier compared to other custody ones, but if anything stands out, please share feedback! I'm not sure what to think, although things seem to be going in the right direction.

Background: A parenting coordinator has been working with N/BPDxh and me since last July. Contract is up in July. 

N/BPDxh has been threatening the PC with legal action, and she has called a hearing before the judge.

My L told me:

*PC has never, in 15 years, had to ask to withdraw from a contract.

*PC said that N/BPDxh is a severe case, and she does not have any recommendations for other PCs who can work with him

*My L has never heard of a hearing like this before, not in her 14 years of practicing family law.

*PC is going to ask the judge to let her out of her contract because she does not feel she is able to play an effective role

*PC is also not sure if she can share the psych eval because she ordered it, not the judge

*My L got the impression that the psych eval was not conclusive, she is treating it like a footnote.

*N/BPDx apparently has not retained new counsel after his L withdrew

My L is recommending that we use this hearing to ask the judge to award me sole physical and legal custody, and to make a modest adjustment to the visitation schedule.

My L also thinks that the judge for our case will come down very hard on N/BPDx for threatening the PC, especially because N/BPDx is a lawyer. It shows disrespect for the court, etc.

At this point, my goal is to avoid too much further hemorrhaging of $$$, so I'm hoping the judge says 1. Yes, sole custody (unlikely) or 2. go file a motion and come back in a few weeks to tell me why LnL should get sole custody (more likely).

I feel like I'm entering no-man's land in terms of a plan. L says this is a very unusual hearing, and PC has no prior experience doing this. Is this getting easier and it just feels weird for that reason? Or maybe this train(wreck) is driving itself right now and I should just sit back and see where it goes?

[livednlearned]

I have a hearing next Tuesday. Just talked to my L and my head is swimming in the turn of events, so I thought I'd dump my thoughts here. My case seems to be a bit of an outlier compared to other custody ones, but if anything stands out, please share feedback! I'm not sure what to think, although things seem to be going in the right direction.

Background: A parenting coordinator has been working with N/BPDxh and me since last July. Contract is up in July. 

N/BPDxh has been threatening the PC with legal action, and she has called a hearing before the judge.

My L told me:

*PC has never, in 15 years, had to ask to withdraw from a contract.

*PC said that N/BPDxh is a severe case, and she does not have any recommendations for other PCs who can work with him

*My L has never heard of a hearing like this before, not in her 14 years of practicing family law.

*PC is going to ask the judge to let her out of her contract because she does not feel she is able to play an effective role

*PC is also not sure if she can share the psych eval because she ordered it, not the judge

*My L got the impression that the psych eval was not conclusive, she is treating it like a footnote.

*N/BPDx apparently has not retained new counsel after his L withdrew

My L is recommending that we use this hearing to ask the judge to award me sole physical and legal custody, and to make a modest adjustment to the visitation schedule.

My L also thinks that the judge for our case will come down very hard on N/BPDx for threatening the PC, especially because N/BPDx is a lawyer. It shows disrespect for the court, etc.

At this point, my goal is to avoid too much further hemorrhaging of $$$, so I'm hoping the judge says 1. Yes, sole custody (unlikely) or 2. go file a motion and come back in a few weeks to tell me why LnL should get sole custody (more likely).

I feel like I'm entering no-man's land in terms of a plan. L says this is a very unusual hearing, and PC has no prior experience doing this. Is this getting easier and it just feels weird for that reason? Or maybe this train(wreck) is driving itself right now and I should just sit back and see where it goes?

[livednlearned]

I should clarify -- my L said that I may be asked if I will release the PC from her contract. Not sure technically why that is, since the judge has the authority to terminate it.

So I apparently have a say in this.

[DreamGirl]

I guess my question is when/if she does withdraw from the contract - then what?

PC is ineffective, what's the next step? or solution?

You obviously needs some kind of third party, right? A therapist?

[livednlearned]

The PC is the person who trains PCs in our areas. She is considered the best. My L doesn't think any of the alternatives will be able to work with N/BPDx either.

I don't want to pay for another PC because, well, because N/BPDx is N/BPD. A PC is a money pit. And I'm broke up to my eyeballs.

What would having another PC do? There's no protection, no guarantee, no consequences. She isn't keeping us out of court. She hasn't helped reduce legal fees. She hasn't been able to stop N/BPDx from being a rage-a-holic.

Not sure what to do.

[AnotherPhoenix]

  Hi Livednlearned,  

It is good to hear that things are going "reasonably" well for you! A new romance, and it seems that your NPD/BPDex is really screwing up!

Of course, it does leave you with decisions to make.

I have no real advice for you, but I can be a sounding block for you.

1) Are you uncomfortable because of the problem this poses, or just that things are going well and you don't want to "mess it up"?

2) I hear you saying you want to avoid as much big $$$ as possible, like another hearing after this one.

3) Reading your other emails about how your PC usually validated your position (yes, I've been lurking on the boards the last few months without posting), it sounds like your PC has really helped! So much so that I have been thinking very strongly that at PC might be helpful with resolving issues that come up between me and my wife. Having a PC hasn't stopped your ex's outrageous behavior, but it is exposing it for all to see.  So, my question is, how do you feel about not having the PC anymore. Will you miss the backing that the PC has been giving you?

4) If you'd really not have the PC leave, could you or your lawyer talk to him/her and see if something can be done so that the PC will renew the contract?

5) Or, is the issue more about how you feel about your having sole custody? Is this what makes you uncomfortable?  I'm assuming you mean sole legal and physical custody.

6) Or, is it just a matter of whether or not you should try to get your lawyer to push for sole custody at the upcoming meeting? If so, what is the problem with that?

I feel like I'm entering no-man's land in terms of a plan. L says this is a very unusual hearing, and PC has no prior experience doing this. Is this getting easier and it just feels weird for that reason? Or maybe this train(wreck) is driving itself right now and I should just sit back and see where it goes?

Are you saying you aren't needing to make a decision, but you are just uneasy because things are going well. If so, stop the worry and let your self enjoy the good feeling!

Maybe it is just a feeling that things are going too well. A lot of us aren't used to it, so we feel uncomfortable. Given what you've gone through with your ex, and growing up, things going well might make you want to put your guard up so you don't get disappointed when things make a 180 degree turn for the worse, which probably happened a lot with your ex and your family. ":)on't be too happy or comfortable about it or "karma" will make sure sabatoge what is happening". With your ex and the family you grew up in, when you got too happy did your ex or family did something to make you feel bad?

I used to have that 'rule' in my head. ":)on't get too happy, because you will be disappointed and sad when things go sour, which they inevitably did." My emotions still do that, but my mind is able to overrule them now and allow myself to be as happy as I want to be when good things happen to me. Just yesterday, I finished a full-time   but short-term (1 month) which gave me a little extra spending money. I bought a "Ninja" food processor for making smoothies! I had been wanting to make smoothies for a long time. I caught myself stopping my emotions (I felt giddy about it!), and then told myself "go ahead"! Wow! I it was great to feel giddy about it! It's ok to feel happy about things.

Sending best wishes to you,

AnotherPheonix    

[seeking balance]

I think you L is right, this is going to be highly unusual.  I imagine the PC's testimony about your ex's threats is going to do more damage to him than to you.

How old is your daughter again?

[AnotherPhoenix]

The PC is the person who trains PCs in our areas. She is considered the best. My L doesn't think any of the alternatives will be able to work with N/BPDx either.

I don't want to pay for another PC because, well, because N/BPDx is N/BPD. A PC is a money pit. And I'm broke up to my eyeballs.

What would having another PC do? There's no protection, no guarantee, no consequences. She isn't keeping us out of court. She hasn't helped reduce legal fees. She hasn't been able to stop N/BPDx from being a rage-a-holic.

Not sure what to do.

What can you do?

Is sole custody the best solution for your son and you? Is there something that makes you nervous about sole custody? How would you feel if you got it at your next court appearance instead of your lawyer having to put together a document stating why? Maybe it is obvious to all that you've tried to make some kind of joint custody work, but you couldn't because of your ex's behavior. (I think you bent over backwards trying to make it work--not a bad thing, but a good thing about you).

Are you nervous about sole custody? If so, why? If not, what is it that is making you nervous?

Hugs,  

AnotherPheonix  

[livednlearned]

Thanks AP   

Nice to hear from you again!

I'm not at all nervous about sole custody. Holy moly!

Not. Nervous. One. Bit. 

But I'm nervous about saying buh-bye to the PC, because it looks like I didn't have faith in her. I did, but I don't have faith in N/BPDx. I don't think any PC will work because he is ill. But do I say that? I don't have an objective psych eval to show that he is disordered. I have just given up on him. Big time.

So then there is no PC. No third- party to monitor the crazy, and the scary. Then I'm on my own, and I am nervous about that. I don't know what's best: pay for a PC who doesn't make a difference, or fly solo and deal only with the courts when there is a problem.

The PC didn't do much (because of N/BPDx's behavior, not hers), although I recognize that the hearing is good for the overall strategy. She is a highly respected PC who cannot work with this case. That's a strong message to send to the judge.

[seeking balance]

The PC didn't do much (because of N/BPDx's behavior, not hers), although I recognize that the hearing is good for the overall strategy. She is a highly respected PC who cannot work with this case. That's a strong message to send to the judge.

Have your attorney show the direct correlation between PC's testimony (rage) and the EFFECTS this will have on your kid.  Sorry, don't know if son or daughter, but be prepared with outcomes of parental rage and this is why you should have sole custody.

[AnotherPhoenix]

Thanks AP   

Nice to hear from you again!

I'm not at all nervous about sole custody. Holy moly!

Not. Nervous. One. Bit. 

Fantastic!

But I'm nervous about saying buh-bye to the PC, because it looks like I didn't have faith in her. I did, but I don't have faith in N/BPDx. I don't think any PC will work because he is ill. But do I say that? I don't have an objective psych eval to show that he is disordered. I have just given up on him. Big time.

You aren't the one calling it quits, the PC is. That doesn't sound like you didn't have faith in her. You've tried it with one of the best in your area; it sounds reasonable to me to think that trying another PC would be a waste of time and money to everyone. Perhaps your lawyer could say that you don't think another PC would work, but if the court insists, you would do your best to make it work.

So then there is no PC. No third- party to monitor the crazy, and the scary. Then I'm on my own, and I am nervous about that. I don't know what's best: pay for a PC who doesn't make a difference, or fly solo and deal only with the courts when there is a problem.

Hmm. Obviously, there is a problem with NPDex. That is why the PC route was tried. During that time, you had some "protection"--through the PC being an impartial witness to what was happening. Now, you are feeling unsafe again, because without the PC, even though she couldn't do much more than be amazed by NPDex's behavior, you are left to deal with it alone.

You need protection that a PC can't give you, right? To reduce the conflict. The PC tried, and she couldn't. She said so. So it sounds like sole custody is the only untried method. Then you don't need his approval to make decisions, which should help reduce the conflict. Am I correct?

As you said, without the PC, you feel very alone and exposed when dealing NPDex, which, I imagine, would be very scary. Won't sole custody reduce the times when you have to deal with NPDex? Even so, I imagine that, for a while, it will feel scary. You will have your lawyer around if you need help. And, you have friends you can call on if you need help. And then, you have you. Look how well you've done standing up to NPDex! Isn't that why NPDex is acting out so much--because you are doing so well and standing up to him?

Yep. I understand that it will feel scary. But you know what to do. You can handle it. (I've started saying "you can handle it" to myself, but I still sound like it was going to be extremely handle "it", even when it really would be fairly easy. So, I started saying "you can easily handle it" instead  . Saying that really helps me when I'm feeling insecure about a situation.) Perhaps, you can easily handle it. Or, it won't be as bad as you fear. You've got a lot more resources now, including a stronger you, that will help you easily handle anything NPDex throws at you.

Seeking Balances suggestion sounds very good for making a case for giving you sole custody.

AnotherPheonix 

[livednlearned]

The PC didn't do much (because of N/BPDx's behavior, not hers), although I recognize that the hearing is good for the overall strategy. She is a highly respected PC who cannot work with this case. That's a strong message to send to the judge.

Have your attorney show the direct correlation between PC's testimony (rage) and the EFFECTS this will have on your kid.  Sorry, don't know if son or daughter, but be prepared with outcomes of parental rage and this is why you should have sole custody.

Good point, thanks SB. I asked about this today today -- the PC's request to withdraw points to that category in which N/BPDx's difficult adult behavior does not necessarily demonstrate harmful effects on S11. My L said that S11's T told the PC that he has been doing SO much better, and my L suspects it is because visiting N/BPDxh has been limited. But S11's T will not testify, so that info is basically anecdotal, and can't be used in court.

The PC will have shared the nature of the threats with the judge during the hearing, so my L said she will make the case that the PC's experience is identical to mine, and that this is a pattern of behavior. My L said that she is going to make a case for sole custody based on:

* my track record of providing consistent, stable full-time care for S11

* N/BPDx's rage issues 2.5 years after date of separation is a sign of more serious issues that affect his ability to parent effectively and co-parent at all.

[livednlearned]

You need protection that a PC can't give you, right? To reduce the conflict. The PC tried, and she couldn't. She said so. So it sounds like sole custody is the only untried method. Then you don't need his approval to make decisions, which should help reduce the conflict. Am I correct?

As you said, without the PC, you feel very alone and exposed when dealing NPDex, which, I imagine, would be very scary. Won't sole custody reduce the times when you have to deal with NPDex? Even so, I imagine that, for a while, it will feel scary. You will have your lawyer around if you need help. And, you have friends you can call on if you need help. And then, you have you. Look how well you've done standing up to NPDex! Isn't that why NPDex is acting out so much--because you are doing so well and standing up to him?

I need protection, I want to feel safe. Can a third-party give me that? Probably not. Any sane PC is going to see the same behavior from N/BPDx, and any way you look at it, his behavior is wacky. Sometimes it's scary. If this PC doesn't want to work with us, I don't see that any of them will. Many times I felt like the PC was putting the decision back in my court, anyway. It was helpful to think through some of the more bizarre scenarios, but for the most part, she knew we were trying to predict unpredictable behavior.

What I need is a fairy godmother 

Sole custody is the only untried method, yes. It is apparently very, very difficult to get in my state. But I like how reasonable you make it sound 

As for why N/BPDx is acting out -- I don't know if it's because I'm doing so well. I think it's because he's getting worse. His behavior seems more ill, more disordered, more self-sabotaging. But he's also under more scrutiny, and not the good kind where he gets to perform for an adoring audience.

[AnotherPhoenix]

I need protection, I want to feel safe. Can a third-party give me that? Probably not. Any sane PC is going to see the same behavior from N/BPDx, and any way you look at it, his behavior is wacky. Sometimes it's scary. If this PC doesn't want to work with us, I don't see that any of them will. Many times I felt like the PC was putting the decision back in my court, anyway. It was helpful to think through some of the more bizarre scenarios, but for the most part, she knew we were trying to predict unpredictable behavior.

What I need is a fairy godmother 

Sole custody is the only untried method, yes. It is apparently very, very difficult to get in my state. But I like how reasonable you make it sound 

As for why N/BPDx is acting out -- I don't know if it's because I'm doing so well. I think it's because he's getting worse. His behavior seems more ill, more disordered, more self-sabotaging. But he's also under more scrutiny, and not the good kind where he gets to perform for an adoring audience.

What I need is a fairy godmother 

You do: Your lawyer!  (I hope that was funny  )

I understand your concern. Sole custody for you is reasonable to us who know about NPD/BPD behaviors, but courts have their own ideas about what's reasonable. Fortunately, it sounds like your godmother, I mean lawyer, knows the court's definition of reasonable. It sounds like she and you have a plan that is working well.

This whole situation is one that can cause your ex to act out, which he already is doing.

You've shown that you know how to take care of yourself, and I'm sure you have a safety plan if you feel you need to execute one.

As I said in an earlier post, "Saying I can easily handle it," helps me overcome worry about how difficult something might be, or worry about a outcome I don't want. The more positive you are about being able to handle what your NPD will dish out the less your ex will dish out and the easier it will be to handle.

If you need help just relaxing and letting go of the worry--worry won't help--here's something that helps me with letting go when I've done all that I reasonable can: I meditate using the mantra "let go and let god", saying it 5 or 6 times, and then quietly envisioning myself resting while being held up by the world--people, trees, grass, clouds--all of it.

,

AnotherPheonix   

[livednlearned]

If you need help just relaxing and letting go of the worry--worry won't help--here's something that helps me with letting go when I've done all that I reasonable can: I meditate using the mantra "let go and let god", saying it 5 or 6 times, and then quietly envisioning myself resting while being held up by the world--people, trees, grass, clouds--all of it.

Maybe that's all I can do right now, just let go. I can sometimes disassociate when I'm overwhelmed, and I think the rarity of the PC withdrawing is tripping my wire. Deep breath, deep breath, deep breath.

So I'm trying to make sure I pay attention to things now while it's relatively easy to think, because during the hearing I know that I'll sort of freeze up a bit.

I've been doing ok for a while now. But in the past 10 days I suddenly developed some severe muscle tightness in my neck and shoulders. I can barely look right or left! I've been dealing with the stress by getting at least 30 min of exercise every day and taking 10 min every hour to just close my eyes and breathe and try to relax. I'm eating healthy. I see friends. Maybe there's just a limit when it all gets to be too much.  :'(

My L can't be my fairy godmother unless she starts to do this work for free.    Then she can be FG.

[ForeverDad]

Sole custody is the only untried method, yes. It is apparently very, very difficult to get in my state. But I like how reasonable you make it sound 

So many other options have been tried and failed, there's not much left.  At some point the judge has to accept that strong measures are needed.  Pussyfooting around the issue won't resolve the problems  Son has another 6~7 years and firm boundaries need to be in place so you don't have to keep running back to court for band-aids.  Having a T monitoring things is even less empowered than a PC.  What is needed is an ironclad order he can't subvert or reinterpret.

I presume ex's income is good?  Then he ought to be funding the expenses, in addition to child support and alimony.  Now's not the time to be nice, forgiving or quiet about the financial aspects too.

As for why N/BPDx is acting out -- I don't know if it's because I'm doing so well. I think it's because he's getting worse. His behavior seems more ill, more disordered, more self-sabotaging. But he's also under more scrutiny, and not the good kind where he gets to perform for an adoring audience.

Courts are usually slow to give up waiting for a settlement.  However, if a PC - by all accounts the most experienced PC available - can't succeed, then anything less than court won't work either.  Having a PC is usually seen as one step down from court authority.  I don't think there's anything less.

If possible, get an order that grants you wide latitude in decision making, let it be him to make protests to the court to determine if you're being unreasonable or not.

Also, address the possibility that you may move away.  How would that affect visitation?  Giving him  school vacations and a few weeks extra during the summer just won't work, visits need to be kept short and almost conditional based upon his behaviors.

[AnotherPhoenix]

Maybe that's all I can do right now, just let go. I can sometimes disassociate when I'm overwhelmed, and I think the rarity of the PC withdrawing is tripping my wire. Deep breath, deep breath, deep breath.

You probably learned to be hypervigilant when you were growing up, and then this was reinforced during your marriage with NPDex. This is part of the thrill ride of life. Let yourself experience it. It is just part of life. Scary, yes, but part of being alive. Just think, some people put themselves in more dangerous situations than yours just to experience the thrill!

So I'm trying to make sure I pay attention to things now while it's relatively easy to think, because during the hearing I know that I'll sort of freeze up a bit.

Freezing up in a hearing. I haven't been in a hearing lately, but I had a short conversation with my lawyer, about 30 minutes. I didn't freeze up, but the conversation wasn't easy, and as it wore on I started stuttering and feeling more and more anxious. She's a pushy one. She's good about telling me I "have" to do something and making it hard to tell her no. Which I did because I won't have the time to do it. I was able to get her to listen to me some, but I have some concerns. I'll send her an email about that in the morning.

I've been doing ok for a while now. But in the past 10 days I suddenly developed some severe muscle tightness in my neck and shoulders. I can barely look right or left! I've been dealing with the stress by getting at least 30 min of exercise every day and taking 10 min every hour to just close my eyes and breathe and try to relax. I'm eating healthy. I see friends. Maybe there's just a limit when it all gets to be too much.  :'(

Wow! You are doing great with the exercise and stress relief. You are eating healthy! I'm 50/50 on those things. You have friends! That you see! I have friends, but I don't see them as much as would be good for me. Stress has made a traveling tour of my body a couple of times in the last 3 years. My chest muscles used to twitch (never turned on any ladies, tho  ), and my temple muscles still twitch every now and then (hasn't scared away any ladies  ). I had tight shoulders for about 6 months: My problem wasn't turning my head (wow!)--I couldn't look up.

You are coming down the home stretch! Go, go, go!  

My L can't be my fairy godmother unless she starts to do this work for free.    Then she can be FG. [/quote]
Wow. I laughed out loud on that one!   Thank you. Last night I giggled out loud (can you imagine a 53 year-old guy giggling like an 8 year-old?).

Is something between your current custody status and sole custody that the court might agree to that would reduce the conflict with NPDex and costly court appearances and allow NPDex to save face (he's a narcissist). If NPDex would agree to something like that in front of the court, then the court would probably go along with it. Perhaps you could get the court to require that all communications go through our family wizard (or your lawyers). Then all exchanges would be documented.

Have a great night,

AnotherPheonix    

[FamilyLaw]

Here's how I'd deal with this if I were your lawyer.  I would not agree to allow PC to step out.  I'd be very apologetic, but I would say that she is the most experienced, best PC available.  If she is having difficulties with this case, it is highly unlikely that anyone else will be more successful.  Having no PC would leave your son at risk for an even more chaotic situation, given the issues.  Therefore it is in the child's best interest to retain the PC.

However, if the Court feels that it must let the PC out of her contract, the Court needs to put protections in place for your son.  The most obvious one is supervised or therapeutic contact with ex.

[DreamGirl]

However, if the Court feels that it must let the PC out of her contract, the Court needs to put protections in place for your son.  The most obvious one is supervised or therapeutic contact with ex.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking.

You need a third party.

If the PC can't do it... .  someone has to.

[tog]

What if they kept joint custody with you have final decision making, and you two have to communicate through Our Family Wizard.

You could agree to approach him with any major decisions but if he obstructs/refuses/disagrees, you get to make it. And no communication that isn't documented through OFW.

My SO has a similar dilemma... .  they have a co-parent counselor who is copied in on all emails. Sitting with his STBXW during the actual counseling is unmitigated torture for him, but having her read the emails keeps stbxw from being abusive and from trying to stop SS13 from his parenting time with us. But he can't do it forever... .  he can't afford it emotionally or financially.

In our case stbxw already has what I described above: final decision making. We just want to minimize the interference with our time and the abusive emails.

The judge can't continue to expect you two to co-parent, that's crazy.

[ForeverDad]

IF even a PC can't make it work, then how could joint custody ever work?  Yes, decision-making or tie-breaker would make it nearly the same as sole custody, but that would just leave too much room for ex to cause endless problems.

Sole custody is not the same as removing ex's parental rights.  Don't let it get confused with that.  One parent can have sole custody and the other parent can still have appropriate (and conditional) visitation.

If a PC can't or won't do it then all that's left is the court itself.  The problem is that court won't do the level of involvement that a PC can do.  You need something strong in place to handle the next several years.

Family Law's comment was spot on.  If PC is let go, then who or what steps into those shoes?

However, if the Court feels that it must let the PC out of her contract, the Court needs to put protections in place for your son.  The most obvious one is supervised or therapeutic contact with ex.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking.

You need a third party.

If the PC can't do it... .  someone has to.

[tog]

My point was that if the court is unlikely to do sole custody (she said it's rare in her state) maybe they would do joint with her having decision-making, which is sole custody in disguise.

I'm very sympathetic to being out of money and unwilling/unable to spend anymore.

[seeking balance]

Give the judge a reason to make it sole custody - serve it on a platter.

The PC who is the best in the state wants to withdraw - if she cannot handle this, who really can then?

The courts do not want to continue to see you - with joint custody, you will be a regular fixture there, remind the judge of this fact.

Your child's life outcomes from a disruptive parent are lessened - talk to a child T and use data here to make your case.  Your child's T is not necessarily necessary... .  use national data of likely outcomes.  Use the financial, emotional and spiritual damage that is indirectly caused on your child by continued court battles - the only way to stop the court battle is to award sole custody to you as you have shown fair judgement and you will continue to agree to the terms of visitation.

There have been cases in your state that awarded sole custody - what were the circumstances?  Use this data.

The PC wanting out of your case can be the very thing that solidify's sole custody - use it to your advantage.

[DreamGirl]

***crossed with the fabulous advice of SB

It does vary state to state.

I read an article recently that said that Judges are showing a pattern of going back to allocating sole custody to one parent because the court's dockets are inundated with parents who just can't agree.

I have sole decision making for both my sons (older one was awarded, younger one was in agreement). I don't have to even consult in regards to major decisions, but I do anyways. It works well in reducing conflict because it allocates the power to one person. I've only "enforced" that "right" once - when my youngest son was held back in first grade.

I have a colleague who has joint/final. Which means that she does have to consult him but if they don't agree, she has the final say. (Probably like tog's situation) She also has never enforced it and her ex is a real piece of work himself. She's learned skills to communicate with him so that he doesn't feel so powerless.

I feel like the major issues in LnL's situation are in regards to scheduling?

What are the other issues that the PC is needed for?

~DG

[hithere]

You need a PC with arbitration powers or an arbitrator that can make binding decisions.  Does your lawyer think this is an option? To get a judge to rule that you guys use an arbitrator for binding decisions instead of going to court?

[AnotherPhoenix]

As

***crossed with the fabulous advice of SB

It does vary state to state.

I read an article recently that said that Judges are showing a pattern of going back to allocating sole custody to one parent because the court's dockets are inundated with parents who just can't agree.

I have sole decision making for both my sons (older one was awarded, younger one was in agreement). I don't have to even consult in regards to major decisions, but I do anyways. It works well in reducing conflict because it allocates the power to one person. I've only "enforced" that "right" once - when my youngest son was held back in first grade.

I have a colleague who has joint/final. Which means that she does have to consult him but if they don't agree, she has the final say. (Probably like tog's situation) She also has never enforced it and her ex is a real piece of work himself. She's learned skills to communicate with him so that he doesn't feel so powerless.

I feel like the major issues in LnL's situation are in regards to scheduling?

What are the other issues that the PC is needed for?

~DG

I'm thinking that maybe something like this might work. It should reduce the conflict. As Foreverdad pointed out, she can still allow S to visit NPDex, but since she has the final say, she has the power to resolve the conflict. NPDex might approve of it since he gets to save face by having LNL consult with him first. Since this is a compromise between LNL's current arrangement and just sole custody that give LNL the authority she needs to reduce the conflict and still isn't quite "sole custody", then the courts might agree to it as well.

Would this work?

LNL, has your L been giving you any more information?

AnotherPheonix 

Happy Valentine's Day! 

[tog]

Having read ":)on't Alienate the Kids," I'm feeling more inclined to moderate behaviors.

So if LnL goes in and says she would like joint custody with her having final decision-making, she will communicate all through OFW but promises to include him in decision making, maybe he would settle or it would make sense to the judge.

In our case, do we like uN/BPDstbx having final say? NO. But... .  it's better than fighting endlessly and someone has to make the decisions. She is unlikely to take him to a shaman or join the Church of Scientology and in reality, she is going to make all the damn decisions anyway, given her strong N traits. Maybe it will give SS13 some respite from the fighting.

I think going in and demanding sole custody will just give N/BPDex more stamina to fight. Let him save face. Let him say he has "joint custody" just as we are letting stbxw say she has "final decision making". Whatever. She can't control our time with him and that's what matters.

[livednlearned]

Wow, ok thanks everyone for your feedback here.

So let's see.

SB -- serve the judge sole custody on a platter. I agree. This is what I'm thinking: Don't release PC from her contract. Tell the judge: I cannot work with N/BPDx, and one of your best PCs cannot either. His pattern of behavior is to threaten when he disagrees, and to obstruct things he has agreed to in court documents. N/BPDx's own L has withdrawn. I don't want another PC, I want sole custody. I have three reasonable requests that N/BPDx is obstructing, and it takes a PC, a judge, and my L to get anything done. Sole custody would minimize the conflict and that is best for the child.

One possible outcome is what tog and DG said:  joint legal, joint physical, with me getting sole decision-making.  That's what our courts prefer to do. Sole custody is less common, but it happens. I want sole custody because it allows me to visit my family in Canada. Sole custody is what Canadian customs officials recognize. Otherwise I have to get permission from N/BPDx (which is stated in the CO), and twice already he has shown that he will obstruct me from traveling with S11. Anywhere.

SB, good idea to look at other examples of sole custody in my state. I suspect gross negligence or abandonment by one parent, but maybe high-conflict is also a precedent.

hithere -- an arbitrator might be raised as a possibility, but N/BPDx has already shown that he does not follow court orders. I doubt an arbitrated decision would be any different. At this point, I am thinking it is better for the court to see that N/BPDx is going to be their problem so they do the right thing. Pushing him off to an arbitrator is going to cost me money and take up my time. I want it to cost them money and take up their time. Then they'll do something.

As for whether or not I need a third party. Sigh. Yes, I do. But I don't want to pay for it. It's comforting, but not effective. And I'm broke broke broke. I've learned how to deal with the stress and anxiety, and how to live with the fear. I'm doing well overall. Guys, I'm even dating.  

I'm going to insist on having PC stay involved (for strategic reasons listed above), but the truth is a 3rd party isn't going to do much except help me get sole custody. So I'll work it in my favor until that happens, but if I had sole custody, honestly can't see the point of having someone involved.

[AnotherPhoenix]

This is what I'm thinking: Don't release PC from her contract. Tell the judge: I cannot work with N/BPDx, and one of your best PCs cannot either. His pattern of behavior is to threaten when he disagrees, and to obstruct things he has agreed to in court documents. N/BPDx's own L has withdrawn. I don't want another PC, I want sole custody. I have three reasonable requests that N/BPDx is obstructing, and it takes a PC, a judge, and my L to get anything done. Sole custody would minimize the conflict and that is best for the child.

One possible outcome is what tog and DG said:  joint legal, joint physical, with me getting sole decision-making.  That's what our courts prefer to do. Sole custody is less common, but it happens. I want sole custody because it allows me to visit my family in Canada. Sole custody is what Canadian customs officials recognize. Otherwise I have to get permission from N/BPDx (which is stated in the CO), and twice already he has shown that he will obstruct me from traveling with S11. Anywhere.

Nicely stated. Very well thought out.

I understand about wanting to hold PC to her contract. I been thinking about how unprotected you felt when you thought about not having PC, So, it does sound like she made a difference. Maybe she couldn't get NPD to stop his behavior, but it sounds like she was a help to you by being able to advise you and to be a witness to NPD's behavior. It sounded like some of the time the PC was able to be a buffer between you and NPD.

Are you planning to use the PC when the court grants you sole custody?



AnotherPheonix



SB, good idea to look at other examples of sole custody in my state. I suspect gross negligence or abandonment by one parent, but maybe high-conflict is also a precedent.

hithere -- an arbitrator might be raised as a possibility, but N/BPDx has already shown that he does not follow court orders. I doubt an arbitrated decision would be any different. At this point, I am thinking it is better for the court to see that N/BPDx is going to be their problem so they do the right thing. Pushing him off to an arbitrator is going to cost me money and take up my time. I want it to cost them money and take up their time. Then they'll do something.

As for whether or not I need a third party. Sigh. Yes, I do. But I don't want to pay for it. It's comforting, but not effective. And I'm broke broke broke. I've learned how to deal with the stress and anxiety, and how to live with the fear. I'm doing well overall. Guys, I'm even dating.  

I'm going to insist on having PC stay involved (for strategic reasons listed above), but the truth is a 3rd party isn't going to do much except help me get sole custody. So I'll work it in my favor until that happens, but if I had sole custody, honestly can't see the point of having someone involved. [/quote]

[david]

I think sole custody and supervised visitation is the only way to protect child. If ex wants an arbitrator then let ex pay for it otherwise you have decision making power and ex can take you to court when he diagrees provided he pay for everything if it goes in your favor. The consequences for ex should restrain him and if they don't let him spend all his money.

[Matt]

Here's how I'd deal with this if I were your lawyer.  I would not agree to allow PC to step out.  I'd be very apologetic, but I would say that she is the most experienced, best PC available.  If she is having difficulties with this case, it is highly unlikely that anyone else will be more successful.  Having no PC would leave your son at risk for an even more chaotic situation, given the issues.  Therefore it is in the child's best interest to retain the PC.

However, if the Court feels that it must let the PC out of her contract, the Court needs to put protections in place for your son.  The most obvious one is supervised or therapeutic contact with ex.

Difficult situation but good from everyone.  I agree that this is probably a good time to ask for primary custody.

I wonder about the format of the hearing;  specifically, whether your lawyer might have the opportunity to ask the PC some questions, to get her to elaborate and make very clear the specific behaviors of the other party that have caused her to want to give up, and to get her to repeat that this is the first time she's ever asked to be let out of a contract - basically make a very clear case that the other party's behavior is very extreme and even a proven professional can't deal with it effectively.

Then your lawyer might make the case that if an experienced professional can't deal with your ex, it's not reasonable to expect you to deal with him from a position of weakness - like needing his agreement so you can travel - and it's even less reasonable to expect a child to deal with him without supervision.

Use this as an opportunity to make a super-strong case - with the PC doing the talking - that this is not someone who can act right consistently, and it's not in the child's interest to be under his control.