has anyone experienced this

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My xBPDw is a major control freak. When she left 5 plus years ago (we have two boys together) it really became a problem. I learned to not react and just do what I thought was in the boys best interest. I learned to communicate through email only and to keep my answers brief and focused thanks to everyone here. Lately things have taken a turn and I am not sure how worried I should be. Maybe I'm just too paranoid when it comes to dealing with ex. Anyway, lately her emails have been asking me what to do when it comes to the boys. The latest example is we are to split spring break 50/50 according to the court order. She has always given me the schedule and as long as it followed the court order I really didn't care. However, this time she asked me to make the schedule and send it to her. This new development only started the last two months or so. At first I thought it was a fluke and it would stop but it has continued. Just wondering if anyone else experienced this before and how did it play out ?

[david]

My xBPDw is a major control freak. When she left 5 plus years ago (we have two boys together) it really became a problem. I learned to not react and just do what I thought was in the boys best interest. I learned to communicate through email only and to keep my answers brief and focused thanks to everyone here. Lately things have taken a turn and I am not sure how worried I should be. Maybe I'm just too paranoid when it comes to dealing with ex. Anyway, lately her emails have been asking me what to do when it comes to the boys. The latest example is we are to split spring break 50/50 according to the court order. She has always given me the schedule and as long as it followed the court order I really didn't care. However, this time she asked me to make the schedule and send it to her. This new development only started the last two months or so. At first I thought it was a fluke and it would stop but it has continued. Just wondering if anyone else experienced this before and how did it play out ?

[mamachelle]

Hi David

I've noticed pwBPD are often easily influenced by others so there may be a new person in  the mix.

It could also be a way to get attention because she is bored.

It could be she is having difficulty with the boys as they grow older and is feeling out of her element.

I guess maybe before you hire a private detective you could see if there has been shifts in other areas. 

But yes I've seen communication style shifts with my BPDexh as well as BPD exw of my H but the underlying personality is still there. If she wants control she will seek that.

Can you think of other recent changes ? Patterns in past that are triggering your concern?

[DivDad]

I divorced a  Bline.  Have two kids.

As long as you follow the court schedule... .  it really doesn't matter who initates the schedule.

Courts don't like a court ordered parent schedule straying from the court order.

When emaling... .  try and keep each scheduling period separate from others.  THat is, outline Spring Break, then send another email for Summer, etc.

[tog]

My SO's stbxw is also a world-class control freak. She has to make all plans and do all schedules and make all decisions etc. It would be very odd indeed if she started deferring to him, though I would think it was either: a) she's depressed and doesn't have the energy to control everything or be an effectively single parent (by her own choosing) OR b) she's dating a new guy and doesn't feel like SS is her reason for existence anymore and so doesn't care so much.

Either way, I'd say, just go with it, give your very brief suggestions/schedules and see what happens. It's funny that when these pwBPD start acting nice or "normal", it worries us. 

[david]

I have noticed, for at least a year now, she is having difficulty with the boys. S14 and her haven't gotten along for quite some time because he resists her orders by ignoring her when he is there. I don't particularly care for that coping style but he doesn't do that with me or anywhere but with his mom so it is a situational thing. S9 has been expressing himself more and it is age appropriate so this is just the normal development. I originally suspected she was overwhelmed but this has been going on for several months and that is where the concern is. I am very used to getting 30 emails a month telling me what is wrong with me. I never reply since they do not pertain to the kids. That has pretty much stopped and along with that she started asking me to make decisions. Making the schedule is fine since it is spelled out in our court order but the absence of her needing to make the decisions has me puzzled. Even when we were together she pretty much made the decisions and I went along with things. When I did make a suggestion she usually changed it for some reason or she just said no and later it became her idea. In the beginning I attributed to her being quirky. Later I came to see this as an issue for her. The sudden change caught me off guard and I suspect there is another motive.

[mamachelle]

Hi David

I wonder if she might be pulling away from you and the boys mentally as she is doing it in her emails and communications. In my experience there would be an increase in communication to get attention or before any weird lateral move for money or more time with kids not a decrease.

Both of the BPD parents in my mix pulled away as their children were adolescents. I believe it has to do with their personal problems with relationships and the way they relate to adults in general.

Have your kids said anything?

Parents with BPD take rejection as abandonment. If your S14 is ignoring her then she may be losing interest in him and you for now.

I'm not exactly sure what you are concerned she may be doing.

[DivDad]

I don't think your Bline is pulling away from you.  They seldom do.

There is no such thing as a clean break.  Especially with kids.

You mentioned that you do not respond to her emails when it's about you... .  and not the kids.

From my years of experience, there might be a case where she has realized that she cannot engage you... .  and make your life miserable... .  with a one on one communication... .  So she is acquiencing the kids scheduling to you... .  so that she can guarantee that you will be engaged with her.

When she starts changing the schedule at the last mintue, upseting you and the kids... .  then you'll know that she is changing tactics to stay engaged with you.

You have to be careful... .  because if you are the scheduler... .  she will start manipulating the conversation with the kids that you are screwing it up.

They will see only one side of the schedule changes... .  and you might be subject to parent alientation.

Always remember, that Blines have a pretty clear agenda... .  and they look far far down the road.

Keep on guard, keep to the court order... .  and keep copious email records.

If the Bline makes any changes verbally... .  just drop an email to confirm the change.

Or drop an email that it was a last minute change.

Make sure you have a paper/email trail.

It will be gold in court.

[Matt]

This is how it's always been, from the time we separated.

I have to make a plan, taking into account whatever I know about my ex's issues, such as her work schedule.  I make it the best I know, and send it to her - "I can pick up the kids at noon Saturday, and bring them back at noon next Saturday the 9th." - as specific as possible.  Usually I just get "OK", or nothing at all.  Once in a while she says it won't work for her, for some reason, and I have to figure out a different plan.

She almost never offers a plan or asks for any specifics.  I have to get all the information and figure it out, or nothing will be decided and there will be chaos.  But over time she has been less difficult;  things go pretty smoothly now.

My guess is, she is just too mentally exhausted to think clearly.  Exhausted from all the twisted thinking.  She's smart, but struggles to put 2 and 2 together and get 4.

[david]

I'm parapharsing Mark Twain here but he said something like, "You don't have to remember anything if you tell the truth." The twisted thinking eventually catches up to you. Maybe she is just burning out.

[Matt]

I'm parapharsing Mark Twain here but he said something like, "You don't have to remember anything if you tell the truth." The twisted thinking eventually catches up to you. Maybe she is just burning out.

"I always tell the truth.  It's easier to remember."

Yes, that has played out in our case, especially around the end of the marriage.  It was pretty easy for me, because my story was consistent - I just told the truth as I knew it.  Her stories changed quite a bit - the night she accused me of assault, she told very different stories to the two officers who came to investigate, within 10 minutes of each other, and that went into their report, and was the best proof she was lying.

But... .  I also believe that my ex often believes (or believed) what she was saying.  I think she got upset, and adrenaline blocks the formation of new memories.  And I think she told herself those stories, and came to believe them.

Over time, what's happened is, we've communicated much less, and only about practical matters, almost entirely by e-mail;  she has let me put forward the plans, and mostly she passively accepts them;  and she has agreed to, and often initiated, a slow morph from 50/50 to much more time with me.  Now I have the kids most of the time, but they still see her some every other week, and often those shifts have been initiated by her, sometimes for a specific reason, or sometimes for no reason at all.  "I can't take the kids this weekend.  Can they stay with you?"  No explanations given, and I don't ask.

And I do think that is because of fatigue, and is her way of coping with her problems - BPD and depression mostly.  I think when the kids are with her less, she does fine, but when they're with her more, it's stressful - though they are great kids - and she doesn't handle stress well.  So she is consciously or unconsciously nudging things so they will be better for her, and that's best for everyone.

So the tendency, after the big conflict is past, to become more passive - especially when nobody but us knows about it - may be a good coping mechanism, and something we can all learn from.  I'm not arguing against going for primary custody, during the court phase.  But I do think that if custody is split, and you can make that work, and get past the high conflict, then it's likely things will get better over time, without more court, just because it will be easiest for the parent with BPD or another psych disorder.

[Winglessfallen]

In my experience on the other side, being the NON-Step parent, when her boys show independence and a mind of their own (ignoring her, or arguing with her) it is like salt in a wound.  It's a huge trigger for her.  In her mind she should say something and it should be done.  Her youngest, S7, is very free spirited and doesn't listen very well.  She has gone to their father about how things need to be fixed, and has also blamed his "wimpy parenting" for their sons problem.  So, I think that your exW is feeling the stress of her children's independence.  As well, if they have any life at all, I'm sure she is feeling the wear from that as well.  Before our son was born, her children never did any type of extracurriculars, but the summer I met her, her son played baseball.  She very consistently told him or showed him how much of a "hassle" it was to get him to practices and games, which also caused him to feel guilty for doing anything like that.  This all only got worse when our son was born.  Anything that didn't involve her interests is a hassle, its all she has time for.  This could be making it more "stressful" to her.  I have a strong feeling that her oldest, S-10, will soon be like your oldest.  He is already starting to ask questions about his moms behavior and things she does aren't making sense to him.  The youngest is intensly just wants her to love him, so he may end up heading more in the direction of her disorder.

[david]

I picked the boys up yesterday at school. Both of them had quite a story about their weekend. Mom was is full rage mode. Apparently she was telling them how her ex husband (yea, me) was a heavy drinker, yelled at her all the time and of course the children, and hit all of them on a regular basis. S14 pointed out that this was not true and was yelled at even more. The good news is that S9 spoke up to defend S14 and also told his mom that the things she was saying were not true. S9's coping strategy has always been to disappear in the woodwork when mom was on her delusional rants. I am glad they are learning to stick together. They asked a couple of questions trying to understand why mom acts the way she does. They indicated she seems very angry. I simply said that they sound right and that mom sounds like she is angry. They wanted to know why mom gets so angry all the time. We had a good discussion about choices. One can choose to be angry and let that guide them or one can choose to not be angry and let that guide them. Apparently, S9 speaking up caught ex by surprise because pretty much made her go silent and turn the radio up in her car. When they arrived at their destination she got out of the car quickly and smoked a cigarette "faster then I ever seen someone smoke a cigarette". She smoked three more and then let the boys out of her car. They went food shopping and then to a clothing store where she made both stay in the car as she shopped. She came back with 5 bags of clothes for her. The thing that struck me the most was that both boys seemed calm and stuck together.

[Matt]

Is there anybody else they can tell this to, like a counselor - maybe even the school counselor?

This is the kind of stuff they need to be protected from.  If you can get it on the record it might help a lot.

[hell0kitty]

The BPD ex that my BF and I deal with is also a big time control freak.  If she didn't come up with the idea or if she didn't come up with the program it doesn't matter. (example- she suggested ballet, but because we signed the child up for the school and she didn't tell us which school, the ballet that she does with us doesn't exists as far as BPDex is concerned and child is not allowed to go to that school's performances) 

She changes how we communicate about 3xs per years, changes how the child eats, last Summer she was a Vegan, now they are Gluten free but meat is OK... .  etc etc

The ONLY times I've seen her defer to my BF is when she is depressed.  Then suddenly she is too tired to deal with stuff and asks him to take of things, and is even kind of nice.  The only other time she give sup control is right before she pulls something weird with court. She will be really weirdly kind, and then we will get served. 

[david]

Well, everything written here has come to pass. I emailed the schedule for Easter break. The court order says 50/50, Easter with dad this year from noon to 8 pm, and I am expected to take S14 to karate on Thursday. I make it so the court order is followed. I make one suggestion that is different- the boys sleep over Easter and I drop them of at school. Easter is on her weekend this year so it gets shortened. I point out that next year Easter will be on my weekend so my weekend will be shotened. Her reply to that is that "she lives one day at a time and she can not fathom about a year into the future". It went on and on. She argued about everything saying I use the court order when I feel like it and I ignore it when I feel like it, she wants a longer time with the boys and justifies it in a way that I am unable to describe because it makes no sense, and on and on. I stay foucused on the schedule with minimal sentences. This goes back and forth over several days until she insists that we follow her schedule. The problem is she never sent a schedule. She then says she discussed it with an atty and a judge (yea right) and they both agreed with her. A lot of what she said was all about her. I ignored everything and just talked about the schedule. Basically the schedule I made was the schedule we normally have each week during school now with the exception that the boys sleep over on Thursday. The only reason that is there is to make the schedule 50/50 to follow the court order. I picked the boys up today (today is 3/14 and I am a math teacher so I bought the boys shirts for Pi day). The problem is that S14 couldn't find his shirt this morning and asked his mom. She claimed she knew nothing about it. After he left for the bus S9 went looking for his at mom's hiding spot and found both shirts. I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.

[Matt]

Here's how I have learned to talk about the schedule - always by e-mail.

"I will pick up the kids today at 5:00 p.m.  I will take them back to your place next Thursday 3/21 at 5:00 p.m."

This is the way of writing it that works for me, because it is not a discussion or a question - it's a statement of what I will do.  Then I do it.

If her response is "OK" or no response - great, I just do what I said.

If her response is "Can you make it 5:30 today instead of 5:00?" I answer either yes or no.

If her response is anything else, I ignore it, and do what I said I would do.

No discussions.  No arguments.  Tell her what you will do, and then do it.

[david]

I emailed ex with three different proposals for Easter week. The first followed the court order exactly. The second was the one I prefered. The third addressed every issue she brought up and gave her the entire Easter Sunday. She picked the first one which is the one she had the most complaints about. She added that she would not follow this schedule the next time. I guess that was her way of winning.

[Free One]

Here's how I have learned to talk about the schedule - always by e-mail.

"I will pick up the kids today at 5:00 p.m.  I will take them back to your place next Thursday 3/21 at 5:00 p.m."

This is the way of writing it that works for me, because it is not a discussion or a question - it's a statement of what I will do.  Then I do it.

If her response is "OK" or no response - great, I just do what I said.

If her response is "Can you make it 5:30 today instead of 5:00?" I answer either yes or no.

If her response is anything else, I ignore it, and do what I said I would do.

No discussions.  No arguments.  Tell her what you will do, and then do it.

I have used Matt's technique on many occasions and love how well it works. It really leaves no room for discussion or argument if you do it as listed above.

Great advice Matt! Thank you.

[DivDad]

Keeping with the email discussion... .  

When writing emails to Blines... .  

Have one issue and one topic per email.

Put the topic in the Subject matter.

Don't discuss two or more things in one email.

A Bline will pick and choose what they want... .   and are incapable of responding to multiple issues.

You are left with chasing information.

If you limit the email to one topic... .   you it will be clearer in the response... .   or no response.