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Author Topic: Suicide scare for Christmas  (Read 1284 times)
jellibeans
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« on: December 26, 2012, 02:20:43 PM »

We had a good christmas... .opened gifts... .lounged around... .whole family went out to see hobbit movie... .thought everything was good until I got a call at 1:30am from a mother of a friend of hers saying dd had been texting with her daughter and had told her she had taken pills and was going to kill herself.

And so it begins again... .found her in the closet with melatonin all over the place and she had vomited some up... .woke my husband got her dressed and took her to the ER... .after testing her that found she had no meds in her system... .talked with the social worker and she sent us home.

I didn't see it coming... .I am still researching RTC but have not found one I like completely... .she is angry and upset upon release... .she is unhappy she has lost her phone and sleepover privileges ... .if everything is taken from her why does she need to go on... .she says she is going to stop trying... .I just got home early this morning and she has been sleeping all day... .I am lost and could use some help.
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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 03:40:56 PM »

Your daughter is in a lot of pain.

You are in a lot of pain.

How can we help?
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 03:46:22 PM »

It sounds like this is repetitive behavior. Where is the family like? Are you with her biological dad or separated? When did the suicide attempts begin? When did things change? She is looking for some form of attention. Is she being cyber bullied? What events lead up to her doing this?

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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 04:11:53 PM »

She has always been difficult but things started to get worse in middle school. And then really bad freshman year... .but the last 6 months have been the worse three suicide attempts... .run away 4 times... .hopitalized 3 times Er twice... .

Our family is together... .married 20 years... .older daughter 18... .dd15... I will say she has put a great deal of stress upon us all.

We had a good christmas... .I didn't see it coming... .we opened gifts and had a quiet day then to the movies... .I have no idea why... .

I just can't find a RTC that I like... .I keep looking but today has to be one of the lowest for my family... .I am reading as fast as I can't to try and figure out how to help. She was only diagnosed at Halloween when she was found in her closet again... .cutting and crying and begging to go to the hospital... .
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 04:15:37 PM »

jellibeans

I am so sorry.  Like Beingmindful said, it is painful, all the way around.  pwBPD, as you know, live each day in so much pain.  It is like our most painful, awful, unrelenting day, never-ending, but for us, there is usually some relief.  For them, it is ongoing.  The trigger can seem slight to you and me, but to them, it can seem epic.  How scary for all of your family.  And thank goodness the parent of your dd's friend did not brush this under the rug.

What is her current support and what is yours?  As hard as this may be to hear, it is so important to care for yourself too at this time.  So many of us have allowed self neglect to run us down to empty.  It is hard enough to have to support during a crisis, but to do so when you are run down is even more exhausting.  I pray that she has a good therapist who can step in and help

Please, when you can and feel able, keep posting.  BPD seems to strike out of the blue in the most serious ways.
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2012, 04:18:51 PM »

If you search for lbjnltx's posts, (Moderator), her dd had great success at a RTC facility (In Utah?).  I am sure if you send her an email, she will reply with contact details.

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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 04:29:23 PM »

She has two therapist... .one she has seen for the past year and a half and another new one that she sees for group and tomorrow will start individual as well. She is the DBT therapist and my dd seems tolike her and is willing to go. We have a family therapist aswell that we have only recently started with over the past 5 weeks or so... .she has her psychiatrist she has seen for two years almost.

Do think you are right I do think it was something small... .maybe because I was sitting next to my older daughter during the movie and taling with her... .maybe she felt left out... .I am just guessing... .but she did sneak in my room earlier in the day to take the bottle of pills so I think she had it planned to wait until after Christmas... .after she got her gifts... .that was her goal to get through christmas for me she told me... .

now she is taking a shower and asking about hanging out with friends... .wants to know when she gets her phone back and wants to go out for New Years Eve with friends... .
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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2012, 04:31:17 PM »

Yes I have looked at that one in Utah but I feel I need to visit first before commiting to one and it is far from here... .it also has horse therapy and my daughter tried that this summer and hated it... .would just get angrier everytime we went... .hates horse which is not true... .she loves animals and small kids but now claims she doesn't... .
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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 04:40:35 PM »

I think there would be a natural resistance to any RTC for pwBPD.  Saying she hates this or that is pretty normal, and no doubt she is afraid.  I have not read many other posts where there was a successful outcome.  But also get the feeling that that facility is very expensive.

Are you able to confer with the T and Pdoc before allowing her to go out?  Is it better to stick with the restrictions (for her safety and that of her friends) you placed?

Don't allow BPD undermine your parenting.  Don't second guess yourself.  You must be so weary, and BPD is so strong.

I wish you strength and confidence right now.

mik
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 05:22:31 PM »

thank you mikmik

you are right I will continue retrictions through the holidays but that just tends to make her more unhappy... .I told her I would see how the next few days go and maybe she could have a friend come to visit... .part of the problem she feels isolated and alone... .fuels the depression and the suicidal thoughts... .

I am hoping her therapist will be of some help tomorrow... .her doc didn't bother to call me back today... .again... .might need to find a new one
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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 05:41:08 PM »

Does she ever say why she tried to kill herself?
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« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 05:58:55 PM »

no she doesn't know... .she just said she was trying so hard to be good and she just couldn't do it anymore... .she had a goal to get through Christmas and that is what she did... .she has no explaination... .she regrets it and promises she would not do it again... .but she had promised this before... .
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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 12:15:05 AM »

jellibeans 1962,

My BPDd15 also had a suicide attempt and was found to have no drugs in her system. She wasn't able to articulate why she wanted to kill herself either. The assumption was attention by all professionals involved as to a motive. It was so scary. I have found in her case that the less inflammatory reaction given, the fewer these episodes. I am in nursing and I can now feel myself switch over to a calm assessing mode. Inside my brain is shrieking!  I have also locked all meds in a metal box. I also realize you can't lock everything harmful away. I just found 80 candles in her room, I guess the burning has started. It is exhausting trying to keep one step ahead. I hope you find her the right therapist!  In the meantime, realize you can't possibly keep her in a bubble, and make sure you do what your conscience will allow. Be kind to yourself.
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2012, 04:00:11 AM »

Sorry to hear of your dd's sucide attempt jellibeans.my dd18 took an overdose when she was 12yo that scared us all, but pointed to her being found out in a big lie that she had told and I guess at the time she would have rather died than live with the shame. Fortunatley she hasnt OD'd since then or self harms. From what I have read there isnt always an event that triggers their self harm it is more to do with the emptiness that pwBPD carry around all the time inside them is a driving force for them to try to find a way out.

One of the saddest things I read on this board once was that someones dd felt just like a walking carcass just waiting to die. I cant imagine feeling like that on a daily basis.

Now that it pretty sad.  
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2012, 04:13:49 AM »

jellibeans,

Sounds just like my dd, she is now 18. Started getting depressed age 11/12 had a bad first year in high school, then started self harm, went from bad to worse at 16 hospitalized, then after that in and out of ER every month and sectioned etc.

Things much better for the last year, we also have no family problems,  she had a brilliant childhood/life, very much loved by me and dh/dad.

We have found that therapy and RTC didnt work, mostly due to dd not responding and hating it PD traits so I just learn as much as I can and try to work with her.

These people are desperate for help, desperate to feel ok/normal. Thats why the cry for help.

I hope things get better

HB
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« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2012, 06:57:46 AM »

Dear jellibeans,

It would be wise to do everything you can do while you have the power to do it.

Hundreds of parents to adolescent children have come through this site wishing they had the means to get residential treatment for their children. 

Choosing the one that is best for your d is paramount.  Weeding through them all is a lot of work.  You are correct that visiting before placement is very important. 

I would encourage you to explore your vetting process... .ask self what your d needs... .not what she "likes".  Learning to cope with difficult things/situations/relationships is the goal of RTC... .it isn't supposed to be easy... .it is supposed to be a challenge that they learn to rise to and emerge victorious.  Through this process they learn that they can do it... .that they are capable.
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« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2012, 02:47:22 PM »

jellibeans... .in addressing the loss of phone and sleepover priveleges and your dd 's feelings of those consequences  leaving her with no reason to go on, I have found that how I handle holding her responsible for her actions with her cell has had to change.  I love and hate the whole phone thing.  Mostly hate  Smiling (click to insert in post) but love on those occasions that it has literally turned out to be the instrument that has saved dd17 's life.  For this reason, I no longer take it from her.  In our experiences with cutting, suicide attempts and running away, her having it, after all is said and done, has been better than her not having it for ME.  So, why punish myself?  I can and have blocked certain #'s and services and have told her if need be i have the ability to program only our home #, in addition to 911, if need be.    Just something you may want to consider.    L.
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« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2012, 04:53:52 PM »

Yes it is a hard line to walk sometimes... .her phone is the cause of a lot of problems at our home. I do think it she didn't have her phone (an audience) she probably would not have made her suicide attempt. She was texting with new friends and I think was looking for attention. Many of things she does is for attention... .she needs it constantly... .it is draining.

I have decided to let her have her phone back for short periods and to take it up at night so she is not tempted to act this way again. Maybe for new years she can have a friend come and sleepover and we can see how that goes. She seems to have a great deal of energy. Painted her room yesterday and cleaned out my closet the day before that... .I worry when I see this high level of activity.

I recently had a doctor advise me to try to keep her out of RTC if possible... .says things will get better and she will mature... .not sure she know what she is talking about or if she really understands BPD... .thanks for everyones advise... .I was pretty down there for a while after Christmas... .just didn't see it coming and I felted anger after towards her which I know is wrong but it was just so dishonest what she did... .here is to a good new years everyone...
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« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2012, 07:35:21 PM »

jellibeans, Listen to your instinct, your gut. Get a second opinion if need be. Don't take the advice of avoiding RTC based on one opinion. Get a third if you need to and listen carefully to what is inside of you, don't turn that off. Also before she turns of age, act now before its too late.
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« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2012, 07:47:26 PM »

Hmmmm. . .I thought that I just replied, but it looks as though it didn't 'take'.  At the risk of repeating myself here goes:

My dd is 24.  If I could turn back the hands of time, I absolutely would have put her in a RTC.  They say that early intervention is the key, and I feel that in my daughters case that it would have helped (at least she would not be addicted to substances).  Also, two of her friends had an early intervention and went to a RTC and both, right now, do not meet the criteria for BPD.  Of course, that doesn't mean that it would work for everyone, but in at least two cases it did.

Here's the big one:  I highly, highly, highly, recommend McLean Hospital's 3 East for her.  My daughter went there and it was miraculous, incredible etc. ...   I also know of 5 other girls that went there and ALL of them felt that it was very, very, worthwhile.  Now that doesn't mean that they are all doing great right now, what it means is that if you stick with what they taught, then it's an EXTREMELY effective place.  McLean's program is 4 - 6 weeks intensive DBT.  Afterwards they will recommend rtc's that they feel would best fit your daughters needs.  Once again, I would highly recommend it.

The best of luck to you!  We're all in this together . . .
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« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2012, 07:53:07 PM »

jellibeans

I agree with beingmindful.  if you decide to go the RTC route it is best done before they turn 18.  Two reasons.  After 18 they can legally refuse but mor importantly is that their brains are more open to all the positive parts of treatment.

Go see every place that might be on your short list, be the sqeaky wheel, ask to speak to other parents whose kiddos have been there, and spend lots of time at each place observing.1
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« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2012, 08:32:59 PM »

jellibeans, I just wanted to add something else that you might find pertinent.  My first post on this board was a question that asked:  Does it ever get any better?  If you go to that post (it is number 24 on my lists of posts), a member named "Schwing" answered my post in a way that I felt was very thought provoking and wise.

Addressing the fact that the psychiatrist suggested that your daughter NOT go to an RTC due to the fact that 'she might get better':  I run a support group where I live for people that have loved ones with BPD.  There are 3 people in the group that have older daughters (30, 35 and 42) that have never had any treatment (and never would agree to treatment) and they are not doing well at all . . I can't even begin to tell you the nightmare which they (and their families) are living. 

Also, when my daughter was seeing a very well experienced life coach (she had been in charge of a good RTC), she told me that if my daughter did not get the treatment she needed, that due to her experience, she felt that at the age of 27 that she would be conserved and that by the age of 35 that she would be living permanently in a facility.  Just wanted to pass on what she said . . .   (thankfully my daughter is getting additional treatment right now).

Once again, good luck!
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« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2012, 10:21:34 PM »

Someday - it is harder with our older BPDkids - they have a lot of history of resistance to treatment. Yet, I know that things have gotten better with my DD26 and with other's here at bpdfamily.com with grown kids when we have worked through changes in ourselves and how we relate to our kids. It is so much more hopeful than i thought it would ever be when I first came here for help in 2009 after DD was first dx BPD (added to long list of other dx's from her younger years). Learning Radical Acceptance, validation (myself first than everyone else, then DD) and values-based boundaries.

Even with success in an rtc, the whole family making improvements is what seems to help lead to a longer term success. The BPD really does not get 'cured' - it becomes managed with good skills and a supportive community (home, school, peers, work, therapists & docs, etc.). And it is so very very true - once they hit the legal age to say "no way", as parents we become powerless to get them into a therapeutic environment that can push them past their resistance.

If I end up on this road as my gd7 grows up - if she flips into the genetic pattern of BPD - I will be prepared to get he whatever she needs. My greatest hope is that the skills I have learned and am using with her, and my DD26, already will lead to gd having what she needs to cope with her life as an adolescent and young adult.

qcr  
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« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2012, 07:09:39 AM »

Someday

I am very familiar with the McLean Center in MA .  But it is only for women.  Do you know of anything similar for adult men?  My ds is 29 and is currently in jail but the court might mandate mandatory residential treatment instead of more jail time.

He previously spent a month at Menninger's in Houston but that was a disaster.

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« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2013, 11:41:24 PM »

I am sitting here with a sick feeling in my stomach... .  the kind you get when you know there is trouble on the way. My daughter was raging tonight and telling me she is done trying... .  she doesn't care any more... .  not going to try at school and waiting to move out away from us.

She got herself dressed like she is going out... .  my husband is sleeping downstairs and hope he can stop her if she decides to run. So I am just trying to remain calm and not get upset. The holidays are extra trouble for us. She seems unmotivated to do anything and has been sleeping a lot. She slept last night until 11pm then woo too up for new years... .  I was up until 3am because I was afraid to go to sleep while she was awake.

Thank you to everyone for your advise... .  I really can't tell you how much it means to me. I keep looking for a RTC and hoping in the meantime she gets something out of the DBT she is going to now.

What is hard for me is that she can be very good and I do get my hopes up... .  how do you remain positive... .  how do you remain optimistic ... .  is that even possible? What dose the last straw look like?
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« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2013, 01:22:48 AM »

just one more update... .  she has been raging all night... .  getting angry and verbally abusive and storming off to her room only to rest and come back and bargain again... .  she has also repierced  her nose again... .  why I am not sure... .  her school doesn't allow it and she will have to take it out in a couple of days.

Could this be what this is all about... .  her anxiety is starting to build as school gets closer? I truly feel beaten down tonight... .  
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« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2013, 02:16:48 AM »

Hi jellibeans, sorry for what you are going through, we have been through the same,  more than once, when dd was under 16 mostly. Then from 16 to 18 it got worse in a lot of ways with us often ending up in ER then dd used to be sectioned. Horrible horrible times.

I was thinking when I read your last post, what would I do in your position? well knowing what I know now, Id do nothing, I wouldnt get upset, definitely not take it personally, but just be there for dd, try to validate, and just let her be.

I was a prisoner, because I was so concerned she would be one of those faces you see on milk bottles saying "missing" then things got worse and I was worried shed be a tramp on the streets, so I tried so hard to be so accommodating, looking back, I do not think it was helpful.

I remember the consultant at the hospital saying to me why do I worry, just let her go, she will be back. I couldnt do it, but to be honest she did run away and she did it many times but the worse was when she did it and lived on the streets at 16 for two weeks, my friends used to see her and tell me she was with the drunks and the homeless, I was so upset. That doctor was right really.

I always say dd will do what dd wants to do, she does not listen to anyone.

But then, things changed, I learnt how to look after her, I read a book that turned it all round a corner, sure things are/werent perfect, but I learnt tools to help me. I read Valerie Porrs book, I saw the compassion in it, which is what I do have for my dd.

Keep us posted, sounds like your dd is doing a cry for help, she must feel desperate but does not know how to ask for help.

Take care
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« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2013, 07:45:18 AM »

Here goes Everyone, Insurance Question!

My dd's T says my insurance company does not feel my dd is making progress, enough.   T KNOWS that my dd HATES the outpatient program that is offered a local MH Facility.  Won't go.  But there is an inpatient RTC program for adult women, and it deals with BPD, Eating Disorders, etc.  Not too far.  She thinks she could work with dd to agree to go, to get out of rut here at home.  To get the support and care she needs.  However, back to insurance, they want her to FAIL out of the out patient day program at the hospital that dd HATES.  T and I know that if she has to get a bad taste in her mouth from the day program, she will never agree to go to the RTC program (which has a higher rate of success).  DD is 19.  This is a very tricky thing.

It seems to me that it would be more costly to the insurance company, my T said she would go to bat for dd, we will see,  I don't know how much is covered at any rate.

I hope this fits the thread, as we all hope that we can get the care we need for our children, but the hoops and road blocks, especially for the ill, are so unkind.

mik
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« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2013, 10:10:38 AM »

Dear jellibeans etal,

Finding the right program and getting it funded are 2 different issues.  Once you find the program you believe is the one get with the Behavioral Health department of your insurance company and get to work.  Don't forget to ask the director of the RTC to weigh in about insurance coverage.  Most will work with any insurance company to get treatment coverage.

Be careful!  I don't want to be negative here... .  yet my experience w/insurance companies has not been good.  Find your insurance certificate (not just your policy) and ask 3 different people (you may well get 3 different answers) to explain your coverage and your certificate ... .  guess what... .  my policy reads different than my certificate.  The certificate trumps the policy.  Invoke your rights through every channel you can find.  School (IEP, advocates for children w/special needs), federal law (No Child Left Behind, Parity Act) ,State laws (medically dependant child), Insurance coverage, Legal (there are funds for victims of crimes)... .  anything and everything.

If you can't find a way... .  make one.  Insurance companies are businesses that exist to make a profit... .  you most likely will have to fight for what your child is entitled to.  Be ready. 
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