Another porn issue

[GreenTea]

I read Vindi's thread on porn, but thought I'd start my own. My uBPDh has had issues with porn throughout our 15 year marriage; although I thought maybe they had ended. I am sick of the dishonesty. Seriously, a tube of lube naturally evaporates? And to think that I actually fell for that years ago. I've been yelled at when I've snipped videotapes, broke DVDs, recycled "mags." I don't want it in our house. He knows how I feel about it. He too says all guys do it and those that don't are lying.

A few days ago, my 5D and I were in the room beside him coloring. He was quiet, and I just got that "feeling." Quietly, I pushed the door open (it wasn't even shut just ajar), and found him with his jeans around his ankles frantically trying to click out of a site. I had no idea how to react. I stiffened and turned around. He's desperately apologizing, trying to get me to understand that he just wanted to get "rid of it." I was furious to begin with for catching him yet again (his excuse in previous times was that he wanted to get primed for us later that was with daughter and me upstairs playing/he downstairs on the computer.).  BUT... .  what would have happened if that would have been our DAUGHTER walking in on him? He kept saying how it was a stupid, foolish thing to do. I actually felt sorry for him.   He was in the NEXT ROOM in the afternoon! Is this normal?

The thing is for the 1st 10 years of our marriage he has always pulled out when we were intimate even when I was on the pill. It had always bothered me, but he was my first and only so I never really knew any different, and who in the world do you talk to somebody about that with? When I became pregnant (I refused to take the pill anymore since I desperately wanted kids--he did not) through an act of God, I finally experienced what the "real thing" was and didn't want anything more. That lasted until after a few months after our daughter's birth. True intimacy as far as cuddling after and everything that you see in movies has never been a part of us; although I long for it, crave it. I've been told by a counselor that porn would be a reason for this. He gratifies himself; therefore, that's all he sees sex as: self-gratification. I have tried to communicate to him that I need that emotional connection, but he takes that as I'm blaming him for being a terrible lover which is not the case. It's one of those topics of communication that is doomed for disaster before it begins. If he truly is afraid of intimacy, is this his way out of it yet he's still satisfied?

Our marriage is shaky as is. I should probably just draw the line and say if I see it again, we're through. The thing that really maddens me is that he was doing it in broad daylight when our daughter and I were in the next room. WHAT is that all about?  Is that a sign of addiction? Is this why he's not in the mood that frequently, never really has been? Even if it was true that he had a hard-on or whatever and wanted to get rid of it, why in the room beside us with the door ajar? And then to tell me that he looks at my picture but puts someone else's legs with it? THAT'S supposed to make me feel better?   He has profusely apologized. I accept it, but I don't trust him. He has told me that he doesn't do that stuff anymore, yet I find a bottle of lotion here or something there. Of course, he can justify anything away: dry skin, something he forgot about and didn't know was there, etc. Could this be an addiction?

[almost789]

Hi Green Tea,

Yes, it can be an addiction. It is a biological chemical addiction meaning it is fuled off of their own brain chemicals. Just like a drug addict, who doesn't want to do drugs anymore but can't stop. Please check out this site.

yourbrainonporn.com.

I don't understand the not closing the door thing. I would say he's an addict just from what you are saying here.

Sex/Porn addiction is actually a disorder of intimacy or an "intimacy disorder"

Please check out this video on Intimacy Disorder

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeXfs2A84Hs

Your husband gets upset when you tell him you need an emotional connection because he isn't capable of providing that to you.

[Vindi]

I don't want it in our house. He knows how I feel about it. He too says all guys do it and those that don't are lying.

Hi greenTea, huh don't you love it when they say ALL guys do it and those who don't are lying?... .  what a joke, well I've tt real live men who don't! and I know they are not lying. Heck not everyone in this world does things 100% of the time, that would make this world boring. Thing is, you told him that you "don't want it in your house"... .  he obviously didn't hear or listen to what you have said. Has this topic come up many times in the past 15 years or did you set boundaries in the beginning of your marriage?

I have tried to communicate to him that I need that emotional connection, but he takes that as I'm blaming him for being a terrible lover which is not the case. It's one of those topics of communication that is doomed for disaster before it begins. If he truly is afraid of intimacy, is this his way out of it yet he's still satisfied?

b4 you married him was there any emotional attachment, and hugging and kissing either b4 or when being intimate? you mention a counselor said porn could be the issue, what did your hubby think of this, without him feeling attacked?

I also think that if he is not in the mood, and take porn over a real live person, then, yes that is a huge problem! and yes it could be an addiction. Thing is, you have been with him for 15 years so he may be used to his porn and not willing to change, I guess he needs to decide what is more imporant... .  "your feelings on this subject". and what makes you happy... .  or his self gratification.

Even if it was true that he had a hard-on or whatever and wanted to get rid of it, why in the room beside us with the door ajar? And then to tell me that he looks at my picture but puts someone else's legs with it? THAT'S supposed to make me feel better?  He has profusely apologized. I accept it, but I don't trust him. He has told me that he doesn't do that stuff anymore, yet I find a bottle of lotion here or something there. Of course, he can justify anything away: dry skin, something he forgot about and didn't know was there, etc. Could this be an addiction?... .  wow

I don't blame you for being mad, you picture but someone else's legs... .  huh... .  not cool! Obviously he is doing things and in his mind it is ok, and with the dance of apologizing and then you accepting, he probably just keeps doing the same thing over and over. You have to decide what you want and do not want. To be honest, he may have been doing this for a long time (15 years) so it may take him a long time to stop... .  would he be willing to speak to a counselor about his possible addiction? And how about his BPD? was he ever diagnosed?

Please keep posting and talking and know you are not alone... .  and last thing, what is it that you would like to do make a change in the way the relationship is going?

[almost789]

This is so complicated. And every person/couple has different reason behind this problem. But, if you are married it is no longer just about YOU and YOUR feelings, its about BOTH of you as a couple. I would seek counseling, preferably sex counseling. However sometimes that wont fix it if the underlying issue is simply BPD.

[elessar]

It is an addiction. And no, not all guys do it... .  at least not when they are in a relationship. I never saw porn till the first time my ex broke up with me (I was 22 already), and I never watched porn while I was with her. Have I been addicted to it when I am lonely and single? Yes. But in a relationship it is not healthy because as someone said... .  it is self-gratification. Some guys might masturbate for physiological reasons so they can go longer the second time around with their partner. But what your husband is doing is unhealthy, and I shudder to think it being done with your daughter in next room. He has to see a therapist.

[GreenTea]

Elessa, it's good to have an honest male perspective. I don't think it's healthy within our relationship, but of course I'm the prude when I voice my feelings.  And yes, the fact that our daughter could have been the one that saw him like that worries me. That was the first thing that I said to him.

SummerT321, thank you for the links. I've always felt that there was something "off" with us.

Vindi, I never told him what the counselor said. The fact that I was seeing one back then was a HUGE trigger for him. And yes, we were emotionally intimate prior to marriage. It's almost like everything in that area disappeared as soon as we were married. He told me early on in our marriage that romance is a fantasy, he's not the type of husband that wants to be greeted with a hug and kiss when he gets home. He needs his alone time to decompress, etc. etc. He has never been diagnosed with BPD but exhibits many of the symptoms especially with relationships: no friends, no emotional attachments to family. He has been diagnosed with depression which he refuses to acknowledge.

There have been two rages this week over little things: our daughter had a meltdown. He told me one story, she told me a totally different one. He then raged that she told me a different story, and therefore I didn't believe him according to him. Frankly, I don't know what to believe anymore. Why would a 39 year old man go into a rage when a 5 year old is telling me why she had a meltdown? Horrible, horrible night. Tonight was another. Part of this is my fault, I do tend to enable to prevent the anger. So yes, his behavior does continue because without really meaning to, I allow it. But I'm through, I do have a daughter to look out for. I've been talking with my T as to how to go about leaving, as in separation. Tonight the words, "I'm done. We're through. You have until the end of the month" came out of my mouth. Of course, he twisted them with guilt. But this is my open door. I need to follow up tomorrow to let him know this is not an empty threat.

[maasika]

I would have major concerns regarding the fact he does that with your daughter in the next room... .  Why stay in such unhappy rel?But furthermore,would it not be better for your child to not be at threat of a father who freaks out when he thinks she s telling different stories?If he freaks out like this when she s 5 what will it be like when she s 16?And what impact do these rages have in her?Isn t that a risk of her becoming borderline herself?She must be terrified... I miscarried a while ago,was devasrated,but considering what my borderline partner did as he coldly left me 2 months later for... .  a drug addict and has been contacting me non stop since,cos somehow he can t lose me,whatever sick selfish reasons are behind it,I am now thinking i actually was lucky.And escaor=ed that horrible person:Think of your daughter and yourself,don t focus on him and his weird ways,your child and yourself deserve a safe and healthy environment.Mine was addicted to porn and sex sited=s from which he dragged the women he found there on his fb and msn... When i caught him he sayed he did not visit those sites for what i imagined!That he had them on his fb as friends just for chats about normal stuff and that i was jealous!4 months after running off with his methadone princess,he s now in jail for trying to kill her with a hammer... .  He hates drugs and addicts.why he went there makes me wonder was it suicidal mission from him... He wrote me from jail.And i closed my door for ever.I have since discovered it is the 4 th time he s put away for exactly the same crime:Harassment and attack on his ex s,with whom he stayed no longer than 3 months... .  I know him 4 years.He never was violent to me,the opposite actually... But we had a lot of problems,and i pulled him up,but he never attacked me... I m lucky.But to this day I don t know why he never did,and why he still seeks me.And that worries me.Eventually he leaves them alone,but he won t let me go.So you see with them,it s better to stop worrying about the and start to worry about yourself,especially if you have a child to protect.All the best

[Vindi]

hi greentea, just checking on you and how things are going at the household, and if your daughter is ok, its great that you are putting her wants and needs 1st. Have you made any steps on separating w/your husband. I am sure this will be a huge challenge and he may try to talk you out of this.

Just know I am here and listening and wishing you the best!

[GreenTea]

Maasika, I too have thought about the future. I don't see this getting better. My T wants me to come with a plan of action this week. When I am out of our home, I know what I want. I do want us to be separated. How long? I don't know. What are the conditions to get together again? I don't know. However, when I am IN our home, I'm sucked into thinking, "this can work." 

There are times when my daughter is sad. At church this past Sunday she started to cry for no reason. She then told me that when daddy gets mad, and I get sad, she feels bad. But then, there are periods of normalcy, when it seems like everything will be alright. I know that this is probably just my own denial, my own way of not facing the difficult reality of what I should do.  My T says that I am not to listen to what he says because he is manipulating me. He is NOT a bad person, just believes he has no purpose in life, doesn't get the credit he deserves, etc. My default is always what if there is one last thing that I haven't done that I could do? But like my T says I could be 70 years old, still in the r/s saying, "let me try this one last thing," and not live life. And my daughter... .  I know that I am responsible for her environment. It SCARES me that she could walk in on him doing something not so kosher; although I've only caught him maybe 8 times in our 15 years together.

What is wrong with me? I know what I would say to someone in my shoes. It's not just the porn, it's the rages over SIMPLE mundane things, it's the lying about the drinking, etc. Why do I have such a hard time making this break? I am sending him back to the US to no job and keeping him from our daughter if I ask for a separation. THAT is hard. If it were she and me leaving, this would be easier to do. Instead, I'm telling him that he is leaving, and he has no home or job to go "home" to. I think that is my biggest barrier. Is that fair or right of me as a wife to do?

[maasika]

yes it is hard.We get addicted to them.But the child feels bad... she blames herself... What good is a father who has a condition he s not really addressing?How selfish is that to not priotorise his child?Mine as an example,promoised and promised and lied:Alcoholic,can t hold a job,cant be trusted and left me overnight with no warning with a junkie:A junkie!And he hates drugs!and loathes drug addicts!Then he tried to kill her with a hammer and is serving time in jail:That is what they can do.They do not think about guilt about sending their partner anywhere to no job:They don t gove a damn!Isn t that enough to start not giving a damn but to only care about safety and future well being of the child?We do not need fathers who break us:I had one ,an alcoholic... and i know the damage.I was strong to not fall into addiction,but at a price:My nerves and my self confidence... my father whi i beleive had a disorder,but in those days,it was not acknowledged,ruined my childhood and my life:So... Isn t that worth saving your child ?And don t you worry,the minute he ll be away he ll find a keeper!They have no loyalty,no compassion and no concience.My BPD is writing me from jail!I told him to forget me!But he s that selfish,he wont take on board what he did to me... .  seriously Greentea,feel guilt for your daughter,but not him,and save yourselves.I have given up hoping they can change.Cos they can t ,it s in their brain.Sad and bad but nevertheless they do not go down alone if not stopped.All the best,take care of yourself and your daughter and get out and send him home... alone

[almost789]

Yes it is fair and right Green Tea. Is it fair and right for him to be a porn addict who can't even close the door when he does this? And with a child in the house no less. And an alchoholic and whatever else he is or ISNT. He's forsaken his vows. Is it fair and right to ask you to put up with abuse, just because your married? No it's not. Has he always been this way?

[GreenTea]

Has he always been this way?

He was the man of my dreams when we dated. I literally walked through our two years of dating beaming and giddy. There were a few red flags that went up a month before we were married, but I passed them off as nervousness. But since we've been married, yes, he's been like this. The first few years I took it upon myself to change me: "what am I doing wrong? How can I be a better wife?" And that's the path I've been on until what is left of the person I truly am? I thought I was helping, but now I see it as enabling. I will NEVER make him happy. I have validated him up and down, but it's met with "that didn't sound sincere" or "you're just saying that to make me feel good" or "you're just telling me what I want to hear"  or "words mean nothing, and your actions aren't speaking." He doesn't trust anyone, including me. Everything must be done on his time, when he feels like it, and if it's not, he goes ballistic.

Things really have taken a nosedive since our daughter was born. I know he loves her, but he can't have things on his time, or done the way he likes 24/7. What parent can? Your schedule to a point DOES revolve around theirs. He goes to bed between 7-8 when I'm putting her to bed, tonight was 6:45 and he gets mad at me when I suggest that we spend time together after she's in bed (7:45) because that's infringing on HIS time. He can't even go to bed when he wants! We are two separate people living under the same roof. But he's not even a participating member of this family. But there are days when he IS, and those are the days that are wonderful and suck me into staying.

How do I initiate the conversation? Just tell him, "you need to leave?" I can't give him reasons, for fear of me getting sucked right back in. He knows them anyway, and I have them written down in letters that I've given him. I have separation papers already. I just need to fill them out. I have two places that my D and I can stay. Do I go there until he's gone? I've been told by family, close friends, and my T that the most loving thing I can do is to send him away. By not doing so, I'm enabling him, and that is not helping him.

Maasika, I want my daughter to grow up strong and confident, not under a critical eye. I hear what you're saying.

When you're in this cycle, it's not possible to see how "unhealthy" things truly are, is it?

[almost789]

I think you are are right in this separation. The validating and all that when it gets this bad just enables them i  my opinion. You cant sacrifice you or your daughter for him.  Honestly, I dont know if u should leave or u should send him away. Whatever works for you either way. Good for you, really. You deserve better.

[Vindi]

hi greentea, would you rather go to a friends house to stay or just kick out your hubby... .  do whatever you feel is best, and your

hubby knows why you feel this way, he may just be in denial that you are really thinking of leaving. It may be the hardest thing to do in your life, but once you make that step, things should go easier, even if you get away just for a week to clear you mind and find out what you want to do next. My thoughts and support are with you and hope you are doing ok.