How to live with a Cheater?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hey,

There's a real possibility that my cheating wife will move back into the house following my discovery of her infidelity; any tips?  Can you agree set acceptable behaviours? What's the forfeit? - how do you deal with her inviting guests/knowingly leaving the kids to go to her new fella etc... .  

She has demonstrated not wanting to be here nor a parent but now I don't want her she is holding the kids away and legally, adultery and seemingly emotional battery is not really taken into account for exclusion from the home... .   regardless of the impact

Any advice on how to deal with this as I find the concept so difficult at the moment?  Can I make life awkward by introducing consistency?

Don't want to leave the home from a legal perspective and also want to be strong for the kids-  is this even compatible?

Regards,

Whichwayisup

[Whichwayisup]

Hey,

There's a real possibility that my cheating wife will move back into the house following my discovery of her infidelity; any tips?  Can you agree set acceptable behaviours? What's the forfeit? - how do you deal with her inviting guests/knowingly leaving the kids to go to her new fella etc... .  

She has demonstrated not wanting to be here nor a parent but now I don't want her she is holding the kids away and legally, adultery and seemingly emotional battery is not really taken into account for exclusion from the home... .   regardless of the impact

Any advice on how to deal with this as I find the concept so difficult at the moment?  Can I make life awkward by introducing consistency?

Don't want to leave the home from a legal perspective and also want to be strong for the kids-  is this even compatible?

Regards,

Whichwayisup

[Matt]

How old are the kids?

What is your current living arrangement?

Is there a court order in place regarding custody?

[Whichwayisup]

Hi,

Kids d3, d10, s15.  She has stayed away at her parents since Monday when I found the evidence but she has also kept the kids away. I met with them for an hour only yesterday.  I am due to see solicitor but reading the stories on here seems mothers tend to be favoured and she should have legal rights to return home... .   It worries me that she can come back and abuse/ accuse me of anything(yes she can accuse even if not here)... .  

She has lied on the kids lives ands been founds out... .   She is capable of anything frankly and I'm worried.

Whichwayisup

[Matt]

Talking to an attorney is the best thing to do.

Don't assume that moms always win.  Find out how things work where you live, and what your options are.

Get temporary orders in place as soon as possible.  You can file a motion for temporary orders - maybe ask for the kids to live with you at the home and your wife to live elsewhere.

The court probably won't care about the cheating, but staying in the home is probably good.  Ask for at least half the time with the kids - maybe more if you can explain good reasons why they are better off with you.

[marbleloser]

Keep a recorder on you at all times and running when she is in the home. This has the potential for false abuse charges.Do not set it to voice activate,but on continuous record.Find a room where you can be alone,with a lock if possible.

If she moves back in and files abuse charges,you'll be arrested,she'll get exclusive use of the home,and you'll be paying for it.Make sure you always cover yourself.

[Whichwayisup]

Thanks Matt & Marbleloser,

My solicitor has advised that sa I'm the only name on the title deeds that I can deny her access... .   she can apply for a court injunction to gain access which will cost around £1200, not does it prevent her from trying to access when the kids are returning - but I can live with that.  I can contest the injunction but if she's back in she can of course make claims- my big concern.

He wants me to try and sort it out amicably in the first instance so I'm building up to calling her in an hour or so... .   and I have to demand that thee kids are returned to me for a few days at least - the plan after that will be for me to work around her shifts or agree that they can stop at their grandparents with her on the weekends as she potentially has no home big enough for them all - not of may making of course.

I have also just realised that the credit card I didn't know she had has a credit limit of £5k more than she has used - so she has access to funds... .  

Feel like it's a little victory as I feared having to let her back in today... .   may be a delay but I can live with that... .     i suspect that she wont agree and we will have to go to mediation... .  

Told solicitor about behaviour and suspected disorders and he said to steer clear as it will just delay and ramp up costs for medical assessment... .   he was very rational.

Whichwayisup

[Matt]

Cancel the credit card and change the locks.

When you talk to her, make sure you have notes in front of you - exactly what you will say.

Be very clear as to what you are offering, and take notes of what she says.  Record if it's legal.

Don't mention mental illness to your wife, but if you go through a legal battle you will want to have both parents given objective tests, like the MMPI-2.  It only costs $500 each and will add important information.  If her results include serious disorders, you will be able to show that the kids are at high risk if they are with her too much.

What is your objective right now - to fix the marriage?  Or to get a quick, peaceful, sensible solution?  Or to have at least 50% custody?  Or... .   ?

[Whichwayisup]

No, the credit card is in her name - but I didn't even know she had one - I have already racked up enough on my credit cards on our behalf, still paying off wedding anf holidays etc. - I don't like the idea of changing the locks as it will be viewed by the kids as me being the "bad" one-  regardless my S15 will have a key even if I get new locks so she could get a copy from him if she wanted (her mum has a spare if they ever needed access - so I keep my keys in the door and locked currently... .  

My wife has told me in the past she knows she has problems and fears being sectioned and stigmatised at work (nurse) but she can't progress past that - and actually admitting that to me seems to have been the end of the marriage in her mind- she sought a way out since this... .   I'm gonna avoid getting into the blame game and reply simply - "that is not of my making... .   nor my responsibility"

My objective now is to

A) Get the kids back to their home and let them do normal things (I looked after them most of the time anyway)

B) Let her have 50% custody and I will provide her share of equity in a home refinance approx £35K

C) Divorce her for adultery

I suspect she will want the house so I'm gonna propose 50/50 parenting as the first point and see how we go from there... .   just need to try hard to stay calm... .  

[Matt]

Any spending she does after you file for divorce is probably on her, not you.  Before that, it's marital debt.

(I'm not a lawyer, by the way, and nobody here can give you legal advice - just what we have learned in our own situations.  And I say "lawyer" not "solicitor" so we're probably in different countries, but the US system came from the English one, so most things are similar.)

If you are living in the home, and you file with the court, then where I live she has no right to come there without your permission.

Your objectives seem very sensible and practical to me.  Can you file right away, asking for temporary orders like that?

One more comment:  Your post is called "How to live with a cheater".  But I think you should make sure you don't have to live with her anymore - not even one night.  The reason is that when people who have given up on the marriage are in the same home, the stress gets very high - on everyone, including the kids.  Instead of going from one OK home to another, they live all the time in a home that is super-high-stress.

This can lead to big problems, especially if one of the parents has a disorder which makes it hard for her to manage stress.  She is likely to act out, maybe violently, or maybe by making false accusations.  Things can go from bad to much, much worse, very quickly.

Right now is the time to take a different path.  Talk to your solicitor about how to make sure you are never alone together again (I mean you and your wife, not you and your solicitor!).

[Whichwayisup]

Yeah Matt, she prob. doesn't know I know about the card (I found it opened and left on a pile of her things)... .   still so I will let any claims she makes of not being able to afford fall on my deaf ears... .   not my concern... .  

I'm advised to try and reach an amicable solution firstly, then if no agreement we will have to file for mediation and follow the process from there, it all depends on whether she contests the proposals or not - things can be done cheaply and effectively or she can kick up a fuss and cause problems, am preparing myself for the latter, just thinking even if I request to see the kids she could claim they don't want to return home... .  

Glad I seem sensible to you, that comment means a lot to me: she went ballistic on her recent birthday as I had written my name rather than "Hubby", she claimed I have NEVER written my name in any other card... .   going through some things I have just found a valentine card from 2010 which says my name... .   it's no wonder I'm thinking I'm crackers -was crackers for believing her... .   I'm just concerned if she if filing an order for access to the home, but nothing I can do about that yet... .  

[Matt]

"... .   there is nothing I can do about that yet" - I think there probably is something you can do about it.

There are several things you might discuss with your solicitor.  Don't ask her, "Should I do something?".  Ask her, "Which is the best action to take?"  Be active not passive.

One option is to file for divorce, asking for temporary orders - you and the kids in the house.  Maybe ask for more than 50/50 if you think that would be best for the kids (though you may think you won't get it).  Make it clear that you are the primary caretaker.

A second option is to file for a legal separation and the same terms - temporary orders.  Where I live, this isn't a good option, but maybe it would give you a "resting place" for a settlement.

Third is to file for a temporary restraining order or "order of protection".  You don't need to accuse her of anything, just say that you believe there is risk to yourself and the kids if she is in the home, and you want her to stay somewhere else til things are sorted out.

Maybe there are other options - ask your solicitor.  But if you believe it will be best to live separately while working out a settlement, ask for that, right away, and you'll probably get it.

[Whichwayisup]

Thank Matt, good points and you are right about being assertive.

I was thinking in terms of trying to gauge what she will compromise on and what she will dig her heels in for.  I will be contacting the solicitor in the morning to request mediation if she doesn't agree so will highlight the issues, my understanding was that if an injunction is served I can contest and it could even go against her - in the meantime the kids aren't here.  Will be calling her in just over half an hour so will see how she responds as to which actions I need to take.

[Matt]

One big issue here is alienation, since the kids aren't with you, and you said you're concerned they may think you're the bad guy.

(There is a great book on this subject - ":)ivorce Poison".  Might be good to read as soon as you can.)

It's important to nip it in the bud, by having at least half the time with the kids right from the start.  Make that a focus - any solution that doesn't involve the court must include at least half the time with the kids, starting right now - this week.  Otherwise you file for primary custody - every other weekend with mom.

[Whichwayisup]

You're right, my interim suggestion will be that I have them Mon-Fri and she can have them stay with her folks and her at the weekend to allow her to sort herself out or I can work around her non standard shifts with advance notice- just thinking how to approach and I will set out a short statement then ask if she is in agreement... .  

Can we agree not to raise our voices?

Do you agree by not finding an amicable solution will be expensive to us both and cause unnecessary stress to all concerned?

Do you agree the kids need normal experiences?

Do you agree with a 50/50 parenting split?

Do you agree to stay away from the house?

Do you agree not to let the kids meet the new person?

etc

Ask also if there's anything she wants to suggest additionally... .  

then for any that we don't agree on I can message her after and ask her if there are any further thoughts to let me know by 10am tomorrow? Otherwise we will have to seek mediation (giving her time to absorb my suggestions?)

Whichwayisup

[marbleloser]

Funny thing with debt.Check your state laws. In some cases,you won't even be on the hook for "marital debt" if you didn't "enjoy the privilages" of that debt.

Say she went and bought a couch or chair on credit,but she used it where she's living now.You didn't ever use the couch or chair,so it's not really "marital debt".

[Whichwayisup]

Nah, it was my own stupid fault for agreeing to fund our trips to Ireland to visit family on a regular basis... .   have spoken with her and she agreed to most things with the exception of:

50/50 parenting split for S15 (she says he's old enough to decide)

Kids returning to house tonight or tomorrow, (says its up to them)

Me having Kids Mon-Fri and her having them at weekends in interim (doesn't agree as it's not 50/50 and doesn't suit her shifts - my next question)

Agree to stay away from marital home (not allowed legally (She says))

She agreed to let me have the details for the two household bills she actually pays as she's not allowed back (contradicting her earlier statement)

She requested the kids birth certificates for housing application

I advised it's not yet been determined what is happening with the house.

Gave her the written up agreed points in email, said to contact me immediately if inaccurate and to respond to me by 10am if any further thoughts as mediation will need to be applied for for the parts not agreeable. - she requested more time about the request for more time ?

Little bit of progress but still no kids back, will press the issue tomorrow if nothing tonight.

[Matt]

Make sure you are making specific, clear proposals, in writing, and giving the reason for each - reasons that mention the kids:

1.  To make sure the kids can continue their weekday activities - school etc. - as normal, the kids and I will stay in the family home from 18:00 Sunday through 18:00 Friday, and I will make sure they get to school and other activities on time, homework done, etc.

2.  To make sure the kids have regular time with both parents, they will be with their mom from 18:00 Friday through 18:00 Sunday.

3.  To make sure the kids are not under too much stress, both parents will not talk about legal issues with the kids, or say anything negative about the other parent.

Etc.

Make everything a specific proposal, and make sure it's in writing - by e-mail or another way that will leave a trail.

Later, you can show that you tried to come to a solution that is best for the kids.

[Whichwayisup]

That's great suggestions Matt,

She is requesting more time to consider the proposals and if there's anything to add, which I'm fine with cos it opens the communication.

On a real positive, the kids are coming back tomorrow to stay overnight 'til Sat evening and I have told her I'm free from Sunday night for the next 7 days and want to see them more next week to compensate for the time they have been kept away from me next week - I need to be more assertive but reliant on her work shifts too. 

Given that this morning I thought she would have to move back into the house, I'm feeling really relived and have felt a genuine smile for the first time all week!

Sure there's gonna be lots more to do but i'm gonna chill and watch TV and just chill out

[ForeverDad]

No, the credit card is in her name - but I didn't even know she had one

Is it just the card in her name (card holder) or the account is also in her name (account holder)?  There is a difference.  If it is her card but on your account, you can cancel it.  (Of course, if that's the case then get lawyer's advice first.  Get lawyer's advice on all major actions.)  Even if she's the account holder, could she somehow have forged your name on the application so you're in some way financially obligated above and beyond what the court might rule, perhaps as a co-signer?

[Matt]

She is requesting more time to consider the proposals and if there's anything to add, which I'm fine with cos it opens the communication.

One thing that can help is to give your proposal a date:  "This proposal is good through Friday April 10."  Then if that date passes and she hasn't responded, you can feel free to take the next steps.

If she asks you to extend the date a little as a courtesy, that might be fine - your call - but no open-ended.

[Whichwayisup]

Yeah, the kids are off school next week so there's a bit of time to set a deadline of Tuesday or so.  I have the kids with me today although only the youngest appears to want to stay over... .   I'm hearing concerning things from the eldest two about living at their grandparents, I have said, "you are visiting your grandparents... .   "

I have done a stupid thing and handed over the kids birth certificates as she said she need them for a housing application, not sure I believe this now... .  

The card was in her name only along with the account.

Have looked at refinancing and I don't think I can afford to stay in this house for the sake of the kids in addition to the divorce costs and consolidation of my credit cards as well as her share of the equity buyout... .   Feeling bewildered at the moment... .