Extinction Burst and then he dumped me

[laelle]

This morning I offered to help with his rent as I have mentioned already(you guys know my feelings on this.  I also added in that I would like to be added back to his facebook.

It might have been an unopportune moment to mention this, but really the lack of empathy has been getting to me lately.  He tells me not to talk at times because I think he cant even tolerate my voice.  When I stood up to him the other day I was told that I was horrible.  He is jealous and asks me about other men,  but when I ask about other women I am berated and ridiculed.    We have had problems with facebook mostly because I was not allowed to react when I had doubts.  I Felt stiffled.  When I have problems he tries to pass them to my ex husband where as I am suppose to deal with his emotions and problems.  He is full of empty promises, lack of empathy, drama and all talk.

I thought about it and why should I contribute to a life in Madrid that I am not even living when he has no empathy to even attempt to understand my feelings.  He said it wasnt a good idea and he would have to think about it but I cant handle being on it.  I made my case without Jading and he didnt like it and told me I was too much drama for him and "your dumped"

my statement.  and as many times as I have told you there is nothing going on with JP, will you still ask again?  Should I tell you that you are pathetic and ridiculous and block you from skype because he is around and upsetting you?    Have we also not had fights about facebook where its you who does the accusing?  Why do I not hold it against you as you do me? 



It wasnt really about the facebook it was about any attempt that i had to show feelings that caused his need to show non exempt empathy or reason, he simply ignores me or dumps me.  Anyone who would dump another person for expressing their feelings isnt the right person for me.

I dont lie when I say that I knew how he was and I could have "radical acceptanced" or validated, but im sick of it when I dont get it back.

He dumped me, but it was my choice to have boundaries that I had to stand firm with.  It was his decision not to respect them.

He makes me feeling like I am money oriented and choose to control with money, but im not.  I admit, it made me feel justified in my request , not because he had to give it to me, but because I was making the effort to help his needs.  If the relationship was headed in a direction that I found worthy of it, I would gladly give.  Its not, and I have every right to have doubts and boundaries about it.

I guess I need to go to leaving.  As I didnt make it worse, maybe he will come back later when he has cooled down, but I really have to think about my own feelings and needs in this and decide if its worth going through again.

He was an attentive boyfriend.  He tried to empathize, I recognized it, I empathized with him for his effort.  I think I have outgrown being punished for my feelings.  I have tried to just point out the truths in this because I dont hate him, but I sure do hate his disease.



I also am really focusing on if I am not judging him harshly because I am painting him black.  While its possible I am holding him more accountable, the issues are still there, only not hidden to me.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[123Phoebe]

  to you Laelle

When we are able to detach with love, not only love for them, but for ourselves also, stand back enough to get a clearer picture and perspective-- it seems that our confidence and strength grows.  So that no matter which path we choose to take, we're taking it with just that much more clarity and focus toward our future.

The money issues remind me of my exh.  Now mind you, I was very codependent, so I do own my part and I will never financially support another man again to try and get some sort of payoff.  We were deep in debt and he was working less and less while in hot pursuit of his 'dream'.  It started out slowly, but eventually I was paying the bills while trying to be a supportive wife.  Resentment built.  Whenever I'd bring up the money problems and ask him to look over the bills with me, he'd go into denial and say that I worry too much, it'll all work out.  When it finally got to the point of no way no how were things going to magically work out, I put my foot down on the bill paying and demanded that he contribute.  He said that he knew eventually 'money' would be the downfall of our relationship, that I was jealous of him and that he'd go follow his dream in another state where his talents are appreciated.  My words to him were, 'Pack your bags, baby.  In no way will I stand in the way of your dream'. 

That's the short version, but enough was enough.  I was not going to get him to see my side of things, nor was he going to convince me of his.  We were on totally different wavelengths.  It was then that I realized whole-heartedly that there was no 'US'.  It was he and I struggling to get our needs met by people that had entirely different agendas.  Best to cut our losses and pursue our own lives... .  

We really got along in a number of different ways, but the fundamental ones were elusive and not at all clear for too many years.  No real goals or shared aspirations/equality, only day-to-day survival.  I refused to live that way any longer.  And when I made that point clear to him, he refused too.  Who knows how long it could've went on in no man's land had I not finally stood up for what I believed in.  The way it was going though, we would've ended up homeless.  I had to take care of me.

I apologize for getting off your topic by talking about myself and I hope that after a few your guy will see and understand where you're coming from; a meeting of the minds.  There's a chance that he won't though, which is why I'm even bothering telling you all this. 

Trust your instincts and always always always be true to yourself, Laelle  

[yeeter]

Hugs laelle,

Trust your instincts and always always always be true to yourself, Laelle  

You will come through this a better and stronger person. 

[Rockylove]

... .  As I didnt make it worse, maybe he will come back later when he has cooled down, but I really have to think about my own feelings and needs in this and decide if its worth going through again.

It sounds like you've already made your decision and are taking care of YOU!    We all have our tipping point and I think you've found yours.  

When I split up from a 6 year relationship (before meeting current bf) I made a list of the things I wanted for my life.  I also made a list of things I wanted from a relationship.  I have certain values and ethics from which I will not waver and I made a promise to myself that no matter how much love I feel for someone, I will not compromise my integrity for for the sake of another.

If you truly are going to the leaving board, I hope you stop by the "staying" board every once in a while just to say hi... .  I've enjoyed your posts and words of encouragement!

[laelle]

Thank you Phoebe,

I think I denied seeing things because I hoped after coming here and learning the tools that it would help me have a better relationship with him, and it did.  We never fought.  Its that one time I assert myself I get ignored for two days, the second time I get dumped.  What do I get in return for all this radical acceptance.  Words.  He says he is working for us to have a life, yet the things he is doing is not for me.  It would take different actions for him to be working on a life with him.  I am truly an object.  Im not saying that I am an object that he doesnt care about, but in the end, im still an object that he can pass off the needs of.  Sometimes I feel used, but lets face it, as good as he is at the manipulation, he could find someone to get alot more off of.  I do believe he loves me, but I dont think he has a clue what that is suppose to feel like or how people behave when they love eachother.  They sure dont break up because something was said that was not liked.  You work it out, compromise.

Every time he has broken up with me has been simply because I said something that he didnt like.  Its childish.  If I dumped him everytime he said something I didnt like, we wouldnt last a day.

[laelle]

Thank you Yeeter, I can sure use one.   "your dumped"  oh my!  I mean that much to him.

Rockylove, Thank you and thank you for telling me of your personal experience.  I cant control his actions, therefore if its done, its done.  While I dont want to end it, I cant deny the problems and yeah I have some concerns about the future.  Will see if he calms down and can see reason.



He meant 524 posts to me.

[TigerEye]

He dumped me, but it was my choice to have boundaries that I had to stand firm with.  It was his decision not to respect them.

And there it is, you gave him the choice, it was a fair and reasonable request and he chose not to take it up. Ultimately we have to live with ourselves, and who are we if we are not guided by our own values. I guess like me, you have spent time examining those values, questioning whether they truly reflect what we feel to be important enough not to give it up for another, we are worth more than that.

Yes, it is the disorder and not the person, but it is that disorder that we have to live with as well. It is bad enough that they have to live with it, but it can not take us down with them. A major part of the recovery process is for them to recognize the problem and take some responsibility. For me, even the smallest amount of recognition, just the tiniest amount of empathy would have been enough to work with, but as that was not there, I feel I have done the right thing at this time.

One of the things I like about this site has been the articles I read, there have been some real  moments, the latest being since I reached my 50th post was gaining access to L6 where I found The Five Stages Of Discovery which has shown me that where I'm at right now is natural considering what I have been through and my own emotional health. And that is what we need to attend to now, our own well being, we are on a journey of insight and self-discovery which can only makes us stronger and more confident in the choices we make, which ever direction our lives take now, it will be our decision based on our values. Our SO's are more than welcome to join us if they truly hold those values themselves and are prepared to live by them, or at the very least, get the help they need to make that step.

I think I have outgrown being punished for my feelings.

Don't think, believe

I send you love and best wishes laelle, and as it's been said, keep in touch, let us know how you're doing

[laelle]

Thank you TigerEye, I will write more for you later, you made alot of really good point and I would like to address them.  I just ate an ice cream sundae and im falling asleep.      

He emailed and said he loved me but was tired of going around in circles.  I just told him it was ok, that I understood and that I love him too.

I told him if he wanted to talk I was here.  Not much else I can do.  I dont like being treated like a piece of garbage that can be disreggarded or ignored at a whim.

[LetItBe]

Sending you big hugs, laelle.    I admire your courage and strength.  You are not alone and have all of our support here when you need it.

[gina louise]

laelle


I am sorry you had to make that tough choice after trying so hard.

been there, done that. I think we all have.

being true to yourself is often the MOST difficult yet rewarding thing, in the end.

the ice cream sundae sounds yummy!

GL

[laelle]

NonGf, Thank you so much and thank you for offering your support.  I will need it greatly.  There really isnt anyone other than this website that can really understand the disorder and how it affects their and our lives.  I would not say that I have courage or strength.  I can only respect his feelings as I would have liked him to respect mine.  I really dont know how it will end.  

Gina louise,  Thank you so much.  I, in all fairness, didnt really have to make a tough choice, he made the choice.  Im only respecting it.  I'm not JADEing this time.

To dump somebody who asks for something and voices their opinion nicely is someone who doesnt want to be challenged.

To dump somebody and has them removed from their life in 15 secs had no ability for long term commitments.

To dump somebody in a rude manner that they cant be bothered with anothers persons feelings has no empathy.

To dump somebody and fall silent shows they just dont care.

To dump somebody in a rude, disrespectful manner and then tell you they love you, its insulting.

[4on6]

"To dump somebody and has them removed from their life in 15 secs had no ability for long term commitments."

"To dump somebody in a rude manner that they cant be bothered with anothers persons feelings has no empathy."

these 2 are the ones that always give me chills it's like poof your

nothing to them & then boom there back out of nowhere right when

your barely done picking up the pieces

[laelle]

Anything that brings up a circumstance where they should use empathy or is an intimate conversation... .  that defense mechanism kicks in because they are void of the ability to fully understand either.  Its black and white with them.  There can be no empathy in a black and white world.

Not every person is the same and even in that same person, the social skills vary from time to time.  Even me sometimes, I cant feel my feelings.

No one is perfect.

My story does not have to be yours.  My story also is not finished.  I will wait and take care of myself in the meantime. 

[gina louise]

laelle,

I hear you. My HUSBAND was raging to end the marriage, he "threw me out"... .  Even he claims he did that!

but ultimately-I was the one that left the house.  Self protection.

I also was not allowed by my HUSBAND to have or show or share feelings-anything less than happy go lucky was unacceptable.

If I wasn't black then I had to be white!

But What if I saw a need for ALL the colors! 

take care of Laelle now-I know you will... .  

GL

[laelle]

"but ultimately-I was the one that left the house"

I get what you mean here... .   

I've tried doing the dance upside down, side ways, on my tip toes, and with the tools.  In the end, im still doing the dance.  This time its a bit different because I know and understand the steps and why I must take them.

[Grey Kitty]

laelle,

 Sorry to hear the news of what he did.

I am very impressed to see you reacting with the equanimity you are showing right now. Even if it doesn't stay with you all the time, just seeing it is wonderful!

I read here that you learned a heck of a lot along the way. It may not make it any easier to take, but at least that is something you can carry forward with you whatever he does.

[laelle]

Grey Kitty,

I wont get angry, I think I processed those feelings a long time ago.  If I start posting nasty things tomorrow, I was wrong.  

The first day is usually the easiest.  While your upset and sad, you also have your truth and others that stand with you.  As the days go by we naturally forget the bad things and focus a little too much for the good.  That is when it gets hard.

Right now I am really practicing mindfulness and being ok with being hurt, angry, doubtful, scared, sad, guilt... .  they are all valid feelings and they are ok for me to have. They are normal.  Nothing needs to be done about them except to feel them.

I have learned tons here and I will gladly pass it on.  Just give me a few days because men are on my hit list atm.  

I am terribly devastated because we worked so hard.  Both of us.  I opened the door if he wants to talk, and he is always welcome too.

equanimity  Noun

Mental calmness, composure, and evenness of temper, esp. in a difficult situation.   Had to look it up, thought I would share.

[Grey Kitty]

The definition I use for equanimity is the one I found in Buddhist practice. I call it unconditional acceptance, as a companion to unconditional love. In this case, I think if it as being perfectly at peace with the world being what it is, and people being who they are.

Yes, it can be a fleeting state too. I'm glad you are there today, even if you may not be there tomorrow.

P.S. I would like to apologize for being a representative of the male portion of our species    

[laelle]

Wow Grey Kitty, thats quite a compliment.  If you knew me well you would know im just plain. 

I cried most of the nite, but it wasnt a "I need to get him back cry"  It was more of a "well isnt life a btch" cry.

I needed to feel like an equal partner.  He wanted me where he put me and told me I shouldnt want anything more while accepting my half of the partnership.

We will see if changing the dynamics changes the outcome, but unless this boundary can be respected I dont see that we can move forward.

Oh, and your forgiven for being a man.  After all, its not your fault. 

[Rockylove]

laelle... .  I'm so encouraged reading your posts.    I know this is difficult for you, but the growth you're experiencing as a result gives me great hope for myself!  Boundaries are important.  I've not been good at enforcing them in the past so it's uncomfortable for me, but I now understand that in following through I am being true to myself and that feels really good!

[laelle]

Does the growth I am experiencing have anything to do with the package of Speculoos I just ate? 

[TigerEye]

Oh, and your forgiven for being a man.  After all, its not your fault. 

I guess it's safe to post here again! I, like Grey Kitty, have recognized my part in that dynamic and I'm undergoing the appropriate T, I have had to radically accept that this is who I am, a man, and that my behavior as such may be seen as somewhat baffling to the opposite sex. 

If you knew me well you would know im just plain. 

You don't sound it to me, you sound like a kind, compassionate and caring woman who is walking the road to personal discovery, that takes courage and commitment, nothing plain about that, GO YOU!

I've not been good at enforcing them in the past so it's uncomfortable for me, but I now understand that in following through I am being true to myself and that feels really good!

My guess is that there have been 100's if not 1000's before us who have been here and reached this point, it's just our turn. It's a transition that we have to go through to make our situation better. But what has made it easier is the love and support of the people on this site right now. I bet the long term posters have seen people like us come and go, all with their own situations and circumstances, but a common theme. I can only imagine what it would have been like if I had not found this site. No one around me is that interested, after all, they've not seen half of what we see and hear on a daily, why would they care?

So both of you, take strength and courage in the knowledge that you are not alone, we're thinking of you and sending our love   

[waverider]

Your time here has not been wasted even if this is truly the end of the RS, even that is not a given with BPD relationships.

You have learned to see this for what it is, so you know you gave it your best shot. If it fails you will know why, closure will be easier. If you had no idea about BPD you would be totally stunned falling in a heap wondering why and having endless self doubts.

If this is the end it is because you no longer have self doubts, but rather discovered what you expect and set the boundaries to ensure you protected yourself.

[laelle]

 TigerEye LOL!  I so needed a laugh today.  Thank you for that.     Your forgiven also for being man what with having had therapy for it and all.  Admitting there is a problem is the first step to being cured.  

You know whats really bad?  Waking up from a nap and realizing that he isnt there anymore.  He's not merely working or gone to the store, but that he is just gone.  Just like that, in the blink of an eye.  I meant so much to him.  I hear people say that all the time, but now its me who cant get my head around it.  Why?  ----ok, now that I have had a good whine... .  I guess knowing why isnt as important as figuring out what I learned from it.  ----im still thinking.

[waverider]

My guess is that there have been 100's if not 1000's before us who have been here and reached this point, it's just our turn. It's a transition that we have to go through to make our situation better. But what has made it easier is the love and support of the people on this site right now. I bet the long term posters have seen people like us come and go, all with their own situations and circumstances, but a common theme. I can only imagine what it would have been like if I had not found this site. No one around me is that interested, after all, they've not seen half of what we see and hear on a daily, why would they care?

This is so true, and for each one of us who pass through here and learn what we do, there are thousands more who never really get the right oil on how to deal with BPD, and again for each of them there is another thousand who live with BPD relationships and never even hear about the disorder. Simply live in an eternal abusive, dysfunctional miserable existance, not even knowing they are not alone. It really is sad the ignorance of this disorder and the lack of support and information for those who have to live with it and around it.

We are the lucky few, even if it fails at least we will know why and will be all the better people for what we have learned, as much as about ourselves as well as the Disorder.

[laelle]

Well said Waverider, and thank you.

I have been through 3 years of him doing this.  Trashing everything we had built because I said something at the wrong moment and he just couldnt be bothered with my existence anymore.  poof, I have other problems, make her go away.  I really did use to take this hard.  I felt it was my fault.  His overeacting is his to deal with not me.  Its his problem, not mine.

They are his emotions and his behavior.  I can only control mine... .  so ok... .  what did I do.  I told him I understand that he feels there is a problem in the relationship and its ok.  That he can email me any time he wants to talk.  I kept control of myself and treated the ending relationship with the same respect that I have given to the relationship itself.  I am proud of me.  I did not JADE!

You need a dancing emoticon so I can do the didnt JADE dance.  

Oh, and I am soo lucky to have found this website.  Right now everything I have learned and all the support I have and am getting is holding me up.  

[Grey Kitty]

Wow Grey Kitty, thats quite a compliment.  If you knew me well you would know im just plain. 

Hey... .  even if you are presenting your "best" side here, the person you are trying to be all of / more of the time... .  take some credit for that.

I cried most of the nite, but it wasnt a "I need to get him back cry"  It was more of a "well isnt life a btch" cry.

Yup. Sometimes it just hurts.

You need a dancing emoticon so I can do the didnt JADE dance. 

Oh, and I am soo lucky to have found this website.  Right now everything I have learned and all the support I have and am getting is holding me up.   

You deserve tons of credit for doing your best in horrible circumstances--everybody can do pretty well when things are easy. Gee, I can't find the I-didn't-JADE-this-time icon around here either!

[benny2]

I have a feeling I will be joining you in the leaving board too. Whats going on here is not good

[laelle]

LOL, thank you Grey Kitty.  I got a bit of a tongue lashing with my last convo as I jaded a bit.  I stopped when I saw he couldnt possibly see reason.  He isnt in his right mind right now.  Its me who is a child.   It hurts to be the cause of everything that ails him. 

Hope not Benny.