switch lawyers, or no?

[momtara]

So here's my situation. I retained a decent, local, small-time lawyer when things were getting bad with my ex a few months ago.  She handled my restraining order against him pretty well. I dropped the RO but we got a consent agreement for him to be out of the house.  It was good deal... .   His harassment of me was bad, but I wasn't sure I wanted a final order because I wanted to give our marriage one more shot.  She handled it sensitively.

In January I filed for divorce, because I realized hubby will never change.  My L has a psychology background and she is sensitive to BPD issues.  However, she only has 4 years' experience as a lawyer.  She has said some things to me that didn't make sense, and isn't always good at explaining stuff to me.   She also has seemed unconfident about certain things.  I have gotten lots of legal opinions and done lots of consultations with other lawyers while using her, so that I know if I'm on the right track.

I don't feel completely confident with her, and as we move closer to our first hearing, I'm wondering if I should get a more experienced lawyer.

I have interviewed various other lawyers, some of which are much more experienced and more expensive.  They also are more likely to know the judges and do well in a trial, although I hope my case doesn't go to trial.  That said, it's hard to really know how they'll do until I retain them.  Some of them work for big firms that are known for giving cases to junior associates, so I may not always be able to get ahold of my lawyer.  They also may not have  more time to give me than this one does.  NONE of them seemed to know what BPD was, despite their years of experience.

I am wondering if maybe I am better off sticking with my lawyer.  The thing is, it's time to give her another $3K retainer tomorrow, so I have to decide now.  I don't want to give it to her and then realize next week that I want a more experienced lawyer, and have to pay yet another retainer.

I have, in the past, always done the easy or cheap thing.  I have two children, so I don't want to do that this time.  I want to look back and say I did the best I could for my kids. 

I'm wondering, those of you who have lawyers, are your lawyers pretty attentive to your needs, and return calls promptly?  Or does it often take a few days?  Have they ever told you stuff that seemed wrong or unclear?

Maybe I just don't have enough faith in my lawyer because she's new and less expensive than others, and I should have more faith, because even the more experienced ones can mess up.  I wish I had a crystal ball.

My husband's atty is used to working with my L by now... .   which can be good or bad.  I am also wondering if a diff attorney will scare them more and be firmer at negotiating with them as a result.  That could backfire too, if they are too tough and not sensitive enough.

For a while I was deciding whether to leave my hubby or not.  Now I have a new decision - pay this retainer tomorrow, or not?  Every day it's another big decision.  It all comes down to wanting my kids to be secure.

[seeking balance]

Hi Momtara,

I switched lawyers after the first temp hearing, so I understand the importance of feeling comfortable with your attorney.

A couple questions:

What are your main issues with the case? ie - kids, property, etc... .  

Does the attorney on retainer have an aggressive strategy?  Is it aligned with Bill Eddy's Splitting?

SB

[atcrossroads]

Wow, Momtara, you are not kidding.  We are both facing the choosing a lawyer dilemma - TOMORROW! 

In the end, I am keeping my appt with the second guy and may well go with him.  I think you should bring in the bigger guns, personally.  Here is why:

1.  You like your lawyer but feel rightfully so that she lacks experience (same with my guy #1) and may be in over her head once it comes to hearings

2.  Your lack of confidence in her is making you uneasy - will you sleep well at night if you feel you didn't have a more competent attorney?

Splitting recommends getting an attorney who is ASSSERTIVE but not passive and not aggressive.  Would you describe her as a tad passive?

As I write this, I'm thinking how my own case will play out -- I'm suspecting I may go with the more experienced guy after talking to him tomorrow. 

Good luck -- this is HARD!  I hate that we have to deal with this but I'm trying to see it as a means to an end.  Ultimately, (eventually!), you and your children are going to have a better and happier life.  I am a cheapskate too, so I totally relate to wanting to save money, but maybe now is not the time.   

[momtara]

That's funny, atcrossroads.  Do you think you will want a psych eval and stuff like that?  Those things are rather expensive.

The lawyer you met with already did sounds good.  Bigger is not necessarily better.  You are lucky in that the one tomorrow was recommended by a friend, so he will work harder for you.

I actually am not sure if the more experienced lawyers I interviewed will be better, just because I may not be able to communicate with them as quickly or count on them to be as knowledgeable of my situation. 

I have set aside time tonight to eat some chocolate and think on this.  It's important to bribe myself. 

[momtara]

Seeking - My only issue is the kids.  I want as much time with them as possible.

My husband has admitted that he can't really take care of them.  But he has still filed for primary custody.  I guess this is his bargaining chip.

I think my lawyer is ok, but I just wonder if a more experienced one would be tougher.  They wouldn't be as delicate when needed, though.

I haven't really found the perfect lawyer yet.

[atcrossroads]

Yes, chocolate.  Eats lots and lots of chocolate (can't hurt   ).  

I am hoping we won't get to point of psych eval though if custody were an issue I would think that would be required as well as court mandated drug testing.  It's not as much of an issue since we don't have kids.  What about you?

You sound like you are leaning toward your original one.  I'm not sure if someone mentioned this yet, but you could certainly talk to her about your concerns and since she is familiar with BPD maybe even give her a copy of splitting.  The theme of the book is to tread lightly but firmly... .   otherwise you could easily be steamrolled by your spouse and his attorney.

How many children do you have and how old are they?  Is your husband high functioning enough that you (and they) want him in their lives or do you feel his presence could be damaging to them?  I know your mama bear will come out and you'll fight for them.  I know I am fortunate not to have a custody battle on my hands.  My husband is always furious that I took one of our two pets.  

Good luck.  I'll check tomorrow to see how your day went!

[AnotherPhoenix]

MomTara,

Hello, I am on the last leg of my divorce (I hope!). I switched lawyers and it helped. My ex-L had lots of experience with divorce and other trial experience, but just didn't seem to listen. He also didn't seem to really get custody issues. He just wasn't into the case.

When I started talking to Ls to replace my old one, I was surprised how poorly the Ls in my area understood custody. Several did understand how to deal with high-conflict divorces. But, they seemed too set in their ways, not willing to listen.

I have a new L who doesn't have much experience, but is willing to listen (sometimes I have to be assertive with her) and stands up for me.

Most important:

      Somebody you feel comfortable with and who will listen to you and work for you (not you for them!).

      You also need somebody who will be assertive in court. You do need somebody who will speak up for you!

      Somebody with trial experience is good. These lawyers need to be able to be assertive and speak up.

Next is experience, with divorce and with a high-conflict opponent or who is willing to learn about them.

There are also lots of older posts on this forum about selecting and being assertive with Ls with a lot of information that might be useful to you (and might be useful for Atcrossroads). Please hunt for them. They will help you!

So here's my situation. I retained a decent, local, small-time lawyer when things were getting bad with my ex a few months ago.  She handled my restraining order against him pretty well. I dropped the RO but we got a consent agreement for him to be out of the house.  It was good deal... .   His harassment of me was bad, but I wasn't sure I wanted a final order because I wanted to give our marriage one more shot.  She handled it sensitively.

Good.

In January I filed for divorce, because I realized hubby will never change.  My L has a psychology background and she is sensitive to BPD issues.  However, she only has 4 years' experience as a lawyer.  She has said some things to me that didn't make sense, and isn't always good at explaining stuff to me.   She also has seemed unconfident about certain things.  I have gotten lots of legal opinions and done lots of consultations with other lawyers while using her, so that I know if I'm on the right track.

I don't feel completely confident with her, and as we move closer to our first hearing, I'm wondering if I should get a more experienced lawyer.

You will need to be assertive with your lawyer and persist with your questions if you don't understand.

What is great is that it sounds like she is willing to learn about BPD issues. Perhaps you can get her to read "splitting", or at least the parts pointed out in Bill Eddy's letter to lawyers in the back of the book. Her willingness to learn and appropriately deal with BPD issues is good.

I have, in the past, always done the easy or cheap thing.  I have two children, so I don't want to do that this time.  I want to look back and say I did the best I could for my kids. 

Good for you and your kids!

I'm wondering, those of you who have lawyers, are your lawyers pretty attentive to your needs, and return calls promptly?  Or does it often take a few days?  Have they ever told you stuff that seemed wrong or unclear?

You have to train them to be attentive to your needs, and you do need to be assertive with them. Even with returning calls. As for how timely their return is, for unimportant things, 1 day may be the norm. Yes, my Ls have told me things I thought was wrong, particularly my 1st L. My new L has also said some things that surprised me, but she also was more patient with explaining things to me--even though I was persistent with not letting things go that I didn't understand.

Maybe I just don't have enough faith in my lawyer because she's new and less expensive than others, and I should have more faith, because even the more experienced ones can mess up.  I wish I had a crystal ball.

My husband's atty is used to working with my L by now... .   which can be good or bad.  I am also wondering if a diff attorney will scare them more and be firmer at negotiating with them as a result.  That could backfire too, if they are too tough and not sensitive enough.

Now is not the time to worry about being sensitive. What you want is firm. Assertive. Just like Bill Eddy writes in splitting!

Do you have that book. If you don't buy two--one for you and one for your L.

For a while I was deciding whether to leave my hubby or not.  Now I have a new decision - pay this retainer tomorrow, or not?  Every day it's another big decision.  It all comes down to wanting my kids to be secure.

Amen!


Does your L have trial experience. If she does, that is a sign in favor that she will be assertive.

What are your concerns about your lawyer? You will need to press her on these issues and get satisfactory answers. You need to be assertive in getting answers from her.

What kinds of things is your current L not sure about?

It sounds like you have things mostly under control. Good for you and your children!

AnotherPheonix 

[atcrossroads]

Thank you, AtPhoenix -- great advice!  Very helpful for me too.   

[AnotherPhoenix]

Good luck to both of you. It sounds like you both are doing the right things!

AnotherPheonix 

[momtara]

I am probably going to stay with my current lawyer for another week or two just to see what transpires.  But that means paying her the 3k retainer.  At least I suppose I can get some of it back if it's unused, but she can come up with ways to say she worked the 10 hours.  Damn.  It's a sticky situation right now because she's about to negotiate with my husband's lawyer.  If I switch, they may get all frazzled.

I am still interviewing 2 firms today, so I'll have to see how it goes.

[atcrossroads]

Wow - so tough.  I thought you got the $ back from retainer if unused? 

All you can do if you told her you're going to stick with her is educate her the best you can on what to expect/predict your husband will pull.  Do you have Splitting?  I know we've discussed it here, but I didn't catch if you had read it.  It would be great to get her a copy!

My current dilemma (heading out to appt 1 in an hour) is how do I disclose attorney #1 (who is drawing up separation papers) to attorney #2 (who I'm hoping  will be my reserve "big guns" if #1 gets in over his head).

I want transparency, but I feel awkward.

Good luck, Tara, and I think you should tell your current attorney your financial concerns and see if she'll work with you (spend more time with paralegal, etc).

Thinking of you!

[momtara]

yeah, i worry about attorneys' feelings too... .   which is silly... .   they're big boys/girls and shouldn't get offended.  you can always say that your friend recommended this person so you met with him and want to keep him as a possibility, or something... .  

i just talked to an attorney who wants to go in guns blazing, have a psych eval, etc.  seems like a very aggressive approach.  not quite sure that's what i'd want, but maybe i do?  i might feel protected with her, but also overexposed.

i can't be a wimp anymore in all this, walking on eggshells like during our marriage.  but i don't want to open new cans of worms, either.  argh!

[ForeverDad]

I've always heard, you can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

That said, it's understandable we don't want to create new problems.  It's a delicate balance betweeen setting boundaries and drawing our lines in the sand without triggering the other person's overreactions.  However, take ownership only of the first part.  The second part, where ex overreacts, that's largely out of your control.  In fact, generally there's little we do or don't do that can assure us there won't be an overreaction.  So ponder your options and go with what you feel and believe is the best for (1) you and (2) the children, if any.

[scraps66]

I have been in this situation having now gone through three attorneys, filing claims against the third, and now having met with prospective #4, #5 and #6.  Not that our situations are identical, but here's some perspective and what happened to me:

My third attorney who I worked with for over three years, did some decent things, got me 50/50 custody just through bullying negotiation and threats.  But did some things that cost me time and money.  I had the same feelings being explained here, missed communications, no response to my pointed questions, ignoring my suggestions that would have brought my case to a more swift closure.  I posted my concerns and feelings here, many suggested outright switching.  I rationalized, expensive to change and I'm approaching a settlement.  Well, one last mis-step, cost me a settlement that my ex had offered.  My L missed the requested deadline.  Me, that mistake cost me another year and $14,000 in legal fees, and an additional $8,000 in settlement monies.  I regretted not taking the advice I was given and changing. 

Bottom line - it pays to be comfortable and confident with your L.  It would help you sleep better.  Just be aware, changing is disruptive, and is expensive based on the fact that your new L will have to spend time learning your case.  As I have ritten in the past, one thing i wish I had done - and I still haven't done it - is go to the courthouse and just sit and watch cases in family court.  Watch a handful of the L's at work, and then pick one.  There is one I do remember watching that I wish I had talked to.  Smooth, confident and concise. 

Just be careful if you do switch that the new L doesn't see your case with $$$$ signs.  That's, in retrsospect, what I think happned to me.