Is dd heading to another mess... Hate it when the gkids are hearing all of

[somuchlove]

I also get so frustrated because I know her little ones are hearing all of this.  I want to swoop them away.  If i tell her I don't like it she will explode.  I feel so bad because I think I should be trying to protect them from all of this.  I am so busy trying to validate, etc all this stuff for HER     And I think I should be doing for them... .     So much confusion with this... .  

It is so hard knowing that sometimes when my BPD dd is ranting etc that my little ones are hearing all of this.  A couple times I have validated her being upset but then said, why don't we talk later when the kids are in bed or not there.  She will say things like, now you are telling my I am a horrible mom.  I might as well be dead, need to just kill myself,etc. 

Dd is on a rage again.  I know bf had done some pretty bad things but don't know how  he stands it.  She has been crying on the phone saying I didn't do anything wrong, I don't deserve this,  he yelled horrible things at me on the phone while he was with all the guys at work.  She is so confused.  I worry that she is going to do something really stupid and cause a problem with her keeping the kids.  I don't know how to tell her to step back. Don't get herself into problems she had about 5 years ago.  I know I can't tell her but need to try and listen and help her sort.

Just so hard when there are little ones involved.  And we are so far away. 

I don't know how blunt to be with her.  She has got to get a handle on this.  She is going to do something crazy and ... .      

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Have you thought about taking custody of the kids? If you feel they are in danger maybe that is something you should proceed with.

Ultimately she is an adult and living her life the way she wants... .   it is shame she is struggling so much. So much stress and worry for you.

I want to send you a hug and love... .      

[somuchlove]

Thanks for the hugs.  Am needing some for sure.  I would love to take custody of the kids.  The older two's dad would not allow that.  We went through horrible times about 5 yrs. ago with him.  He has issues of his own but seems to be ok.  I really struggle with I guess protecting my dd from falling apart and keeping her kids and yet I do worry that what she is going through again is really really tough on them.  If I point those things out to her,( i know I have to handle it in the right way) would totally set her over the edge  ... .   Am I being so protective of her to allow my gkids to go through these tough dyregulated times with her?   It is just so scary.   I have always been scared as she loves her kids, really does a wonderful job with them most of the time,  they love her so much and seem to be doing ok.  They spend at least 6 weeks with us in the summers.  But I feel that I put them first when it comes to upsetting my dd and her ranting as to not upset her.  It is so hard when I know they are hearing her.  I also worry that they are learning this is the way things are done. 

[griz]

I am sorry SML, I don't remember how old your grandkids are.  Are they old enough that you can talk with them and give them some guidance for when you DD is having a tough time.  You are truly amazing in that you want to help your DD but also realize that her children need help also.  Such a difficult balancing act for sure.  When you DD is raging does it help take her down a notch when you validate her feelings?  It sounds as if she loves her kids very much.  Is there a way for you to contact anyone at their school, maybe a social worker and confidentially let them know what is going on? Maybe let them know that your daughter is having a tough time and although she is a great mom you are concerned about your gk?

Remember that kids are very resiliant.  I am sorry that this is so stressful for you and although I don't have any gk's I can empathize with how you must be feeling.

Sending you lots of love today and positive energy   

[somuchlove]

Thanks griz.  My gkids are 11-10 and 15 months.  I am always glad to hear the words that children are pretty resilant.  I sure hope so. HOwever, I do see it in our kids that I teach. 

I am feeling this morning that I need to have one of those talks with my dd that she needs to get in control of her emtions before things esculate into bad things.  I am scared because I hope that I can do the validating, and all the other stuff and not let her know that her feelings aren't real.  As normal, I am trying to fix things, tell her what to do, etc etc... .   oh how quick we go back to old habits, well knowing that it doesn't work. 

When do we just say,  Slow down, take time to think about what is going on,  and still let them know that there feelings are so real but perhaps they need to... .     boy this is so hard.

[vivekananda]

It would be so frustrating not to be able to swoop in and fix it all up, frustrating to feel powerless to stop the raging emotions of your dd. Of course you worry about your gkids.

It is hard to see those most vulnerable suffer. Does you dd need a circuit breaker of some sort? Can you help her get some sort of time out - or is this just part of her whole process of day to day life? Is there anyone on hand she can call on?

Of course with pwBPD, what is cause for devastating anger and resentment can be totally different from day to day. Will this episode pass in that way?

My mum was BPD (dad alcoholic), I grew up with nasty anger in my house daily. Every morning was hell, yelling etc. I knew it wasn't normal but I could avoid most of it and learnt to navigate my way through. I didn't have a grandma like you. If I had someone like you who I knew would be there for me and who loved me and who saw the ugliness of my home - I would have felt loved and reassured that ultimately there was someone who knew and if push came to shove, could look after me. Just being there is perhaps enough for your gks. They know they have you.

By validating your dd, you are creating a better situation for you gks. Keeping the anxiety levels down as much as possible. You are doing your job.

Take care of yourself, avoid being judgemental of your dd, that doesn't get results at all. You know all that stuff, just reminding you 

Cheers,

Vivek    

[somuchlove]

Yep  Vivek ,  I know... .     but thanks for reminding me.  Oh, It breaks my heart thinking of what you must have gone through as a child and how strong you must be to have weathered it and now helping so many of us here.  There are others I know that have had to deal with this their whole life.  Even though I had thought I had a tough dad I never doubted the love and strenght of my parents.  They life was tough I realized after I grew up but they worked hard and always stood strong for us kids.  I am thankful for that each day.  I also am so thankful that I married a man that is wonderful and we have been able to provide a strong family unit.  However, I realize that sometimes no matter what you do you can't controll what happens. 

I wish I could give my dd something that would just let her step back when she is going through these very angry totally off the wall stuff.  Time out as you guys said.  I will have to give some thoughts.  However, just listening and validating and letting her know we love her and she is not alone will really help.  I just have to remember that. 

[vivekananda]

thanks for your support somuchbest wishes, but no need to 'feel sorry for me' - if you know what I mean. I am lucky that I have been able to 'process' my childhood hurts - and did so quite a few years ago. My family of 5 sibs, 15 nieces and nephews, 15+ great nieces and nephews etc are today totally split. And while that took some grieving over, that is ok now too. BPD mum and BPD sis = highly dysfunctional family. So many affected. But for me and dh, we are fine. I came to 'final acceptance' of my family after much drama and hurt around my mum's need for aged care which provided the momentum for the final split in the family. When I discovered my dd had BPD and I learnt about it, it has served to put all that stuff with me, my family and dh's family also, into perspective.

I don't think I am strong, but I do think I have a good life. Of course, something can easily come along and upset my applecart and I may struggle for a while, but I think now I know what I need to do to be happy. It has been the learning that has been available for me here that has made this possible. That and the support I have found here and I know is here for me when my applecart gets tossed about.

We all just have to practice our skills and use our tools and continue to apply ourselves to understanding and learning. That's our way to manage the situation we find ourselves in... .   and continue to stay in touch with each other 

cheers,

Vivek    

[lbjnltx]

Hello somuchlove,

As I read through this thread I noticed many parallels regarding validation in the different relationship dynamics.

Do you see them?

Griz validates you, you feel some relief from your own pain.

Vivek  validates your grandchildren's experience when she talks about her childhood (she turned out better than ok

You validate Vivek 's childhood experience.

When we are validated it can relieve the pressure valve and leave a more calm emotional space for our brains to function more reasonably... .   at least for a time.

The key to successful validation is to focus on the validation and not fixing things... . not offering suggestions.  First the calm emotional space must exist that validation can create... .   then the person who needs the validation can come up with their own solutions or ask us for suggestions and they can actually hear us.  IF they ask, then we can help guide them towards their own solutions through validating questions.

[mikmik]

I think LBJ makes an insightful point about validation.  However, it, for me, is easier to validate all of these wonderful women (men too) on the board, who are in pain, but come to each of us not attacking or raging or making it personal.  They come to us in their pain, in their uniquely vulnerable state, that is so different from the vulnerable state of someone screaming at us at the top of their lungs in a threatening way.

I guess the lesson in validation remains true.  It is just how a person's way of presenting the need for validation opens our hearts and allows the tenderness to flow and how the person needing it will receive it.  They way the pain is presented does affect my ability to validate in the moment.  How can it not?

But clearly, we all benefit from our pain and daily lives being validated and appreciated.  Good touchstone for going forward in BPDland.

mik

[somuchlove]

Oh you guys are so right on.  Validation... .     I find that my dd doesn't talk a whole lot to me sometimes.  When she does it is usually when things are going bad and she is totally falling apart.  I need to learn that when she gives me that line into her thoughts, usually BECAUSE I have validated her, I don't talk more that I should.  I need to be reminded that when they are in that state, even though they sound like they want to know they are not able to listen to what we are saying if it is anything but validating their feelings.   Anything else said, even with the best intentions is take the wrong way. 

I find it hard to call her when I think things are ok and visit with her about stuff as I don't want to start her on another war path. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

  I am scared because I hope that I can do the validating, and all the other stuff and not let her know that her feelings aren't real. 

This is a hard one to shift my thinking around. Perhaps your D's feelings are real -  her response to them may not be based on what we think of as rational thinking or actions. Sometimes I cannot get myself into a personal space to be validating of Dd's feelings, or think of the validating phrases or questions. The support I get here is endlessly valuable in giving me validation, as pointed out by others. Then I can get into a place where I can be present for my D.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

I think you got it qcr. The feelings are real, it's just their perspective on reality is not the same as ours.

My dd's view of the world is so screwed when it comes to anything that touches her emotions - eg her relationship with dh and me, that her perspective is more likely to be opposite to the reality I and the rest of the world see.

I have no trouble validating her emotions (as long as I am listening carefully to understand how she feels) but I do not agree with her version of the world. When I validate, versions of the world are irrelevant.

As I figure it she needs to learn to meet her own emotional needs and by naming and validating the emotion, I can help her be in touch with her feelings. As for her reality, there's nothing I can do to fix that, that's BPD. If only I could... .  

cheers,

Vivek