Trying to figure out if she was a compulsive liar, had BPD, etc.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

hi.

i dont know if my ex was BPD or not. but i feel like she was something, even though I always said there was nothing wrong with her and always supported her and attended to her to an extent that any other girl would have thought i was the perfect bf.

i'm trying to figure out if she was a compulsive liar, had BPD, or just had depression or something.

she's 34 now. she went through a lot in life. i remember her telling me that she was raped when she was 21, ( i wonder if that was true), she has fibromyalgia, lost her mother 6 years ago, and lives a stressful life. so i feel like there had to be some sort of chaos in her head.

she divorced 5 years ago... .  she was having an affair for like 2 years during that. even texted her affair on the night of her honeymoon.  they she left the marriage. then she had a couple affairs on her original affair.  eventually one of them was me. then she told me she wouldnt go back to him, but kept doing so. i, like a fool, kept taking her back. i remember she dumped me the day before my bday, (new years eve) to spend NYE with her affair.

eventually i think the craziness wore off on me. after being cheated on and lied to so many times, i eventually emailed that person and told him everything. he thanked me and ended things with her. i wish i had his strength. i kept taking her back. and we would break up like once a week, and she went and tried to start relationships with 3 other guys. every time she got dumped, she would come crying back to me with some sob story, and i would always think things were my fault. i would always accept blame, and she is so great at playing the victim... .  

anyway, eventually she left me for good one night, because she jsut met some other guy and wanted things to work between them. she told me she wanted a fresh start.

she would break up and get back together with that guy often, though she told me she never cheated on him, and was the first guy she never cheated on.  anyway, there were 3-4 of their breakups that she would come crying to me, and pretty much just use me for a night or until she got back together with him.

the fact that i kept taking her back, i wonder if i'm the one with BPD or something. it is at the point where i know the passwords to her email, and i check it to make sure she wasnt trying to sneak anything past me.

anyway, the past 4-5 months, its been the same thing. she says she wants to be with me and try to make it work, but then every 2 weeks or so, she emails her ex apologizing and trying to get back together.  he never replies. she has even bought stuff like nutrition bars and photo albums and sent them to his apartment.  i wonder why she never did that stuff for me. maybe i was always just a rebound guy for her.  anyway, 4 weeks ago, i dumped her saying i cant do it anymore, and that she should have waiting to get over her ex before trying to make things work with me.  a week later she called crying and blamed me for not being patient enough. i always wonder how am i supposed to be patient when youre still evidently trying to get back together with him... .  anyway, she made promises to try to make it work, and i again, took her back, and then the very next day, i see in her email that she is still planning on meeting up with someone who she made plans with earlier in the week when we were broken up.  i would have thought she could respect me enough to cancel those plans after she's the one that came crying back to me.  that night i confronted her on it, telling her i knew she went out cause of the way she was acting (i didnt reveal i knew her email password), and she kept denying it, and kept saying to prove it. i just told her that i've been through this before with you and have no doubt she went out ( i really have no doubt, considering she emailed him updates on when she was on her way to the restaurant, etc)  anyway... .  she cried, and did her usual suicidal threats, and this and that. i didnt answer her calls or anything. just shut off my phone. the next morning she sent this email, which i include cause i wonder how she can still carry on the lie and i feel like she's putting all the blame on me, but i'm not sure:

subject: today i wanted to really tell you!

I have learned and grown a lot in these 5 years. I realized in life we all make mistakes but it is not about that. The question is are we continued to make the same mistakes again and again. The mistake we made is to try to make this work between us. It was possible,if your wounds were not so deep and yes part of is created by me.I want to take a moment to apologize to you for that. I am sorry for all the hurt I caused you in your life especially before I started to change and improve.

Also, after last night i realized that you cannot ever trust me. That is okay. You see because I am on the right path, it doesnt bother me anymore. Again, I reacted with anger and hurt last night b/c i am attached to you and when you accuse me,it causes me pain and makes me more aware of why we arent working. You may have good gut feelings or what not. Again,in past those gut feelings kept you and they were true. I cannot not make you understand or tell you how you should feel.

Today I am sick(again not blaming you at all) but bc i was crying last night and angry and i did that to myself. It also made me aware how unhealthy you and i are to each other.

The reason I know i am changed and for better is bc i have to practice it everyday to be moral. To be a good person and i will continue in my path. the most important thing i learned is i need to work on my anger and focus on me now. You take care of yourself.

Just remember,you do not need a reason to let go of your smoking for someone else. You should care enough for your health and how smoking is and can cause a potential health hazards in future.

M


i dont know what else to say.  since we broke up, and every time she breaks up with me or anyone, she goes on match.com and tries to find a new relationship right away. she cant be alone. when we were together, she gave me so much love and affection, but also sometimes would flip out over stupid stuff, even if i was being as polite as could be, knowing that she is very sensitive.  i also think she is very controlling.  tells me how i should wear my hair, or what to wear, etc. i would always just do whatever she wanted cause i'm an indifferent guy and wanted to please her.  

anyway, a week after we broke up this last time, she starts talking to this surgeon in florida, (we live in new jersey), after like one long phone call, the next day, she books a $600 ticket to florida to spend the 14th-17th at his place.  while she is there, she is emailing with some other guy back in nj about meeting on tuesday for dinner... .  (i dont know if this is just how some people date after a breakup or if she's a slut or what) i'm 30, she's 34.  

anyway. i dont know. i feel like a lost a bit of myself, a bit of my sanity and just do things i wouldn't do (like stalk her)... .  i dont know if that's the way i am, or if that's how i've become throughout this relationship with her (such a messed up relationship)  she's been violent with me several times, i remember on 2 occasions while i was driving 40mph, she kept punching me in the head and twice got her knuckle in my eye (that i was able to maintain control of the car i find impressive)... .  ( i dont know if she just has anger problems and not BPD?)

i also know there were times when she would tell me she wasnt ready for sex because she was still hurting over her relationship, and really only gave it to me when she wanted to (and i wonder how she was always ready to give to someone else and not me?) it made it hard for me to not be insecure... .  

i wrote a lot... .  obviously a lot has been on my mind, and i'm trying to move on, but i still worry that i would take her back if she contacted me.  (there is no way in hell i am going to contact her, but i worry about becoming weak if she contacts me)

any thoughts or anything would be helpful to me... .  

thanks

[fakename]

hi.

i dont know if my ex was BPD or not. but i feel like she was something, even though I always said there was nothing wrong with her and always supported her and attended to her to an extent that any other girl would have thought i was the perfect bf.

i'm trying to figure out if she was a compulsive liar, had BPD, or just had depression or something.

she's 34 now. she went through a lot in life. i remember her telling me that she was raped when she was 21, ( i wonder if that was true), she has fibromyalgia, lost her mother 6 years ago, and lives a stressful life. so i feel like there had to be some sort of chaos in her head.

she divorced 5 years ago... .  she was having an affair for like 2 years during that. even texted her affair on the night of her honeymoon.  they she left the marriage. then she had a couple affairs on her original affair.  eventually one of them was me. then she told me she wouldnt go back to him, but kept doing so. i, like a fool, kept taking her back. i remember she dumped me the day before my bday, (new years eve) to spend NYE with her affair.

eventually i think the craziness wore off on me. after being cheated on and lied to so many times, i eventually emailed that person and told him everything. he thanked me and ended things with her. i wish i had his strength. i kept taking her back. and we would break up like once a week, and she went and tried to start relationships with 3 other guys. every time she got dumped, she would come crying back to me with some sob story, and i would always think things were my fault. i would always accept blame, and she is so great at playing the victim... .  

anyway, eventually she left me for good one night, because she jsut met some other guy and wanted things to work between them. she told me she wanted a fresh start.

she would break up and get back together with that guy often, though she told me she never cheated on him, and was the first guy she never cheated on.  anyway, there were 3-4 of their breakups that she would come crying to me, and pretty much just use me for a night or until she got back together with him.

the fact that i kept taking her back, i wonder if i'm the one with BPD or something. it is at the point where i know the passwords to her email, and i check it to make sure she wasnt trying to sneak anything past me.

anyway, the past 4-5 months, its been the same thing. she says she wants to be with me and try to make it work, but then every 2 weeks or so, she emails her ex apologizing and trying to get back together.  he never replies. she has even bought stuff like nutrition bars and photo albums and sent them to his apartment.  i wonder why she never did that stuff for me. maybe i was always just a rebound guy for her.  anyway, 4 weeks ago, i dumped her saying i cant do it anymore, and that she should have waiting to get over her ex before trying to make things work with me.  a week later she called crying and blamed me for not being patient enough. i always wonder how am i supposed to be patient when youre still evidently trying to get back together with him... .  anyway, she made promises to try to make it work, and i again, took her back, and then the very next day, i see in her email that she is still planning on meeting up with someone who she made plans with earlier in the week when we were broken up.  i would have thought she could respect me enough to cancel those plans after she's the one that came crying back to me.  that night i confronted her on it, telling her i knew she went out cause of the way she was acting (i didnt reveal i knew her email password), and she kept denying it, and kept saying to prove it. i just told her that i've been through this before with you and have no doubt she went out ( i really have no doubt, considering she emailed him updates on when she was on her way to the restaurant, etc)  anyway... .  she cried, and did her usual suicidal threats, and this and that. i didnt answer her calls or anything. just shut off my phone. the next morning she sent this email, which i include cause i wonder how she can still carry on the lie and i feel like she's putting all the blame on me, but i'm not sure:

subject: today i wanted to really tell you!

I have learned and grown a lot in these 5 years. I realized in life we all make mistakes but it is not about that. The question is are we continued to make the same mistakes again and again. The mistake we made is to try to make this work between us. It was possible,if your wounds were not so deep and yes part of is created by me.I want to take a moment to apologize to you for that. I am sorry for all the hurt I caused you in your life especially before I started to change and improve.

Also, after last night i realized that you cannot ever trust me. That is okay. You see because I am on the right path, it doesnt bother me anymore. Again, I reacted with anger and hurt last night b/c i am attached to you and when you accuse me,it causes me pain and makes me more aware of why we arent working. You may have good gut feelings or what not. Again,in past those gut feelings kept you and they were true. I cannot not make you understand or tell you how you should feel.

Today I am sick(again not blaming you at all) but bc i was crying last night and angry and i did that to myself. It also made me aware how unhealthy you and i are to each other.

The reason I know i am changed and for better is bc i have to practice it everyday to be moral. To be a good person and i will continue in my path. the most important thing i learned is i need to work on my anger and focus on me now. You take care of yourself.

Just remember,you do not need a reason to let go of your smoking for someone else. You should care enough for your health and how smoking is and can cause a potential health hazards in future.

M


i dont know what else to say.  since we broke up, and every time she breaks up with me or anyone, she goes on match.com and tries to find a new relationship right away. she cant be alone. when we were together, she gave me so much love and affection, but also sometimes would flip out over stupid stuff, even if i was being as polite as could be, knowing that she is very sensitive.  i also think she is very controlling.  tells me how i should wear my hair, or what to wear, etc. i would always just do whatever she wanted cause i'm an indifferent guy and wanted to please her.  

anyway, a week after we broke up this last time, she starts talking to this surgeon in florida, (we live in new jersey), after like one long phone call, the next day, she books a $600 ticket to florida to spend the 14th-17th at his place.  while she is there, she is emailing with some other guy back in nj about meeting on tuesday for dinner... .  (i dont know if this is just how some people date after a breakup or if she's a slut or what) i'm 30, she's 34.  

anyway. i dont know. i feel like a lost a bit of myself, a bit of my sanity and just do things i wouldn't do (like stalk her)... .  i dont know if that's the way i am, or if that's how i've become throughout this relationship with her (such a messed up relationship)  she's been violent with me several times, i remember on 2 occasions while i was driving 40mph, she kept punching me in the head and twice got her knuckle in my eye (that i was able to maintain control of the car i find impressive)... .  ( i dont know if she just has anger problems and not BPD?)

i also know there were times when she would tell me she wasnt ready for sex because she was still hurting over her relationship, and really only gave it to me when she wanted to (and i wonder how she was always ready to give to someone else and not me?) it made it hard for me to not be insecure... .  

i wrote a lot... .  obviously a lot has been on my mind, and i'm trying to move on, but i still worry that i would take her back if she contacted me.  (there is no way in hell i am going to contact her, but i worry about becoming weak if she contacts me)

any thoughts or anything would be helpful to me... .  

thanks

[Clearmind]

anyway. i dont know. i feel like a lost a bit of myself, a bit of my sanity and just do things i wouldn't do (like stalk her)... .  i dont know if that's the way i am, or if that's how i've become throughout this relationship with her (such a messed up relationship)  she's been violent with me several times, i remember on 2 occasions while i was driving 40mph, she kept punching me in the head and twice got her knuckle in my eye (that i was able to maintain control of the car i find impressive)... .  ( i dont know if she just has anger problems and not BPD?)

i also know there were times when she would tell me she wasnt ready for sex because she was still hurting over her relationship, and really only gave it to me when she wanted to (and i wonder how she was always ready to give to someone else and not me?) it made it hard for me to not be insecure... .  

i wrote a lot... .  obviously a lot has been on my mind, and i'm trying to move on, but i still worry that i would take her back if she contacted me.  (there is no way in hell i am going to contact her, but i worry about becoming weak if she contacts me)

Fakename, we cannot diagnose – the back story sounds pretty intense – are you able to look at the behaviors rather than a diagnoses. Many members on the board have undiagnosed loved ones.

Yes, you lost yourself – its temporary! You bent your own values and boundaries and morals so far you don’t know where she ends and you start. You were enmeshed.

Whether you get back or not is up to you. You maybe blaming yourself – this is natural. We bargain about whether it was us or them and how they will be with the next person. FN, you wrote a lot about her history and it seems there is a pattern here – of idealizing then devaluing partners – she seems unstable.

Patterns are patterns.

What are you holding onto? What part of the relationship are you holding onto?

[fakename]

clearmind, thanks so much for reading and responding.

could you elaborate on what you mean by looking at the behaviors rather than a diagnoses?

what am i holding onto?

that is SUCH a great question. and i dont really know.

i felt like we loved each other. i really loved her, and all her imperfections. i put in a lot of faith and believing in her and support that she was becoming a better person...

i guess i'm holding onto the physical aspect of the relationship. but also that i dont want her to get hurt by others, and that i want to be there to help her and love her.

i dont really know what i am holding onto. i know i didnt like parts of her personality, very controlling, everything had to be in her way, a negative person, mood swings, nothing was ever good enough for her and her lying and cheating.

but i did love that she is such a giving and caring person in some ways, and unselfish with everyone but me, i dont know. i also dont know if i'm just labelling her as someone with BPD when in truth it could be she just didnt care for me much and just used me as a rebound guy. but then i think back at the loving things she said, how she'd plan future, how she once called me after she watched some romantic movie and was crying hard about how she realized she took me for granted for so long and blah blah blah and then the very next morning, its back to her not knowing what she wants... .  does a normal person do that?

i dont know, maybe im just looking for some sort of answer to our dysfunctional relationship by saying she has BPD. maybe she doesnt, maybe she just doesnt know how to be in a relationship.

i have no idea about any of this

[Clearmind]

could you elaborate on what you mean by looking at the behaviors rather than a diagnoses?

Diagnosing a person with BPD is done by a professional. Many of us don’t have a diagnose of BPD to go by - therefore we need to look at the behaviors – the actions they are showing us. Your post certainly shows that a lot of her behaviors are unstable.

what am i holding onto?

that is SUCH a great question. and i dont really know.

i felt like we loved each other. i really loved her, and all her imperfections. i put in a lot of faith and believing in her and support that she was becoming a better person...

It can appear they are better some days and then not on others. This roller coaster ride is exhausting and we wait with baited breathe for a good day to swing by.

i guess i'm holding onto the physical aspect of the relationship. but also that i dont want her to get hurt by others, and that i want to be there to help her and love her.

Great observation! To clarify I’m not questioning whether you love her or not.

Often when we get into any relationship we don’t ask ourselves whether a person is compatible for us or not. Do they fit my values, morals, what I want in my life, are they supportive, do they allow me to be me, do they respect me, do trust them etc. We fly head on and ask questions later.

Compatibility comes in various forms – sexual compatibility is one aspect – emotional, spiritual are others. While we are undecided its easy to think about what we will miss – the sex possibility – what else does this relationship provide you with?

i dont really know what i am holding onto. i know i didnt like parts of her personality, very controlling, everything had to be in her way, a negative person, mood swings, nothing was ever good enough for her and her lying and cheating.

Great stuff and like you I felt the same about my exBF.

That’s a pretty big load of dislikes – the point of evaluating and detaching is also looking at the bigger picture. Does this person fit?

but i did love that she is such a giving and caring person in some ways, and unselfish with everyone but me, i dont know. i also dont know if i'm just labelling her as someone with BPD when in truth it could be she just didnt care for me much and just used me as a rebound guy. but then i think back at the loving things she said, how she'd plan future, how she once called me after she watched some romantic movie and was crying hard about how she realized she took me for granted for so long and blah blah blah and then the very next morning, its back to her not knowing what she wants... .  does a normal person do that?

How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves – see if this rings any bells!

Push/pull is common dynamic for a person with BPD or BPD traits – the attachment is a shaky one and it doesn’t take much for the pendulum to swing the other way. This is not your fault. She likely fears abandonment – therefore pulls you close – and then on the other hand she fears engulfment and intimacy – and will push you away.

i dont know, maybe im just looking for some sort of answer to our dysfunctional relationship by saying she has BPD. maybe she doesnt, maybe she just doesnt know how to be in a relationship.

i have no idea about any of this

Again fakename look at the behaviors – she has had a string of shaky relationships. Unfortunately my friend, this one is no different.

I do realize you are undecided – and that is OK – if you want to get back with her – by all means – that is up to you! Look at the actions

[fakename]

hey clearmind,

first off, that link of how a BPD love relationship evolves sounds a lot like what we went through, and also what her other relationships were like.

this morning was real tough for me. i know that if she came back, i would keep trying, even though i know i'm not the person i want to be when with her. i have to focus so much on her emotions and how she is doing, i always felt like it was a 24/7 job. i dont know if it is cause i have my own disorder in that i want to save what is unable to be saved, or that i'm just jealous that she might have a relationship with someone else and it'll be a normal relationship or that she gives herself to others who didnt give her as much as i did. i dont know.


when you say her behaviors are unstable, do a lot of people have these kind of behaviors? i'm struggling between whether i am just trying to label her as BPD to help me move on and regain my sanity, or whether she actual has some issues.  i've never been in a real relationship with anyone else, she was the first girl i thought i loved. and maybe that's what makes it tough too, that i dont want to give up.  i used to tell myself i'd never be with someone who was a liar or cheat and here i am 100 lies and cheats later, still wanting to be with her. its pathetic.


"Often when we get into any relationship we don’t ask ourselves whether a person is compatible for us or not. Do they fit my values, morals, what I want in my life, are they supportive, do they allow me to be me, do they respect me, do trust them etc. We fly head on and ask questions later."

- i'm gonna have to save that paragraph you wrote


i still dont know what i'll end up doing. i'm pretty sure she's gonna try to get into a relationsihp with this other guy i mentioned to you that she emailed.  it makes me sick that she can be so emotional and physical with so many others, its like what we had meant nothing. it's bad cause of all the nice things and affection she showed me. its like nothing is sacred.

i also wonder if i'm just an emotional reck and if i'm the one with issues.  i mean, i am the one stalking her emails...

[Clearmind]

we all come here with our own set of issues fakename - not everyone tries desperately to have a relationship with a Borderline. Does this mean we are BPD - no - it means we like to rescue, save someone else at the expense of saving ourselves.

I don't know you or your situation - however if your gut is telling you something is not up with her - listen to it. If you feel like you need to walk on eggshells - then your thoughts are most likely correct.

Where to from here? Keep posting, keep learning, read up on some of the workshops or go to the link at the top of the undecided board - which will direct you to the lessons.

If you plan on staying in this relationship, we need to be mindful that we cannot change them, they need to change when they are ready - this also means that we need to accept them - BPD or not - and not resent them for it. It takes a lot of emotional maturity to make things better and also requires us to learn a whole new set of communication skills.

It also requires us to concentrate on us - not neglect us, not allow ourselves to become isolated from family and friends etc - because this happens a lot.

Take care of you