Disappointed in self - class of triggers

[qcarolr]

[topic should be "Clash of triggers"]

Rough days with DD26 this last week - major conflict with me asking DD to leave our home. Nowhere for her to go. Dh asked me to back off.

Had intuition that something in DD's probation class on Tuesday night pushed her to attack me Weds. morning - that I was messed up and needed to change. When she threw out words like - you have distorted thinking - I knew someone put that in her mind. Yet I was so dysregulated myself this was pushed to back of my mind.

I had been in a couple group meetings with on Monday evening and Tuesday morning that had put me in a very vulnerable, fragile place as a parent - a parent mentoring panel at my church MOnday, and my bible study small group on Tuesday. So her attack on Weds I could not be validating - only hostile in return.

This morning organizing gd7's school papaers on counter found papers from DD's class on Tues. And there it was - worksheet on distorted thinking. I did not read all her responses - that is her personal stuff. But brings out conflict into a new light for me.

Is there a way to open a discussion about this topic with her - how it effected us last week? or should I just let it drop?

We are going on a famly venture to museum today - IMAX on mammoths and the mammoth exhibit. gd is very excited. Hope DD still goes with us.

Gotta go - dh has breakfast ready.

qcr  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

This happens to me all the time... .  my dd15 projects her feelings on me as a result of something that has happened to her that doesn't even involve me... .  I am the person that get all the anger... .  the blame... .  go on your outing and have a good day... .  don't bring this up to her. I just don't think they can see what they are doing... .  you could point it out but that is just another time when their imperfections are highlighted... .  try to leave it behind... .  try to find some positive things to say today to her... .  catch her doing something small and thank her for it... .  that will go a long ways to repairing your relationship. Our child want that... .  and need that... .  and I know it is the hardest thing to find at times... .  

[lbjnltx]

Distorted thinking... .  ie thinking errors.

It would be a good thing to talk about this in general:

"I have been thinking about something you said to me the other day and I did some reasearch.  What I found out is that we all have thinking errors that drive our emotions which drive our behaviors... .  

Some of my thinking errors are_____.

Being aware of them, I can_____.

This affects me and others hit_________."

qcarolr,

Do you remember the work we did with my d in RTC regarding thinking errors?

What that process looked like?

Here is some basic info that we all need to understand about BPD and "twisted thinking" (another term for thinking errors and distorted thinking).

Ten Forms of Twisted Thinking

Ten Ways to Untwist Your Thinking

Be mindful that these exact articles are posted on the online support group(s) for pwBPD.  It is the basis of part of their healing platform.

I am hopeful that this information will lead to some break throughs for your d and your r/s with her.

 

lbj

[qcarolr]

I have the list from Dr. Burns on my wall, and it has been there since about 1999. My T had me get his "Feeling Good" book. I never read it. I did do come cognitive therapy with my T then, and a group that focused on these things. Such great resistance that I 'need' this. Still.

Read it, think it yet avoid the feeling it and doing it. Well, not always. Avoid taking the time to write it out. Distract myself with 'more important tasks'.

Feel tired - another distraction from doing the hard work today.

qcr

[lbjnltx]

qcarol... .  my dear... .  

More thinking errors involved here?

Do you believe you have a very strong inner critic?  I know I can at times... .  I can either hold onto the negative self talk (thinking errors)  or I can choose to accept that I am tired/being critical of self then rest and accept that I need rest and it is human to make mistakes... .  or I can believe my strong inner critic which will only lead me to further negative self talk which will most likely keep me stuck.

It is a choice... .  a combo of wise mind and radical acceptance skills.

[qcarolr]

Which thinking error? i feel trapped in my life. maybe not the topic for this board. DD here with exbf - dh still bringing up how awful it was for me to honk horn in driveway, even knowing DD had her foot under the tire (which she did not tell him). I believe that they believe (dh, dd, bf) that i am crazy, a control FREAK. Am stuck in loop of negative thinking. don't know how to get turned in new direction without leaving them all behind. only gd is keeping me here.

this is not good. i haven not been here for a long time. i am scared. qcr

[lbjnltx]

Feel tired - another distraction from doing the hard work today.

qcr

Isn't this a thinking error, negative judgement attached to a simple truth?  Can't qcarol just be "tired" without attaching a negative behavior or motivation to this feeling?

If we are self critical doesn't it make logical sense that we will be more critical of others in our thinking/behaviors towards them?

We do  have the power to think differently which will lead to different feelings.

If your meds need adjusting that is doable, if you need to rest ... .  ask for help, you deserve help.  Reach out to the people that God has put in your life to stand in the gap for you. 

Please don't be so hard on my friend qcarol.  She is a good person with good intentions, a big heart and a lot of responsibility.

 

lbj 

[Reality]

Dear qcaroir,

You carry a very big load all the time with your family, plus you work, plus you research and write so much here on this board etc etc etc.  

Take very good care of yourself and be gentle with yourself.

Life can be terribly difficult.  Just the way it is.

It is what is true about God that matters not what is true about us.  When I first heard that sentence, it transformed and freed me.  

I hope you find some peace.

Reality  

[qcarolr]

Cleaned house. No sassing from the carpet or dust. Nojudgements. Quietly said to dh others could cook dinner. Dd did. Gd played. I am moving up from the depths of the dark and want to breathe in this twilight place for now.  Perhaps this is best I can be. And.  Others here can take care of selves while I am resting in the shadow. Told gd to ask me for what she needs. She is capable. Of doing for herself and asking for help.

Too much doing. Toomuch thinking. Too many asking me to listen too many things that feel yucky to me.

Work... .  owner auto shop in building where work for other auto shop shot himself as sheriff came to return him to jail Dui probation violation. Triggers my fears for dd who is ambivalent with her dwai. Probation ... .  both owner and his spouse r texting me of this tragic death and talk of chance to grow their business from this. I ammo tired of enduring the six weeks of gossipy talk... .  I have done best I can to bring cautious compassiom into the talk. I limit my hours on site and work from home as much as I can.

Work used to be a break from the drama of the rest of my life. A place of respect. Respect for me and my abilities and skills. This all seems ungrounded to me now.

At home someone is always there looking over my shoulders. No privacy.

Yes I am fatigued to the bone.

Dd wants to be the mom. Well she is going to be expected to be here for gd tomorrow. I am going to early church hen the thrive group. Not pushing gd to come. There is time for her Jesus learning. We can do this day to day in our life. I have to heal myself first

Dh has so disappointed me. Not sure where to go with this yet. Healing g needed here too.

What r my values? Murky. Boundaries... .  undone and pointless.

So what is good today?  Found weekly horse riding lessons for gd we can afford... .  offer horse summer camps can get some public support for by same ranch.  She is refusing all other activities offered. Gd teacher email today improvement in all areas including reaching out to other students. Her mere r working. At home too.

If I can keep gd gooeness in my mind and in my heart I can find my wisemind... .  at least for a little bit.

I will be ok.   

Qcr

[lbjnltx]

Dear qcarol,

It is good to hear that you are resting and letting others take care of themselves some. 

Re establishing your boundaries regarding listening to gossip at work... .  letting others know that we are not comfortable with a conversation and walking away sends a clear message about who we are and what we will accept.  Be true to yourself here.

I hope that you can get to a place of calm to talk about your feelings with your dh.  I pray that he will hear you and you will be able to hear him and work it out and heal the pain.  Forgiveness.

 

lbj

[vivekananda]

qcr, what can I say to help? I feel so much the pain you are feeling and I want to soothe it away. Do I give you advice? Is that just another load for you to carry? I don't know.

I want to make it better for you, but of course I can't. Only you can take care of it. Do I think you have the strength for that? yes I do. I have come to know you well, you are strong, you have integrity, it is just that now you are vulnerable and tired and in need of validation from those closest to you. Stop hearing negative feedback, block it out, overlook it, ignore it - this is doing your head in.

You have the capacity and ability to turn this around to a happier place, I am confident you can. You have dealt with much worse. You learnt to accept your dd on the streets and all that. You have managed all that legal mess for your dd. You have developed yourself and your dh to understand the things needed to cope with BPD in your dd. You brought your dh around to a good way of responding to dd. Can you reach out to him and ask for his validation of you? - not his solutions to your problems, you are responsible for yourself and he can't tell you what to do or think, he can only validate you.

Your dd pressed some buttons when you were at your lowest. That she was able perhaps means that those accusations are valid to you. In that case, address them. You are able to meet your own emotional needs. You can take care of yourself.

Can you contact your T and get feedback and support and advice from there? If the bi polar is out of kilt, she can help you.

I am sending you positive thoughts, vibrations across the waters to you. You have been to the forefront of my mind since yesterday when I first read of your dilemma. I know I am not alone in this, we are all here for you, sending you love.

Breathe, rest, open your heart to the universe - it loves you, God loves you. Regain your balance, plant your feet on the ground and hold yourself strong. Cheers,

best wishes, Vivek         

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[griz]

qcarol:  So much on your plate to handle.  You are an amazing woman, mother, grandmother,wife and worker. Right now you are so tired and I can understand that having been there myself, just wanting to get in the car and drive away and never look back.  It can be bone exhausting. Try to give yourself some time to recoup.  I wish we could all physically be there for you to help or even just to wrap my arms around you and give you a place to feel safe and protected.  I know I can't physically do this but I am here, thinking about you. 

I am glad you are going to church this morning and you are right, don't push gd to go.  Maybe you need some time alone to be with God and remember we are all here with you.

Griz   

[swampped]

qcr:                May you find peace in the Lord's presence this morning.       Swampped

[Thursday]

qcarolr,

Positive thoughts heading your way.

I'm so sorry your dh has disappointed you. That's disappointing :'(

Gathering together my most giant empathy for him, I can see he must be mortified that his DD can upset you to the point where now (in his mind) the neighbors know your family's business. I've felt this way before. We used to live in a neighborhood where the houses were closer together and BPDSD21 and her Dad used to have loud arguements with the windows open. I would see the next door neighbor at the store and cringe, hoping he wouldn't ask me something like,

"Is everything OK over at your house?"

Neighbor never did but that dialog in my head was loud.

Forgive your husband. He hasn't done the work to know, really, what is going on. He's maybe a bit lost, a bit out of touch, a bit inept, and thus, a lot unsupportive. But he is still there for you, someone you can lean on when the going gets really tough. He just doesn't really know how a lot of the time.

This part, at least, will figure itself out. Your instincts are great, you've done so much to educate yourself and as your DD works through this cycle, you can be sure it will cycle down and some point.

Meanwhile, we are here for you to boost you when your DH is being clueless... .  

I do hope things get better. Try to examine the patterns in the cycles. Even if it doesn't change anything, for me, it always helps me to know that we are trapped within a pattern of SD's disorder. Sometimes breaking the cycle works, but more often, waiting for the merry-go-round to slow itself down enough to hop off is a better way to go.

Enjoy this Sunday!

Thursday

[jellibeans]

Dear Sweet qcanoir

Please go back and read the earlier posts... .  some really good advise... .  don't be so hard on yourself... .  you are putting too much pressure on yourself... .  I hear the hurt in your words... .  try to put that behind you for now... .  don't beat yourself up. You are doing the best you can... .  everyone has a bad day once in a while but does that mean you have a bad life?

forgive everyone including yourself and move on... .  one baby step at a time... .  I do believe in thinking errors... .  believe in yourself... .  have a good Sunday... .  

[qcarolr]

Friends. So much. Love for me here. Thanks.

Left early to church gd watching prince of Egypt her newest favorite video. Dd still in bed but awkakened. Home at noon to all dressed watching black stallion. Had been out with dogs.

Yes I need to care for myself immersed in my faith community for a bit. This too is hard and has much love to give me. Thrive is Christian 12step group on Sunday. Coed topic prayer then break into sepetate gender groups. So new for me this focus on women supporting each other.  Well also feel this here on this board. Support for me as woman.  ... .  wife... .  mother... .  

Dd better balance... .  spending time with gd helps her too. Reflective on ride I gave her to town about trouble getting and keeping friends. G the exbf suggested she is too harsh when angry. I agreed. She will be gone a day or two as is her pattern. 

Can see now she was in meltdown from rejection by friend who is sleeping with exbf"m". Also. Lack of sleep ... Pms.  Missed med...    I took it all so personal when it was really not about. Me.

Forgave dh in my heart and myself for lack of clarity of my needs. We are ok. Much healing still needed with him within me. He is a rock for me... persistent in his love... yet he has made new boundaries to care for himself in our family. I am getting to understand. And accept these things.

Can let the bosses at work know I need space from other business gossip.  Focus on building success with what we already have. Have asserted this boundary in past and they have respected.

So parable of the seeds. I will stop eating them ans sow them and persevere waiting for the harvest. There will be storms. I may have to replant.there will come a joyful harvest when it is ready.

Qcr  

[vivekananda]

qcr,

You sound more at ease, I am pleased for you. The confusion and hurt that you felt in recent times was deeply distressing. You are reassured with your church group and it's valuable to be supported. Recall though, as we who live with BPD in our lives know, take care we are not enabled instead of supported.

I feel that there is a lot for you to learn in this recent experience. Dialogue with your dh is so important. You have the skills. When you both are able to, a productive discussion will be so good for you both.

Always though our first priority is to take care of ourselves. Can you check in with your T or Dr to get feedback from them? Do you think that would be important?

You are at the forefront of my mind and in my heart,

sending you love       

[qcarolr]

Vivek  - such good perception. There is work to do. I am ill today - adrenal overload my sense. Back to bed for 2 hours, then dishes-shower-now at work with much distracted thinking. Cleaning up the "errors of numbers" from last Wednesday at work. Am seeing the stark reminders of "errors in thinking" impact.

Good at pretending that all is well - an illusion. I have been struggling for past few weeks. Struggle with what "is my fault" in DD terror attack last week, and what was pressures that have nothing to do with me. so easy to accept the blame she pours over me as my reality too.

I really need help sorting this all out. My T is not very available - HMO limits on his schedule. Have very limited finanacial resources for outside HMO.

I printed out the twisted thinking and how to untwist thinking lbj posted links below. Will try to sort through these. Maybe start a new thread and get help from so many of my perceptive peers here.

The love I get from my church friends is a good thing, yet, they are not a therapy group to hear all my troubles. Mental illness puts up walls, and I need these as "normal" controls for the research that is my life. DD has her mental illness, and I have mine. And we seem to have really triggered each other.

Also have set aside my reading in Russell Meares books. There are many many triggers in his research on BPD for me with his focus on dissociation aspects of mental illness, BPD in particular. Old wounds are open and distracting me, unsettling me.

Gotta get back to work. Hopeful that posting will clear my mind so I can work better for another hour. Then home to be grandma for remainder of day.

qcr

[vivekananda]

It is so good to hear from you, I feel reassured. I am sorry you are ill, but of course that is so understandable. It seems you are calmer and that reassures me.

You said "what 'is my fault'," ... .  so I think you know what I have written below, but I have done so to just remind you. As with all my posts, it is also a reminder to me and clears up my thoughts too.

Does 'acceptance' allow for fault? Responsibility yes, fault no I would think. Fault is a negative, it is blaming and doesn't encourage an open heart and willingness to change. Fault encourages a defensive response because it is judgemental. Our task is not to judge is it? To judge implies good and bad. And therein lies a minefield of beliefs.

If my perception of things is correct, your current anxieties are based on unmet emotional needs. With a clear wisemind, it is possible for us to identify what it is that causes us such personal grief, and subsequently meet our own needs by identifying them and addressing them.

Sometimes though, the world intervenes and throws us off tangent. That is when we benefit from face to face clearminded feedback from someone who shares our journey. So, I am sorry that your T cannot be there as much as I would like for you. 

Still thinking of you and praying too!

Vivek      

[qcarolr]

Sometimes though, the world intervenes and throws us off tangent. That is when we benefit from face to face clearminded feedback from someone who shares our journey. So, I am sorry that your T cannot be there as much as I would like for you. 

There are others that can help me. Why do I hesitate to reach out to them? I use money as an excuse. What am I afraid of?

qcr  

[vivekananda]

I don't know that it's fear qcr. Maybe it is ... .  but if it were me it is just the thought of coping with yet another thing... .  but maybe you're right, it is fear. Fear of being told something you don't want to hear.

Again I think, if it were me, if I were spiralling downhill, I would be thinking stuff like: why does this always happen to me? I can't take any more! why doesn't someone attend to my needs? I can't do this anymore, I am too tired! All very familiar self talk.

In reality though I need to be saying instead: keep a clear head, find my wisemind, this too will pass, I can meet my own emotional needs, etc etc. all very familiar too.

So perhaps avoiding reaching out to someone who can help face to face is because I've let my negative self talk dominate. I am reminded of that cartoon with the evil devil on one shoulder and the saintly angel on the other, both whispering into my ear... .  if only it were that simple eh? With you things have been building up for a while until like one of those ugly pimples, it burst out all over the place, it's no wonder that you panicked. The thing is to look for those triggers so we can avoid hem in the future.

All I would want is a mother who would cuddle me and say it will be allright. I don't know about you, but I never had that anyway. So, all I would be doing is putting off facing my responsibilities. I would retreat to under the covers on my bed and sulk and deteriorate into deep depression. Such a sad place to be when in reality, I can accept it all and be happy.

So, qcr, please accept my warm cuddles    . Let me tell you that you will be allright      You can do what you need to do, you have all within you that you need, now reach out for some face to face feedback to help you get back on track. The road you are travelling is a hard and rough, but you are surrounded by beauty and best wishes, allow that to sustain you.

viv   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

So perhaps avoiding reaching out to someone who can help face to face is because I've let my negative self talk dominate. I am reminded of that cartoon with the evil devil on one shoulder and the saintly angel on the other, both whispering into my ear... .  if only it were that simple eh? With you things have been building up for a while until like one of those ugly pimples, it burst out all over the place, it's no wonder that you panicked. The thing is to look for those triggers so we can avoid hem in the future.

Love the pimple analogy - YUCK what a mess! And DD had her own puss to spew all over me - her stuff had been building up too. See, I just can't get her out of my mind - she is always there - and I am so very powerless in her life again. What the heck happened to my force field that used to protect me   Let my guard down, denied the cycling down and her spewing on others. So maybe she is reconnecting to her friends and now I am again the one that is poison to her.

All I would want is a mother who would cuddle me and say it will be allright. I don't know about you, but I never had that anyway. So, all I would be doing is putting off facing my responsibilities. I would retreat to under the covers on my bed and sulk and deteriorate into deep depression. Such a sad place to be when in reality, I can accept it all and be happy.

My mom loved me - I knew this. Yet she was not there for me - too many of us kids so close together. I miss my dad - he died in 1997 though if I listen he is still with me. Like the little smiling cherub on my desk. I can hear him humming as he builds things in his workshop. And I am crying now.

So, qcr, please accept my warm cuddles    . Let me tell you that you will be allright  You can do what you need to do, you have all within you that you need, now reach out for some face to face feedback to help you get back on track. The road you are travelling is a hard and rough, but you are surrounded by beauty and love, allow that to sustain you.

I am determined to remember I have been in the pit of darkness before and always have found the way out. I will again. And I am finding many here to help me figure out what I need, and get those needs met. Letting go of DD - actually not as hard as the last time, at least not yet. She is blowing off her probation. I am guessing she will be back in court soon, then off to jail at least 45 days and maybe longer. Then have to decide what level of support I can offer her while she is there. How do I figure out my boundaries here?

qcr

[lbjnltx]

I am determined to remember I have been in the pit of darkness before and always have found the way out. I will again. And I am finding many here to help me figure out what I need, and get those needs met. Letting go of DD - actually not as hard as the last time, at least not yet. She is blowing off her probation. I am guessing she will be back in court soon, then off to jail at least 45 days and maybe longer. Then have to decide what level of support I can offer her while she is there. How do I figure out my boundaries here?

qcr

Perhaps start with one committment to your dd and yourself:

I will advocate and not enable.

[qcarolr]

I will advocate and not enable.

I will leave the room when DD talking down to me or dh, and tell her that is why I am leaving room.

---have done this already today. Plenty to do in other parts of the house than wherever she parks herself today.

---told her I do not have to listen when she puts down dh. He is my husband, I love him and respect him, we can choose who we want to be. Then I left the room.

Breathe, breathe, breathe; took a .5 ativan.

Stressful day for dogs. Getting rocks moved in yard for dog run area. Lots of negotiation and compromise with dh to pay someone to get the done in one day. So hard for dh to let go of doing this - of paying money to have this done. I scoop the poop - I get an extra vote.

Another change in belief for me this week - our home is not a democracy. There are things that dh and I need to be united on that are not subject to debate - treating each other with kindness and respect, cleaning your own mess, no guests without our approval. This is the only way for dh and I to create a peaceful home for all of us.

Am also working to stop the negative self-talk and replace it with same message using positive language. This is untwisting distorted thinking. Did this with dh when getting yard ready last night for the rock movers today. Had to move travel trailer and hit the corner of the house - dh fixed gutter and header board as it got dark. I stopped myself from thinking - how stupid I am for not watching closer (and dh asked what was I doing when I should have been watching closer and yelling STOP to him). Also distracted and slow to respond in lineing up hitch on truck with tongue of trailer.

TWISTED THINKING: Labeling - "I am stupid" instead of "Gee, I was distracted and need to focus my attention.

UNTWISTED BY: Actually heard the 'stupid', stop and outloud said 'that is negative, this really is my distraction'.


qcr  

[vivekananda]

it's like that FOG isn't it? We can't see clearly in a fog.

I feel proud of you qcr, proud to know you. You are so smart to implement your boundaries ... .  again and again. And so strong really to do it, to pick yourself up. That is true resilience  . You are  (I just wanted to use that emoticon  )

Your value of respect has previously determined a primary boundary in your house before. How did it slip? When you are out of the FOG a bit more, when that negative voice is better controlled, perhaps you could see how it began to slide away. Retrospect is a great thing, it looks so obvious once it's all happened... .  pity we are just human eh?

oh, and a democracy is based on equality, fraternity and liberty. We judge how effective a democracy is by how it treats it's most vulnerable. Democracy is not who has the loudest voice or the most votes who determines what happens. You cannot have a democracy without agreement on basic rules of respect. I humbly and respectfully suggest it is a democracy you need. 

Cheers,

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

Vivek  - great feedback. Thanks.

Fog - lots of it triggered with disappointment in myself that was not based in reality - Personlization and blame. Invested a lot of energy last fall in assimilating bfM into our home and supporting DD in this r/s. See there was a lot of enabling here. As M drifted away from DD and become more and more self-possessed this destablized the household -- I took on too much responsibility for everyone else's stability. Like I had some kind of control here    Always Being Right. M became scary to me, and fear really shuts down the connections to my thinking for problem solving and for emotional regulation. And I get physically ill - this often gets me to pay better attention to how I am out of balance.

I have been unwilling to put DD out on the street - still troubled by this. Yet she is pushing the boundaries of overnight guests and we are sticking to that boudary - see how dh and I do over the long haul. Maybe experiencing extinction bursts - if we can stick to it rigorously .

Observed tonight that gd has withdrawn from her mom significantly. gd had playdate here (the only friend allowed at our house) and DD was trying to provoke argument about guest boundary when dh got home. dh just can't stop himself from debating this - he gets some kind of warped pleasure in debating whatever is on the table, at least until things get out of hand. I just said we were not going to do this with gd in the house, esp. when a friend was here. Then I left the room, and then DD left the room. Dh had legitimate points with DD, but she was getting loud and argumentative and it was going to get bad. And she is not in a state to respond to any logic.

Also had so much peace with DD gone for 3 days (2 nights). She return yesteday afternoon and left again in the evening - bfG had his mom's car. Then they were ringing the doorbell at 1:45 disturbing the whole household. G did not stay long. Think they were out dumpster diving since DD had some freshly washed stuff for gd this morning, which gd ignored. I think gd felt safer with her mom gone. DD came up to say goodnight tonight and gd looked the other way until DD walked out.

So desire a place for DD to go -- well jail is likely in next couple months. She is smoking pot today in garage - we have allowed this in the past as it calms her. Can see that it may also interfere with her seeking therapy since it also numbs the pain. But this is OK while she is stuck in our house. She was trying to be more connected with me this evening. Will see if she is feeling any remorse as week goes on. Glad I will be at work tomorrow.

Democarcy in our home:

Without treatment DD is unable to participate in democracy. She was often more able to be in a reciprocal r/s with us in past year, though this maybe was an illusion. Maybe she was just better able to suppress her anger, lonliness, and sense of unfairness of world (being the victim). And when I am down in any way (sick, tired, overwhelmed by responsibilites) she sucks me right into that triangle. We jump around it taking turns at each position, though DD is really good at persecutor and I jump in as victim then. When she is victim then I become rescuer. This has been part of my FOG. As I am gaining clarity I can stay out of this game.

Looking at the workshop tonight on untwisting my twisted thinking errors. The most common errors seem to be Personalization and Blame; Always Being Right (added to Dr. Burns list by BlackandWhite in workshop). As I move out of my FOG then I am able to better identity these thinking errors, and have energy to take time to think about it constructively. That is the first step: Identify the Distortion/thinking error.

I have been using these methods to untwist my thinking:

The Double Standard Method - being more compassionate with myself like I am talking to a friend.

The Semantic Method - rewording should statements.

Re-attribution - instead of blaming myself for entire problem, think about whole picture of what contributed to situation. Focus on problem solving. It uses up so much energy accepting DD's accusations and blaming that triggers lots of guilt and shame for me.

I am also reading a book suggested by a friend at church. (yes, I love books even though this often gets stuck in my head, not in a balance of wisemind). It has helped me get an alternative perspective. ":)aring Greatly: How the Courage to be Vulnerable Transforms the Way we Live, Love, Parent, and Lead" by Brene' Brown. I am about half way through it - lots of work with shame. I am so in denial about the level of shame I hold deep inside. Thought I worked through all this 25 years ago when memories of early childhood sexual abuse came up for me. (4 year old friend's father or babysitter - not clear on perpetrator; summer before kintergarden)

Here is a very important quote for me from this book:

"Shame enters for those of us who experience anxiety because not only are we feeling fearful, out of control, and incapable of managing our increasingly demanding lives, but eventually our anxiety is compounded and made unbearable by our belief that if we were just smarter, stronger, or better, we'd be able to handle everything. Numbing here becomes a way to take the edge off of both instability and inadequacy."

For me this shows up as avoidance, dissociation, and illness.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

It is good to see you clearheaded and I am glad I reread the Karpman triangle so I could clearly see what you were saying there.

I think balancing the boundaries (eg MJ yes, or no, or how... .  ) is such a difficult thing. From my experience your situation is so much more of a challenge than is mine, the fine lines in the sand are hard to see.

The most common errors seem to be Personalization and Blame; Always Being Right (added to Dr. Burns list by BlackandWhite in workshop).

This is/was and aspect of my personality that I grapple with, you could be describing me. My way of understanding how to deal with this I call 'detachment' which I read as one of the three components of mindfulness. My short hand way of explaining this concept to myself is: letting go of ego. I will begin to see myself getting too big for my boots, perhaps a touch frenetic in my mind... .  assured of my rightness. Usually I have said or done something that gets a response - or doesn't get a response, that I would want. I tell myself then, slow down, be gentle, be humble - I don't know it all. And I try to correct the behaviour/thinking that lead to this and I remind myself to 'let go of ego'. As for personalisation. I tell myself that I shouldn't take myself so seriously, why should I assume it is always about me? There may be lots of reasons for 'this' to have happened... .  and I remind myself to 'let go of ego'. When I start to say, 'yes but'... .  and I look elsewhere for someone or something to blame, including myself, well I stop and think, that's all fine and dandy, but it is not productive, who am I to judge? and I need to 'let go of ego'. It is just my mantra to remember that I am just one small part of the universe, albeit a very important part  , I am not the centre of the universe. I have been consciously working on this for almost 5 years and I can still feel myself getting to big for my boots.

"Shame enters for those of us who experience anxiety because not only are we feeling fearful, out of control, and incapable of managing our increasingly demanding lives, but eventually our anxiety is compounded and made unbearable by our belief that if we were just smarter, stronger, or better, we'd be able to handle everything. Numbing here becomes a way to take the edge off of both instability and inadequacy."

I used to be overwhelmed by feelings of guilt. It would sweep over me in waves and I still can experience it in a much milder version than before. Thing is, I don't need to have done anything wrong. I am not sure if my 'guilt' and 'shame' are the same thing, but I suspect it is so. I could in my logic mind say, how ridiculous is this! But still it would crush me and I would feel so bad. Not bad as in feel terrible, but bad as in feel like I was such a bad person. This was worse when I was younger and over the years it has lessened now it will still occasionally occur, but it is now mild and insignificant. I think it was positive self talk that made this better.

When I am not strong enough to manage myself - and this is getting less and less frequent, I have ultra high anxiety, depression to a deep, deep, low. Fortunately since meeting my friends here especially, I have become better equipped and I believe I can cope with what the world sends me... .  but time will tell eh?

If, qcr, you, me and our friends here can lean from our mistakes and other's mistakes, then those mistakes have perhaps been of value. The trick is to recognise a mistake and understand how to prevent it happening again.

Cheers,

viv     

ps I think I understand disassociation and it scares me, it feels as if it is a seductive place to be. I am grateful it is not a serious issue for me. I hope you can also keep it at bay