Suicide attempt

[vivekananda]

when you step outside, look up to the sky and draw energy from the universe around you. It is there just for you, those clouds, the trees, the people - everything - positive energy to warm your heart and lift your spirits.

best wishes,

Vivek    

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

thank you Vivek ... .  I did just that... .  I went out for dinner with friends and tried not to think of my dd... .  usually I would be looking at my phone... .  checking was there some problem? does she need me? can we leave her alone for a few hours?

My dd didn't want to see me today again... .  I am missing her... .  does she not miss me? Tomorrow I am not sure what to do... .  do I just go for visitation and hope she sees me? I am not sure what to do or why she is refusing to see me... .  

It is a bit sad how she can toss me aside with no feelings... .  I am not sure she is capable of love... .  

[vivekananda]

Hi jellibeans, I have been thinking of you   

It is heartbreaking when our children seem to be so cruel and heartless. But I don't think they have any idea of the implications of their actions. Their reality, I have always thought, is like the world of soap dramas on tv. There has to be a drama of some sorts every 15 mins, which hangs in suspense for a little while, and then is resolved without anyone doing anything really.

I think your dd does what she does to manage her own pain, she knows you love her and are there for her, so she is safe behaving that way. She does it because she can. Also, since she undoubtedly blames you for not fixing her problems and making her all better, she hits out knowing she is being hurtful without any appreciation for the consequences of what she does. She is capable of love and does love you but this BPD interferes with and drowns out all else. She is doing what she thinks she needs to do to survive the pain and confusion she feels.

Her BPD means that whenever close personal relationships are involved, she feels most intense emotional responses. It is the key to BPD issues. She is overwhelmed by those basic emotions of fear and anger and hits out wherever she can. Who is the safest person to hit? Mum of course.

All of our kids do it differently. Mine does n/c with me and it feels good to her when she initiates it and the pressure that my mere presence causes her is relieved. Over time, she gets used to it, and thinks that this is best for her. She has too much reinforcement in the world for her view of things.

Sweet jellibeans, your dd is 15, she is at the stage in her life when this can be turned around. It is the most intense time for you all, but it is the time where there is much hope. She needs to security of your love for her, the validation of her emotions and experience by you and if possible, the treatment that can help her change her thinking patterns. 

Adolescence is a special sort of trial for them, for us. But we are the adults and it is not about us, it is about our children and how they come out the other end.

I am sending you buckets of best wishes,

Vivek    

[jellibeans]

Thank you Vivek

You make a lot of sense... . I think all you have said is correct... . I am trying to remain hopeful for my dd. That is key... . remain positive and never give up hope.

She called today... . she was angry... . wanted more clothes and read off her demands. I told her I could bring them tomorrow during visiting hours. She told me she didn't want to see me. I asked why and she said she was in the hospital because of me. I tried to point out that she was there because of her choices but she hung up on me. I will not be bringing her clothes tomorrow. I know she has plenty... . she just called to rage at me I guess.

I am also giving away her guinea pig that I got her a few months ago... . It is stressful to me... . I am always worrying about it... . feeding it... I told her that if she couldn't tak care of it I would have to find it a new home... . if she was going run away from home or make suicide attempts then I really couldn't depend on her to take care of it... . I told her this about a month ago when she ran away... . I am sure she won't be happy about it being gone but the stress I feel about this little animal is too much.

I have been extremely sad these past few days... . especially last night. I think I just cried the whole night. I am trying to do the best for her but realizing it is not enough. I hope tomorrow I find out where she is going. I hope it is RTC but that will depend if there is a bed or not and of course our insurance. I am also looking at a theraputic boarding school and see what I can find for her. We are committed to finding the best help for her regardless of the cost.

Thank you Vivek  for your post and for thinking of me. I really don't think any of my friends truly understand and I have not told many of our struggles. I will update tomorrow... . I hope I have some good news to share.

[vivekananda]

I hope your news is good too, sometimes we just need a break.

I suspect that you like the rest of us, have struggled with boundaries in the past. I suspect that you, like the rest of us had no idea of what it meant to be validating (if we are not validating, we are in fact invalidating). Our first rule is to take care of ourselves.

I suspect that working on acceptance and practising validation is the most valuable priority for you (apart form being a good advocate for your dd).

Sweet jellibeans, others don't understand because they want life to be simple, and BPD and its effects on others, is so complex. Others don't like to see us hurting and feel powerless to help. Few people we come across are validating. We suffer from a lack of validation from others - but ultimately, as adults, we can learn to validate ourselves anyway. I am forthright these days and say my dd has a mental illness to strangers, to family I easily say she has a PD and to those closest to me I say BPD. I listen to their pathetic attempts to explain it away or be consoling and I clarify the situation for them baldly. I try to leave no room for misunderstanding... .

Take care of yourself jellibeans, we are always here,

Vivek    

[jellibeans]

Update: My dd 15 has been accepted into a RTC near by (an hours drive)... . I am going tomorrow to discharge her from P hospital and then I will drive down to RTC to admit her and bring all her clothes and stuff. The RCT will be transporting her. She called me today and was pretty angry and was also quite abusive to me. I can't risk transporting her myself. I know she is scared and afraid. She doesn't do well with change and I am sure she is having some anxiety over where she will end up. I know this is a good thing for her but that doesn't make it easy on our family. I am grief stricken and have been crying for days.

I hope tomorrow is the beginning of a new start for my dd and our whole family. I am clinging to hope and trying to see off into the future when she will be home and happy. I am thinking a lot about the triangle (rescuer/prescutor/victim) I am trying to stay in the middle but that is easier said than done. I will start a new post once I have some news to share. Thanks for everyone's kind words and support. Really means a lot to me.

[jellibeans]

Well a week after being admitted to ER then P hospital she is in a RTC... . I went to the P hospital to fill out discharge papers and the nurse said she wanted to talk with me... . I was a bit shocked because she had refused to see me the whole time she was there. She came in and wanted the nurse to leave us alone but because of our recent phone conversations the nurse said no.

She started out okay just asking about where she was going etc... . asking what I had packed for her and if I could drive her. I said the RTC would be picking her up and driving her because I was worried she would try to run or just rage at me the whole way. She slowly became angry and started yelling at me... . the nurse said the visit was over but she quickly said she would be good and we continued to talk but within a few minutes she was yelling again and the nurse asked me to leave... . she refused to go back to group and was crying and very upset... . I went to the elevators and I could see she was not complying with what the nurse wanted and she was very upset... . and that is how i left her.

I went directly to the RTC and meet with nurse, admissions and the T. My h and me spent 2 hours going over her history until I had to leave to take my older daughter to a doctor's appointment I had set up well over a month ago. My husband stayed to fill out forms and take a tour. I really don't know what to think of the place. They don't do DBT therapy and they have a levels program where the kids get more freedom the better they behave... . I really don't like that kind of system. I think it is setting her up for failure unless they give her skills to behave and control her emotions. They do practice PPC... . I talked with her P today (he is finally back from vacation) he had some patients go to this RTC and had success.

It is really going to be in dd's hands now... . I hope she can get over her anger and try to work with us all to get better. She says she doesn't want to see us and she is not going to family therapy.

She looked so tired and like she had been crying. She looked sacred and fragile. We will see how she does there. I will try to remain positive. Will this be enough to kick start some change in her world?

[vivekananda]

jellibeans, the hurt and sadness you are feeling as a mother is immense. If your tears and all the tears of we here were put together, it would be a river that we could swim in. Of course, being salty, we would feel buoyant as we travelled together along that river. There must be a purpose in our tears.

From what I understand the move to an RTC is a new beginning with another set of stresses for you to come to grips with. You have some excellent support here from those who have experienced and are experiencing the same.

From me though, I want to remind you to take care of yourself so you can be strong for your dd.

Vivek    

[BioAdoptMom3]

I am so sorry you had to leave your daughter in that state of mind.  That is so heart wrenching   ! 

My 13 y/o was just in a facility like that, where they upped your levels when you earned it, when we learned she was bulimic. It did seem to work well for her but in our case it was where she was diagnosed with BPD traits, so that was a positive.  Prior to that all we had as a dx was depression and anxiety. Hopefully they will work with your DD on appropriate ways to control her emotions.  How often and for how long will you be able to visit her?  Do you have any idea about how long they plan to keep her there?  She is in my prayers, and so are you.  It is so hard being the parent of a mentally ill child!

[somuchlove]

Be strong.   I know it has to be so hard on you and our family.  Just remember to keep a perspective as best you can.  I hope she can find some peace and take a step forward so you can as well.

[jellibeans]

She just called  me crying and telling me how sorry she is and when can she come home. I think she is scared and frightened ... . she also told me they have not given her any of her things... . no pjs ... . no toothbrush... . no blankets from home? they say they are taking inventory and she will get it tomorrow? I am sorry but we went to check her in at noon today... . they couldn't get her pjs or a toothbrush? Are they trying to stress her? Scare her straight?

She has asked me to come and see her tomorrow... . I told her I would call and see if I can... . I was told I could visit everyday and call everyday... . not sure I should go but I will try. I think it is finally setting in that this is all happening and she is there for the long run... . might be what it takes to get her motivated but I think it could be done in a kinder manner.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[somuchlove]

How heart renching it must be for you.  I would not be afraid to ask questions, lots of questions about what they are doing and what the plan is for your dd.  You have a right to know !   Do they understand or has she been diagnosed with BPD.  I am sorry but I haven't had time to read a lot about your situation.  I found with my dad, being in the hospital and care center I needed to not be afraid to ask ask ask.  Don't be afraid to be assertive when needed and know what is going on.  There needs to be trust in treatment but don't assume they are always doing what is right.  I am glad in that situation that I stayed on top of things, was curtious, listened and stayed involved.  Your dd needs to know that you are hearing what she is telling you. Validation, support, love from you will maybe allow her to then be open to their help.  I am no expert and don't know the whole story here.  Know I am thinking about you.  Hope you can get a little rest tonight.

[BioAdoptMom3]

I am not sure why they won't allow them to have some of the things they will not allow them to have, but our DD too was not allowed to have very many things from home.  She did get her PJs, but nothing with strings, nothing sharp (no jewelry at all), no toiletries.  They handed out toiletries in the morning and evening at hygiene time only.  She was not allowed to have any pillows and blankets from home and she actually had to move her mattress out in the hall and sleep there because of the suicidal thoughts.  I know some things they held onto or made us take home because of safety reasons, but I am sure some of that was also because they did not want to be responsible for it or store it. 

I agree with you that it is a good idea to go see her tomorrow!  Good luck with that and update us tomorrow if you can.  Prayers!

[Cici]

In all the hospitals my d13 has been at there were restrictions on personal items.  Each hospital had it's own procedure for what and when they gave her personal items to her.  It's distressing and unexpected, not unusual.  I agree, I wish there were a kinder easier path.  I am struggling with that same issue now as you know with d13 in RTC.  I repeat the mantra,"I know she is physically safe, she cannot harm herself.  We are here by her actions and choices, there were other paths we tried, she refused them."

I have to find peace in that in those moments I can find no other peace.

[jellibeans]

Yes I will try and remember that CICI... . she is there because of her choices... . she has to understand we are not going to stand by and let her repeat the same mistakes without trying to work on her issues. We are all committed to going to therapy andhelping her the best we can.

They do have some restriction on what she can have but the things I brought were okay... . they just didn't bother to inventory them so she could have them for bedtime... . I do see that as unkind... . and unorganized... .

I hope you dd is doing good... .

[jellibeans]

So I called this morning to see how dd had slept etc... . I got an answering machine and left a message. I called Admissions and left a message for them to call as I had a question about why she didn't get her clothes. Put a call into therapist at ask about visiting... . told we could not visit while she was on watch... . something we were not told previously... . I requested we see her on sunday for Easter. I also called the unit director and left a message as well.

No one returned my calls except the therapist... . so called everyone again... . I called to admissions... . she apologized for not calling me back... . said she didn't get my message... . she told me dd should have been able to pick out a few things and then they would inventory the rest... . she was very sorry and switched me over to the nurse to see how she had been etc... . I then got a call from the unit director who explained and apologized and told us she would get her things tonight.

I call at our scheduled time to talk to dd... . she tell me she has none of her things. Also during our whole conversation there is yelling in the hall... . really loud yelling... . like it sounds the people are yelling directly into the phone... . they are yelling so loud that I can't even hear my dd.

I know there is an adjustment period but really... . how long does it take for my dd to get her personal items? Why are my calls not returned? this is all getting old fast.

[lbjnltx]

Dear jellibeans,

I understand this is all so very hard for you.  Balancing your needs with letting go of control over your d's care.  When we give over our precious children to a facility we give up the managing of their environment to others.   That can be scarry and cause us some anxiety.  It is very difficult to be in wisemind when we are anxious and scarred (or any other intense emotion). 

These facilities are businesses.  They are busy people with full schedules.  While frustrating for us, they have their jobs to do and we have to let them do it without personalizing their actions/inactions.  They are managing the care of dozens of children and their families of which you and your's are one.  Looking for the grey between the black and the white to achieve a balance can relieve the stress and frustration.

Can you allow the facility space to do the best they can while you do the best you can?  It takes time to gain understanding of how the facility operates, who staff are, when the best time to speak to them occurs in their daily schedule.  I'm not suggesting you step out, just step back a bit and give them a chance.  Be an observer and student for a bit.  Waiting without answers is the hardest part... . it was for me too.

What can you do to self soothe during these times of high stress?  You can come here and write about it to us... . what else?  Do you meditate? Do you like to garden or have lunch with friends?  Can you separate the things that frustrate you and think about them each individually instead of collectively?

For example... . your d slept in her clothes.  How important is that in the grand scheme of things?  My d falls asleep in her clothes frequently... . what damage does this cause really?  Your d didn't have a toothbrush her first or maybe even her second night there.  Will not brushing her teeth for 2 days result in huge problems... . probably not.

For your own well being and the possibility of your d getting the help/care she needs it is imperative that you give up some control.  Be an advocate for her without being a rescuer.  The facility is in charge of managing her now.  Will you give them a chance?  This facility may only turn out to be a place to get diagnostics and stabilization.  Can you accept that? 

Any progress our kids make is hard fought for, time and energy draining and expensive.  Accepting this truth goes a long way towards relieving frustration.  

Let me know your thoughts and feelings about all this.  It's a lot to take in.

 

lbj

[jellibeans]

I know you are right lbj... . I understand what you are saying... . I will try not to put too much importance upon these few bumps in the road... . but I feel I can't totally ignore them either... . if they can't do the small things how can I depend on them to do the big stuff... . ?

My nerves are completely shot and I am worn out that is true... . I did go to lunch with friends yesterday and that was nice break. I have to drive to Dallas today for my older daughters doctor's appointment... . maybe we can get in some shopping while there. I am going to see about seeing a therapist because you are right I am having a difficult time with this all.

You are very wise lbj... . thank you for your post... . it is hard to think straight when things are so stressful and when you are so tired. We have family therapy set for Monday so we can start trying to work as a family to help dd.

Are there any resources here to help parents when their kids are in RTC? I will look but if you have anything please send it my way... . you should consider writing a book lbj... . a manual... . there was talk of a survival manual... . I could sure use one right now. I don't know if I am wise enough or have the skills to be in the middle.

[Cici]

I feel the same way, I don't have words to comfort you beyond it appears to be very much a part of the process we as mothers must go through.  I am praying every day for god to give me the courage to accept that this is where dd needs to be. 

 I hope you find some peace today and your daughters things will be given to her so you know she will feel some of the comforts of home and your love.

[lbjnltx]

Sorry jellibeans... . no manual.  I only know what I know from having lived through it all before others like yourself and CICI.  The closest thing we have here on the site would be the case history of my d's journey.

My concerns about the RTC in the beginning were all addressed eventually.  The support, observations and advice I received from the members here was valuable.

Using the skills we have here on the site apply to each of us in our own situations.  If we struggle with personalizing we have the skills on the site to guide us in addressing that issue.  If we struggle with black/white thinking we have the skills to address that as well.  If we are feeling overwhelmed the site has workshops and articles with information to help us cope.

Much of what caused me anxiety and concern was the lack of knowledge. Knowledge is power... . how we get that knowledge we seek needs to be done in a healthy and respectful way.  We want to build bridges with the people who are trying to help.  We are all doing the best we can at any given moment in time and we can all improve.  The grey area where truth exists.

 

lbj

[mggt]

Dear jellibeans, I wish you well on this journey, I know how scary it all is, my d was in a rtc for a year.  Ithink you said one hour away so that is good.  Our minds dont stop but know that she is safe and that is where she belongs right now.  Follow your gut instincts right now .  Ask many questions if you do not understand there policys.  I will pray for you and your family , try and get some rest .  Lots of hugs sending your way

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

I just wanted to update... . there were a few rocky days there while dd and our family adjusted to the new RTC but I do feel things are settling down.

I have talked with dd every night and she seems better and less stressed each day. She is off watch and we are visiting her Sunday for Easter. I am very happy about that... . I really miss her and I just need to hug her. She says she can't really talk when we are on the phone and has lots to tell me. I guess she feels she can't talk freely. Our visit is for two hours so we have lost of time to catch up.

We have a family counseling on Monday and I am looking forward to actually doing something rather than sitting at home waiting for a 10 minute call. I don't think anyone can truly prepare themselves for their child being in RTC... . even though we know it is best there is the mother in us that wants hold and protect and comfort. It is a hard line to walk sometimes but I am taking baby steps... .

Lots of love to you all    

[vivekananda]

I hope you had a Happy Easter jellibeans  . I have been thinking of you   

You said as a mum you want to hold, protect and comfort... . we all here understand that only to well. I think this is when we begin to come to grips with the idea of 'acceptance', when we realise we are unable to do just that.


Vivek    

[jellibeans]

Vivek

I hope you have a good Easter too... .  ... . you have helped me a great deal and I appreciate your kinds words at a time when I was very low... .

I want to respond to your post... . can I not be both? Can I not both be accepting and a mom? Just not sure I understand what you are saying... . I have been spending my day watching videos on BPD on you tube... . getting ready for our visit.

I have had the chance to talk with my dd a lot over the last couple of days... . she has told me she has made two formal complaints against two of the nurses . Others also join in and filled out their complaint paperwork too... . I found this kind of funny... . my little rebel trying to revolt inside her RTC... . it is interesting looking at this from the outside now to see how she behaves and reacts in this kind of setting... . kind of like a little science project.

I am looking forward to seeing her tomorrow but I am a bit nervous too... . I hope it will go well... . she is trying very hard to convince us she is better and ready to come home... . I hope the whole visit isn't about trying to badger us on this topic. With her not being home it really does allow me to rest and find my strength again. There is something very freeing about someone else taking care of her right now. I do miss her still and I will at times get very sad but I know she needs the additional help the a RTC provides right now.

I will keep you posted... . have a great Easter... .  

[mggt]

Dear jellibeans,  Hope you had a good visit with your daughter today.  Im sure it was rough but hopefully you got a couple of hugs in.

[griz]

jellibeans:  I thought of you alot today and hoped that you were having a good visit with your daughter.  Please let us know how it went and how she and you are adjusting.

Griz

[jellibeans]

I really don't know if this is the right place for her. She called this morning crying. Our visit was okay but kind of sad. She told us there are physical fights daily amongst the girls. She is in a unit with some very aggressive girls who are always getting into fights and have to be restrained. It does sound like a crazy house. When she calls there is nothing but yelling in the background and I can't hear half of what my dd says. She has written two complaints against staff. She says they swear at them and taunt them and provoke the girls with unkind comments. IS this part of the treatment? When one girl does something wrong they are all punished... .   is that common? She also says the nurse are constantly talking poorly about them and put them all down.

The school also sounds a bit off... .   they watch movies and don't do work in some of the classes... .   we have star testing this week and she is worried she will fail.

She held it together but called me tonight. She had asked me for a book but I told her I didn't think she should have it. It's main character commits suicide at the end of the book... .   she says it doesn't matter what she reads and I tell her I don't think it is appropriate... .   she gets mad but then says she is sorry... .   she asks me if I am sorry And I say no... .   I don't think it is a good idea to read these kind of books so she hangs up on me.

I have a tour of the place tomorrow and I will try to ask more questions... .   I also will have a long list of questions for her therapist... .   I guess I would like to know why she is with such a violent group of girls. I guess I feel i really don't know what the plan is and how they hope to help my dd. I also feel there is probably a better place for her than this RTC. I just don't get a real high level of professionalism from any staff member. They are extremely unorganized and seem grossly under staffed.

I hope my meetings tomorrow can help relieve my fears. I am trying to keep an open mind and realize my dd doesn't always tell the truth but I also know that some of the things she is telling are true and that does worry me.

[vivekananda]

I am sorry that there are still these concerns with the place, jellibeans. I do hope that it gets sorted out for you soon. I know how worried and anxious you are.

when I said:

You said as a mum you want to hold, protect and comfort... .   we all here understand that only to well. I think this is when we begin to come to grips with the idea of 'acceptance', when we realise we are unable to do just that.

I think it was insensitive on reflection and I am sorry.

I think what I was trying to say was twofold: that she wasn't with you and therefore it was physically impossible for you to do that ... .   but perhaps also another thing.

I will try to explain it by using my dd as an example. I cannot hold or comfort my d because a) she won't let me, she doesn't want me to and b) if she responded affectionately to me within the context of her not actively being involved in her own treatment, I would be concerned that she would be trying to get what she wanted by giving me what I would want. What I am trying to explain (ineffectively I think) is that my desire to hold and comfort, is just that, my desire. I need to accept that for my dd it may be different. So, I need to embrace acceptance that I cannot get what I want and cannot do what I want, in that situation.

It has been a long time since my dd was a teenager. Now I can read her attempts to manipulate me and dh - perhaps one reason why there is so little contact between us. Whenever she 'lied' there was always some semblance of truth in it. I would get caught in whether something was true or not instead of thinking about what she would have thought she could achieve by distorting the truth. If I knew then what I know now, maybe my story and hers would be different, better. Oh, and she always believed her lies, sort of.

If my dd was actively involved in trying to get better, I would be less suspicious of her motivations. But now she is an adult, it is a different ball game I expect.

I know things are hard for you, but I am nonetheless a tad jealous. Your dd is young and for her change is still a very real possibility. My dd ha 32 years of thoughts and behaviours that need changing and we all know how hard it is to do that when you don't think there is anything wrong with you.

Please jellibeans this are my thoughts and reflections which I offer to you. My experience is different to yours, my situation is different to yours. If what I say doesn't jell with you, then disregard it. I want to offer you comfort and an opportunity to see things differently. I do not want to tell you what to do. (but I am a bossy boots and can't help myself sometimes.) If I say something that isn't right please call me out on it.

Can I be accepting and a mom? It depends on what we think being a mum is I suppose... .   I do know that while we have legal control over our teenagers, basically in reality we have little control over them. And being a mum is about meeting their needs best, not our own. That's why we have to be strong and sound advocates for our kids.

I hope your visit relieves your anxiety a little,

Cheers,

Vivek    

ps I feel that this is still a hard thing to read for you... .   and all I want to do is give you comfort and hugs too. But  feel the need to share these thoughts with you nonetheless.     

[jellibeans]

Vivek ... .   please don't feel sorry for giving me advise... .   I really appreciate every bit of it especially during a time when I feel I can't trust my own judgement.

I am worried about my dd... .   I think that is natural especially when she tells me very distrubing things.

We went for our meeting yesterday and it started pretty good. DD told us how much she had learned at the RTC and she was really keeping it together.She went on to tell us she thinks she should go to an out patient program and come home. The T explained we needed to work of some things and this is what the meeting was for... .   as it went on dd became more and more distressed as she realized she was not coming home with us (something I think she thought was going to happen) by the end of the meeting she was extremely angry and telling us she wasn't going to try or work on any skills while there. She got up and wanted to leave and she didn't hug us or say good bye... .   she also told me she didn't want to see me this coming weekend... .   she also didn't call us last night. So for someone who had it all worked out she certainly reverted pretty quickly in a short amount of time.

I took a tour of the place and I did feel better but I can see how this would be a very stressful place for dd. I am sure it is a struggle every minute to keep her cool and I know she is afraid to make a mistake for fear of staying longer. We are going to stay the course and see what develops of the next few weeks. I really don't think dd has taken ownership of her problems and is still casting blame on everyone else. She is still reverting to old tried and true methods to get her way which shows me she is not ready to come home at all. I just don't know how they are going to get through to her when she seems to approach this RTC as a game and she is very calculating in what she says and does. Even though she is away from us she still tries to manipulate and the pattern of how she approaches problems are deep.

So we are in a holding pattern... .   I will try to call her tonight and ask again if she wants to see us... .   if she says no then we won't go... .   at some point she has to see the decisions she is making are only hurting herself. She is young so I am going to cling to hope and be positive going forward.

Thank you Vivek ... .   you really have helped me so much... .   I really don't have the words to express my graditude... .    

[vivekananda]

   s are as good as words   the respect and gratitude is mutual. even though our situations are different, I learn much from you.

It seems you are a bit easier about the place and that is reassuring. It must be so hard to let go of your immediate sense of responsibility for your dd and trust others who do not love her as you do, to take care of her. I suppose that is one reason they are able to do that work, they do have some distance and aren't caught in the wonderful dance of the relationship that you and your dd have had all her life. As people with expertise in the area, they are able to see things and understand things we can't. They have a different context to us.

I really don't think dd has taken ownership of her problems and is still casting blame on everyone else. She is still reverting to old tried and true methods to get her way which shows me she is not ready to come home at all. I just don't know how they are going to get through to her when she seems to approach this RTC as a game and she is very calculating in what she says and does.

That is to be expected, isn't it? 1) she is adolescent 2) she has a mental illness 3) she is also normal and lives in our world. Anyone in that situation will be responding as she does. She lacks insight into who she is and is establishing her identity. You and I are lucky, we don't have BPD, we have lots of experience under our belts and have established our identity. If we were in your dd's situation, we would be struggling all the way also. If we had to change our behaviours (eg learn how to be validating people who have boundaries based on vales), then wouldn't we, don't we also struggle? My hardest thing was to accept that I needed to change. After all, I wasn't the one with the mental illness... .   of course your darling girl will find it so hard.

There is so much hope for you in this, more than cling to hope, I would embrace it.

Lots of best wishes,

Vivek